losing money on vendor fees

[FrejaSP]

I would like to see more vendors away from npc towns and moongates. This won't happen as long vendor fee is too high as desert vendors don't sell as fast as the town and moongate vendors.

Now we start with 60 gp and add 3 gp for each 500gp charge on vendor

That's for items at:
0-499 = free
500 = 3 gp a day, 21gp a week, 90 gp a month
5.000 = 30 gp a day, 210gp a week, 900 gp a month
50.000 = 300 gp a day, 2.100gp a week, 9.000 gp a month
500.000 = 3.000 gp a day, 21.000gp a week, 90.000 gp a month
5.000.000 = 30.000 gp a day, 210.000gp a week, 900.000 gp a month

I think the problem is, when it take long time to sell the item.
What about setting a cap so the fee max can be for 7 days or
after 7 days on vendor, that item will cost 1 gp for each 500gp charge

After a week, the fee would drop to:
0-499 = free
500 = 1 gp a day, 7 gp a week, 30gp a month
5.000 = 10 gp a day, 70gp a week, 300 gp a month
50.000 = 100 gp a day, 700gp a week, 3.000 gp a month
500.000 = 1.000 gp a day, 7.000gp a week, 30.000 gp a month
5.000.000 = 10.000 gp a day, 7.000gp a week, 300.000 gp a month

That would make it more fair for vendors away from town.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

no because that barely covers half the issue, and the VDP is so low vendor fees may as well just be turned off in that case.

the CURRENT VDP is horrible outdated, no? that's why I said "updated to year 2012" not 1998.
An earlier quote was:
"...Change the VDP price amounts to reflect a multiplier of the Point amount that would be received, had the object been dropped in the trash. Multiplier amount can always be adjusted later to reflect the economy."
I'll add, if it doesn't give points, free (similar to loss leader items sold in stores).

 

[Sevin0oo0]

for those that don't want change... if you're in a guard zone, the fee remains unchanged?

 

[FrejaSP]

It sure should cost more to have vendors in/near guard zone. Now that may not matter on Trammel facets, but I'm sure it do on Siege and in Felucca.

 

[TullyMars]

no because that barely covers half the issue, and the VDP is so low vendor fees may as well just be turned off in that case.

Yeah the vendor determined price is actually such screwy legacy code that I would not trust it.
Perhaps the code to determine insurance rates could be used.

But I think, staying in the framework of the current vendor schema is going to be flawed no matter what tweak.
And with devs always looking for a gold sink,
Chances are they don't see that well stocked crafter based vendors are good for the UO community.
They also probably don't see how vendor fees can discourage this exact thing.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Gonna throw a couple of 'what ifs' in here.

What if vendors on player houses were stopped - and instead players could hire a vendor in any town - utilising currently empty warehouse buildings etc. Not sure how vendor's fees would be worked out.
Crafted, non magical goods would be priced based on vdp ( something like vpd x 10? 20?)
Magical armor/weapons/jewellery and non-crafted goods such as decor would be priced by the player.
If your vendor has nothing to sell he sends your gold to the bank, minus an additional fee, and quits - advertising himself available for hire.
You may avoid this additional fee by dismissing him yourself if you have nothing further to sell.
All players, new and old, would be able to find your goods, there'd be no vendors full of empty bags.

It's a bit rough, needs work and brainstorming - but maybe?

 

[FrejaSP]

I would say, well stocked crafter based vendors are good for EA too as it will draw more players, not only the crafters but also PvM'er og PvP'er, who will know where to get what they need. Nothing is worse than using alot time browsing vendors without finding what you need.
I only stock cheap imbued suit, not the maxed out ones, as I can't affort them to hang a few weeks on the vendor until the right buyer comes by. Also I could sell them cheaper if I should not include the loose to vendor fee.

 

[FrejaSP]

Gonna throw a couple of 'what ifs' in here.

What if vendors on player houses were stopped - and instead players could hire a vendor in any town - utilising currently empty warehouse buildings etc. Not sure how vendor's fees would be worked out.
Crafted, non magical goods would be priced based on vdp ( something like vpd x 10? 20?)
Magical armor/weapons/jewellery and non-crafted goods such as decor would be priced by the player.
If your vendor has nothing to sell he sends your gold to the bank, minus an additional fee, and quits - advertising himself available for hire.
You may avoid this additional fee by dismissing him yourself if you have nothing further to sell.
All players, new and old, would be able to find your goods, there'd be no vendors full of empty bags.

It's a bit rough, needs work and brainstorming - but maybe?

