Lack of Dev in Stratics during this fiasco

[Zosimus]

While there are a lot of things I liked about the Mythic of old, and not just the games or some of the personalities, both before and after the EA purchase, Mythic's infamous lack of communication about problems is something I had hoped was long since purged.

Especially in light of how much the Star Wars team is out there selling a game that won't be out for a few months at minimum.

Man I wish a player would show up at one of the BioWare events during PAX this week and talk to some of the BioWare PR people about this thing, because the Mythic PR people won't comment unless it's just to let us know when some fix is being installed.

I know that they are supposed to be one and the same - BioWare Mythic, but I'm sorry, I look at the PR for Star Wars, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, etc. and I look at the PR for UO, Camelot, and Warhammer, and it's like two different companies. One is promoting its products and engaging its customers, the other is doing an imitation of Baghdad Bob.

It's especially irritating when you have Mythic PR/community people inviting Warhammer players to meet-and-greets at breweries in Germany last week, but they won't take the time to talk to players of the three Mythic MMOs about problems. Yeah, nice, you're promoting a free game that is supposed to help Warhammer Online, but how about talking about your existing paying customers. At least those that are able to pay.

Before EA bought Mythic they were one hell of a company imo. They went to hell when EA bought them.

NCsoft/ArenaNet has been stealing the shows at the gamescon and will do so at Pax. EA does not have a chance against them especially since its ArenaNet's home field.

Plus you should expect the PR bs from Bioware staff there if any issue is brought up about the migration,double billing, and taxing issues. They are there more to promote not to bandaid this situation. Unless you have the whole community from UO representing themselves and overwhelming the staff of Bioware it's kind of a lost cause.

 

[Woodsman]

Before EA bought Mythic they were one hell of a company imo. They went to hell when EA bought them.

I'm just waiting for something bad to happen to BioWare

NCsoft/ArenaNet has been stealing the shows at the gamescon and will do so at Pax. EA does not have a chance against them especially since its ArenaNet's home field.

I had a pretty good laugh when I looked at the Pax schedule and saw that NCSoft is presenting a demo for one of their new games at the same time that BioWare is showing off the new Warhammer arena game. I wonder where the media is going to be?

Plus you should expect the PR bs from Bioware staff there if any issue is brought up about the migration,double billing, and taxing issues.

It'd be nice to ask some questions in front of the larger gaming websites. The account issues do affect some Star Wars players and some of them still haven't had them resolved. Or bring up how Star Wars is being driven through Origin and ask if that's a good thing in light of how many people are having problems - if you look at the regular Origin support forums, it's full of people having problems ranging from not being able to login to confusion to not being able to pay.

 

[Zosimus]

I'm pretty sure the title is Wildstar you are talking about?


NCSoft at PAX Prime 2011

 

[HD2300]

<- This is a PR guy

Blaming faceless EA management for everything, when whomever "produces" UO has had 9 months lead time to make sure everything goes smoothly is also PR.

 

[Woodsman]

<- This is a PR guy

When I mentioned Baghdad Bob earlier in the thread, I assumed that most are familiar with him, but thank you for the pic, as in retrospect there are probably some who aren't familiar with him.

Blaming faceless EA management for everything, when whomever "produces" UO has had 9 months lead time to make sure everything goes smoothly is also PR.

Speaking of EA management, since you didn't get a chance to answer in another thread, do you think it was a good idea for EA to continue with the migration after account problems and confusion occurred with the Star Wars migration back in July, a few weeks before they migrated UO, Camelot, and Warhammer?

 

[unified]

We need help Cal. There is so much wrong at this moment and so little ledership shown by your team that my trust in you is faltering greatly.

Lady Storm, I do hope your situation gets resolved.

I have to admit that I could not type this sooner because I could not stop laughing. You were always too quick to defend the developers and very critical of others here whenever anyone had anything bad to say about them. This was because the other players' woes were literally not your concern. Now that you share a greater proportion (53 accounts) of the other players problems, you now know first hand what all the fuss was about. :gun:

 

[Woodsman]

I'm pretty sure the title is Wildstar you are talking about?

