Maximum Swing Speed (Assassin Armor Useless?)

[Playhardgopro]

What setup would give maximum swing speed in UO? A suit incorporating a full Assassin Armour set or a high-stamina suit?

I've ignored the effects of potions. I've used an Ornate Axe (tick speed 14) for my workings.

I used this guide to swing speed: http://www.uoguide.com/Swing_Speed.

Assassin Armor suit (assumes 50 SSI; 20 on the AR and 30 on the axe).

125 base dex.

The AA gives you +12 dex (137). Find 13 on jewels/crimmy to get your maximum of 150.

AA gives plus 8 stamina giving you 158. Stamina, for swing speed, works in intervals of 30. So you need 22 to get to 180. You have only the gorget and helmet to get this (correct me if I am wrong, please). So you can't reach 180. So 150 is all that counts.

Maximum swing speed with AA and 150 stamina, using the formula on UO Guide, is 1.5 seconds.

Stamina Suit (assumes 30 SSI).

150 stamina with 30 SSI gives 1.73 seconds.

180 gives 1.53

210 gives 1.34

240 gives 1.15

So having 180 stamina is roughly equivalent to having full Assassin Armour with +8 stamina helm and gorget (which leaves little to no room for other mods).

As I see it, you can get 180 stamina by having ring and bracelet with 8 dex each, plus factions crimmy and 125 base dex for 150. And 4 armour pieces with 8 stamina each gives 182 stamina. Leaves you two armour slots free for more powerful artefacts and/or resists.

So Assassin Armour is a waste of money if you use it solely for swing speed.

Let me know if you think/know I have it wrong (It's more than likely).

 

[silent]

Assassin Armor suit (assumes 60 SSI; 20 on the AR and 30 on the axe).

this equals 50 not 60.


also SSI does not drop like stamina does. SSI > Stam

 

[Playhardgopro]

Sorry, yes, typo. Calculations were done with 50, not 60.

How easy is it to keep stamina at maximum with a high stamina leech weapon, though?

 

[Connor_Graham]

also SSI does not drop like stamina does. SSI > Stam

This is why the Assassin suit is so much different than normal armor types, and why it so highly desired.

 

[Connor_Graham]

After reading this post again, I wanted to touch on a few points that are misconceived at best.

AA gives plus 8 stamina giving you 158. Stamina, for swing speed, works in intervals of 30. So you need 22 to get to 180. You have only the gorget and helmet to get this (correct me if I am wrong, please). So you can't reach 180. So 150 is all that counts.

150 Stam is not all that counts. A single point of damage drops your swing speed by a full 'tick', or .25 seconds. Therefore, any and all stamina increase you can get above 150 serves to keep your swing speed at it's highest.

So having 180 stamina is roughly equivalent to having full Assassin Armour with +8 stamina helm and gorget (which leaves little to no room for other mods).

Exactly how long have you been playing? Having Stam Inc 8 on a head or gorget piece in no way means there is "little to no room for other mods". The gorget I use on my Sampire (who also uses the Assassin set) not only has Stam Inc, but also Mana Regen 2 and LMC 8 along with 2 resists that are over 20 and 2 that are in the low to mid teens. I use the Mace & Shield glasses for additional stats along with the HLD. I think you need to acquaint yourself with the high end armor, because it's obvious that you're not familiar with it at all.

So Assassin Armour is a waste of money if you use it solely for swing speed.

Except for the fact that the SSI on the suit can't be lowered by taking damage. You will always have an extra 20 SSI regardless of how much damage you take, which can't be said for stamina. Then there's the fact that (for example) I have 164 Stam plus I have the 20 SSI, which would equate to 224 Stamina when determining swing speed. Add Divine Fury to that and it puts me at the equivalent of 254 Stamina, which is unachievable by any combination of gear you could possibly come up with. It takes just about as many hp's I have in damage to drop my Twinkling Scimitar's swing speed just a single tick. This is solely due to the fact that I use the Assassin's set. Hardly a waste of money.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

This is why the Assassin suit is so much different than normal armor types, and why it so highly desired.

You know I had no idea the Assassin Armor was so sought-after? I don't think I've ever personally seen someone using it, so I (foolishly it seems) assumed it was worthless.

-Galen's player

 

[Storm]

You know I had no idea the Assassin Armor was so sought-after? I don't think I've ever personally seen someone using it, so I (foolishly it seems) assumed it was worthless.

