Yeah, I would be willing to give two my 2 castles if we could get rid of castles and keeps as long I could keep my storage. I would however get trouble with finding room for raised garden beds and other resource given lockdowns.
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It was proposed as early as 1998, when shards were getting full of houses, that owners should have to use resources for regular maintenance. It did not go over well. After all, if a player has a castle but logs in once every six months, he's still paying the same subscription fee. In fact, he's using fewer resources (support and bandwidth) than other players. People want to play to have fun, not "work" to sustain something, which was why we got skill locks (and later stat locks).
You are mis-remembering that part of the story. Before the locks, you would get skill gains just by standing next to someone working a skill. So you would work up your magery or warrior skills and then stand next to someone working on hiding and lose your GM skill. Skill locks were the solution.
Happy to let you show me around anytime...i have done a a fw months to be fair on/ off and here and there...and yes i have a house and a semi trained char too....if theres some unique places and stuff id be glad of any tour-dead or alive..lol...its like some shards u hit lucky and get a player helping..other shards u have to do the foot work.
Actually I'd like to see 18x18 storage scale to match a castle storage. Then castles can be just vanity items and not so highly sought after because of the larger storage. I don't believe anyone in Malas really wants a castle - they want the increased storage. I have a castle and I hate it. I'd rather it be smaller footprint. I hate the double doors and crap comming into it. I want an 18x18 but I want the castle storage.
Make this change and castles in Malas is a moot point. If you want a castle for the look - get one in Tram/Fel. If you want max storage 18x18 anywhere.
Many wants just the 'biggest' of all that they can get big. Some want the storage...Make a new thread of increase storage in houses instead.
Its a dead end to keep this discussion to make bigger houses in malas or tokune than a 18' plot - big chief ended that nicely. So, make other suggestions!!!
Increase the house storage of all custom houses - except keeps & castles!!! - and you got a new debate!
No, you are the one "mis-remembering." While you're correct about the campfires, "learning by doing" ended sometime in 1998, and skill locks were not introduced until late 1999.
Skill locks were a necessity because if one didn't work a skill, then it could be the one to go down as others were trained. Every so often I'd have to cast a firefield and run through it, to make sure resist wouldn't go down.
Sometimes when I think "Man I wish I had been able to start playing earlier" (Since I didn't get a home internet connection until late '99, when I was 13, started playing UO Feb of '00) I read more about how things were before it and stop wishing.
She also said a resounding NO about bringing My UO back too, but that has since changed.
People seem to forget the housing rules can and do change and that they used to be extremely liberal. I can personally show you a castle that has a tree INSIDE its outer wall, a keep that sits on the top of a hill with the 4 corners not touching the ground, a large tower placed in a tree that you can run underneath, a courtyarded large tower where all 4 houses have been converted into custom houses, and a 7x7 placed ON THE ROOF of a large tower.
Now, Malas does have a different Z-Axis height, however it is still tall enough to accommodate castles and keeps since they aren't nearly as tall as custom housing. The ground is also very wide open and flat unlike the old worlds so stuff blocking isn't the issue. I think it's less of a can't and more of a don't want to.
There's still one left? I haven't seen any in so long. Those were a nice double-secure storage, sometimes a last resort when the tower's key was stolen/looted.
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only if i can use cannons to lay waste to any 18x18 in LOS of my Castle . . .
I would like to have them bring back multiple homes per account. Atleast maybe 1 per shard.
Goddamn that just makes a depressing and stupid sight. Obviously one not exlusive to Siege in any way. Pretty much the same almost everywhere. Ofc, it makes sense for players to go for them; most valuable house with most storage and all that. Wish devs would have had some foresight to somehow figure how to keep the castle spam from not happening. Make them customizable= problem solved. Or something else. Anything.Can we make a deal for Siege, each time a castle or keep drop in Felucca, that one keep or castle will be allowed to be place in Malas and the plot in Felucca would not again allow a keep or castle to be placed.
I would love to see some of this keep and castles gone.
...Now it is like decade and a half too late for any simple, elegant solutions ofc.
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Oh God.