NCSoft at PAX Prime 2011

Looks like that's it. On the Pax website, they don't have specifics, just NCSoft demoing a new game.

I found out a few minutes ago that somebody I know is going to be there, and they just so happen to have been playing support roulette with Origin/EA over their Star Wars account and pre-order problems from the migration. They do plan on trying to ask somebody from BioWare about the Origin migration if they get a chance.

 

[SixUnder]

my emails
and my posts on here

not one email returned or a pm.

in almost 2 weeks. its not good business.

 

[HD2300]

Blaming faceless EA management for everything, when whomever "produces" UO has had 9 months lead time to make sure everything goes smoothly is also PR.

Speaking of EA management, since you didn't get a chance to answer in another thread, do you think it was a good idea for EA to continue with the migration after account problems and confusion occurred with the Star Wars migration back in July, a few weeks before they migrated UO, Camelot, and Warhammer?

This project had 9 months lead time. During anytime during that 9 months if whoever "produces" UO actually did a test migration, 90% of all the problems we are having now would have been picked up, like game time codes.

 

[johnny13]

One thing the management know for sure if no matter how bad the screw up is you all will still be paying and playing.

 

[canary]

Lady Storm, I do hope your situation gets resolved.

I have to admit that I could not type this sooner because I could not stop laughing. You were always too quick to defend the developers and very critical of others here whenever anyone had anything bad to say about them. This was because the other players' woes were literally not your concern. Now that you share a greater proportion (53 accounts) of the other players problems, you now know first hand what all the fuss was about. :gun:

x2.

I find it rather entertaining. It's easy to cast stones until you are the person it is happening to.

 

[Woodsman]

This project had 9 months lead time. During anytime during that 9 months if whoever "produces" UO actually did a test migration, 90% of all the problems we are having now would have been picked up, like game time codes.

I didn't ask you about UO, I was asking you about EA management, since you've defended them several times.

I'll ask the same question again, giving you another chance to defend EA: Was it a good idea for EA to continue with the migration after account problems and player confusion occurred with the Star Wars migration back in July, two weeks before the UO/Camelot/Warhammer migration started?

 

[Woodsman]

One thing the management know for sure if no matter how bad the screw up is you all will still be paying and playing.

If we weren't complaining, that would be the time for the management to worry. As long as people are complaining and angry, that means they still care and they'll still be around when the problems are finally fixed.

Look at the anger from the Battlefield 3 players in the Origin support forums who are having problems pre-ordering. Some of them are threatening to switch to Call of Duty instead, but the fact that they are going through the trouble of posting in the Origin forums and raging over not being able to pay for the pre-order means that they'll be playing BF3 when it launches. You have to love the the videogame industry, where people get angry when they can't pay.

 

[Viper09]

This project had 9 months lead time. During anytime during that 9 months if whoever "produces" UO actually did a test migration, 90% of all the problems we are having now would have been picked up, like game time codes.

I didn't ask you about UO, I was asking you about EA management, since you've defended them several times.

I'll ask the same question again, giving you another chance to defend EA: Was it a good idea for EA to continue with the migration after account problems and player confusion occurred with the Star Wars migration back in July, two weeks before the UO/Camelot/Warhammer migration started?

I will give the answer HD is scared to admit. The answer is no. Twas not a good idea.

 

[puni666]

Do the dev's on these forums have much to do with the current problem though? I'm not really sure on anyone's specific jobs that they do. You could just be shooting at the messenger :/...

 

[Lady Storm]

Lady Storm, I do hope your situation gets resolved.

I have to admit that I could not type this sooner because I could not stop laughing. You were always too quick to defend the developers and very critical of others here whenever anyone had anything bad to say about them. This was because the other players' woes were literally not your concern. Now that you share a greater proportion (53 accounts) of the other players problems, you now know first hand what all the fuss was about. :gun:

Contrary to your assumption that it was just me, My ICQ and my son's was going wild by old friends who dont post here. Many have over the 9 accounts and were worried they would loose homes. Not all in UO come to stratics forums.
All were basicly having the very same troubles as I. On a few shards I play, some friends were absent to guild events due to the meriad of troubles. All complaining very bitterly about their cases and the non-help they were getting to get their problems fixed. I sent many to Larisa's post on how to traverse the new system.