-Galen's player

not worthless far from it 2 of the pieces are sold for 20+ mill each the other 2 you can get for 30k to 500k each each piece carries 5ssi so the 2 cheap ones will give you 10ssi but no other mods and poor resist so its a trade off unless you can afford and find the main 2 pieces

 

[kantoska]

Connor, what template do you use the assassin set for? Because with such poor resists, I'd think itd be extremely difficult to get all the resists up enough to tank something, along with keeping decent mods on the jewels/neck/head.

 

[Playhardgopro]

After reading this post again, I wanted to touch on a few points that are misconceived at best.

150 Stam is not all that counts. A single point of damage drops your swing speed by a full 'tick', or .25 seconds. Therefore, any and all stamina increase you can get above 150 serves to keep your swing speed at it's highest.

Exactly how long have you been playing? Having Stam Inc 8 on a head or gorget piece in no way means there is "little to no room for other mods". The gorget I use on my Sampire (who also uses the Assassin set) not only has Stam Inc, but also Mana Regen 2 and LMC 8 along with 2 resists that are over 20 and 2 that are in the low to mid teens. I use the Mace & Shield glasses for additional stats along with the HLD. I think you need to acquaint yourself with the high end armor, because it's obvious that you're not familiar with it at all.

Except for the fact that the SSI on the suit can't be lowered by taking damage. You will always have an extra 20 SSI regardless of how much damage you take, which can't be said for stamina. Then there's the fact that (for example) I have 164 Stam plus I have the 20 SSI, which would equate to 224 Stamina when determining swing speed. Add Divine Fury to that and it puts me at the equivalent of 254 Stamina, which is unachievable by any combination of gear you could possibly come up with. It takes just about as many hp's I have in damage to drop my Twinkling Scimitar's swing speed just a single tick. This is solely due to the fact that I use the Assassin's set. Hardly a waste of money.

I did say I could easily have it wrong and I invited people to explain if I did. You're being pretty rude though. I guess that is because you spent the money on the Assassin Armour.

'A single point of damage drops your swing speed by a full 'tick', or .25 seconds'

Does it? Surely only any damage taking you below the next 30 stamina threshold drops your swing speed? That is, unless there are rules other than the swing speed formula on the UOGuide (which it claims is from FoF).

'Exactly how long have you been playing?'

I've been playing, on and off, since just after Trammel was released. This is not important.

'Having Stam Inc 8 on a head or gorget piece in no way means there is "little to no room for other mods".'

What I said was correct. If you use Assassin Armour and then take a helm and gorget with stamina increase (although, actually, is there a helm with stamina increase?) then you are denied worthwhile mods such as DCI, DI, HCI. You can have lmc, which is useful, but the MR is not that important (almost insignificant in the scheme of things).

'I have 164 Stam'

You don't have 164 stamina. Not with the Assassin Set and HLD glasses.

What is the exact effect of Divine Fury? Does the paperdoll show the effect on stamina or dex?

I've got to say that although Assassin Armour sounds good, I think my argument stands. Assuming I can keep my stamina full (a big assumption, perhaps), then my suit is as fast as yours, with better mods and without spending the money on the Assassin set.

As far as keeping stamina full (above 180) I was thinking (just an idea - not a fact) that I could go 2/4 and rely on spamming Divine Fury, with 70 DCI to compensate the negative.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I did say I could easily have it wrong and I invited people to explain if I did. You're being pretty rude though. I guess that is because you spent the money on the Assassin Armour.

Wrong yet again. I got 2 legs as drops and traded 1 for gloves. If you don't want your arguments cut apart, then you should stop making such big assumptions. I'm not being rude (believe me, you'd know it if I was), I'm just explaining how you're wrong. It's not my fault you don't understand, and thus don't believe.

Does it? Surely only any damage taking you below the next 30 stamina threshold drops your swing speed? That is, unless there are rules other than the swing speed formula on the UOGuide (which it claims is from FoF).

If you have 150 stamina and take even a single point of damage you will drop a full tick on your swing speed. With an Assassin suit, it takes 61 points of damage to drop to that same point. I don't know how much more plainly I can put this.

I've been playing, on and off, since just after Trammel was released. This is not important.

Actually yes, it is. You're making a lot of assumptions, not to mention knocking things, that you know little to nothing about. I'm guessing that you just returned to the game, and you're already jumping to conclusions about high end gear that you've never used yourself.

