Love it or hate it, going free-to-play may save this game

[SchezwanBeefy]

I didn't read many of the above threads, but I think you're right. How would EA implement this though? The game has been P2P for 13 years now. They would have to do it the right way. I think it would bring in many customers, and it would give the game more revenue for better staffing and customer service, which would lead to better expansions, more bug fixes, so on and so forth.

EA is already competing with illegal free shards. Making Origin shard F2P with a smaller subscription fee and buy able items, I think, would bring people back from those shards. They should also implement a Classic shard for those who want to play, because I think it would be heavily populated (a lot of f2p UO shard are classic servers). But that is a topic for another thread.

 

[Arcus]

and it would give the game more revenue for better staffing and customer service, which would lead to better expansions, more bug fixes, so on and so forth.

.

So what you are saying is the new customers will come in, play , have a problem and experience the level of CS we have been subject to .They will then go buy stuff in the F2P model and continue to spend money on stuff in game in the hopes that the CS will get better?

No way in hell.

If anyone at EA is thinking this, they are delusional. We know where the money will go and it wont be to the CS dept.

 

[SchezwanBeefy]

I don't remember even knowing about GMs or anything like that back when I was new... and in the beginning, all you really needed to know were the basics, which any guild could help with. Get them addicted like we all became, and it's a no brainer. =]

 

[copycon]

I don't think UO would be able to compete in the F2P market.

Other F2P games such as those mentioned in this thread are fairly modern offerings in the MMO industry. I would doubt that many players in the larger "gamer" demographics now have ever played or experienced Ultima, and I would think they have little reason or drive to give it a second look. UO being generally referred to as the "grandfather" or the "first" MMO is certainly not a big appeal factor either, and neither term does any favors to attract public attention.

Secondly, UO doesn't offer any potential new players much of anything that hasn't already been outdone elsewhere. There needs to be a unique experience again. Give the players something to do other than kill X monster and get Y loot.

 

[I Play UO]

That doesn't even make sense. The game is obviously different than the original inception over a decade ago. It has been developed and manipulated over the years. If they only once DID something right, the game would have FAILED and we would no longer have the option to play.

It makes perfect sense. Most people would agree that 5-8 years ago UO was one of the most amazing games they'd ever played. As a result, many people stick around in the hopes that UO will once again become what it used to be. You simply can't sit there and state that UO has not gone down hill tremendously since its golden days with a straight face. People have been playing UO for so long, they are afraid to quit playing. Why? Because of the minuscule possibility it returns to what it once was. THIS is why UO has not died yet, not because they are developing the game well. With the current state of development, the more they introduce and change in the game, the faster it will die out.

 

[ohmyGED]

It makes perfect sense. Most people would agree that 5-8 years ago UO was one of the most amazing games they'd ever played. As a result, many people stick around in the hopes that UO will once again become what it used to be. You simply can't sit there and state that UO has not gone down hill tremendously since its golden days with a straight face. People have been playing UO for so long, they are afraid to quit playing. Why? Because of the minuscule possibility it returns to what it once was. THIS is why UO has not died yet, not because they are developing the game well. With the current state of development, the more they introduce and change in the game, the faster it will die out.

Your original quote in which I responded:

No, that means they once DID something right.

Yet again, you speak for yourself, not all players. It is the matter of your personal thought, not facts. If you want to continue a discussion of going back and forth with opinionated comments about whether UO has failed or not, be my guest. Understand, however, that you are speaking only for yourself and not for everyone.

Any if you are going to say this:

With the current state of development, the more they introduce and change in the game, the faster it will die out.

If they apparently only did one thing right....according to you.....and the more they introduce and change, the faster it will die out....why has the game been around for so long?

It's not going anywhere, anytime soon. You may think the game has failed you, but it surely hasn't fail.

Period.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

It will change the game forever, there will be no going back.

Once it's FTP, they will have to sell things that are desirable. That takes away from game play. And as they sell these things they will reach saturation points, and they'll have to come up with new things to sell, ever growing the store bought parts of the game. To help counter this, they will have to sell "replenishable" items, things like potions or function in the same way.

As more players come in that accept this sort of thing, and those that don't leave, the game will change more and more to the FTP player's likes. These players will demand store bought colored ponies and everything else.

You can kiss UO as anything like what we know goodbye.

The alternative was to actually make UO better. Now they'll concentrate on selling things for survival. Such a waste. We can lay blame at the feet of Sunsword and others like dear ol' Anthony. Screw them all. There's no place left for players like me.

oh! buckup bucko!

"The Game" has been heading there since long ago ...
and as its original inception was ALSO pathless, without a clear goal / destination ... there is NO certainty WHERE the game will endup.

Ya can't fix chaos ... bucko.
and UO was indeed Born of chaos, into chaos and survives in chaos.
That it was not stillborn or died in the first days weeks ... is singularly amazing.
That it survived its first year ... amazing
That it has survived this long is amazingly absurd.

It Has survived the emulator "Free space"
It has survived its unusual stance on RMT
It has survived its full step towards F2P (90days grace period)
It has survived the Firing of its unpaid volunteers(Seers and such)
It has survived the "death of its ethic" which are from tram-split, Death of LBritish, AOS, ninjas, race additions(dwarfs would've been >better<)
It has survived ALL the "UO killers" WoW, darkfall, Runescape ...
It has survived the wonky UOGamecodes site which sells items that >shouldn't be available<
It has survived a rep for account hacking, ingame hacking ... being hacked in singular and general categories(shard crash!).