Unified... I do defend their work, after all they have done so much to keep players in game. This was not their work.. this was a lame attempt to push a badly flawed program down our throat that needed serious fixes before it was started here. Had they given us a heads up on this maybe just maybe some of our troubles would have been better handled by us.
You knew this was coming?? You had no troubles?

Canary as the bird its self you sing the same song ... over and over and over again till people tune you out. I ignore you, sweety. (yes its full of sarcasim that sweety) Find another to pick on, Bullys like you must need the attention.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

It's an interesting thought - Amazon is a publisher of books, in addition to being a seller of books.

But Amazon.com would probably just buy a few small studios and or make their own games. They don't like reinventing things or buying big companies when they can do it on their own cheaper and more efficiently or building upon smaller companies. They didn't go out and buy any major established e-Readers, they developed the Kindle. They didn't buy up a major book publisher that many people are familiar with, they bought up some smaller companies, went into self-publishing, and created a system where authors could directly sell through them. You don't see Amazon churning out a lot of TV shows and movies, and those can be more profitable than the videogame business, and Amazon already has a huge business model revolving around selling and renting/streaming TV shows and movies.

I would see Amazon buying up a bunch of mobile or social gaming companies and trying to use a future Kindle to compete with the iPad or to drive people to Amazon.com before they did something like buying EA.

yeah, okay ... don't really think you realize that Amazon is a bit more than "bookish" ...

and the few things you glanced off of

But Amazon.com would probably just buy a few small studios and or make their own games. They don't like reinventing things or buying big companies when they can do it on their own cheaper and more efficiently or building upon smaller companies.

they would not be "re-inventing EA" ... they would be acquiring the man power and infra structure to RE-FINE the capacities there

SEPARATING UO ... retool and re-staff ( buy a few small studios and or make their own games) *AHEM-AH!!!* Head hunt Cathat BACK and >foster HIS team< Leurocian SAME ... Draconi? Different GAME
Same with every other studio absorbed >and turned to grey mush< BY EA ... Established IP's re-polished and re-released >under new management<

See? you kinda argued >against yourself< Kindle? buying a big company? are you saying they would rather buy >all the stuffs< and THEN start staffing?
yeah ... scratch built is "nice" RE-tuning re-focusing ... much much easier: out!! with the obstacles, use 'em as filling for the pot holes *chuckles*
whuat?
Ya think no-one but you and I KNOW what bad management LOOKS LIKE?
psssst! everyone in america over 24 has at least a suspicion that somethings wrong with bob the bosses nephew ... ya know?

Hmmm, I wonder, would amazon be able to ... like... Auction off the excess whatever? hmmmmm

 

[Zosimus]

I'm pretty sure the title is Wildstar you are talking about?

NCSoft at PAX Prime 2011

Looks like that's it. On the Pax website, they don't have specifics, just NCSoft demoing a new game.

I found out a few minutes ago that somebody I know is going to be there, and they just so happen to have been playing support roulette with Origin/EA over their Star Wars account and pre-order problems from the migration. They do plan on trying to ask somebody from BioWare about the Origin migration if they get a chance.

Actually this is the first I have read about it lol. Wasn't for you mentioning it I wouldn't of known. I been to busy following GW2 to really pay attention to anything else being made. I did find a demo video......


[youtube]l0hKiRFBfM0&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]


Now if EA was smart and made a UO2 they could get a bit of the action of these new players that hit these venues.

 

[Muu Bin]

<- This is a PR guy

Blaming faceless EA management for everything, when whomever "produces" UO has had 9 months lead time to make sure everything goes smoothly is also PR.