What I said was correct. If you use Assassin Armour and then take a helm and gorget with stamina increase (although, actually, is there a helm with stamina increase?) then you are denied worthwhile mods such as DCI, DI, HCI. You can have lmc, which is useful, but the MR is not that important (almost insignificant in the scheme of things).

Then how is it that I have 31 DCI and 31 HCI? DCI can actually be much, much higher (by 21 points), depending on which weapon I'm using.

Oh, and let me know how important MR is when you're solo'ing Travesty or working on getting the keys from Irk and they're spamming mana drain spells.

You don't have 164 stamina. Not with the Assassin Set and HLD glasses.

Really now? Maybe it's just me, but it sure looks to me like I do.

Maybe you should go back and rethink a few things, huh?

What is the exact effect of Divine Fury? Does the paperdoll show the effect on stamina or dex?

No, it doesn't.

I've got to say that although Assassin Armour sounds good, I think my argument stands. Assuming I can keep my stamina full (a big assumption, perhaps), then my suit is as fast as yours, with better mods and without spending the money on the Assassin set.

I didn't spend a dime on my set, and don't have to make a big assumption to know that it takes a hell of a lot more damage to drop my swing speed than it will yours. Not to mention that 150 Stam + 20 SSI > 150 Stam only. It's simple math.

As far as keeping stamina full (above 180) I was thinking (just an idea - not a fact) that I could go 2/4 and rely on spamming Divine Fury, with 70 DCI to compensate the negative.

Yeah, see how well that works out when you're out of mana, and yeah, that will happen, especially when you're getting hit for 30-40 damage consistently.

 

[Connor_Graham]

You know I had no idea the Assassin Armor was so sought-after? I don't think I've ever personally seen someone using it, so I (foolishly it seems) assumed it was worthless.

-Galen's player

The pieces are extremely rare drops. I got lucky and got 2 legs from the Shadowlords when they were around. I had a ton of blackrock, so I got top 3 damager on over 200 of them. I traded one of the legs for the gloves so ended up getting the set for free, but I was more than prepared to spend 25 mil for the piece I needed. I even put a post in the trade forum looking for them.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Connor, what template do you use the assassin set for? Because with such poor resists, I'd think itd be extremely difficult to get all the resists up enough to tank something, along with keeping decent mods on the jewels/neck/head.

It takes some very selective armor and jewel combinations. I use this suit on my Sampire (which makes it even tougher), but currently have 70/70/70/70/69 for my resists. Cold and Fire are the weak points, while I have more physical resist than I know what to do with, so I just keep Protection cast so I don't have to worry about any spells being disrupted. This also means I can cast Curse Wep on the fly with no interruptions as I also have a pair of arcane boots always equipped. Even at the 7 or so seconds that it lasts without SS that gives me a couple of really massive heals and has saved my butt more than once.

 

[Playhardgopro]

Connor, you clearly know a lot about the game - more than me I'm sure. But you are rude (objective - it's just a matter of degree) and so:

'With an Assassin suit, it takes 61 points of damage to drop to that same point.'

If you have 164 stamina and you take damage and go to 149 stamina, you're speed will drop a tick. 'Do the math', yo.

'I'm guessing that you just returned to the game, and you're already jumping to conclusions about high end gear that you've never used yourself'.

Negative. I'm actually not even playing at the moment but I've played at various times: post Trammel; post SE; and post ML.

'Then how is it that I have 31 DCI and 31 HCI'

Jewels? Talisman? Imagination? Whatever. You're still choosing a Sampire with high SSI, instead of 45 HCI and DCI, 40 LMC and 100 DI. So you are still making a sacrifice, as I suggested.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Connor, you clearly know a lot about the game - more than me I'm sure. But you are rude (objective - it's just a matter of degree) and so:

I'm actually being quite mild in this thread. Ask around, I'm sure others would say the same, not that it matters or that I care one way or the other.

'With an Assassin suit, it takes 61 points of damage to drop to that same point.'

If you have 164 stamina and you take damage and go to 149 stamina, you're speed will drop a tick. 'Do the math', yo.

Not when compared to the 150 stamina of yours. My swing speed will still be higher at any equal level of stamina. If you're at 149 stamina and I'm at 149 stamina, my swing speed will ALWAYS be higher than yours. You're the one that needs to go back and do the math "yo". (side note not directed at anyone in particular, ebonics make people sound ignorant, whether they are or not. "Yo" is not a real word unless another "yo" is connected to it by a hyphen)

Negative. I'm actually not even playing at the moment but I've played at various times: post Trammel; post SE; and post ML.

