Leurocian - Mistakes in game design 101

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>



One thing I hope happens is the make recalling (and above skill based).
How?
Well let me tell you.

Skill of 0 - 45.... recall or sacred to open spaces in same land
Skill of 45 -65... recall or sacred to 1st level of dungeons and other lands
Skill of 65 -85... recall to other levels of dungeon but not bottom
Skill of 85 and above recall anywhere, including bottom of dungeons.

Of course the failure rate for the lower places decreases to no fail as you go up.

Gate would be similiar. But I guess thats a different thread.



[/ QUOTE ]

ARE U INSANE ????? so now only mages or paladines get to hunt in high level places ????

[/ QUOTE ]

Id love to see a change like this. And this change doesnt stop you from much really. You might have to walk a bit. But I fail to see how it stops you.
The recall to everywhere else but no where in ilsh is the perfect example of why its needed. Two extremes. They need to fix it.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is a horrible idea... because something similar is already in practice on one of our shards (siege)

With the changes to Bags of Sending... you spend 10-30 minutes running to the depths of a dungeon (maybe even longer depending on where in Ilsh you'd be) only to fight monsters for 5-10 minutes until your backpack is full of loot then have to run the entire distance back.

The land masses of UO have grown so huge that this just isn't possible.


Your idea wouldn't work and would cause more frustration and harm than any good.


BTW, nice way to derail the thread with a ridiculous idea that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. You win a cookie!

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

"you spend 10-30 minutes running to the depths of a dungeon (maybe even longer depending on where in Ilsh you'd be)"

You can be at the bottom of any dungeon in Ilsh in a matter of a few minutes. I've hunted everywhere in Ilsh, and not one single time, even when I fought my way through, did it EVER take 30 minutes. Hell, you could run all the way around Ilsh in 30 minutes, and probably do it several times at that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok... next time, type something worth reading. Why do all of your posts come off as knit picking the exact context of someones posts rather than understanding the point the poster is making?

The point I was making is that it takes a long time (as much if not more) to get to a lot of points of interest on the map only to have to turn back shortly after arriving because your backpack is full. Thus killing the desire to make that kind of a trip more often than once in a blue-moon.

nice attempt at spin tho...!

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

*taps foot awaiting a reply about there being no such thing as a moon that is literally blue.*

 

[Connor_Graham]

"The point I was making is that it takes a long time (as much if not more) to get to a lot of points of interest on the map"

And the point I was making is that this, and the previously quoted statement, are gross exaggerations. It takes at MOST 2-3 minutes tops to get anywhere in Ilsh. Once there, you don't have to leave until you're ready to leave, or until you get a beetle/packy load ready, whichever you prefer.

I know I don't, nor do any of the people I hunt with.

Oh and...

"knit picking"

That would be "NIT picking"....

 

[Connor_Graham]

<blockquote><hr>

*taps foot awaiting a reply about there being no such thing as a moon that is literally blue.*

[/ QUOTE ]

Seeing as I'm color blind I tend to stay away from color oriented converstaions.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

It takes at MOST 2-3 minutes tops to get anywhere in Ilsh. Once there, you don't have to leave until you're ready to leave, or until you get a beetle/packy load ready, whichever you prefer.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

 

[Connor_Graham]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

It takes at MOST 2-3 minutes tops to get anywhere in Ilsh. Once there, you don't have to leave until you're ready to leave, or until you get a beetle/packy load ready, whichever you prefer.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate? I hunt in Ilsh EVERY DAY. I know it quite well.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

It takes at MOST 2-3 minutes tops to get anywhere in Ilsh. Once there, you don't have to leave until you're ready to leave, or until you get a beetle/packy load ready, whichever you prefer.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure.

You are wrong.

 

[Connor_Graham]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

It takes at MOST 2-3 minutes tops to get anywhere in Ilsh. Once there, you don't have to leave until you're ready to leave, or until you get a beetle/packy load ready, whichever you prefer.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure.