HAHA... good pic. It looks like Bob is being attacked by tribbles and it trying to surrender. I'm going to pretend it is Cal (in his military days) who is surrendering to the payers (err... I mean players).

 

[Woodsman]

Do the dev's on these forums have much to do with the current problem though? I'm not really sure on anyone's specific jobs that they do. You could just be shooting at the messenger :/...

The majority of the team have nothing to do with it. For security reasons, I doubt very few would even have access, since that would mean access to EA's main billing/accounting system, and usually companies are pretty crazy about security with that stuff (not always and EA's accounting management competence is questionable). You don't just send an email off saying you need access, they would keep tabs on who has access and for what reasons.

HD2300 may have just cracked a small mystery for us. HD2300 brought up the fact that Warhammer players got their gametime codes working like 5 days ago. Regardless of where Warhammer players bought their game time whether it's Amazon.com, Origin.com, or even a WalMart, they don't have to go through an account verification process with a third party, they just scratch off the area on their card or check email and paste the code in the appropriate account management area.

If you buy something through uogamecodes.com, you have to login to your UO account to verify it. Guess what? uogamecodes.com is run by a third party, ViaTech Technologies. That means that a third party is interacting with EA's accounting system in some form.

What if EA's new system makes it hard for third parties like ViaTech/uogamecodes.com to interact with your account? Security was mentioned as a reason why EA was migrating all of these games, and locking down access to third parties is a part of tightening security.

I just don't think it's a coincidence that Warhammer codes now work, but uogamecodes.com stuff doesn't work. Warhammer codes don't have third parties interacting with your account - Amazon or Walmart takes your money, but don't have you log into your Warhammer account at the cash register or checkout cart. uogamecodes.com does have a third party interacting with your account and I checked just now, and it still wants your account login to verify:

Before purchasing the selected item, you must first verify your UO Account. Your UO login information will not be stored or displayed anywhere.
It is simply being used to verify that you have an account.

 

[Woodsman]

Welp, on a whim, I put in random keys and numbers into the UO account verification fields on uogamecodes.com and it let me get to the purchase area.

In the past, if I mistyped my account or password, I would get an error message. No more error message now.

So it would seem that uogamecodes.com is no longer interacting with EA.

Anybody have any experience with uogamecodes.com recently where it let them get by the account verification before EA migrated our accounts?

update: Looking at the source code for the site, it looks like there is an unused error message that says to add "uo_" to your account name. Now if that was adding "_uo" to the end of your account, I would say it looks like they are working with the new EA account management system.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

I share your lament, but let's be frank: when developers post about problems on Stratics, they're immediately crucified. Genuine concerns get swallowed up by personal attacks, which leads to moderator intervention, which subsequently leads to dozens of PMs calling moderators ban-happy nazis, and so forth. It happens every time.

I hope we can coax the developers back. We really benefit from their time and insight. Unfortunately, before this can happen, I think some sort of culture shift needs to take place. Just sayin.

Before I continue my post I'd like to say that I'm not any sort of EA spokesperson and I know nothing about the inner workings of this account migration, and any issues it might have and because of that I can't comment on anything pertaining to it. So for the purposes of this post, let's set that issue aside. Not a dodge, I'm just not speaking on things I know nothing about. Da**** Jim, I'm a doctor, not an engineer. Ok, and I'm not a doctor, either.

<edit>
Also, after writing this I'd also like to say sorry for sounding preachy, it's just something that I care a lot about, and that's dev/player communication.
</edit>

So I think it's obvious that I second this comment. Woodsman and puni666 and others have made very insightful comments. I can't speak for my fellow team mates, but I feel pretty sure that most of us know little about the inner working s of the account migration issues and thus really have little to say on the topic that would be of any relevance to the questions you folks have.

But I saw this post from Syrus and really felt a pull to make a comment on it, especially in light of some of the other posts I've seen on this and other threads about dev posting. This is actually a topic that is important to me, so despite all the warning klaxons going off in my head to just close the browser and get back to work, I continue to type. I want to share with those who are interested my perceptions of Dev/Player interaction and posting on Stratics.

