Make Forged Metal Tools a High End BOD Reward

[Basara]

Specifically (this is a HIGHLY modified version of the data from the enhancing calculator to provide better examples)

The following formulae are used in the calculation of the success chances (
Thanks to Chew of the Tower of Roses for getting the skill formula from Hanse the Developer.):

- All Resistances: Failure % = 20 + Current Resistance +/- (skill modifier)
- Durability: Failure % = 20 + ( Current Max. Durability / 40 ) +/- (skill modifier)
- Lower Requirements: Failure % = 20 + ( Current Lower Requirements% / 4 ) +/- (skill modifier)
- Luck: Failure % = 30 + ( Current Luck / 2 ) +/- (skill modifier)

Drop all decimals from the calculations.

Note that the Durability, LR, and Luck fail chances also apply to weapons. The chances for failure for manipulating elemental damage were never released, but probably are something resembling a cross between resist and LR changes on armor (my best guess would be 20% + current intensity in the element/10 for each element the material adds, even if there's no room for it - the last part, at least, was mentioned by the devs.)

The Failure Chances are checked for each property you are trying to enhance on the item.

Skill Modifier: The Failure Chance is lowered by 1% for every 10 points over Grandmaster Skill. (some sources said +1% at GM as well, but I remember the devs specifically stating +8% at 120 smith with a +60 ASH)

So A GM blacksmith or tailor enhancing a piece of armor with 10 in each resistance with any material that alters all 5 resists (with no other properties added - example: Verite or Barbed) would give you 5 checks with each 30% chance of failure, or 70% chance of success, which in the end amounts to a success chance of about 16%, when truncated (70%*70%*70%*70%*70% = 16.81%).

At Legendary skill (120), the same item would have a success chance on each check 2% higher (72%*72%*72%*72%*72%), as the failure chance drops 1% per 10 points over GM. This equates to a final success chance of 19% (19.35%).

A legendary smith swinging a +60 ASH, for the same enchantment has a +8% success chance per element enhanced (78%*78%*78%*78%*78%), with a final success chance of 28% (28.87% if not truncated).


The chance of breaking an item is about 10% lower than the failure chance for each property that is enhanced.

Only your skill level and the number of properties you are trying to enhance and their original value affects the success chance. The magnitude of the properties you are adding has no effect on the success chance.

Maximum properties:

Certain properties can get close to or pass the threshold where failure gets extremely likely, especially taken in combination.

Resistances: Not gonna happen. Would take 80 in one resist for this to occur. Even enhancing 1 resist that is already at 20, is a 40% chance of failure.

Durability: Not going to happen from this either. Most enhances with Durability increasing ingots will fall between 15%-25% Failure (worst case 26% at GM, unless the bonus for GM is applied as a negative modifier for skills under GM, in which case worst case would be 30% failure)

Lower Requirements: Worst case is 45% at GM, and that's if you're enhancing something already 100% lower requirements (say, enhancing something gold to increase luck that was already 100% LR)

Luck: This is the biggest danger. At GM skill, the chance to break an item that is 100 luck to start is 80%.
That means that a Carpenter, Fletcher or Tinker cannot enhance anything that is 140 luck to a higher luck value without a forged metal tool. 30+70, with no skill bonus.
Legendary Tailors have a 2% chance at 140 luck to enhance luck, as the -2% to failure from skill reduces fail chance to 98%. This means that 144 luck is their 100% fail point.
Legendary Smiths, using a +60 ASH, can take items with up to 155 luck and enhance them (1% success chance at 154-55 luck, 3% for the Wrong/Shame/reforging 150 Luck items).

OF course, that's just for the Luck enhance.

After all, if you have something that only has a 40% cumulative chance to survive resist enhancement (near minimum resists before the attempt with gold), an 80% chance to survive lower requirements enhance (0 LR before the gold), and a 3% for the Luck enhance, that works out to only about a 1% chance to survive ALL the enhancement checks.

 

[elspeth]

I hate the idea of BOD rewards, because they are boring and I don't like it. But I think making a way to craft it in game with rare items or something is a really good idea. Kind of like the 1 use craftable soulstones.