You are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok Mr Monosyllable.

Prove it.

I know otherwise, so you'd better have some pretty damning evidence to the contrary.

 

[pallas]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

It takes at MOST 2-3 minutes tops to get anywhere in Ilsh. Once there, you don't have to leave until you're ready to leave, or until you get a beetle/packy load ready, whichever you prefer.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure.

You are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rain +1

Connor 0, as usual.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

It takes at MOST 2-3 minutes tops to get anywhere in Ilsh. Once there, you don't have to leave until you're ready to leave, or until you get a beetle/packy load ready, whichever you prefer.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure.

You are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Prove it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure.

Ask anyone on Siege how they like hunting in Ilshenar post-BoS changes... since we already deal with this scenario.

Now go-away or try actually contributing something of substance to the discussion.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"Ask anyone on Siege how they like hunting in Ilshenar post-BoS changes"

What does that have to do with the point that it only takes 2-3 minutes to get anywhere in Ilsh and that your statement (both times) was a gross exaggeration?

Try to stick with the point here. Personal opinion of the BoS changes has nothing to do with it. Obviously our personal opinions on the matter are different.

 

[Connor_Graham]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

It takes at MOST 2-3 minutes tops to get anywhere in Ilsh. Once there, you don't have to leave until you're ready to leave, or until you get a beetle/packy load ready, whichever you prefer.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure.

You are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rain +1

Connor 0, as usual.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he'd stuck with my point that "might" be the case, but since he didn't, I guess that makes you wrong too.

Connor +2
Pallas 0 (as usual)

 

[Guest]

Conner:
You and I do one of the same types of business of business transactions in Ish.
I know that it takes me 20 minutes from start to finish, including the interactions and purchases.
That 20 minutes also includes killing all high profile MOB’s in my path, and I literally run from one end of Ish hitting all 8 of the same spawn locations that you hit.

Now for MOB hunting I sometimes do the Golems, the Ratmen archers (Hides and Arrows), the Succubus, the Centaurs (Hides and Arrows), the Jukas, Swoops and a few other spawn spots.
It takes me less then 3 minutes to reach any spot in Ish I want to go to, and in the case of the Ratmen, the bank is right next to them, so I can be there an hour.

For Centaurs and Swoops I take a packy and can be there an hour.
An hour being my boredom limit, no other factor stops me from staying longer.

I suspect that you and I rack up the most time in Ish by far of all of the folks in this thread, me making my run three times a day + the MOB hunting, so I suspect that “thought process” was not a good application in this case, and practical experience is.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

"Ask anyone on Siege how they like hunting in Ilshenar post-BoS changes"

What does that have to do with the point that it only takes 2-3 minutes to get anywhere in Ilsh and that your statement (both times) was a gross exaggeration?

Try to stick with the point here. Personal opinion of the BoS changes has nothing to do with it. Obviously our personal opinions on the matter are different.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude... your wrong. Now get over it and move along... I had the last word 4 posts ago.

2-3 minutes is a gross exaggeration. Without recalling/journey/gate... tell me how long it takes you to get from lets say... Britain to the bottom of Deceit and back again. Or even from Britain to lets say... the bottom of the terrathan keep. Or from Umbra to Luna.

You quibble over exaggeration?!?!? yet your such a freaking fool you can't even make a non-exaggerated statement your damn self.

Now be gone.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Reading this, I'm completely lost. How, precisely, is the pet ball some sort of defense against getting dismounted? And why should it be?

If a tamer wants to be armed and ready for battle, shouldn't they be travelling with their pets?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>



One thing I hope happens is the make recalling (and above skill based).
How?
Well let me tell you.

Skill of 0 - 45.... recall or sacred to open spaces in same land
Skill of 45 -65... recall or sacred to 1st level of dungeons and other lands
Skill of 65 -85... recall to other levels of dungeon but not bottom
Skill of 85 and above recall anywhere, including bottom of dungeons.