You should know outright that for me I believe that Dev/ Player interaction is a privilege, not a right. Player interaction is the probably the most rewarding aspect of this job for me, I kid you not. I have met some amazing people, and have been fortunate to call many friends - even those I've only met once, or have never met in person at all. I wish I could put into words what the player meet ups does for me, but in short, it's a powerful energizer.

But it's not a right and it's not actually a part of my job responsibilities. I do my utmost to treat it and you guys with respect and honesty so that I can continue doing it. I talk to you folks on this forum with the same regard as I would talking face to face with you. Those who have met me know this. Now from a dev's point of view posting to Stratics is dicey business - even posting about things we know about. Because there's so much potential for conversations to devolve. I have really thick skin and don't offend easily, and if someone has a beef about something I did or didn't do, I'm all about hearing about it. But the problem comes in when people start using their posts to air out personal grudges, vent frustration, or just troll. When these things occur, and they occur enough, it gives us good reason to give pause about the next time we want to post anything. Given enough crucifixions (to quote Syrus) and the interest in posting at all is gone. And this brings me to the flip side of the coin.

If I decided to never post to Stratics again, my job would not be affected at all. I wouldn't get any emails, or phone calls from team or EA. Nothing. And this goes for every dev on the team. I'll add that it's generally not in the best interest of ANY company to let any employee communicate directly to it's customers because there's to much opportunity for miscommunication. But this is the exact situation we enjoy here with UO/Stratics. I don't know if any other team at EA that enjoys this privilege, and I can't speak for how many other MMO's have this level of open door policy on a 3rd party forum. I worry that if dev / player interactions are perceived as being too caustic, that EA/ Mythic would determine that all communications would need to be through official EA channels only. I think this would be inconsistent with UO culture, and potentially damaging, but at the same time I can't say that I would blame them for making that call. Now, I'm not saying the above thing to spark any "If EA does <fill in the blank>, I'll quit!" posts. In fact, this is the exact thing I'm advocating NOT doing. At the end of the day, the responsibility is on us, the devs and the players as to how we conduct ourselves in these forums which influences the level of player/ dev interaction.

Personally, I want to hear about the things you guys like, the things you guys don't like, the things you guys would like to see in the future, but I don't like to hear about how some people think person X should be fired, doesn't care, or doesn't know how to do their job, when in fact (and let's be fair) unless you work on the team, or communicate with us privately, you really don't know us, what we do or what our responsibilities truly are. And this is just getting back to not commenting on things we really don't know anything about. IMO, I think it's totally appropriate to gripe about things that frustrate, as long as the conversation works towards solving the problem and doesn't devolve into personal skewering.

To finish up, you guys are great. I love a constructive (critical) conversation and I hope that I/UO enjoys many more years of this kind of connection between Devs and Players. But we should all appreciate what a rare and fragile privilege this is.

Regards to all,
Grimm "God, I hope I don't regret this post" Omen

 

[kelmo]

*smiles* Thanks Grimm.

 

[NuSair]

Regards to all,
Grimm "God, I hope I don't regret this post" Omen

Best post of the year.

 

[canary]

Before I continue my post I'd like to say that I'm not any sort of EA spokesperson... etc etc etc

Yes, but the issue is that barely any dev posts anymore.

I mean, the entire issue at hand is communication, or lack thereof.

Just look at the posting infrequency of the entire development team. It's increasingly rare that any choose to post.

Players count on communication with a team (that lacks any community rep, mind you) to relay information and say 'yes, we acknowledge this', which is currently AWOL with this game.

I play several onlines, many F2P, and I can tell you that easily UO has the worst communication with its players. Communication with those who actively develop the game is not only good PR; it also sets the tone for those who wish to continue paying the salary of those who create the game.

It shouldn't be a 'perk' to talk with the community. It should be a necessity... and currently the entire team (imo) is failing.

 

[kelmo]

canary... did you read TheGrimmOmen's post? Interaction is a priveldge. It is not a job requirment. Treat it as such.