In an orderly world, UO shouldn't be here

So! buckup bucko

and DEAL!!

 

[Adol]

If you hate F2P but they added it anyway, all you'd have to do is keep paying what you're paying now, pick some "free" crap out of the shop now and then, and pretend nothing has changed except... hey... there are more people playing now.

Which is the model I said I'd support, but you were so desperate to be the "Lone voice crying in the wilderness" again, you sad insecure little man, that you didn't even bother to read closely enough to understand this; and just went off on the rant you had already decided you wanted to make... whilst making yourself look like in intemperate buffoon instead of the Bill Hicks/Maher wise guy type you wish you were. At least they had an in depth understanding of what the point of their rants was.

Incidentally, about that point? The new boat is on Test Centre soon, as a community collection. Remember I mentioned that? In the models you were referring too, before you went off on some little argument with yourself about selling horse poop, they rely upon insane grinds to encourage taking financial short cuts to achievement; Ultima Online has only ever sold very small tweaks that weren't available any other way, and when ever they have tried to add grinds, they'd just been scripted into irrelevance. So again, and do try and at least pretend to pay attention this time Skrag; if it's just a normal boat, it doesn't bother me too much if it's in game. But if it's an insane (in the membrane) grind, for something that does change gameplay mechanics significantly... they are moving away from a Sandbox type and risking losing the VIP/Monthly payments by changing the overall design of the game and it's gameplay... which no MMO has ever dared try to do.

Really, do try at least to do the basic research will you?

 

[I Play UO]

If they apparently only did one thing right....according to you.....and the more they introduce and change, the faster it will die out....why has the game been around for so long?
Period.

I already answered that in my previous post if you actually read it.

 

[ohmyGED]

I already answered that in my previous post if you actually read it.

Well....

Most people would agree that 5-8 years ago UO was one of the most amazing games they'd ever played. As a result, many people stick around in the hopes that UO will once again become what it used to be. You simply can't sit there and state that UO has not gone down hill tremendously since its golden days with a straight face. People have been playing UO for so long, they are afraid to quit playing. Why? Because of the minuscule possibility it returns to what it once was. THIS is why UO has not died yet, not because they are developing the game well.

Hmm....and what is that? Pre-AoS? How many years ago was that? It has seemed to survive just fine.

I don't think UO has gone down hill. I think it has changed over time....as most things do. Some people just don't like change and have a hard time dealing with it. Other people choose to adapt.

So you are trying to tell me that people stayed for this long just because they think it is going to return to what is was?

That seems like awfully flawed logic. People waiting that many years? Hmmm.......

 

[Skrag]

Bunch of vague tears about F2P people doing things anyone could do with a trial account right now if they wanted. Blah blah. Adol rambling about distinctions nobody cares about and not understanding what "sandbox" means. Blah blah blah.

1) Take UO as it is and make it free.

2) Subscription required in order to own a house.

3) Sell one-shot soulstones with skills already on them. Does anyone really care if people buy a skill, rather than beat a golem for two days? I trained my necromancy and bushido by putting a spell on a macro and holding the key down with a penny wedged behind it. If I could have paid a few bucks to skip that, would anyone have really been worse off?

4) Profit!

 

[the 4th man]

How is making UO free to play going to keep UO around?? Would you provide a service for free, and pay out a weekly paycheck??

 

[Babble]

Free to play does not mean no profits.
Just free to start, no box no monthly feee, but things like housing, boats, that talking sword that praises you with every hit... such things will cost a fee. Housing a monthly, special boats a one time fee like now,

Thing is, with f2p you hook them .. then you rein them in....

If you check up on gamers you will see that a monthly fee is a big hurdle for most gamers ....

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Most people would agree that 5-8 years ago UO was one of the most amazing games they'd ever played. As a result, many people stick around in the hopes that UO will once again become what it used to be. You simply can't sit there and state that UO has not gone down hill tremendously since its golden days with a straight face. People have been playing UO for so long, they are afraid to quit playing. Why? Because of the minuscule possibility it returns to what it once was. THIS is why UO has not died yet, not because they are developing the game well.

Hmm....and what is that? Pre-AoS? How many years ago was that? It has seemed to survive just fine.

I don't think UO has gone down hill. I think it has changed over time....as most things do. Some people just don't like change and have a hard time dealing with it. Other people choose to adapt.

So you are trying to tell me that people stayed for this long just because they think it is going to return to what is was?

That seems like awfully flawed logic. People waiting that many years? Hmmm.......

Don't bother arguing with logic, ohmyGED. Sadly, it won't sink through the nostalgia and delusional thinking.

Saying that people stayed seven years past the advent of AoS in the hopes that UO will suddenly take an about face and return to the past is hilarious.

UO hasn't died because the vast majority of players have enjoyed most of the changes over the years, just like they enjoyed the advent of Trammel.

 

[ohmyGED]

Bunch of vague tears about F2P people doing things anyone could do with a trial account right now if they wanted. Blah blah. Adol rambling about distinctions nobody cares about and not understanding what "sandbox" means. Blah blah blah.

