The RNG doesn't "chart" anything.
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Luck Vs Loot
- Thread starter Lord Gandalf
- Start date
- Watchers 10
Much like a clock, a program has independent parts. They may all use cogs and springs, but when the second hand breaks the minute hand keeps going, because they aren't actually connected, they are just part of the "watch", and object we view as a single whole rather than a collection of independent parts working in unison to provide a function.
You are still just looking at the surface of the problem in a superficial sense... yes a function wouldn't serve its purpose if it could perceive beyond what it was supposed to function as but still..
I am no watchmaker but that last comment you made is very self contradictory.
I am no watchmaker but that last comment you made is very self contradictory.
I wonder if they will actually comment. Would be nice to know more concretely how it works. Lot of people probably wasting time and effort trying to perfect their luck suits.
The base loot system was replaced with the loot revamp we did in Pub 86. The RNG was replaced with a more modern version (Bleak made a post about it some time ago). Luck (the stat) only works when we are actually pulling that value into some calculation to determine the outcome of an event. We use the luck stat a couple of different ways depending on which system we are dealing with, across a variety of systems. Unless there is a specific bug within the system that is calling luck, the luck stat is not inherently "broken".
Let's say for example we want to determine whether or not you get a "rare" reward. In order to do so let's say you need to roll >99 when we pull a random number between 1 and 100. Let's say you roll a 2. In this case we may pull luck in and say, if your luck is X, and a random number between Z and Y is less than X, you get another chance to roll for the rare. In other situations we may take a portion of your luck and add it to your roll to see if you win the rare. It varies system to system, and it only does exactly what we tell it to. Nothing more, nothing less.
In the case of loot item property generation, there is more complexity that goes into determining what properties get applied. Look for more detailed information about this process in our newsletter, which you can sign up for on UO.com.
Let's say for example we want to determine whether or not you get a "rare" reward. In order to do so let's say you need to roll >99 when we pull a random number between 1 and 100. Let's say you roll a 2. In this case we may pull luck in and say, if your luck is X, and a random number between Z and Y is less than X, you get another chance to roll for the rare. In other situations we may take a portion of your luck and add it to your roll to see if you win the rare. It varies system to system, and it only does exactly what we tell it to. Nothing more, nothing less.
In the case of loot item property generation, there is more complexity that goes into determining what properties get applied. Look for more detailed information about this process in our newsletter, which you can sign up for on UO.com.
Thanks, I've never noticed it so I'm now subscribed. Thanks
Are you going to post it to UO.com also.
Any information, such as an explanation of luck, that is included in the newsletter will get archived on the website.
Luck works. I don't care what all the naysayers claim, its just not fact.
I farmed for years without luck then broken down and made 2 max luck suits (human & garg).
I can say with 100% certainty that luck does indeed make a noticeable difference.
If your not getting the items you expect try changing what your hunting and give it time.
You will not be disappointed.
I farmed for years without luck then broken down and made 2 max luck suits (human & garg).
I can say with 100% certainty that luck does indeed make a noticeable difference.
If your not getting the items you expect try changing what your hunting and give it time.
You will not be disappointed.
"farmed for years" - Well, the loot system got a major changes just last summer. Did you compare farming the new loot system with and without luck?
This thread started last week, didn't it?
Why not? In my experience putting together a functional high end luck suit (say anything in the 2,000 just on the suit) isn't easy. From burning runics to paying real money for the enhancing tool, a serious luck suit takes an investment. In addition, having the luck items/property always means giving up that slot that could have gone for some other mod. If after all that effort, the impact can't really even be seperated from the normal RNG, then why bother.
I have gone through the suit process a few times for different characters and have pretty much give up on using them. Feels to me like I wasted a lot of time and real money on some effect that really doesn't matter much.
Consider:
Exodus run with 4 characters. 1 with 2000 luck and the other 3 without luck. Odds of the luck affecting the loot = 12.5%. Odds that you can tell the difference between the luck loot and a normal "high" RNG roll = ya right
.Why bother indeed.
Well, no one said it must be high end. I'm sure there are positive effects on lower levels, like 1500 which is pretty easy.Why not? In my experience putting together a functional high end luck suit (say anything in the 2,000 just on the suit) isn't easy. From burning runics to paying real money for the enhancing tool, a serious luck suit takes an investment. In addition, having the luck items/property always means giving up that slot that could have gone for some other mod. If after all that effort, the impact can't really even be seperated from the normal RNG, then why bother.
I have gone through the suit process a few times for different characters and have pretty much give up on using them. Feels to me like I wasted a lot of time and real money on some effect that really doesn't matter much.
Consider:
Exodus run with 4 characters. 1 with 2000 luck and the other 3 without luck. Odds of the luck affecting the loot = 12.5%. Odds that you can tell the difference between the luck loot and a normal "high" RNG roll = ya right
Why bother indeed.