Let's be real here people ... it's either as easy as a toggle switch from Off to On -- or it's a toggle switch AND a small change to the algorithm that checks for valid placements.
Either way, it's a brain-dead easy change from a technical perspective. Stop giving weight to bad excuses. They don't want it, so it won't happen.
It will be a cold day in Tartarus before I give up my castles Freja... or my keeps - thou I would love to change the inner design!
What I think Mesanna was saying they will take under advisement he possibility of a few new castle & keeps types.
I would not put it past both being smaller in size but more different in look.
As for lock downs.......I would hope they take under consideration the request for a across the board storage number.
This way the new players dont feel inclined for a castle just for storage.
What I think Mesanna was saying they will take under advisement he possibility of a few new castle & keeps types.
I would not put it past both being smaller in size but more different in look.
As for lock downs.......I would hope they take under consideration the request for a across the board storage number.
This way the new players dont feel inclined for a castle just for storage.
We have had design contests before. Knowing that there could be multiple acceptable designs for both the castle and keep might cause greater participation.
What was the old house builder program? I think it broke a long time ago, and I don't think anyone ever generated a replacement.
What was the old house builder program? I think it broke a long time ago, and I don't think anyone ever generated a replacement.
The open areas in Malas need a a central gypsy NPC camp like there are in Ish. Then the area around them can be where only gypsy wagons can be placed. Gypsy wagons with a longer then a boat decay that 1 per account can be placed on a shard the account doesn't have a house on. Could even have 1 or 2 vendors that can sit in the drivers bench.
I need a Gypsy npc vendor camp at the large guard fort at East Brit Crossroad, the player town called Safe Haven on Siege. a few stall vendor spots would be nice too.
I like the gypsy wagon idea too but may be easier to bring back old tents or just allow players to place a small classic 7x7 house with a month decay if not refreshed
I like the gypsy wagon idea too but may be easier to bring back old tents or just allow players to place a small classic 7x7 house with a month decay if not refreshed
You know thats very close to a second house idea that was floated by the dev so many times... a gypsy waggon = a temp tent = a second house.
This is how the dev see it.
It wasa super bad idea when they limited our game movement...ie placement on other shards of homes.
Now I can see on siege with the restriction lifted players adding a home there and playing when they can.
Its always had a secondary shard player presents on siege.
I can see the fustration of many as some shards roll up their sidewalks at one time and the whole shard becomes a ghost town and those who wish to continue to play are sol because they cant go to another shard and pick up from a base of opperation like so many of us who have had the chance of a second house else where.
No one is saying they want on every shard a house... but a second house/gypsy waggon etc wouldmake it a hell of alot easer for some to say go from shard A which ends play at 6 and go to shard B which is up a longer time and play could keep up till a reasonable time.
Remember east coast shards are 3 hours ahead and add in europa and drac in this and you got 5 to 8 hours difference for west coast players.
Work and school is soon to be in full swing as fall is coming August is school and labor day is a little over 30 days off...
Though on Baja a good deal of the players i talk to are in the goldie locks years and still the side walks roll up too early.
This is how the dev see it.
It wasa super bad idea when they limited our game movement...ie placement on other shards of homes.
Now I can see on siege with the restriction lifted players adding a home there and playing when they can.
Its always had a secondary shard player presents on siege.
I can see the fustration of many as some shards roll up their sidewalks at one time and the whole shard becomes a ghost town and those who wish to continue to play are sol because they cant go to another shard and pick up from a base of opperation like so many of us who have had the chance of a second house else where.
No one is saying they want on every shard a house... but a second house/gypsy waggon etc wouldmake it a hell of alot easer for some to say go from shard A which ends play at 6 and go to shard B which is up a longer time and play could keep up till a reasonable time.
Remember east coast shards are 3 hours ahead and add in europa and drac in this and you got 5 to 8 hours difference for west coast players.
Work and school is soon to be in full swing as fall is coming August is school and labor day is a little over 30 days off...
Though on Baja a good deal of the players i talk to are in the goldie locks years and still the side walks roll up too early.