1) Take UO as it is and make it free.

2) Subscription required in order to own a house.

3) Sell one-shot soulstones with skills already on them. Does anyone really care if people buy a skill, rather than beat a golem for two days? I trained my necromancy and bushido by putting a spell on a macro and holding the key down with a penny wedged behind it. If I could have paid a few bucks to skip that, would anyone have really been worse off?

4) Profit!

Of anyone that has made any F2P posts....this is one has an actual plan. You can't go F2P without generating revenue. This is a good model to follow if we ever were to go this route.

My opinion: It probably never will go to F2P. But who am I to say? I rather keep filling EA/Mythic's pockets so I can keep playing.....been doing it for years and I'm satisfied. They would need a damn good plan to go that route...that's for sure.

 

[chuckoatl]

I stopped reading here EA has always owned Ultima as the ONLINE part. Ultima ONLINE was Release BY EA not bought by EA

You sir are mistaken. Origin released Ultima Online, then it was bought by EA. I still have my original UO box, there is no mention of EA anywhere on it. Just Origin.

 

[Skrag]

Which is the model I said I'd support, but you were so desperate to be the "Lone voice crying in the wilderness" again, you sad insecure little man, that you didn't even bother to read closely enough to understand this; and just went off on the rant you had already decided you wanted to make... whilst making yourself look like in intemperate buffoon instead of the Bill Hicks/Maher wise guy type you wish you were. At least they had an in depth understanding of what the point of their rants was.

Listen, that post of yours I responded to? It was nothing, it was garbage, it was pointless. It was nothing but you going "I hate F2P enough that I would rather kill the game!" and then trying laugably to justify yourself by making senseless distinctions between diku-style (not that you know what that means, you used some made-up term ten times longer) and sandbox MMO gaming.

It was an absolutely typical know-nothing Stratics ****** post, consisting of an ignorant opinion backed up with terminology the poster probably overheard from someone who was actually familiar with elementary concepts of game design.

 

[Arcus]

Bunch of vague tears about F2P people doing things anyone could do with a trial account right now if they wanted. Blah blah. Adol rambling about distinctions nobody cares about and not understanding what "sandbox" means. Blah blah blah.

It was an absolutely typical know-nothing Stratics ****** post, consisting of an ignorant opinion backed up with terminology the poster probably overheard from someone who was actually familiar with elementary concepts of game design.

Thanks for making my point about your posts! You are awesome!

 

[Coppelia]

It will change the game forever, there will be no going back.

Once it's FTP, they will have to sell things that are desirable. That takes away from game play. And as they sell these things they will reach saturation points, and they'll have to come up with new things to sell, ever growing the store bought parts of the game. To help counter this, they will have to sell "replenishable" items, things like potions or function in the same way.

As more players come in that accept this sort of thing, and those that don't leave, the game will change more and more to the FTP player's likes. These players will demand store bought colored ponies and everything else.

You can kiss UO as anything like what we know goodbye.

The alternative was to actually make UO better. Now they'll concentrate on selling things for survival. Such a waste. We can lay blame at the feet of Sunsword and others like dear ol' Anthony. Screw them all. There's no place left for players like me.

Welcome to uogamecodes.com
It's already there.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I stopped reading here EA has always owned Ultima as the ONLINE part. Ultima ONLINE was Release BY EA not bought by EA

You sir are mistaken. Origin released Ultima Online, then it was bought by EA. I still have my original UO box, there is no mention of EA anywhere on it. Just Origin.

No, it is you who are mistaken. EA bought Origin in 1992 and thusly has always owned UO.

 

[Babble]

As Kristen says, EA bought Origin long before UO (the one we know) was even started. There had been daydreams around earlier, but none of them ever got started.

OWO was just a domain name that Origin bought to host UO servers, at a time where there were hopes of making more than one virtual world. We ran it as a rogue domain with a rogue FAQ that quite horrified the marketing department.

The initial money for UO, legend has it, came directly from EA with a “special projects” sort of check provided by Larry Probst. It was relatively little — $1m, I think — and Richard Garriott is the one who went to bat to get it.


Oh, I should add that not only was EA completely clueless about what we were doing when making UO, so was most of Origin. UO really was a skunkworks thing.

Raph's Website » EA buys Mythic

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

As Kristen says, EA bought Origin long before UO (the one we know) was even started. There had been daydreams around earlier, but none of them ever got started.

OWO was just a domain name that Origin bought to host UO servers, at a time where there were hopes of making more than one virtual world. We ran it as a rogue domain with a rogue FAQ that quite horrified the marketing department.

The initial money for UO, legend has it, came directly from EA with a “special projects” sort of check provided by Larry Probst. It was relatively little — $1m, I think — and Richard Garriott is the one who went to bat to get it.


Oh, I should add that not only was EA completely clueless about what we were doing when making UO, so was most of Origin. UO really was a skunkworks thing.

Raph's Website » EA buys Mythic

$250,000 ... quarter mill

GameSpy.com - Gaming's Homepage

 

[MrWilliams]

EA is already competing with illegal free shards. Making Origin shard F2P with a smaller subscription fee and buy able items, I think, would bring people back from those shards.