Besides, the devs have absolutly nothing to do with accounting. They likely do not even hang out with the accountants... I would not. *winks*

 

[canary]

canary... did you read TheGrimmOmen's post? Interaction is a priveldge. It is not a job requirment. Treat it as such.

Besides, the devs have absolutly nothing to do with accounting. They likely do not even hang out with the accountants... I would not. *winks*

Why, yes, I read his post... that is why I replied.

I'm saying especially without a community rep, it is indeed important that ppl on the UO team talk with the playerbase openly. And frequently.

It shouldn't be a 'privilege' at this point. It should be a necessity. The more people become disenfranchised by the lack of communication the more they are apt to just leave.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Dearest GrimmOmen, we are delighted to see you and the more discerning of us recognise that you are an Artist and thus would be happy to converse with us on that subject.
It is my experience that Artists have little or nothing in common with bean counters therefore we will not expect you converse with us on their field of expertise

So ... Do you have anything interesting that you're able to share with us on that front? How are the EC art updates coming along? Will we like them? Will we see them soon?

 

[Hoffs]

canary... did you read TheGrimmOmen's post? Interaction is a priveldge. It is not a job requirment. Treat it as such.

Besides, the devs have absolutly nothing to do with accounting. They likely do not even hang out with the accountants... I would not. *winks*

Sorry, Kelmo, this is one time when I have to totally disagree with you. This whole process has been a fiasco, and continues to be. Throughout this time, the lack of communication to their loyal customers from someone in authority has been thoroughly reprehensible.

I have never quite understood exactly what Cal's job is. He doesn't seem to code and seems to be somewhat vague about exactly what is going on in the game (judging by the videos). From what I can make out he seems to be a typical bureaucrat who spends his time going from one meeting to another. But be that as it may, his title is PRODUCER and it is his job to make sure the customer base is informed about what is happening, if not personally then by the people under him. Whether or not he has been constrained by his employers is fairly irrelevant to me, he is the top dog at the game I play and so he is the one that is ultimately answerable in my eyes.

 

[Picus at the office]

Thanks for the post Grimm.

Any post from a member of the team even it said this thing is out of our hands and we feel like crap or find it funny is better then nothing.

Truelly at the end of the day without the limited postings from the Dev team stratics is done. Any old forum could do the same but its the official non-official area when devs speak.

 

[Hoffs]

Let us take an analogy. Suppose you used the railway every day to commute to work and there not alternative. But for nearly two weeks the ticketing system was in chaos. Your rail card was not working properly, your credit card was being rejected, the fares had gone up without notice and explanation, and on top of that when you finally did get a ticket, the trains you thought were running were frequently cancelled.

So eventually you and your fellow passengers get fed up and go and try to find the station manager or someone else to explain exactly what is going on and when it is going to be fixed. And out comes the baggage handler and tells you that Manager/User interaction is a privilege, not a right.

 

[Viper09]

Sorry, Kelmo, this is one time when I have to totally disagree with you. This whole process has been a fiasco, and continues to be. Throughout this time, the lack of communication to their loyal customers from someone in authority has been thoroughly reprehensible.

I have never quite understood exactly what Cal's job is. He doesn't seem to code and seems to be somewhat vague about exactly what is going on in the game (judging by the videos). From what I can make out he seems to be a typical bureaucrat who spends his time going from one meeting to another. But be that as it may, his title is PRODUCER and it is his job to make sure the customer base is informed about what is happening, if not personally then by the people under him. Whether or not he has been constrained by his employers is fairly irrelevant to me, he is the top dog at the game I play and so he is the one that is ultimately answerable in my eyes.

Except the devs aren't working on the account migration and thus can't really say anything because they don't know anything. Read Grimms post. Just because Cal has the title of producer doesn't mean he knows much of the accounting department. You give too much stock in titles.

 

[Petra Fyde]

How much would you expect the guy who drives the train to know about the ticketing system?

If I understand correctly Cal is responsible for the direction of the game. The financial aspects of us paying for it isn't under his remitt.