Even the house boat ideal. Even if theese water born fast decay boats stayed locked to additional seafare market dock complex in all sailing water lands. And add in the aqua blue/green moongates that link ALL seafare markets (my cook would like to shop without having to learn to sail). There would also be a gate at the Brit docks. Basic water set plots with lets say 5 standard houseboat design choices. Just have the placement like the gypsy wagon ideal. Placement on shard by accounts that don't have a house on that shard. The decay rate of house boats would avoid anyone that are just squatters. No sale/trade window for houseboats would kill the scripter placement BS.
I think the storage issue would be better met with a little larger then 18x18 custom plot. A 22x22 custom plot with castle locks number. Those that are just using a castle as a warehouse could convert to the new plot and free up space. Could/should even have theese new 22x22 plots one floor lower like castles and keeps are to avoid the borq cube builders. Theese 22x22 customize plot could then be dropped in Malas. No sale/trade window for 22x22 would kill the scripter placement BS.
I think the storage issue would be better met with a little larger then 18x18 custom plot. A 22x22 custom plot with castle locks number. Those that are just using a castle as a warehouse could convert to the new plot and free up space. Could/should even have theese new 22x22 plots one floor lower like castles and keeps are to avoid the borq cube builders. Theese 22x22 customize plot could then be dropped in Malas. No sale/trade window for 22x22 would kill the scripter placement BS.
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I'll never own one as I like to customize. But if they took them off the placement list that wouldn't bother me. People that have one now shouldn't be effected. That wouldn't be right. Perhaps if you took down a castle you could get a deed for extra storage with demolishing it. It would take some thinking to get it to work, but it might be worth the time. Like if I applied my "storage deed" to a house, could I get it back if I demolished that house? But I would think if they took castles off the menu they would have such a cool factor none would ever drop again. While you can't ebay UO stuff, I'm such there are plenty of sites that would pay you for one if you decided to quit. Castles have always been a big part of UO and it would be a shame in general to see them go. Not everyone can have a castle, I congratulate those that do. Someone in UO is always gonna have something I can't get for one reason or another. I don't think much of it. It's a very playable game and there are lots of 18x18 spots on Great Lakes, which I believe to be the 2nd most populated shard. The game is very playable with an 18x18. I remember when the world was new you were very lucky in a short amount of time to even own the smallest of houses. To have had an 18 x 18 that you can make into anything you want is pretty sweet. Be happy for what you can do. It's really not bad at all.
Thats all well and good for Atlantic Lucky but there is no placement issue on the other 99% of shards..
Malas on most is wide - and i do mean WIDE open spaces.
The land for houses in the Zento off ramp is greatly barren of homes, as is TerMur.
I am not pulling your leg, go look for your self.
Felucca is a big wide pit of open space outside those few castles and keeps... the tiny houses you see are grandfathered or someones idea placement. (i told you all that if there was a set lock down on most shards I'd be happy with a little cabin or 10 x10 plot I know I am not the only one who thinks this way.)
Malas on most is wide - and i do mean WIDE open spaces.
The land for houses in the Zento off ramp is greatly barren of homes, as is TerMur.
I am not pulling your leg, go look for your self.
Felucca is a big wide pit of open space outside those few castles and keeps... the tiny houses you see are grandfathered or someones idea placement. (i told you all that if there was a set lock down on most shards I'd be happy with a little cabin or 10 x10 plot I know I am not the only one who thinks this way.)
No one here is, save you. You want a house on every shard. We just want to have some storage!
Edit: forgot what thread this was, lol
Worst argument ever lol.
Guild mates that prefer castles and keeps are having a difficult time participating in a player run town in Malas? That's the lamest excuse I have ever heard for anything in UO.
Which genius so obsessed with castles decided to start a player run town in lands that do not allow castles btw?
I like your argument though. Based upon it I think I will petition the devs to allow reds and pking in Trammel because some of my rping guild mates that own houses there have now decided to turn red and want to pk people on their doorstep.
Why aren't reds allowed in trammel anyway?
I see no real reason for that limitation to remain in place.