The subscription fee isn't the reason why people aren't playing the production shards, its the ruleset!

If the devs want people to play this game again they have to bring back the open ended sandbox style gameplay that it is most fondly remembered for.

 

[Zosimus]

The subscription fee isn't the reason why people aren't playing the production shards, its the ruleset!

If the devs want people to play this game again they have to bring back the open ended sandbox style gameplay that it is most fondly remembered for.

Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner. This post sums it up. Issue is a classic shard in a ftp model. Like I said before, they could charge for housing and deco on a classic shard. The non classic shards they could charge for endless items.

Still waiting for CAL mid month video to see what he has to say on stuff. He made the comment last month so lets see he fails or passes on this comment. Mid month is tomorrow in my book so atm he is failing.

Cal so man up and quit making people wait. Mid month is upon us. I want to see the video you promised and see who is drinking a beer during it.

 

[copycon]

Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner. This post sums it up. Issue is a classic shard in a ftp model. Like I said before, they could charge for housing and deco on a classic shard. The non classic shards they could charge for endless items.

Still waiting for CAL mid month video to see what he has to say on stuff. He made the comment last month so lets see he fails or passes on this comment. Mid month is tomorrow in my book so atm he is failing.

Cal so man up and quit making people wait. Mid month is upon us. I want to see the video you promised and see who is drinking a beer during it.

This.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner. This post sums it up. Issue is a classic shard in a ftp model. Like I said before, they could charge for housing and deco on a classic shard. The non classic shards they could charge for endless items.

Still waiting for CAL mid month video to see what he has to say on stuff. He made the comment last month so lets see he fails or passes on this comment. Mid month is tomorrow in my book so atm he is failing.

Cal so man up and quit making people wait. Mid month is upon us. I want to see the video you promised and see who is drinking a beer during it.

bzzzzt!
your "classic shard" as f2p is a dumbed down version of Test shard ... no cost to play .. just more peeps in the mosh pit ... Not caring to leave the mosh pit ... no need of a band even ... they'll be playing their own music >individually< in their space ... shouting Powned at home ... typing powned on screen ... doodling on the internet wearing capes and waving swords or wands in one "place" for sure UO ... perhaps at home too ...

brrrr!

 

[Zosimus]

bzzzzt!
your "classic shard" as f2p is a dumbed down version of Test shard ... no cost to play .. just more peeps in the mosh pit ... Not caring to leave the mosh pit ... no need of a band even ... they'll be playing their own music >individually< in their space ... shouting Powned at home ... typing powned on screen ... doodling on the internet wearing capes and waving swords or wands in one "place" for sure UO ... perhaps at home too ...

brrrr!

Like Igive a >hoot< what you say. You and I have a bet to settle so this is the bet at least on my part I am wanting to settle it. Cal needs to step up to the plate and do the "state of the game" video as he stated.

I know you are against classic. I think it scares you if they made a classic shard it ruin your game play. REALLY please explain your reasoning truthfully. Dont use the old excuse of resources and a short handed dev team. They be fixing bugs now but atm they are dealing with hardware issues. They just keep adding up on top of the mess they are creating.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Like Igive a >hoot< what you say. You and I have a bet to settle so this is the bet at least on my part I am wanting to settle it. Cal needs to step up to the plate and do the "state of the game" video as he stated.

I know you are against classic. I think it scares you if they made a classic shard it ruin your game play. REALLY please explain your reasoning truthfully. Dont use the old excuse of resources and a short handed dev team. They be fixing bugs now but atm they are dealing with hardware issues. They just keep adding up on top of the mess they are creating.

link the bet "we have" ... calling your bluff
show the link.

As far as cal is concerned ... he already lost that bet ... end of year ... didn't happen

took an extension without permission/acceptance.

 

[HD2300]

Like Igive a >hoot< what you say. You and I have a bet to settle so this is the bet at least on my part I am wanting to settle it. Cal needs to step up to the plate and do the "state of the game" video as he stated.

I know you are against classic. I think it scares you if they made a classic shard it ruin your game play. REALLY please explain your reasoning truthfully. Dont use the old excuse of resources and a short handed dev team. They be fixing bugs now but atm they are dealing with hardware issues. They just keep adding up on top of the mes:loser::loser:s they are creating.

The answer is NO. suckers!!!

After all the trainwrecks in the last month, you think Cal wants to deal with a 100 nutjob Loughners here??

The video will be to promote the next booster, and UHall will go OTT. You were merely puppets/useful idiots, whose services are not longer needed. :loser:

 

[Babble]

Hey anyone needs me? Why wasn't I told?
hmpf

 

[Zosimus]

This link here.... http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/229306-classic-shard-dont-bother-devs.html#post1871231

Since Cal said he would address things in mid January it pushed our " bet" to a later date. If Cal >postpones<... or... >avoids< it again till a later date our bet still stands... until....he >settles< it.

Bluff my arse. You >Fayled< to stay on top of this one.

 

[Zosimus]

The answer is NO. suckers!!!

After all the trainwrecks in the last month, you think Cal wants to deal with a 100 nutjob Loughners here??