I like that too but I really wish to see the vendors back in the player towns too, that's why I would like to see less fee away from town or if the item not sell in a week.
On normal shards, npc vendors do buy crafted items, all they need to do is to fix the prices so they will pay a ok price for a crafter and resell them to a price a little more expensive than on player vendors.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

What if vendors on player houses were stopped - and instead players could hire a vendor in any town

I like that too. Loses bad "location". "No SPAWN". I have runes to several buildings in Trinsic, completely empty upper floors - or floors could be added. Could place a central recall/marking zone for equal access. Makes Every city a "Luna". Your contract is with the Devs, instead of a player variable. Makes towns popular again. *likes*

 

[Sauteed Onion]

Well, you'd have to consider some people that like to just make stuff in their house, and then turn around and put that stuff right on a vendor in their house. Mostly ease of access too, no making at your house with all your materials in boxes right by your forges/soulforges/spinning wheels and looms etc.. then teleporting to town, then making trips back and forth. perhaps maybe knocking down the maximum limit of vendors per house to coincide with putting in those ideas. honestly I'm not totally for messing with current house/vendor situation, but I am for expanding upon what's already there meow. But I do like the attraction to certain cities that have long been abandoned..

 

[Lord Nabin]

It sure should cost more to have vendors in/near guard zone. Now that may not matter on Trammel facets, but I'm sure it do on Siege and in Felucca.

That really is a function of Housing cost on the open market not what you should pay in fees for a vendor.

Location Location Location.

If you are in the Desert and some outlying area then you have to work harder to drive traffic to your location. That is simple common sense.

Obviously if crafting and merchant was your primary Game Play you would be stepping up to either buy a house in a better location or marketing your location around your shard.

 

[FrejaSP]

Oh I do have a house in a good loocation with shopping safe from the inner wall of Luna but I rather so them burn Luna, Zento and New Magincia, at least on Siege. Before this towns, the vendor shops was at the player towns.

 

[Raptor85]

That really is a function of Housing cost on the open market not what you should pay in fees for a vendor.

Location Location Location.

If you are in the Desert and some outlying area then you have to work harder to drive traffic to your location. That is simple common sense.

Obviously if crafting and merchant was your primary Game Play you would be stepping up to either buy a house in a better location or marketing your location around your shard.

that only works for specific types of items, and only then if you are online a LOT. (as in...better quit your day job) for commodities and such players will not go out of their way regularly, even if it is cheaper, thus why it would be nice to be able to keep a vendor stocked so when people DO come by there is stuff to sell. If i have to be online at the time for people to come browse my vendors I'll just skip the fees entirely and sell to people what they're looking for in town.

Even that said, my vendors are in new mag, and not only in new mag but in what is arguably the most popular vendor house on the shard! My old crafting ones even though priced barely abuve break-even I could only put 1-2 items on the vendors at a time otherwise they would operate at a loss! (If i set the prices higher i lost more vendor fees and nobody would buy at that price). I don't play daily so when my 1 suit of armor on my vendor would sell out, which could be in a day or in a week, my vendor will then sit empty until the next time I check it. (and mine was not the only one like this, it's brutally hard to find stuff like armor vendors now due to vendor fees eating away any potential profit from it).

See the problem with the vendor fees like this is not only how much of your gold it eats up making many items not worth vendoring, but also that you can't keep stock on vendors without the gold cost being so high your gold income is so low you're lucky if you're breaking even on the vendors. (talking with other players who have vendors as well, many of them have said before they pretty much only get cost back on most of the crafted goods vendors, so those that do stock them stock them pretty much do it just to keep their shop stocked, they make no gold on it)

 

[FrejaSP]

Only one of my vendors really make money for me and only because I don't buy my resources for my imbuing. If I should imbue suits and jewelry with better mods, I would have to buy some of the more expensive resources and my profit would be eat up of vendor fee. The other vendors do make some profit but I could farm the money many time faster.

 

[hen]

Gonna throw a couple of 'what ifs' in here.

What if vendors on player houses were stopped - and instead players could hire a vendor in any town - utilising currently empty warehouse buildings etc. Not sure how vendor's fees would be worked out.
Crafted, non magical goods would be priced based on vdp ( something like vpd x 10? 20?)
Magical armor/weapons/jewellery and non-crafted goods such as decor would be priced by the player.
If your vendor has nothing to sell he sends your gold to the bank, minus an additional fee, and quits - advertising himself available for hire.
You may avoid this additional fee by dismissing him yourself if you have nothing further to sell.
All players, new and old, would be able to find your goods, there'd be no vendors full of empty bags.