Personally, I've got plenty of gold so when I need to make a specialized suit that utilizes one of these I have no problem investing 20 mil in an item that is going to give me a return on my investment in after 2 weeks of playing.

I agree that these tools should not be available through BOD system and I don't really want it to go through cleanup either because as others have said it is too easy to script this stuff. At the same time I would like it available in game. A craftable single use version of it might be nice. It should be hard to get but not impossible. However, "hard to get" usually means so much farming is required that only scripters will do it and I don't like that idea either and is practically impossible for the casual player.

So, here's an idea, make single use versions available from a long and complex quest chain, perhaps something like the collector quest. This type of thing would be a lot harder to script but would be very doable by a casual player who can do quest steps at various times. Otherwise I say leave it as a pay real money for. It is like the one thing that I have and will spend real money for and as such is a good money maker for UO. As long as that money stays in UO! I'd be mad if it was getting channeled off to some other game.

 

[Basara]

Note that the current way the BOD system works (provided it didn't change with the bribing).

10-count BODs worth 10 points on the reward table.
15 count BODs worth 25 points
20-count BODs worth 50 points

IF exceptional, they get a 100 (tailor) or 200 (smith) point bonus

LBODs get a bonus up to 400 (smith) points.

Materials other than base iron/cloth/leather add bonuses as well.


As a result, you have two different point spreads for the BOD reward tables
Smith BODs top out at 550 (Valorite) + 400 (Plate LBOD) + 200 (Exceptional) + 50 (20-count) = 1200 points.
Tailor tops out at 800 points (20-count Ex 6-part Barbed LBODs), but the highest reward starts at 600 points (20 count Ex 6-part Spined LBODs), if I remember the numbers correctly for leather type.

On top of this, if the random bonus is still active, about 20-25% of the time, BODs get bonuses of up to 200 points (averaging between 50 & 100, based on what little info we were able to reliably collect). Most BODs only get advanced 1 reward step, but 2 steps were uncommon, and 3-4 steps rare, but possible.


One could factor in the random bonus into a system like this.


Proposal:

Once the randomly occurring bonus is factored in, if a BOD is worth 100 points more than the normal maximum point value, a 1-use Forged Metal Tool will drop, instead of a Valorite Hammer or Barbed kit.
IF the BOD is worth 150 points more than the normal maximum, then the Forged Metal Tool would have 2 charges.
If the BOD is worth 200 points more than the normal maximum, then the Forged Metal Tool would have 3 charges.

This way, the tools are not the equal of the purchased tools, and are rare reward upgrades beyond the normal maximum tools, using bonuses already programmed into the BOD system.

 

[NBG]

Chance to enhance is the risk you take if you do not wish to purchase the tool.

It is a trade off on time.

The real argument here should be could you reasonable enhance things in game with current formula. I my view there still need to be some risk of losing an item but maybe the % needs tweaking.

Maybe the in game version could be 75% chance and it would cost a lot of gold.

The tool basically offers the trade off. Pay some real life $ to save time gathering mats\farming for that perfect item to enhance. At the price of $1 per charge for 100% chance to enhance is completely reasonable.

Sale of items like these supports the game and it should remain so.

 

[ACB1961]

I don't know about anyone else, but I hate the way forged metal tools have been introduced the game. The tool itself is an amazing idea, but having the only way you can get them be from UO Game Codes is bad for the game. It's one more step down the road toward making UO a "pay to win" game.

The simple solution is to make them a random high end BOD reward, for both tailor and blacksmith BOD's.

/signed

even if it was a 1-5 use one

 

[Gorbs]

I wouldn't mind seeing 1 charge tools drop as rewards. Give them a random change to drop in addition to the actual bod reward. For example, perhaps there would be a .001% chance for the 1 charge tool to drop with a sturdy shovel. In my scheme there would be a 1% chance to drop with a valorite hammer. Apply the same logic to tailor bods and adjust probability for the spread Basara cited. Alternately, make it another carrot in the game. Give 1 charge tools a chance to drop rarely (in both facets) off of peerless, champs, etc.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I would make it available as both a BOD reward and available from an NPC.

Personally, I'd put it in as a direct replacement for the anvil. Whoo Hoo, a colored anvil, who cares. Put something useful there. It's the perfect spot for it due to the low chance the anvil already has.