The video will be to promote the next booster, and UHall will go OTT. You were merely puppets/useful idiots, whose services are not longer needed. :loser:

The bug fix booster. $14.99 to fix the current bugs of the previous booster. Yeah I sooooooooooooooooooooooooo totally forgot. LOL....so you result to insults. I can play that game with a better results. Hope that one brain cell you had left didnt burn out on that post with all that "thought" put into it.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

This link here.... http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/229306-classic-shard-dont-bother-devs.html#post1871231

Since Cal said he would address things in mid January it pushed our " bet" to a later date. If Cal >postpones<... or... >avoids< it again till a later date our bet still stands... until....he >settles< it.

Bluff my arse. You >Fayled< to stay on top of this one.

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/229306-classic-shard-dont-bother-devs.html

bet is proposed/negotiated/SET @ post #98

fine ...
I'm betting that there will either be >No answer< before the end of the year OR
the answer will be > NO < classic/retro/prePubsubn

IF there is no answer and/or a No answer
YOU: quit posting about "it"

IF there is a "yes" answer, before the end of the year
>I< will quit posting, anywhere on stratics ... for 2 months.

there was NO answer before the end of the year ... an extension(beg for more time) is NOT an answer.

You Have spoken/posted of classic shards("it") since ...

you have welched the bet.

/simple nor gate logic

 

[Zosimus]

That thread also got locked not to soon afterwards. So Cal said in another post in another thread that they would address the issue in mid January. Which changed the aspects of the bet. Since he changed when he was going to answer are you >skeered< to continue the bet? You looking for the easy way out by your rule? Cal will >supposedly< address this so Im willing to wait to continue the bet.

Plus you have a flaw in your bet by the magic word that negated the end of the year timeline....

I'm betting that there will either be >No answer< before the end of the year OR
the answer will be > NO < classic/retro/prePubsubn

You >ALSO< should of put the remark "before then end of the year >after< this.....
classic/retro/prePubsubn <------ that extended the bet in my book. You used the word >OR< to connect but the lack of adding 6 more words left that last sentence fragment open. If he doesn't answer soon which is mid January as he claimed. I will owe up to my end of the bet and you win. How is that? Cal fails so may times in my book I will lose just on that alone but >woot<. No more reading your jargon is a win win for me


la la la la la

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

That thread also got locked not to soon afterwards. So Cal said in another post in another thread that they would address the issue in mid January. Which changed the aspects of the bet. Since he changed when he was going to answer are you >skeered< to continue the bet? You looking for the easy way out by your rule? Cal will >supposedly< address this so Im willing to wait to continue the bet.

Plus you have a flaw in your bet by the magic word that negated the end of the year timeline....




You >ALSO< should of put the remark "before then end of the year >after< this.....
classic/retro/prePubsubn <------ that extended the bet in my book. You used the word >OR< to connect but the lack of adding 6 more words left that last sentence fragment open. If he doesn't answer soon which is mid January as he claimed. I will owe up to my end of the bet and you win. How is that? Cal fails so may times in my book I will lose just on that alone but >woot<. No more reading your jargon is a win win for me


la la la la la

Your book is not very adult ... just saying ... anyone familiar with bar bets, sucker bets ... bets of the stated form ... that you >accepted< ...
Generally are bets AS when accepted ... not when trying to being weaseled about AFTER they are accepted & Not agreed to by both parties.

but sure ... if you want to FINALLY accept your loss at a later date ... STATE what that day date time might be ...
I would suggest as a "mid point" for a 31 day month(January) 15.5 days
aka Jan 15th 12:00:00 hours

Good luck to ya!

 

[Skrag]

Realistically all that would happen is there would be an announcement. "All existing subscribers get X number free UO Shop Points per month to spend on new goodies!" If you're subscribing, nothing changes except you get to pick out a certain amount of "free" shop stuff per month.

Meanwhile the servers are opened up to a flood of new free players who can't own houses or go over 100 in a skill until they pay something. They can get UO Shop Points to spend on whatever, but they have to pay for those too.

But you don't care, you're a subscriber and you're paying the same $13 or whatever you've been paying forever, except now it gets you "free" items on top of the right to play.

 

[Zosimus]

Your book is not very adult ... just saying ... anyone familiar with bar bets, sucker bets ... bets of the stated form ... that you >accepted< ...
Generally are bets AS when accepted ... not when trying to being weaseled about AFTER they are accepted & Not agreed to by both parties.

but sure ... if you want to FINALLY accept your loss at a later date ... STATE what that day date time might be ...
I would suggest as a "mid point" for a 31 day month(January) 15.5 days
aka Jan 15th 12:00:00 hours

Good luck to ya!

Yah yah. Talk to my lawyer for my business about >iron clad agreements< because I was just recently burned by certain words that I had missed on an end of sentence. Even though they were included on the above and after sentence one fragment burned me. Lesson learned. No big loss in the end for me . You know Fayled, since it would make you feel better about the >FORGOTTEN< bet that I had to >remind< you I will go ahead and admit defeat. I lose you win. Hope that makes you >feel< so much better now. In my book... you will always type jargon and contribution will be an epic >Fayled< for UO. HTF you type that way is beyond me. Butchering posts is work..

Off to a free shard.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

...Meanwhile the servers are opened up to a flood of new free players...

This is the most speculative aspect of the whole F2P notion. Slightly more believable than the 'a classic shard would bring back thousands!' propaganda.