Thanks for proving my point.

Jewels? Talisman? Imagination? Whatever. You're still choosing a Sampire with high SSI, instead of 45 HCI and DCI, 40 LMC and 100 DI. So you are still making a sacrifice, as I suggested.

Actually, as even stated in the title of this thread, you say the Assassin set is useless. It's far from that, as I've proven again and again. The only real sacrifice I've made is a small amount of DI and some LMC. The DI and LMC is traded out for faster swing speed on the slower, harder hitting weapons, so it's basically an even trade, if not possibly a better one since I'll land more hits with higher damage weapons, which means more leeches.


No comment on the 164 stamina huh?

 

[Lynk]

You're the one that needs to go back and do the math "yo". (side note not directed at anyone in particular, ebonics make people sound ignorant, whether they are or not. "Yo" is not a real word unless another "yo" is connected to it by a hyphen)

Jesse from Breaking Bad would beg to differ.

 

[Playhardgopro]

No comment on the 164 stamina, no.

'Ask around, I'm sure others would say the same'.

Yes, I'll start PMing people now. Go look up 'objective'.

'Not when compared to the 150 stamina of yours'.

180 stamina, buddy. With two armour slots free.

'side note not directed at anyone in particular, ebonics make people sound ignorant, whether they are or not'.

Nice disclaimer. Never can be too careful. I, however, was employing irony. Benefit of not living in the US.

'Thanks for proving my point.'

Stop being a tool. If I were in-game and had been since beta I would still rely on internet resources to plan suits, before spending the money (or time, you smug gamer).

'Actually, as even stated in the title of this thread, you say the Assassin set is useless'

No, you've ignored my question mark. It forms a question. Back to school.

 

[Connor_Graham]

No comment on the 164 stamina, no.

It certainly says a lot about a person when they won't admit when they've been proven wrong.

'Not when compared to the 150 stamina of yours'.

180 stamina, buddy. With two armour slots free.

You're the one that used 150 stamina as a comparison. Also, what part of "equal stamina" didn't you get? Regardless of how much stamina you try to put on a suit, my swing speed will ALWAYS be higher than yours, as it isn't possible to reach the same level as what the Assassin suit comes out with because of the 20 SSI. Thus it takes more damage to reduce my swing speed than it would yours, if you were even playing the game. I think you need to go back and reread what you posted as it seems you have forgotten already.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Jesse from Breaking Bad would beg to differ.

Uh....who? lol

 

[Playhardgopro]

'As I see it, you can get 180 stamina by having ring and bracelet with 8 dex each, plus factions crimmy and 125 base dex for 150. And 4 armour pieces with 8 stamina each gives 182 stamina. Leaves you two armour slots free for more powerful artefacts and/or resists.'

Epic fail, dude.

Just to finish this, as it is getting to be a slanging match:

You have 164 (150+) stamina. If you drop to 149 or less you drop a tick. You DROP a TICK. And then you swing at 1.66 seconds (assuming Ornate Axe, which is academic anyway) as the formula rounds down to 120 stamina.

I have 180+ stamina. If I go below 180 I swing at 150 stamina speed. Which, with 30 SSI, is 1.73 seconds.

So you come out just ahead. But you use 4 armour slots for Assassin Armour and at least one more to get the extra stamina increase, right? Whereas I don't have to use that extra stamina increase piece, so I can take 2 armour pieces of choice and have much, much higher resists (across my non-Assassin Armor), more easily.

 

[Lynk]

'As I see it, you can get 180 stamina by having ring and bracelet with 8 dex each, plus factions crimmy and 125 base dex for 150. And 4 armour pieces with 8 stamina each gives 182 stamina. Leaves you two armour slots free for more powerful artefacts and/or resists.'

Epic fail, dude.

Just to finish this, as it is getting to be a slanging match:

You have 164 (150+) stamina. If you drop to 149 or less you drop a tick. You DROP a TICK. And then you swing at 1.66 seconds (assuming Ornate Axe, which is academic anyway) as the formula rounds down to 120 stamina.

I have 180+ stamina. If I go below 180 I swing at 150 stamina speed. Which, with 30 SSI, is 1.73 seconds.