I would argue that as luck is currently applied (at least based on what has been publicly stated by the Devs) that the lower the luck the harder it will be to distinguish between normal RNG and getting the luck bonus. That is because RNG plays into the loot in both the initial role for the loot and the luck application. Here are how I see the options:
Low RNG + no luck = really crappy loot
Low RNG + luck = crappy loot plus maybe a good item
Normal RNG + no luck = crappy loot plus maybe a good item
Normal RNG + luck = normal loot plus maybe a good item
High RNG + no luck = normal loot plus some nice items
High RNG plus luck = normal loot plus some nice items
How can you tell the difference between low RNG with luck between normal RNG without luck... You can't! Maybe over years of hunting you might be able to find a statistical variance between solo hunting with or without luck... But I would argue that natural luck will end up being more significant. IMO if you want to make luck relevant, it needs to be more of a fixed bonus at the player level. 1500 luck should always add a fixed bonus to loot. 2000 luck should always add a fixed bonus to loot that is more than 1500 luck. Again IMO it should all be based on item budgets up to the mobs cap. Here would be an example:
Luck grants 0.25 property weight to the item budget per point.
Balron has a weight range of 250-650 with a cap of 1000.
With no luck the best you could get is between 250-650
With 1000 luck the range changes to 500-900. Possible to still get some of the same items between the 500-650 range, but no loot between 250-500. Upside potential in the 650-900 range.
With 2000 luck the loot range changes to 750-1000(cap). All of the loot now exceeds the loot available from hunting with no luck.
With 3000+ luck the loot range is now capped at 1000-1000. All loot would be generated at max weight.
Certainly other formulas could be done, but get rid of the RNG piece and make luck fixed just like LRC or SSI.
Luck dosnt work at all, Ive tested it for months with allies and Guildies and the best drops always been without the luck suits.
On anther matter, is obvious that some accounts have luck on the automatically, there is people who get way too many drops when doing Champs and peerless and the rest are left aside getting nothing ever.... Not character based but fully ACC based, please can someone clarify this? Are some accounts less valuable to UO that others??
On anther matter, is obvious that some accounts have luck on the automatically, there is people who get way too many drops when doing Champs and peerless and the rest are left aside getting nothing ever.... Not character based but fully ACC based, please can someone clarify this? Are some accounts less valuable to UO that others??
So was that all that was said in the newsletter about luck??
Luck isn't a guarantee, it simply gives you better odds. You can get the same result with or without luck, but statistically with luck you will get the desired result more often. How much more often, that's unknown, and in practice, of course, is based on random numbers so it's pretty hard to judge, certainly, especially so when just using your eyes. Like I said months ago when this thread started, I wouldn't feel like you MUST have a luck suit or all is lost. Just use if you can comfortably fit it in.
Accounts don't have automatic luck. It's just an unavoidable fact that if it's a random system someone will end up being the "luckiest" person, and someone else the least "lucky" and all the rest on a bell curve. It's got nothing to do with the design of the systems, other than the fact that they have random rather than fixed outcomes. That's just how chance works.
Now that's what I call in depth details!
Thats the funniest thing ive ever heard from a dev.
Luck can be found on items!
Luck can affect several items:
1- treasure chests
2- checked uoguide
2- took his Alzheimer pill
4- fell asleep
Ermmm, whatttt!!!!
We could figure out how well luck is working if we did some testing. I've seen screencaps of the EC showing total item weight. So kill a whole bunch of one monster, say 50 balrons, with 0 luck and record total property weight of all the loot. Then kill the same number of balrons with 1000 luck, 2000 luck and maybe 3000 luck. Put all the item weights into a spreadsheet and run a T-test or ANOVA and see if we get a statistically significant increase in weight at higher levels of luck.
It's also important to note that higher weight doesn't always mean "better" items. You could have a really heavy item with overcapped durability bonus, lower requirements, etc. I often get jewels with a bunch of dexxer mods and then high sdi eating up weight because it's part of the "package." It's about both total weight and the randomness of getting a combination of mods that are desirable.
It's also important to note that higher weight doesn't always mean "better" items. You could have a really heavy item with overcapped durability bonus, lower requirements, etc. I often get jewels with a bunch of dexxer mods and then high sdi eating up weight because it's part of the "package." It's about both total weight and the randomness of getting a combination of mods that are desirable.
Yup. Also in order for something to be "good" it not only has to be the correct combo of properties, they have to be high enough to be better than or as good as what people already have. The more time goes by the higher that bar gets set, for both individuals and the general population.
The annoying thing there is that the only items that have a good shot at getting better than imbued items are artifacts.
It was done when LUCK first came out and everyone and their brother was reporting everything they got and if I am not mistaken draconi even stated that luck was not working as they thought it should. The end result was that LUCK was a big rip off because if you bought the reforge tool to make max luck suits you wasted you money.
Great idea but sadly that feature shows incorrect item weights. It's a Pinco UI feature. It worked fine on the older UI but not since this new one.
The downside is that u have to wait 0.1sec to check the item properties of an item on default UI, and around 0.5-2secs on pinco. I guess thats why the devs dont use it
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