Of course the failure rate for the lower places decreases to no fail as you go up.

Gate would be similiar. But I guess thats a different thread.



[/ QUOTE ]

ARE U INSANE ????? so now only mages or paladines get to hunt in high level places ????

[/ QUOTE ]

Id love to see a change like this. And this change doesnt stop you from much really. You might have to walk a bit. But I fail to see how it stops you.
The recall to everywhere else but no where in ilsh is the perfect example of why its needed. Two extremes. They need to fix it.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is a horrible idea... because something similar is already in practice on one of our shards (siege)

With the changes to Bags of Sending... you spend 10-30 minutes running to the depths of a dungeon (maybe even longer depending on where in Ilsh you'd be) only to fight monsters for 5-10 minutes until your backpack is full of loot then have to run the entire distance back.

The land masses of UO have grown so huge that this just isn't possible.


Your idea wouldn't work and would cause more frustration and harm than any good.


BTW, nice way to derail the thread with a ridiculous idea that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. You win a cookie!

[/ QUOTE ]

I like cookies. And recalling out from a harder place to a lower place is easier within my idea.

If your in level 4 wherever... You could recall back to a bank easier.

This has to with getting there. And you can use bag of sending, cant you? It just costs you more. So if you are getting nice weapons then you can send them to your bank. Now if you talking about resource or gold farming then I again applaud the BOS changes.

Look at this way, it takes greater skill to pin-point a recall into a lower level then to recall out of a dungeon and hit an open area.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

<blockquote><hr>

It takes at MOST 2-3 minutes tops to get anywhere in Ilsh.

[/ QUOTE ]Your particular timing is as much an exaggeration as is 10-30 minutes. Sure, you could get to MOST places in Ilshenar in about 3 minutes. Not everywhere. There are many places that take significantly longer (5-7 minutes), and involve running a particular gauntlet of sorts to get there.
<blockquote><hr>

Once there, you don't have to leave until you're ready to leave, or until you get a beetle/packy load ready, whichever you prefer.

[/ QUOTE ]Here's what I *love* about you, Connor. The use of statements that no one can actually argue with successfully. OF COURSE no one has to leave until they're ready to leave. That's like saying no one has to die until their body is incapable of life, that the day doesn't have to end until it's night, and that everything that isn't affected by gravity is easily capable of flight.

However, let's consider a packy load. Are you serious? How, precisely, did you get your packy down to the particular destination alive and well? Where do you hunt? In the middle of the pixies? Because otherwise, that packy's dead.

A beetle. Sure, you could use a beetle for hunting. As long as you're able to clear out an area sufficiently well so that you can get on and off that thing. Of course, once you get it over a certain weight point, forget running, because all you're going to do is single step, and then lag-step for stamina if you happen to move your mouse a pixel outside of the set range for walking.

The fact is that stuff drops at a fairly high rate. Gold is always the easiest to send back, but now, that's pointless with the BOS changes. Hell, truthfully, they should have just done away with the BOS as an item sending unit, and made it gold only. That would have gone over significantly better than other options. Of course, if they made gold a mostly intangible -- like every other MMO out there -- we wouldn't have the duping issues we've had over the past 10 years (with gold... items would still be an issue).

<blockquote><hr>

I know I don't, nor do any of the people I hunt with.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm going to guess the term "broad stroke" means "woman having a heart attack" in your particular vernacular.

<blockquote><hr>

That would be "NIT picking"....

[/ QUOTE ]I wasn't aware you could spell that word without a "tw." Wasn't even aware an "n" was necessary.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"tell me how long it takes you to get from lets say... Britain to the bottom of Deceit and back again."

I do believe that I was specifically talking about Ilsh, and the comment you made regarding it.

*checks back*

Yep. That's exactly what I was referring to.