So you come out just ahead. But you use 4 armour slots for Assassin Armour and at least one more to get the extra stamina increase, right? Whereas I don't have to use that extra stamina increase piece, so I can take 2 armour pieces of choice and have much, much higher resists (across my non-Assassin Armor), more easily.

I was just going to let Connor put you in the place but you're the type that even when proven wrong you still babble trying to make yourself sound right in some awful stretch.

Firstly, swing speed calculates only in .25 second ticks. There is no 1.73, there is 1.50 and 1.75 per second.

What Connor is saying is this: With the Assassin armor and a 3 second wep, he can drop down a "tick" in stamina from damage and still swing just as fast BECAUSE ASSASSIN ARMOR GIVES 20 SSI.

That being said I don't use the assassin armor because I have unique jewelry and high end runic armor that lets me fit both healing and anatomy in my sampire template.

 

[Connor_Graham]

You have 164 (150+) stamina. If you drop to 149 or less you drop a tick. You DROP a TICK. And then you swing at 1.66 seconds (assuming Ornate Axe, which is academic anyway) as the formula rounds down to 120 stamina.

At 149 stamina I'm still swinging at the same rate as if I had 209 stamina because of the 20 SSI on the suit. I'm not sure why you're not getting this. Maybe you just don't want to.

Whereas I don't have to use that extra stamina increase piece, so I can take 2 armour pieces of choice and have much, much higher resists (across my non-Assassin Armor), more easily.

I'm 1 point of Energy from having all 70's resists as you can see from the picture above that you won't admit proved you wrong. I don't see how you can have any higher except for that 1 point.

 

[Playhardgopro]

Well I guess we are both calculating SSI differently. I'm entering the correct numbers into the formula on UOGuide which is, apparently, taken from Five on Friday.

You don't just add 20% of your stamina. It doesn't work like that.

And yes, you have the resists but we've already covered that you miss other modifications.

 

[Playhardgopro]

'What Connor is saying is this: With the Assassin armor and a 3 second wep, he can drop down a "tick" in stamina from damage and still swing just as fast BECAUSE ASSASSIN ARMOR GIVES 20 SSI.'

I guess I don't get it because that sounds like rubbish. He can only to that if he is more than one tick below the speed cap of 1.25.

How do you think SSI works? Go to UOGuide and decide if you think the formula there is wrong and, if it is, that's the reason we won't agree.

 

[Odin of Europa]

Looks interesting Connor, you mind telling me what mods you have on your gorget and jewels please? And what your stats are before any armour.

At the mo I have

Mace and Shield Reading Glasses
Jackal's Collar
Rune Beetle Carapace
Arms: 5/24/9/17/17
Gloves: Stam inc 8, 20/23/5/21/9
Fey Leggings
Ring: Str 6, Dex 7, HCI 11, DCI 12, DI 22
Bracelet: Dex 7, DCI 11, FCR 2, DI 23
Conjurer's Trinket or Totem of the Void
Crimson Cincture
Quivery of Infinity
Vet Robe
Snake Skin Bootes
Ornate Axe: HSL 44, HML 63, SSI 25, DI 42

Resists in Vamp form: 70/66/62/60/71

But I have all but the gloves for the Assassin set, so I might try buy them and use that instead.

 

[Connor_Graham]

'What Connor is saying is this: With the Assassin armor and a 3 second wep, he can drop down a "tick" in stamina from damage and still swing just as fast BECAUSE ASSASSIN ARMOR GIVES 20 SSI.'

I never said this. You've really gotten yourself confused.

I guess I don't get it because that sounds like rubbish. He can only to that if he is more than one tick below the speed cap of 1.25.

It sounds like rubbish becuase you've gotten the entire thing turned around. I'm comparing my suit to your fictional suit, not to my own.

 

[Ender76]

I just scored a full set for 4.2mm on Atlantic. Either a missing zero or the guy didn't know what he had. Loving the set up already, still need to tinker with jewels

 

[Diomedes Artega]

I just scored a full set for 4.2mm on Atlantic. Either a missing zero or the guy didn't know what he had. Loving the set up already, still need to tinker with jewels

I would say missing the zero. You can score many a find between the hours that the server goes down and the first hour or so that it comes back up online.

P.S. Nice find...geez!

 

[Lefty]

All I can say reading this thread I have learned a few things. I been trying to build a good stamina suit, but the thing is, getting hit drops it down a tick each time. Clearly a build around SSI trumps a pure Stamina suit. Thanks Connor, your info has hit me like a ton of bricks.