If understandably someone has moral issues with reds in trammel maybe instead we could allow castles inside of caves starting next week because a couple of my guild mates that like to mine are having a difficult time not being able to mine inside their favorite cave without the use of a castle to store all of their ore.
I see no real reason for that limitation to remain in place.
lol one of my houses made stratics i placed 2 when u could for etra accounts havnt been back since LOLCan we make a deal for Siege, each time a castle or keep drop in Felucca, that one keep or castle will be allowed to be place in Malas and the plot in Felucca would not again allow a keep or castle to be placed.
I would love to see some of this keep and castles gone.
I miss having less keep and castle in Safe Haven
This is much better and there are still room for some small houses
I would not mind to have a small house on the shards I dont frequent that much. Givem e the lock down of a castle andyou wont hear a peep out of my mouth about storage.
First of all, there is no argument. I was never arguing anything. I started the thread and made one follow-up early in this thread. I would hardly call that arguing and I have not been inclined to even debate about the reasons given for not allowing castles and keeps. So what's the problem?
Furthermore, the person who started the player run town was not obsessed with castles and is no longer ALIVE irl. We keep the town going in his honor. Thanks for being so insulting, though.
Additionally, I fully support allowing reds into Trammel, towns or anywhere else. I never understood that limitation either. Its why I play Siege. Btw, next time you see Mook-Chessy, tell him I said hello! He was also one who wanted a castle or keep in or near our town.
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What house are yours? and if you are not going to play on Siege, would you be willing to let it go or sell it, if we get new citizens needing a home?
I added you to the Safe Haven Citizen forum, as you do own a house or dirt plot there.
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Wow this thread is all over the place, lol. Red is bad. Reds are murderers. The idea is we really don't want murderers in the game, however to spice things up we allow it. So there are penalties for being red other than having a pretty rosy colored name. So yeah keep their butts out of Trammel. They have 5 or 6 other characters to be Trammies with. But I am open minded and flexible. In Trammel reds can attack no one, and blue or groups of blues could attack them at anytime. At that point reds could defend themselves. Instant guard whack in town by any guard that sees them or any player that calls them. That's reasonable and fair. See I'm reasonable and fair 
Actually if housing keeps reds (and the rest of their account) in Fel, super. Fel needs people to live there. Not much reason to live there other than being red. So keeping reds in Fel helps spread out the housing situation.
Actually if housing keeps reds (and the rest of their account) in Fel, super. Fel needs people to live there. Not much reason to live there other than being red. So keeping reds in Fel helps spread out the housing situation.
I have to agree with Kat, reds should be allowed to go to Trammel as they can't hurt anyone there. You could do it as a part of VvV, if they join VvV, they can go to Trammel and can fight other VvV there. Let them show red but with VvV tag.
I know, yet VvV can't fight in Trammel but I hope they allow it.
What matter do it do, if they go in one of their 5-6 blue chars or their red? There soul is still red and if you go to Felucca with one of their blue chars, you may end up in a trap. If they had been on their red char in Trammel, you would had known the risk.
On Siege we love our reds, the few we have.
Back to topic, this thread was about castles in Males, not about reds in Trammel
I know, yet VvV can't fight in Trammel but I hope they allow it.
What matter do it do, if they go in one of their 5-6 blue chars or their red? There soul is still red and if you go to Felucca with one of their blue chars, you may end up in a trap. If they had been on their red char in Trammel, you would had known the risk.
On Siege we love our reds, the few we have.
Back to topic, this thread was about castles in Males, not about reds in Trammel
I have to agree with Kat, reds should be allowed to go to Trammel as they can't hurt anyone there. You could do it as a part of VvV, if they join VvV, they can go to Trammel and can fight other VvV there. Let them show red but with VvV tag.
I know, yet VvV can't fight in Trammel but I hope they allow it.
What matter do it do, if they go in one of their 5-6 blue chars or their red? There soul is still red and if you go to Felucca with one of their blue chars, you may end up in a trap. If they had been on their red char in Trammel, you would had known the risk.
On Siege we love our reds, the few we have.