It's a bit rough, needs work and brainstorming - but maybe?

So no more player shops? No thanks.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

consider some people that like to just make stuff in their house, and then turn around and put that stuff right on a vendor in their house. Mostly ease of access

Exactly, One thing the Devs are good at is NOT deleting parts of the game, finding ways to add to, not take away. I'd say use both - could have different fee scales, home or town?

 

[Petra Fyde]

So maybe it wasn't a very good idea after all.
It was somewhat influenced by an icq conversation I happened to be having at the same time regarding getting trade to shops that weren't in specific areas.

 

[NuSair]

Silly - I don't sell rares on vendors and tons of high end artifacts.

Most of what is on my vendors are normal deco Items, deeds, resources, toos, Repair deeds, recalls, potions Duhh the normal stuff.

Instead of staying "It's amazing how people have such a narrow view of this." Try saying " I tend to assume a lot and very often stick my foot in my mouth because I really have no idea what I am talking about"



That all being said. I still like ya a lot and like yours posts often enough.

If I was incorrect in my assumption, I do apologize. It seemed a pretty safe one when you own the house right out of Luna gate to the south.

You do make gold off vendor fees?

 

[Sevin0oo0]

It's a bit rough, needs work and brainstorming

too late. What if we had Both? Home shops, plus a denser version of New Magincia?

 

[Raptor85]

Exactly, One thing the Devs are good at is NOT deleting parts of the game, finding ways to add to, not take away. I'd say use both - could have different fee scales, home or town?

TBH I like our vendor system in UO, the only huge thing broken about it right now is the fees. (though honestly the vendors could use a better system for pricing items, putting up for sale....like the system being set to remember prices for certain item types, but that's another issue...)


Not in reply to Sevin but using the numbers at the top of this page I thought i'd post an example of why I took my crafting vendors down, I mostly sold midrange to high end suits of armor, the midrange ones (basic 70's suits with MR and hp/int+) i sold for 75k, priced any higher they don't sell at all, people will just use the cheaper armor with worse stats. Of that 75k, quite a bit of the cost is the imbue mats, all those gems really add up on even the non-relic imbues on a suit like this, so they generally cost me about 60k to craft buying all the mats (it doesn't help that they cost 3x more on siege than on other shards...i mean we're talking almost 500 gold PER DIAMOND and barbed leather runs about 150 per). They averaged selling about one every week/week and a half, not a "hot" seller but then people don't lose their armor terribly often, but when they do they need a new suit!

Now I'm only making 15k gold per suit in the first place and they do take a good chunk of time to craft. Frankly thought that would be fine if i could craft a few and put them on my vendors....but with the current system you CANT. Selling only one I lose about 4k of the 15k to vendor fees, if i were to stock two, I lose 8k of vendor fees on the first one, 4k on the second (at their rate of sale averaged)...any more than two suits on the vendor and it operates at a LOSS, so to prevent that you basicly have to OCD check the vendor morning and night daily..keep only one suit on at a time and put a new one up when it sells...because when the stock does run out if you dont restock before someone needs the armor, I lose that sale and often that person starts shopping elsewhere.

Even worse when I tried to stock higher end suits, with all the relics, seeds of renewal, and essences needed they cost about 400k in materials to craft (MR/LMC/LRC/70's/+stats/etc... mage suits) and considerable time, so I generally sold those mid-high ones about 500k. Those sell less often, one every 2-3 weeks if you're lucky, so even putting just one on the vendor that eats 70k of my 100k profit, so completely not worth the time to craft and sell like that, the last few suits like that I sold I pretty much dumped at cost to whoever wanted them as I was making next to nothing off of them. (and no, raising the price is not an option, higher and people won't buy at all on already somewhat high cost items like this..they'll wait till a crafter is on and order it directly). It suffered from the same problem as the cheaper armor vendor too but even worse, any more than ONE suit on the vendor at a time and it would sell at a loss.