"yet your such a freaking fool "

Ah, but I must be the bigger person since I can debate without resorting to insults. It's well known that the person that resorts to insults in an attempt to make a point has already realized, whether consciously or subconsciously, that they've already lost.


"you can't even make a non-exaggerated statement your damn self"

I've been everywhere in Ilsh, and as I've already said, I hunt there every single day. I know how long it takes to get around.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"Your particular timing is as much an exaggeration as is 10-30 minutes"

Not at all. As I've already stated, I've hunted everywhere in Ilsh, and it takes at most 3 minutes to get anywhere.


"The use of statements that no one can actually argue with successfully."

Isn't that one of the key strategies in debating?

"However, let's consider a packy load. Are you serious? How, precisely, did you get your packy down to the particular destination alive and well?"

This method has been explained many times already.


"I wasn't aware you could spell that word without a "tw." Wasn't even aware an "n" was necessary. "

Once again, it's the people that have to resort to insults in an attempt to prove a point that have already lost the debate. It takes a bigger person NOT to insult someone. I guess that would be me in this instance.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I actually make that run every couple of hours, and I've gotten it down now to where it only takes me 15 minutes tops, including transactions. Normally it's around 10, but that all depends on how many transactions need to be made.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

<blockquote><hr>

Ah, but I must be the bigger person since I can debate without resorting to insults. It's well known that the person that resorts to insults in an attempt to make a point has already realized, whether consciously or subconsciously, that they've already lost.

[/ QUOTE ]Actually, that's a well known misconception. It's along the same lines as those who believe sarcasm is the weakest form of argument.

Just because someone uses an insult does not make their point invalid, and, in fact, resorting to the old, "I've won because you had to insult me," tactic is actually more implicit of defeat than that of having used the insult in the first place.

Truly being able to win an argument requires being able to swing with whatever your opponent tosses at you. Believe me, if insults were a sign of a lost argument, the British parliament -- and our own US Congress -- would never accomplish anything.

Of course, using that as a point might not further my own, but, I digress.

Oh. And your Latin is grammatically incorrect.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"Oh. And your Latin is grammatically incorrect."

I realize that. The phrase can't be correctly translated in the context it's meant to be, so the closest was used.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

"you can't even make a non-exaggerated statement your damn self"

I've been everywhere in Ilsh, and as I've already said, I hunt there every single day. I know how long it takes to get around.

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't believe you-you need more people!

 

[Connor_Graham]

Ya know.....you sure do age yourself with your posts.


*goes back to the adult discussions, you know, the ones where people can talk without insulting each other*

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

*goes back to the adult discussions, you know, the ones where people can talk without insulting each other*

[/ QUOTE ]

Take me with you... you know, the place where people don't make up false crap about me or who I am or what I do.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

<blockquote><hr>

"Oh. And your Latin is grammatically incorrect."

I realize that. The phrase can't be correctly translated in the context it's meant to be, so the closest was used.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm honestly scared to ask what context you mean it in then.

 

[Connor_Graham]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

"Oh. And your Latin is grammatically incorrect."

I realize that. The phrase can't be correctly translated in the context it's meant to be, so the closest was used.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm honestly scared to ask what context you mean it in then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Loosely put:

Lead them by the balls and their heart and mind will follow.

I've got quite a few others, but modern English &amp; the common slang doesn't translate well into Latin.

And it all started with trying to find the correct spelling for the phrase that translates:

If you want peace, prepare for war.

Sicmus pacis parabellum, or something along those lines, but I never did find anything to match it up with.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

<blockquote><hr>

Lead them by the balls and their heart and mind will follow.

I've got quite a few others, but modern English &amp; the common slang doesn't translate well into Latin.

[/ QUOTE ]That's what I thought you were shooting for.

All's good.

Me, my favorite Latin comes in three flavors...

Carpe diem.
Carpe noctem.

And my favorite...

Et cetera ad nauseum.

And I think you're looking for "Si vis pacem, para bellum."