 

[kelmo]

Petra. It just seems the 'villagers' want a target for the torches and pitch forks.

None of the folks we are used to dealing with have any say over accounting. Hell, I suspect they are as suprized over much of this as we are.

As for Calvin. I think he only posts when he has something to say.

 

[Hoffs]

Then the UO team should have posted and made it quite clear that things were beyond their control. Further, they should have passed on our collective grievances to the accounts department and informed us of what was being done, the ETA, the tax policy, etc.

Even if they could have added nothing beyond telling us it was being worked upon, they should have at least communicated with us.

Honestly, the only thing that prevents me going ahead and cancelling all my accounts now is that fact that I will finally have to navigate the new accounts system.

 

[Aurelius]

To finish up, you guys are great. I love a constructive (critical) conversation and I hope that I/UO enjoys many more years of this kind of connection between Devs and Players. But we should all appreciate what a rare and fragile privilege this is.

Grimm,

Appreciate much of what you are saying - but...

EA/Mythic don't seem to want player involvement - which is more properly termed customer involvement - at any level other than 'pay us money and be quiet'. There really should be a proper, dedicated community rep, it's something pretty much every other mmo has realised is important, yet EA/Mythic have gone backwards and over time reduced that function until it now seems to have been totally abolished. Irregular and innacurate spasms of posting from people who generally mean well but have no real clue about the game webpage don't cut it.

Communication between devs and players might - and I strongly disagree, but still, let's stick with your term - be a 'privelege', but the company we pay treating us with anything approaching respect is not. Over the years, many of us got involved in Betas to help the game, and find our bug reports completely ignored when the expansion released. We try to test patches and changes, but they either bypass EA/Mythics own supposed testing regime, and/or appear at such short notice nobody has a hope of seriously testing anything. And now we've been made pretty much guinea-pigs for a blatantly mismanaged and disorganised change in accounting systems.....yet again, players and posters have done the work that was rightly EA's to do in explaining how the system is supposed to work, par for the course when we so often end up having to find workrounds for in-game issues or systems that don't work 'as intended' but are so rarely fixed.

I'm sure many of the Dev team, including you, are commited to the game - but the organisation you work for repeatedly treats it's customers like dirt, fails to communicate anything even when it is clearly beneficial to the product and the organisation to do so, and seems to regard any meaningful interaction with us as beneath their dignity.

Don't be surprised if many of us think the 'privelege' is that EA/Mythic have loyal, passionate and enthusiastic customers for UO when they show so little regard for us.

 

[Viper09]

Then the UO team should have posted and made it quite clear that things were beyond their control. Further, they should have passed on our collective grievances to the accounts department and informed us of what was being done, the ETA, the tax policy, etc.

Even if they could have added nothing beyond telling us it was being worked upon, they should have at least communicated with us.

Honestly, the only thing that prevents me going ahead and cancelling all my accounts now is that fact that I will finally have to navigate the new accounts system.

That wouldn't have changed much though. The devs posting that it is beyond their control. In a way that actually sounds worse than saying nothing IMO.

What would be nice though is a community rep like we use to have.

 

[LadyNico]

Developer does not equal Accountant.

I wouldn't hire a dev team to sort out an accounting problem anymore than I would hire a plumber to rewire my faulty fuse box.

I would MUCH rather the Dev team used their time developing, creating & fixing UO than mucking about with billing & accounting.

We have telephone numbers & emails for the bean counters. Use them, and remember the old adage that we attract more flies with a lil honey than we do with mountains of poop.

For those who really need to trouble the folks at the top, Cal's email is dotted around this board. Find it and use it.

 

[AirmidCecht]

I'm going to take Grimms thoughts and say I agree totally with him and the mindset of many demanding interaction with the developer team.

First of all, many MMO's have their own official fansite and even there the dev to player interaction is very minimal at best. Most of it is left to the community representatives who's comments are geared towards the 'spin cycle' (tell them what they want to hear then do what you want anyways).