I finally got fed up with it, i de-vendored all that stuff as the fees made it not worth selling...frankly the only way to make a profit off selling crafted items as it stands is to farm ALL the ingrediants yourself, and that is a huge time investment for little profit, so why bother, I could run out and kill someone and make 200-300k much faster, or on the PVM side I can just trot down to a spawn, solo it in 45 mins or so, get a backpack with 100k or so worth in sots, 6 scrolls which I can sell for 15k-100k per for the 110's/15's...or if i'm lucky 300k - 6m for the 120's, AND a guaranteed 250k gold to top it off....spawns are kinda boring when you've done them enough though, especially when you're running solo :/

 

[FrejaSP]

I hope, if we keep getting more players on Siege it may help, I sell (Lrc 100, 5x70, Luck 240) for 54k, (100 LRC, 540 luck, 5x70) or (LRC100, MR6, 5x70) for 79k, (Luck 540, MR6, HPR6 5x70) for 129k. I refuse to sell them cheaper,
Sometimes someone buy almost all suit, then thete can go a week or two without any sale

 

[Sauteed Onion]

I think there is a lot of depth in just the simplicity alone. And what I mean by that, is as it stands, Ultima Oline really does have a diverse and cool system. It could use some modifying and expanding upon it to make it "the best". One thing is having a function akin to a site out there that I won't put in here because I think it breaks a lot of rules right there on the front page hehe. But it's function is awesome, you choose your server, and type in what you're looking for and then boom a read out of who's selling it and at what price. having that in some way implemented in the game, keeps you, you know in the game. Having craft specific vendors in good looking buildings in town, set up to sell off craft related wares, that you pay an upfront cost to, could help. These little things seem so minor, and alone they are, but together it builds up and almost could be another "essential" pillar of the community that helps not only bring people together, but is just generally profitable for all parties included. I love my house, and I love that I can toss some vendors up in it, but I also love my house the way it is, without a vendor area in it; so I have a luna vendor.

Like, I'd love to be able to sell stone/wood furniture, at affordable prices, but I would not like to pay 60 gold a day doing it, when I know by and large it's not going to be profitable to do it. There may be people who have that working successfully for them, but those vendors are few and far between, even on atlantic, which is arguably the most hoppin shard at the moment. (And most people won't argue that).

But, even though I have no vendors at this time in my house, I'd be kinda torqued that I lost the ability to put them up, and maybe even irked a bit that the amount of vendors I could put up was messed with, but I could live with it, especially if it meant, we could get specific type vendors that could peddle crafting tools, for new players which are exceptional, nice deco items that are crafted.. etc. And it'd be awesome if there was a tab we could hit that gave us a readout similar to the site which I was talkin about but will not link to meow.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I One thing is having a function akin to a site out there that I won't put in here because ...meow

another thought. Thinking how that site works, and its limitations. Extremely easy when they're clustered, like Luna. Would a search be easier, tile by tile looking to see if there was a vendor over all of UO, or just hit a few virtue towns where they're all in small groups? I don't think we'll come close to getting an in-game search until they're narrowed down.

of course I also think new mag house owners should receive a cut on sales from all those vendors. I go there a lot, just passing thru, I Run, the stench from those animal pens, just ugh

 

[Raptor85]

another thought. Thinking how that site works, and its limitations. Extremely easy when they're clustered, like Luna. Would a search be easier, tile by tile looking to see if there was a vendor over all of UO, or just hit a few virtue towns where they're all in small groups? I don't think we'll come close to getting an in-game search until they're narrowed down.

of course I also think new mag house owners should receive a cut on sales from all those vendors. I go there a lot, just passing thru, I Run, the stench from those animal pens, just ugh

If EA did it they wouldn't need to do a search like that, it's already in their database, they can just query for an accurate list of what's on each vendor, their names and locations. That said though I'm iffy on that idea, with all vendors listed in a central area it would be super easy to price fix the system (though not AS easy as with a central auction house) which can cause some additional inflation of prices, and those numbers are shocking enough for new people as it is.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

With the current sites in use, it's kinda already fixed. Fixed, to me, means stabilized. Also promotes competition. This could also allow non-house owners to have a vendor or 2, on the cheap.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

or expand the Bizarre to other cities, with a few rate changes

 

[Sauteed Onion]

If EA did it they wouldn't need to do a search like that, it's already in their database, they can just query for an accurate list of what's on each vendor, their names and locations. That said though I'm iffy on that idea, with all vendors listed in a central area it would be super easy to price fix the system (though not AS easy as with a central auction house) which can cause some additional inflation of prices, and those numbers are shocking enough for new people as it is.

A foresight I didn't take into consideration meow.

 

[Raptor85]

With the current sites in use, it's kinda already fixed. Fixed, to me, means stabilized. Also promotes competition. This could also allow non-house owners to have a vendor or 2, on the cheap.