Do I think it may bring in new people? Yes. A 'flood'? Not likely, at least not without a serious and maintained advertising push from EA.

Personally, I don't believe that EA would fork up the money... Nor that they could pull off a D&D/LotRO-esque F2P conversion success.

The biggest hurdle facing UO's future isn't F2P, or even Mythic's rampant incompetence... It's EA.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Realistically all that would happen is there would be an announcement. "All existing subscribers get X number free UO Shop Points per month to spend on new goodies!" If you're subscribing, nothing changes except you get to pick out a certain amount of "free" shop stuff per month.

Meanwhile the servers are opened up to a flood of new free players who can't own houses or go over 100 in a skill until they pay something. They can get UO Shop Points to spend on whatever, but they have to pay for those too.

But you don't care, you're a subscriber and you're paying the same $13 or whatever you've been paying forever, except now it gets you "free" items on top of the right to play.

The f2p model, while not entirely a bad one, has no relevance to UO success today. New players already come and go all the time on the trial accounts, it is not the subscription that is the hurdle for most of them.

The 2d clients poor graphics, reason 1 for lack of new players.

Bad reputation, and no official word of any type of "change". This goes towards mostly "cheating" Everyone and their mother either accuses people of cheating, believes cheating is rampant, or agrees that cheating is killing the game. All the while with no one from an official source stating that they are vigilantly battling the problem. Try marketing that on a day to day basis.

Would anyone like this bug? Same as reason number 2. While most games have scores of bugs, no game has as many visible and actively complained about bugs. Not to mention some of the bugs which are allowed to exist for extended periods of time (once again with out word from any developer on even the possibility of it being fixed, or addressed, or even a "we are not sure why this happened") being game breaking.

And, of course, Marketing. There is $0 being spent on that, so word of mouth will be the only way to get any new people, plus most of them would either quit or not buy anything considering the issues above.

Might be able to come up with other reasons, but those alone not being addressed BEFORE any talk of "f2p" will be the downfall of UO as f2p will not increase revenue, it may not even increase active players. Face the facts, "free" is not going to get them more money, in fact I am willing to bet they would lose money, not only that but I am convinced the only people who would pay anything, meaning buy things from the shop, are the same people who currently do. So do you think the money they make currently would sustain UO long enough to survive them actually fixing things in the game?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

This is the most speculative aspect of the whole F2P notion. Slightly more believable than the 'a classic shard would bring back thousands!' propaganda.

The biggest hurdle facing UO's future isn't F2P, or even Mythic's rampant incompetence... It's EA.

You really have no idea what goes on at Bioware or EA, so to call people out on speculating things and then to make a larger speculation is just wrong.

EA might not have huge amount of love for UO, but it does not mean it entirely is holding it back. I guess you could blame EA if you wish to blame the fact that Bioware/mythic has to share employees, and CS, and resources, then sure You can blame them. Lets not forget though, Bioware in theory gets to allocate those resources, so that means if they wanted to give every other game just 1% they could, and focus on UO. So it is really no different than Bioware being its own company, only difference is they have to look at the bottom line and think "how can we bring that up so EA doesn't get rid of us too". But then I guess so far Origin went to Mythic, Mythic went to Bioware. Common factor? UO not prospering. Guess we can say bye to Bioware in another 4-5 years

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

You really have no idea what goes on at Bioware or EA, so to call people out on speculating things and then to make a larger speculation is just wrong.

Actually, we have quite a bit about what 'goes on' at EA. 14 years of history in how it has dealt with UO in fact. How little respect and resources it has allocated to the game and the studios which have worked on it. How it has pared down the online CS to the point if barely being able to function. How UO is difficult to find on any EA website even when there is an expansion/booster release.

The speculation that UO would gain 'a flood of new people' by going F2P isn't based on EA or Mythic. It's based on the wishful thinking of a player due to the fact that Turbine has sucessfully converted MMOs to F2P. It's not based on long-running interest in UO from the larger MMO community.

As I said before, that speculation is about as grounded as the classic shard propoganda. It's wishful thinking, nothing more. F2P could give a boost, but its far from concrete.

EA might not have huge amount of love for UO, but it does not mean it entirely is holding it back. I guess you could blame EA if you wish to blame the fact that Bioware/mythic has to share employees, and CS, and resources, then sure You can blame them. Lets not forget though, Bioware in theory gets to allocate those resources, so that means if they wanted to give every other game just 1% they could, and focus on UO. So it is really no different than Bioware being its own company, only difference is they have to look at the bottom line and think "how can we bring that up so EA doesn't get rid of us too". But then I guess so far Origin went to Mythic, Mythic went to Bioware. Common factor? UO not prospering. Guess we can say bye to Bioware in another 4-5 years

EA writes the checks. EA lays people off. Bioware Mythic is only a studio in EA's collective. Cal may 'go to bat' for UO with the corporate suits, but ultimately its EA's decision as to the game's fate.

 

[Skrag]

People play anything if it's free. People play stupid ass freeshards. People play Runescape and that game is ****ing terrible and just an ugly UO ripoff to boot.

I mean really, answer me this: What do we currently gain by kicking trial accounts out after 14 days if they don't pay up? Are the shards so full that bandwidth is at a premium and we need to get rid of those freeloaders to make room for more paying players?