Also make it available from an NPC for those who don't do BODs and can simply buy it for gold.

Get rid of the 5 charge tool at the UO store. The 10 charge tool is a better deal anyway.

 

[Percivalgoh]

I don't know Ea makes money from each one that is sold but if they make it a ingame reward then macroers have the edge. Before the metal forge tool many players had the in game wealth to make high end suits without them. They can continue to do so but now the playing field is equalized a little as players have to spend money to make high end items. It takes away from the value of macroing a bit. I say let it stand as it is.

 

[MYUO]

Scripters won't benefit if the tool is avialable as a vet reward and can be charged with 1million gp check/charge - happy vets+good gold sink.

 

[lucitus]

Thats a very nice idea, not only to bring it ingame also a point based bod system with a community collection.

There you can get all rewards for a special amount of points the good thing is if i play much i get it faster if i play less slower but i got the chance to get it, thats fair!

And by the way the other crafting options runic reforging or runic crafting compared to imbuing i would say they are playing now implemented no big role.

 

[elspeth]

Scripters won't benefit if the tool is avialable as a vet reward and can be charged with 1million gp check/charge - happy vets+good gold sink.

I have to vote no to vet reward though because to make it rare it would have to be for only old accounts and then that would be giving an unfair advantage to only older accounts. Vet rewards should be all more deco/fun type stuff that won't actually affect gameplay overly. and you'd still need to farm for the gold for the charges.

I think the collector-like convoluted quest is the best answer. And you could always make it so that the quest can only be done once a day or once a week to make it even harder. Have the tool still available on the origin store for those unwilling to wait/do the work and those who don't want to pay can still get some.

 

[Tjalle]

I think the collector-like convoluted quest is the best answer. And you could always make it so that the quest can only be done once a day or once a week to make it even harder. Have the tool still available on the origin store for those unwilling to wait/do the work and those who don't want to pay can still get some.

Another alternative could be to make it a crafter quest where the reward could be a 75% enhancement. And to make it so it doesn´t reward scripters (for them to repeat the quest and sell the reward) the reward could act as a "pool" on the crafter.

As it is now with the tools, after you´ve clicked it the 100% enhancement stays with you until you make your next enhancement so in a way there´s already a system for the enhancements to stick with the crafter.

So make the reward a "pool" on the character like the Shame crystals and then you can choose when to use the 75% enhancements and after each try the "pool" decreases by 1. Could make the quest capped at one per day or so.

 

[Raptor85]

for anyone saying the tool isn't an advantage, please realize that the tool's main use it to enhance things that are already brought up to max intensity (you may as well if you're using it) which means < 0.1% to actually 0%(for luck items) chance to enhance. Saying "just make a few and keep enhancing till it works" for these higher end items....well, when you're spending a few mil per item crafting them BEFORE the enhance you're basicly setting an impossible price for a player to create such an item, nobody is going to spend 5 billion gold crafting hundreds of mage luck suits with runic reforging and burning relic fragments like mad imbueing their mods to max, when the chance of breaking is nearly 100% (havent worked it out but with the newer luck cap from reforging, 150 befor enhance, it may actually be IMPOSSIBLE to enhance). The tool is definitely an advantage as it allows crafting of items that, either actually or effectively, are impossible otherwise.

 

[MYUO]

We don't necessarily need a tool with 100% success chance for enhancement. What we want is an in game mechanism that gives reasonable chance for success. Make it a first year vet reward charged by 1mil gold check is one idea. Another addition would be adjust the formula so the skill points counted more toward success. This way, smith ASH can have some meaningful uses.

 

[Theo_GL]

Funny thread.

Do you people NOT see the relation of offering small items for sale and then changing the game to require more need for said items??

* Introduce forged metal tool
* Change crafting to add reforging which requires enhancing POST forging


Given the game cannot attract new subscribers (if a single dev can come here and say the games playerbase is increasing I will sell them a bridge in brooklyn), they need a way to get more money from their existing players.

This is in the form of additional accounts and add ons. It is the only hope they have of maintaining or even increasing revenue. They currently manage a game unable of generating new players so they must get as much $$ from the existing addicts as possible. Pure and simple.

They will NEVER add this as a bod reward. Never. Just like baseball games will never give away free beer.