By price fixing I mean buying out cheaper vendors and purposefully holding back stock to drive the price up and make more profit per sale, if you have the gold to do it you can rake in MASSIVE quantities and significantly change prices on something for an entire shard, i've seen (and...er..participated in) this in other mmo's, holding back stuff from market it doesnt take long until people are willing to pay 2-3x the old price due to short supply, with a low population it would be even easier to do than in those games.

The reason those "sites" don't do it too badly yet at this point is they mostly only cover luna houses, not on every shard, and a few other houses where the owner actually registered themself with the site. Those running those vendors already know that their prices are abnormally high to begin with, and that there's places to buy the stuff cheaper, but the second they're searcheable rest assured "luna prices" will equilize as the "normal" price for items on the shard.

 

[TullyMars]

So maybe it wasn't a very good idea after all.
It was somewhat influenced by an icq conversation I happened to be having at the same time regarding getting trade to shops that weren't in specific areas.

Lol, no right answers nor wrong answers here, Petra. I think we have a good give and take on ideas here and we are just brainstorming in purely theory.
I do like (actually love) the vendor disappearing when it has nothing left to sell. (one of my pet peeves is when a vendor is unstocked for 3 months or more)

Here are some questions to consider.

Do vendor fees discourage extra "storage"?
Should we even consider people using vendors as storage as a negative anymore?
Are vendor fees a good gold sink still?
What about the initial price for a vendor? Perhaps that initial price can be tweaked instead of vendor fees?
Does VDP need to be tweaked?
Could vendor fees be based upon the difference between VDP and and what the person is actually charging?


P.S.
Actually having fun in this thread even though as a I realist I believe the conversation to be purely academic and will not effect any changes.
I would love to get some coordinates/facet/shard of shops of examples of good vendors that fall into the OP definition.

 

[Petra Fyde]

actually, while I was typing it you posted the idea that insurance values be used instead of vdp, which might be workable.

 

[FrejaSP]

By price fixing I mean buying out cheaper vendors and purposefully holding back stock to drive the price up and make more profit per sale,...

Yes but with Markers Mark, you will have a problem. All can see what you are doing when Markers mark on your wares is not yours

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I purposefully sell lower Just so some can resold, fine with me, shoppers could have come here first. I would agree that Yes, houses, items, vendor name and contents, All held in the Database, but as Data only. You've heard the term "hooks into the game" or rather a 'lack of', means turning 'data' into information; dungeon access numbers, etc.,otherwise, it's just reading 0's and 1's off a hard drive. If they had it in a manageable, useful form, it could be used for account restore, rubble restore, character deletion restore, stuff like that. I think they don't because they can't. We've seen in a transfer that every item has an id, they could check for duplicates?
Back to the points, I don't think anyone would argue that "Luna prices" will equalize as the "normal" price for items on the shard is a bad thing.
Yeah, this stuff is all for fun, but if an idea becomes sound, doable, and attractive enough, it might get into the game. that's all we hope for anyways. I think Devs do give more preference to popular ideas, like she said, they work for us.

 

[Raptor85]

Yes but with Markers Mark, you will have a problem. All can see what you are doing when Markers mark on your wares is not yours

It doesn't need to be hidden that you're doing it, the entire point is to dry out all cheaper vendors before you start. I did it in WoW in the very short time I played it, I had so much gold by the time I was level 30 I could pretty much just buy anything I wanted whenever I wanted, and It was pretty obvious what I was doing if you ran a search in the auction house Doesn't matter though because when you're the "cheapest" source in a system like that people naturally buy from you either way. (I freely admit, taking full control over the sales of a few low level commodities on the server I was on was probably the most fun I had in that boring game...the end effect though was even after I stopped the price had "settled" at my price as everyone else started seeing my price as average, effectively doubling the price for....I think it was like...wind and fire element things (i forget what they're called) on the server from that point forward. (And I'm sure I'm not the only one who ever thought to try that)

 

[Raptor85]

I purposefully sell lower Just so some can resold, fine with me, shoppers could have come here first. I would agree that Yes, houses, items, vendor name and contents, All held in the Database, but as Data only. You've heard the term "hooks into the game" or rather a 'lack of', means turning 'data' into information; dungeon access numbers, etc.,otherwise, it's just reading 0's and 1's off a hard drive. If they had it in a manageable, useful form, it could be used for account restore, rubble restore, character deletion restore, stuff like that. I think they don't because they can't. We've seen in a transfer that every item has an id, they could check for duplicates?