No. Keep those freeloaders around. Maaaaybe they decide they need a house and decide to subscribe eventually. Maybe they don't. Maybe they just live out of their bankbox, but one day they get sick of training Ninjitsu or something and decide to buy GM Ninjitsu out of the UO Cash Shop for $8 or something. Maybe they just banksit and make Legends or something feel less empty.

To be blunt, asking for $13 a month every month forever is, in fact, a very major decision point for a customer. (WoW has like a 30% retention rate on it's trial accounts and that's considered huge.) It's much easier to keep someone around by giving them the basics for free and then nickel-and-diming them to death.

And if you're already subscribing, then like I said, nothing changed. You don't get nickeled and dimed, you just keep paying your monthly fee and get a certain amount of that nickel and dime stuff just given to you for your money and loyalty.

EDIT: Oh also, two words, BROWSER CLIENT. This game is old and primitive enough that it ought to be able to function in Java or something (like Runescape) with a little work. Ditch the monthly fee and the installation requirement and yes, you'll have people all over the damn place. Kids logging in from libraries and crap.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Actually, we have quite a bit about what 'goes on' at EA. 14 years of history in how it has dealt with UO in fact. How little respect and resources it has allocated to the game and the studios which have worked on it. How it has pared down the online CS to the point if barely being able to function. How UO is difficult to find on any EA website even when there is an expansion/booster release.

The speculation that UO would gain 'a flood of new people' by going F2P isn't based on EA or Mythic. It's based on the wishful thinking of a player due to the fact that Turbine has sucessfully converted MMOs to F2P. It's not based on long-running interest in UO from the larger MMO community.

As I said before, that speculation is about as grounded as the classic shard propoganda. It's wishful thinking, nothing more. F2P could give a boost, but its far from concrete.



EA writes the checks. EA lays people off. Bioware Mythic is only a studio in EA's collective. Cal may 'go to bat' for UO with the corporate suits, but ultimately its EA's decision as to the game's fate.

You are speculating all of that again. EA writes the checks, yes, but do you know how they write them? They allot Bioware money. So then speculatively, Bioware gives UO its allocation, or lack there of. Your "History" is moot, as it is not a fact of what happens. So EA's failure is its failure to support the companies it owns, not the products those companies work on. They give Bioware money for people, if the money they give can support 100 then that is all Bioware can have on staff, if tomorrow they give them money for 80 people, either everyone takes a 20% cut in pay, or we lose 20% of the staff. Does that mean EA dictated that they fire 20 people? Or that they cut the payroll by 20%? You can "decide" or as I stated, speculate, but you don't know short of someone here saying "well guys, the Board of Directors for EA came down to Bioware today and told us we have no choice but to fire 20% of the mos productive people among you, no offering to take a pay cut wont work." Can you tell me this happened? Can you tell me that EA's directors went to Bioware and told them they can not spend any money on their mythic IPs? Tell me again how you are not speculating?

Did I argue your points about f2p? Or did you feel the need to repeat yourself?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

People play anything if it's free. People play stupid ass freeshards. People play Runescape and that game is ****ing terrible and just an ugly UO ripoff to boot.

I mean really, answer me this: What do we currently gain by kicking trial accounts out after 14 days if they don't pay up? Are the shards so full that bandwidth is at a premium and we need to get rid of those freeloaders to make room for more paying players?

No. Keep those freeloaders around. Maaaaybe they decide they need a house and decide to subscribe eventually. Maybe they don't. Maybe they just live out of their bankbox, but one day they get sick of training Ninjitsu or something and decide to buy GM Ninjitsu out of the UO Cash Shop for $8 or something. Maybe they just banksit and make Legends or something feel less empty.

To be blunt, asking for $13 a month every month forever is, in fact, a very major decision point for a customer. (WoW has like a 30% retention rate on it's trial accounts and that's considered huge.) It's much easier to keep someone around by giving them the basics for free and then nickel-and-diming them to death.

And if you're already subscribing, then like I said, nothing changed. You don't get nickeled and dimed, you just keep paying your monthly fee and get a certain amount of that nickel and dime stuff just given to you for your money and loyalty.

EDIT: Oh also, two words, BROWSER CLIENT. This game is old and primitive enough that it ought to be able to function in Java or something (like Runescape) with a little work. Ditch the monthly fee and the installation requirement and yes, you'll have people all over the damn place. Kids logging in from libraries and crap.

I am not sure if any of this had to do with my post, but none of it really goes towards what I said. I do not disagree with the f2p model, I am pro-anything-that-keeps-uo-alive. I did however point out many things that have to happen before f2p is even considered. Although "1" might not be as big of an issue as you see it, but currently it is big enough.

I prefer to keep the game mechanics as they are now, just turn the trial accounts to "endless" Not like they lose anything that way, although they need to add a small little bit of code that makes those accounts as free, and thus not able to place a house (as of right now the code revokes that right based on a time limit) Pay for your house, not everyone needs one. And certainly not most of the people who would play for free. But still, again, most if not all of what I posted in my previous post would have to be addressed before any of this.

 

[Skrag]

Not really directed at anyone. I'm just thinking...

1) Runescape is in many ways ripped off from UO.
2) Runescape is ugly and terrible.
3) Despite this, Runescape is one of the biggest MMOs around.
4) Why? Because Runescape has an F2P option and browser client.