Back to topic, this thread was about castles in Males, not about reds in Trammel
This is a fun idea but it would be a year (just a guess) before this would get onto TC1. Imagine the packing crate for some of these castles. Another issue would be: how would you be able to place a redesigned castle that was placed under a different rulset? How would they deal with terrain obstructions? It probably creates more trouble than it is worth for the devs which could mean it is a moot idea.
I wish someone at the meet and greet would ask about how Broadsword is going to improve customer support.
I am sorry to hear about your friend and do think it's awesome that you keep the town going in his honor.
I am also surprised and sorry to hear that your current guild mates are not content to place anything other then a castle or keep in their own guilds player run town that is kept going in honor of a former guild mate. I guess the shape of their pixel home or their desire to overfill a house with items is most important to them.
To each his own I guess...
Next time I talk to Mook I will say hi though. He left your guild and Siege long ago but must have made quite an impression on you
so reading all the fors and all the againsts...all the arguments...
and to be fair....allowing keeps and castles in malas...
what actual damage would it actually do??....nothing on 22/27 shards....the other 5 higher populated shards = competition only?
and to be fair....allowing keeps and castles in malas...
what actual damage would it actually do??....nothing on 22/27 shards....the other 5 higher populated shards = competition only?
I don't think UO need more castles and keeps but I do not see why they have all have to be in old Britannia. Limit it to the count of castles and keeps there are on the shard with most of them. When a castle or keep fall, a new can be placed. If someone block old spot with small houses and there are a spot in Malas, allow it to be placed there 
I would like to see them add bigger house plots rather than allow placement of keeps and castles. Such as 20x20 or 24x24 upto the 30x30... etc. etc. I'll be honest, the static castles and keeps are improperly designed, and many of us could do so much better designing our own.
Well if you go into europe and up and down the vast valleys of the rich country sides you will see all sorts of castles and keeps. (keeps is the more garrison looking ones) In rl they come in many types and stone.
Why not have a few size variations but with the same lock downs?
Will it hurt the game?
No...
Freja I can see your fustrated that so many castles and keeps in that area but to be fair that ares was set up just for such a grouping by the Creator of the game.
Castles have a use in UO.
Once in the beginning they were meant for housing big guilds HQ's and to give them places to have meetings.
We still do.
My guild on Atlantic has a grouping of castles all serve the guild and though are the property of the GM we use them nearly every day.
You see them as single person homes.. this is due to the very fact that shard populations of active players is so small to see this need still in your eyes.
Even on Siege where once super guilds roamed.
How I know was my guild there had a castle and a keep and the master GM kept a tower for himself.
The castle was for guild use as was the keep as a dining hall and meeting place.
I didnt drop them when the guild dissapeared to just being me.
I didnt do it out of some hatred of castles or keeps mind you but for the simple fact my son went nuts when a past dev team bald faced lied to players to get us to drop grandfathered homes.
He was afraid of their doing it for him and well.... so went my castle and keep on Siege.
Those castles your so envoius of their land have rights to be there from the opening of "UO".
I do hope Mesanna and the present dev team can formulate a few designs that work well for a smaller space but look elegant and keep the same lockdowns.
Malas could if done right smaller plot size casltes and keeps would make the place not seem so empty.
Why not have a few size variations but with the same lock downs?
Will it hurt the game?
No...
Freja I can see your fustrated that so many castles and keeps in that area but to be fair that ares was set up just for such a grouping by the Creator of the game.
Castles have a use in UO.
Once in the beginning they were meant for housing big guilds HQ's and to give them places to have meetings.
We still do.
My guild on Atlantic has a grouping of castles all serve the guild and though are the property of the GM we use them nearly every day.
You see them as single person homes.. this is due to the very fact that shard populations of active players is so small to see this need still in your eyes.
Even on Siege where once super guilds roamed.
How I know was my guild there had a castle and a keep and the master GM kept a tower for himself.
The castle was for guild use as was the keep as a dining hall and meeting place.
I didnt drop them when the guild dissapeared to just being me.