They could very easily restore accounts and characters, they DID restore rubble in some cases. They choose not to as it requires additional GM training and GM time spent helping players, which to EA is $$. They have the source code to the server in front of them...they add items all the time, they obviously know how the item/character system works, those 1's and 0's are in some sort of structured format that's computer readable....else we would not have items/characters in the game. If they don't have devs that can figure out how to read their own files, get new ones that stayed awake in their data structures & intro to programming classes, because with the source in front of you it's a simple matter. In my previous job I often had to figure out how to read and write from old proprietary databases, many one-off products from companies that only existed for a year or two before going under, without any documentation or source to go off of, frankly it's just not all that hard to do (though you would be amazed how often companies are so "attached" to using some crappy old piece of software everyone hates and doesn't really work that they decide they want a web front end for it...)....and they have the source, full blueprints to how the data is stored sitting in front of them so they don't even have to sit and figure out how it's being stored first!

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I'll agree w/ that. I think it was Jeff that stated about not having certain hooks in the game and wished they did, guess i have to give him a -1 instead of + for some of that.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

I think the game should be designed around mini games. Make a game out of everything. Think about the problem. What do you think the main problem is? To me, the main problem would be, that no one is buying anything.

So, let's put 2 vendors beside each other. What happens when someone buys something off the one vendor but doesn't buy something off the other. The one vendor makes money and the other vendor loses money. This is unfair to the person who is losing money.

Now, let's look at both vendors as being identical. It doesn't really matter because you're still going to have the same scenario. When the buyer comes up, he's going to choose a vendor, one will make money and one will lose money. Again, it's the same problem. No one bought anything. So, the simple solution is, to have someone buy something.

Now, looking at the vendor system as a game, is important because some people are enjoying it and having fun. For example: They will build a skill and they will make potions and then they will put their potions on their vendor and they'll wait to see how many potions sell. Now, if all the potions sell then this becomes a game, there's demand which gives the player something to do. It gives their skill meaning. It gives their time meaning and it gives them a sense of pride.

But what about the person who hasn't sold anything? Well, you would see the opposite. Now, build a scenario where everyone in the game uses the same skill and with this skill everybody makes the same thing and now everyone tries to sell the same item. This is a huge problem. First of all you don't need to buy what you already have. Second, there is no reason for you to make or sell those items. So, there's no reason for you to use that skill.

Now, if there was a buyer, on the other hand, then everyone could be happy. So, what I would suggest is to create a buyer where the system itself will buy items from the vendors. Now, think about this for a second. I get on the game and go hunting, I go do Miamasa for 2 hours. I make so much money but that's not true with the vending system. Would it be that terrible if the time spent making potions, somehow earned you money?

So, it's just a different form of game play. So, there's alot of ways you could set up what items would be purchased. For example: Let's say the system checks every vendor in the game. If an item has been purchased off a vendor already, it will pass that vendor but if there is an item that has been there for 2 or 3 days and it's under 1 million, the system may purchase it.

So, now when the player comes on and looks at their vendor, they say, Oh I have to make potions because someone is buying potions but that's basically the problem, there's no buyer, so there's no productivity and the economy is slanted towards high end items. It's really ashame when you think about it because alot of the skills could never produce the kind of money a rare could, for example.

So, you could actually list different items that would be purchased. Also, alot of people use the vendors to hold items. For example: A miner might have 100 pick axes. Some of the problem is that, the uses are to low. No one has room to store thousands of tools but even if these items sold, it wouldn't be that bad because you would be earning money and you might see people who actually stop using them for storage so much and who actually set up shops.

 

[NuSair]

If EA did it they wouldn't need to do a search like that, it's already in their database, they can just query for an accurate list of what's on each vendor, their names and locations. That said though I'm iffy on that idea, with all vendors listed in a central area it would be super easy to price fix the system (though not AS easy as with a central auction house) which can cause some additional inflation of prices, and those numbers are shocking enough for new people as it is.

You are assuming that all that data is in a data base. Given the comments devs have made over the years have lead me to believe that all that information is in flat files and no in a data base. Which would explain how people can get away with things like pieces of armor with insane resist or items with 100 LRC. It would be a simple check in a database to catch something like that.

 

[Raptor85]

You are assuming that all that data is in a data base. Given the comments devs have made over the years have lead me to believe that all that information is in flat files and no in a data base. Which would explain how people can get away with things like pieces of armor with insane resist or items with 100 LRC. It would be a simple check in a database to catch something like that.