 

[TheLetterQ]

Uhm yeah...

I get free beer as my park. It's in NY...near the bridge...

 

[Raptor85]

Funny thread.

Do you people NOT see the relation of offering small items for sale and then changing the game to require more need for said items??

* Introduce forged metal tool
* Change crafting to add reforging which requires enhancing POST forging


Given the game cannot attract new subscribers (if a single dev can come here and say the games playerbase is increasing I will sell them a bridge in brooklyn), they need a way to get more money from their existing players.

This is in the form of additional accounts and add ons. It is the only hope they have of maintaining or even increasing revenue. They currently manage a game unable of generating new players so they must get as much $$ from the existing addicts as possible. Pure and simple.

They will NEVER add this as a bod reward. Never. Just like baseball games will never give away free beer.

This was true with imbue as well, you could make items up to 550 intensity enhancing after imbue, where if you enhanced before imbue it would eat up weight and you couldn't break cap. (enhancing after imbue you also could stack properties over the imbue cap, like with bows you can ash enhance after imbue to reach 40 ssi, it's basicly impossible on a maxed out weapon without the tool, when i made test weapons for my archer on TC1, to make sure if it was possible before trying it on siege, i never once succeeded in enhancing after the imbue, broke 100% of the time)

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I don't disagree that they'd NEVER make this a BOD reward.

However, they did just recently add in character transfer tokens as a veteran reward. The only difference being you can't take five pack animals worth of stuff with you like you can with the transfer you pay cash for.

 

[MYUO]

I hope the issue with forged metal tool is a design oversight instead of a revenue growth strategy, as it will **** off existing loyal players and water down the game in exchange for a small near term gain in revenue.
There are new players coming to UO - within my limited play time over the last couple of months, I have met and helped several new players getting started. I think the reason they are not staying is that UO has such a steep learning curve and such a huge disparity in resources (wealth and knowledge) among players. Most of the new players got overwhelmed and gave up.

 

[MYUO]

I don't disagree that they'd NEVER make this a BOD reward.

However, they did just recently add in character transfer tokens as a veteran reward. The only difference being you can't take five pack animals worth of stuff with you like you can with the transfer you pay cash for.

and the house teleporter. Vet awards provide long term value to UO while Origin store gives them some quick bucks.

 

[Zero Day]

There's nothing that requires the tool to enhance.
I had alot of kits stocked up and went through probably 70-80 pieces.

I have a success rate of 20-30% at enhancing without using the tools.
I had 3 pieces with exactly the same stats and I broke one and enhanced two.

I have a guildie who has failed to enhance every single piece that was anywhere near to the quality of the ones that I successfully enhanced.

The tool is nice, but I see no need to dip into UO's revenue stream because people are crying about the work it takes to create powerful items on a chance of breaking them.

There used to be a chance to break stuff on repairing things too, maybe they should put that back in. Quityerbellyachin and play the game you lazy bastards.

 

[Raptor85]

are you imbueing to 500 first, or reforging to 150 luck before enhance? In my tests i've yet to have a single piece not break first try at 120 skill with talismen. If i'd tried this on my home shard i would have had to sell my castle and everything in it to make one piece of armor like this.

 

[Zero Day]

I have 114.6 Tailoring
My talisman is +22% Success, 20% exceptional

I break stuff regularly, but I'm chugging through and I'll go through a bag of 20 or 30 items and come out with quite a few really good ones. Though I think there is a conspiracy with the RNG because when I was making suits for my mages every great piece for the mages would break, and now that I'm making dexer suits the mage stuff is enhancing and the dexer stuff is breaking.

 

[Raptor85]

yeah, but what are you enhancing, enhance chance is based directly on the mods of the items, for instance you say great mage stuff will break, that's probably because mods like lmc and regens are really high weight. Luck also counts WAY more to break chance, at 100 luck about 1/5 pieces survives if there is NOTHING on the item but luck, adding in mage properties and resists, and lrc, making it a actually usable piece of armor that survival rate goes to about 1/30. The break chance luck adds is 30 + ( Current Luck / 2 ), so at 150 luck the piece has 105% chance of breaking on enhance.....thus it's IMPOSSIBLE without the tool.