I didnt do it out of some hatred of castles or keeps mind you but for the simple fact my son went nuts when a past dev team bald faced lied to players to get us to drop grandfathered homes.
He was afraid of their doing it for him and well.... so went my castle and keep on Siege.
Those castles your so envoius of their land have rights to be there from the opening of "UO".
I do hope Mesanna and the present dev team can formulate a few designs that work well for a smaller space but look elegant and keep the same lockdowns.
Malas could if done right smaller plot size casltes and keeps would make the place not seem so empty.
it's was Kurgan's House Builder, and it broke when they changed the file extensions - he did hold a contest long ago and I really wish the old entry thread was still around, there were some beautiful ideas in it, all remaining in the same footprint, and I think most of them held the same height
also wanted to mention.... earlier in this thread someone said that the Malas castle give-away was ten per shard, that is incorrect, it was five, and not all were claimed
To me, the worse problem with castles and keeps are to few doors and to much running. You can secure some rooms and let most be public. Second, at there are wall with no roof in the courtyard, it's very hard to see stuff.
I would love a design like the Two-story Villa, where west and north side is a L building, made like a townhouse so on a castle plot, you would have a 3 story corner house, L form, 12x12 for keep and 13x13 for castle. Then on each side (north and west side), 2 two story houses of 10x6 for keeps and 13 two story houses of 10x6 for castles.
Now make a balcony L form on South/East side of house, 4 tiles deep at keeps and 6 tiles at castle plot with a stair up to it from the courtyard/patio. The courtyard/patio would be 14x14 for keeps and 21x21 for castles including the space below the balcony.
That way you have a large corner building and 4-6 townhouses, where each house do have 2 apartment. In a castle could live a guild, where younger homeless members got an apartment, there would be 8-12 apartment, a shared 3 story house for crafting and meating including a large apartment for the house owner.
Each apartment would have access to a shared balcony or patio outside their door and there would be a shared courtyard South/East.
Now make it possible, to rent out the room, like you rent out a vendor. The renter would get a sign for his door and be able to set secure on door and lockdown/secures inside the apartment.
Give the apartment 250 lockdown each, count for 2 vendors but one vendor are still allowed for each apartment. 500 lockdown/2 vendors for the large apartment. The house owner will keep his lockdowns but if room are rented out, he can place less vendors. Room not rented out will not have their own lockdowns. Can not be rented to house owners chars.
The desing could be castle style as well as the two story villa style with a wall or fence South/East
That's how I would use the plots.
Think my main problem with castles and keeps are, only one player use them. This way they could be useful for player towns
I would love a design like the Two-story Villa, where west and north side is a L building, made like a townhouse so on a castle plot, you would have a 3 story corner house, L form, 12x12 for keep and 13x13 for castle. Then on each side (north and west side), 2 two story houses of 10x6 for keeps and 13 two story houses of 10x6 for castles.
Now make a balcony L form on South/East side of house, 4 tiles deep at keeps and 6 tiles at castle plot with a stair up to it from the courtyard/patio. The courtyard/patio would be 14x14 for keeps and 21x21 for castles including the space below the balcony.
That way you have a large corner building and 4-6 townhouses, where each house do have 2 apartment. In a castle could live a guild, where younger homeless members got an apartment, there would be 8-12 apartment, a shared 3 story house for crafting and meating including a large apartment for the house owner.
Each apartment would have access to a shared balcony or patio outside their door and there would be a shared courtyard South/East.
Now make it possible, to rent out the room, like you rent out a vendor. The renter would get a sign for his door and be able to set secure on door and lockdown/secures inside the apartment.
Give the apartment 250 lockdown each, count for 2 vendors but one vendor are still allowed for each apartment. 500 lockdown/2 vendors for the large apartment. The house owner will keep his lockdowns but if room are rented out, he can place less vendors. Room not rented out will not have their own lockdowns. Can not be rented to house owners chars.
The desing could be castle style as well as the two story villa style with a wall or fence South/East
That's how I would use the plots.
Think my main problem with castles and keeps are, only one player use them. This way they could be useful for player towns
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if they did that i would vote for them only being able to go two story