I was using database as a general term, not only as a reference to a SQL server like oracle or postgre. It makes no difference if it's in a flat file, SQL queryable database, dbase server, giant excel spreadsheet, or stack of punchcards is an automatic feed machine, they have access to read it and they have the definition of the stoarage format right in front of them, heck they could even get clever and write a ODBC driver for it so they could query the flat file as if it was a SQL database if they REALLY wanted to.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

First 7 days on vendor, the item fee will cost 3 gp for each 500gp charge
That's for items at:
0-499 = free
500 = 3 gp a day, (21gp a week, 90 gp a month)
5.000 = 30 gp a day, (210gp a week, 900 gp a month)
50.000 = 300 gp a day, (2.100gp a week, 9.000 gp a month)
500.000 = 3.000 gp a day, (21.000gp a week, 90.000 gp a month)
5.000.000 = 30.000 gp a day, (210.000gp a week, 900.000 gp a month)

After 7 days on vendor, that item will cost 1 gp for each 500gp charge
After a week, the fee would drop to:
0-499 = free
500 = 1 gp a day, (7 gp a week, 30gp a month)
5.000 = 10 gp a day, (70gp a week, 300 gp a month)
50.000 = 100 gp a day, (700gp a week, 3.000 gp a month)
500.000 = 1.000 gp a day, (7.000gp a week, 30.000 gp a month)
5.000.000 = 10.000 gp a day, (7.000gp a week, 300.000 gp a month)

(The first 7 days = Current Pricing)
This sounds like a Fair and Reasonable method. When Items don't sell IRL,they get moved out of the prime display area and to a cheaper part of the store, sometimes to a discount building where overhead is lower. It's the vendor's JOB to sell the items, if it can't be done in a timely manner, less fee should be paid.

Two other issues and my thoughts on losing money:
1. Those that skirt the clock looking to cheat the vendor.
After the initial "re-Pricing period", the amount is collected, in advance, in 8hr increments. Make this "period" 5-10 mins.
2. Those that *oops*, misprice an item, getting stuck with a vendor penalty.
A lower price resets the clock

 

[NuSair]

I was using database as a general term, not only as a reference to a SQL server like oracle or postgre. It makes no difference if it's in a flat file, SQL queryable database, dbase server, giant excel spreadsheet, or stack of punchcards is an automatic feed machine, they have access to read it and they have the definition of the stoarage format right in front of them, heck they could even get clever and write a ODBC driver for it so they could query the flat file as if it was a SQL database if they REALLY wanted to.

They COULD..... but given the fact that there are armor pieces that have really insane resist, things with 100 LRC, ect- it shows they don't or really don't care about such.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

(The first 7 days = Current Pricing)
This sounds like a Fair and Reasonable method. When Items don't sell IRL,they get moved out of the prime display area and to a cheaper part of the store, sometimes to a discount building where overhead is lower. It's the vendor's JOB to sell the items, if it can't be done in a timely manner, less fee should be paid.

Two other issues and my thoughts on losing money:
1. Those that skirt the clock looking to cheat the vendor.
After the initial "re-Pricing period", the amount is collected, in advance, in 8hr increments. Make this "period" 5-10 mins.
2. Those that *oops*, misprice an item, getting stuck with a vendor penalty.
A lower price resets the clock

It's a good start but the problem in a game is that when you go out of business it's end game. When you go out of business in the real world, someone else takes over that shop, someone else moves in and sells something different. In UO there isn't anything different, it's all the same. Even in the real world there isn't alot of different things but there's more so than UO and if you look at the basic skills and what they produce as the category, then you're looking more at how many players a system can support rather than what the items cost.

So, even with this pricing scale, you're going to have the same problem, it's just going to take longer and if we look at the problem as being time, then what happens is the current system already allows for like 5 years or so, on a minimum of GP, that is being used on a percentage of pricing.

I'm not sure what that amount is, off hand but let's say 1 million. Now, if your focus is on the high end items, then you're not really fixing anything because people could just sell that item without using a vendor. The vending system, in my opinion, should be for items that are under 1 million. Once you break that threshold, you should be taxed into oblivion so that those items don't show up on vendors, killing the economy.

For example: I can imbue a beautiful suit of armour and weapon, shield and if the Devs ever get around to it, a sash, cloak and then I can sell those items at the high end, for under 1 million and still make a profit. So, when you look at the skill system and the vending system, you're tieing it into the economy and the reason for it is to give skills use. It's not meant to make people rich. There is no fun in being rich. It removes everything that is human and makes life very complicated for individuals. In a game, it makes it pointless.