Man that's the game UO needs to be going after. Not sitting here going "pay us $13 a month forever" where their competition is WoW and stuff.

Seriously, see this chart that gets pasted around a lot?

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1_files/Subscriptions_8846_image001.png

See the game that comes in second behind WoW as of 2008? A distant second, but second, and growing? HERE IS WHAT THAT GAME LOOKS LIKE.

UO needs better graphics my ass. UO needs F2P and a browser client.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

You are speculating all of that again. EA writes the checks, yes, but do you know how they write them? They allot Bioware money. So then speculatively, Bioware gives UO its allocation, or lack there of. Your "History" is moot, as it is not a fact of what happens. So EA's failure is its failure to support the companies it owns, not the products those companies work on.

The likelihood that EA writes Bioware a blank check and then says "use this wisely!" before toddling off is about nil. Corporate bean counting isn't that lax, and the argument falls apart when you take into consideration the projects that EA has cancelled.

Obviously EA pays attention to what its studios are doing. About the only reason 'Bioware' still exists as a name is due to the fact it is a recognizable name. Origin was once a well-respected name, then a decade after EA bought them they went poof. Mythic is going slightly faster, and per your own words Bioware is next (eventually).

But no, the studios aren't separate entities that merely accept EA's money while doing whatever they want.

They give Bioware money for people, if the money they give can support 100 then that is all Bioware can have on staff, if tomorrow they give them money for 80 people, either everyone takes a 20% cut in pay, or we lose 20% of the staff. Does that mean EA dictated that they fire 20 people? Or that they cut the payroll by 20%? You can "decide" or as I stated, speculate, but you don't know short of someone here saying "well guys, the Board of Directors for EA came down to Bioware today and told us we have no choice but to fire 20% of the mos productive people among you, no offering to take a pay cut wont work." Can you tell me this happened? Can you tell me that EA's directors went to Bioware and told them they can not spend any money on their mythic IPs? Tell me again how you are not speculating?

The EA mandated layoffs are a well reported fact. They continually cut their global staff in an attempt to mitigate their losses from poor business practices and failed products. The big layoff where we lost several important people from UO came from EA, not Mythic. In fact, they did it again this fall. Fortunately UO didn't visibly lose anyone.

Re: F2P - I'm not against it, in theory. Having the free trial go F2P is a good idea and may be a good barometer to test UO's potential. However, to be a success, UO would have to not only gain subscribers BUT generate greater profits as well.

 

[Ancient Sosarian]

Some clarification would be helpful.

How would f2p affect folks with multiple accounts and multiple houses? If they must PAY for those houses it isn't FREE to Play for them, is it?

I need to hear more on this.

 

[I Play UO]

The likelihood that EA writes Bioware a blank check and then says "use this wisely!" before toddling off is about nil. Corporate bean counting isn't that lax, and the argument falls apart when you take into consideration the projects that EA has cancelled.

Obviously EA pays attention to what its studios are doing. About the only reason 'Bioware' still exists as a name is due to the fact it is a recognizable name. Origin was once a well-respected name, then a decade after EA bought them they went poof. Mythic is going slightly faster, and per your own words Bioware is next (eventually).

But no, the studios aren't separate entities that merely accept EA's money while doing whatever they want.



The EA mandated layoffs are a well reported fact. They continually cut their global staff in an attempt to mitigate their losses from poor business practices and failed products. The big layoff where we lost several important people from UO came from EA, not Mythic. In fact, they did it again this fall. Fortunately UO didn't visibly lose anyone.

Re: F2P - I'm not against it, in theory. Having the free trial go F2P is a good idea and may be a good barometer to test UO's potential. However, to be a success, UO would have to not only gain subscribers BUT generate greater profits as well.

Notice how awful runescape is?

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Naughty Skrag!

Thats a screenshot of their 'classic' client...

Why not show off the 'prettier' client as well?

 

[Skrag]

Some clarification would be helpful.

How would f2p affect folks with multiple accounts and multiple houses? If they must PAY for those houses it isn't FREE to Play for them, is it?

I need to hear more on this.

Okay, here's the Skrag plan for F2P. Basically all we're doing is making the free trial infinite instead of 14 days.

1) Must subscribe to own a house.
2) Must subscribe to eat powerscrolls.
3) Can buy all sorts of crap with "UO Shop Points", tokens that grant GM skills, more house deco, whatever sort of nickel and dime widgets they can think up.
4) Subscribers get a monthly allotment of UO Shop Points as part of their subscription.
5) Free players must buy UO Shop Points with money if they want any.

If you want to keep your houses then no, it's not free. All that changes is that you get points toward free goodies each month, and the shards have more people on them.

Naughty Skrag!

Thats a screenshot of their 'classic' client...

Why not show off the 'prettier' client as well?

I typed "runescape" into Google Images and that one I posted is what I got. It's also what the game looked like last time I saw it years ago. Regardless, that one you posted isn't an actual gameplay screenshot from the looks of it, and I can't find an actual gameplay shot that doesn't look like ass.

Ok, here's an image from their play guide on the website.

Yeah, not that impressive. And have you played it? The game stinks. But it has craploads of players and makes piles of money.