One of the interesting things that happens with money, is that the rich person no longer needs money. So, then you ask yourself why the rich want more money. Well, because money equals power. So, they don't want money, they want power. You have to remember that money is an allusion. It's only something that is used to control other people. For example: If I had alot of money, I could control any number of people and pay them to do something and it would be legal.

So, when you look at the game and it's economy, you have to ask yourself what that power is doing and I think in the case of UO, alot of the problem is, high prices. This affect comes from wanting more power. It's an increase that happens not because something has more value but because people are willing to pay that much for it.

 

[FrejaSP]

I think my main problem is to few players to buy my wares. A little more players on Siege -> more PvP actions -> more will need a new suit

 

[MagicStar]

Theres a vendor in luna atlantic that sells abyssal cloth
It also has single clean bandages (must be a rare?) at 100 mil each
I think theres over 20 of em
My questions are
1 how much to keep that vendor up?
2 why they cost so much
3 who in their right mind will buy them????
4 and last im curious how much the most expensive vendors charge per day?
I have about 50 vendors and i stocked them pretty well and im paying 136k a day
Never been higher than 200k a day in total

 

[Lord Nabin]

Theres a vendor in luna atlantic that sells abyssal cloth
It also has single clean bandages (must be a rare?) at 100 mil each
I think theres over 20 of em
My questions are
1 how much to keep that vendor up?
2 why they cost so much
3 who in their right mind will buy them????
4 and last im curious how much the most expensive vendors charge per day?
I have about 50 vendors and i stocked them pretty well and im paying 136k a day
Never been higher than 200k a day in total

They are probably just transferring gold around from one place to another. That being said a vendor only holds 2 billion so over 20 bandages for sale that would be useless.

 

[MagicStar]

They are probably just transferring gold around from one place to another. That being said a vendor only holds 2 billion so over 20 bandages for sale that would be useless.

i just went and checked and the bandages are gone i guess youre right
just wierd cause they were placed all nice and were there a few hours

 

[Lord Nabin]

Happens

 

[Tanivar]

One really good trick for selling at vendors outside of Luna is to sell merchandise people want at prices they are willing to pay.

Luna(tic) prices are often way to high. But consider the shop fee is typically 100,000 gold a month for each vendor. The seller has to make enough to pay the overhead he has between the shop fee and the vendor fees.

If the Devs did make offical vendor locations it would help a lot of Players by lowering or eliminating that 100,000 gold per month expense and make Player's venders easy to shop at.. If the vendor at the Offical Vendor Shop dumped it's gold to the vendor renter's bankbox when it got empty and quit, it would also avoid the possible hassle of having somebody rent a vendor from you, dumping a 100 million gold into it, then let it sit empty. You don't dare change the contract so the vendor falls due to always being empty because if there is megatons of gold being stored on the vendor, you, not the renter, get buried in hassle.

I've set up a house next door to my place that could handle 66 vendors that I could rent many of. Make it so any empty vendor that falls because I ended the contract, dumps all gold into the renters bankbox and not my shops sign, storage, or bankbox, so that *they* have to deal with it, not me, and I'll set up a 18x18 vendor mall right by a landmark the following week.

Had it set up this morning, ready to go, then thought of where falling vendors dump thier contents. That plan changed very quickly. It'll now just be my vendors and more gardening space.

 

[Tanivar]

But what about the person who hasn't sold anything? Well, you would see the opposite. Now, build a scenario where everyone in the game uses the same skill and with this skill everybody makes the same thing and now everyone tries to sell the same item. This is a huge problem. First of all you don't need to buy what you already have. Second, there is no reason for you to make or sell those items. So, there's no reason for you to use that skill.

.

I've always played a Forager/Crafter type. The reason I can make money doing it is because many Players don't want to spend thier available playtime gathering materials and making things they need themselves. They'd rather pay someone else to do it. PvPers want to PvP, PvM hunters want to hunt big bad monsters. I like to make things.

You play on Chessie and would rather go have fun hunting where Bad Things play and leave the makework b.s. to someone else? Come see me. The yellow marble house just over the bridge south of Luna. I charge about 20% labor over materials I supply. I'm sure we can make a deal.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

If the Devs did make official vendor locations it would help a lot of Players

With weight restrictions removed, along with increased item count per vendor, a zillion vendors would not be needed.

Expand New Mag vendors to more cities with increase density, and having a lowered fee structure.

 

[Lord Nabin]

I like the vendor system as it is.

Part of the fun is finding that vendor house out in the middle of the forest that does a great job. Makes the game real and it's part of the sandbox.