I don't even begrudge them that because the last thing you want is an entire forum taking over general discussion with the "yes I know this is being addressed in such and such thread but MY needs should be heard in this totally separate thread I just created."

The main point of that though is why does that happen? Is it that there is just THAT many forum trolls alive and active? Are the players justified in their frustration over lack of information? Are players being affected in a very real way with their finances, what they pay for and are not receiving or double billed for?

It's a constant balance of the pendulum and both the community and the official people in charge of communicating what is going on with the game bare the weight of it, pushing down on their end. One is always going to swing harder so the goal should be equal parts communication to equal parts expectations.

I have always appreciated the interaction we have received in the past beyond just the CM's like Binky, Wilki, Jeremy, Chrissay ect. We have gotten to know other developers over the years who try as best they can to gather our input and keep UO fun and engaging for over 13 years now.

To me, Stratics and the players I have come to know are an extension of my family. I feel protective of both so when I don't feel the players are being heard I'm as vocal as I can be highlighting the threads and waving orange sticks on good productive discussion. At the same time I feel we are all very privileged to have the interactions we enjoy and shame on any of you who use that as an opportunity to anonymously bash or call for the resignation of anyone just because they can.

We are working hard as a staff team to keep that balance between player concerns and outright dev bashing. Thank goddess for Petra and our moderators for taking up the responsibility for us. It's something I could not do.

 

[Viper09]

...Regards to all,
Grimm "God, I hope I don't regret this post" Omen

Thanks for the post Grimm. Appreciated it.

 

[soze]

Such an interesting dynamic being played out here that reflects what is actually happening with the customer-servicer relationships.

1. with more frequency, we see consumers demanding perhaps above and beyond what they are paying for...No...i am not referring to EA corporate and their finance/accounting department....but rater the expectations that the DEVs immediately respond and handhold the players through this process.

To say that DEV/Player communication is a priveledge depends on your point of view....some consumers feel it is a right and expect it....the DEVS (at least in the case of GRIMM) feel it is not job requirement, but rather an above and beyond outreach.

Either way, this is not in the Terms of Agreement....it is not something gauranteed with our monthly service fee...some consumers assume it should happen...doesn't mean it should or will. Is it nice when it does...yes.

2. The second dynamic....and this goes to EA corporate and not the UO team, is with more and more frequency, we are seeing bigger companies losing touch, or becoming increasing impersonal with consumers. they depend on quick, cost saving methods....and they do not appear overly concerned about individual customer satisfaction....they just play a numbers game....they expect to loose 'x' amount of consumers at any given time, and hopefully make it up later. It's not that they dont care....just dont care about you specifically. You can only hope for an exceptional Customer Service Rep in cases like this.

As i said before...i don't hold the DEVS in anyway responsible for this. To post BS like a DEV should loose their jobs over this is asinine to say the least...Remember, this is a computer game....That's all it is.

Would I have liked to see commuincation from the DEV team immeidately? Sure...although they wouldnt have been able to say much, it would have been great...but it is not something I expect personally.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Before I continue my post I'd like to say that I'm not any sort of EA spokesperson and I know nothing about the inner workings of this account migration, and any issues it might have and because of that I can't comment on anything pertaining to it. So for the purposes of this post, let's set that issue aside. Not a dodge, I'm just not speaking on things I know nothing about. Da**** Jim, I'm a doctor, not an engineer. Ok, and I'm not a doctor, either.


Regards to all,
Grimm "God, I hope I don't regret this post" Omen

Hey Grimm (I'll assume a right to the familiarity of a "nick", I am in possesion of "from TheGrimmOmen items" such as valentine cards, In the game of UO.)
*grins* that and I've seen you round here before.

Opening caveats/disclaimer: I early on granted a "pass" to TeamUO.
(throws a gentle elbow at ribs) You all couldn't dream up such a mess and get it published so widely and quickly
and with such patently bad layout and design ...*grins*

On Topic:
I suggest that privilege and right are too commonly intertwined as definitions of each other, and that Permission be used as a defining word. It is also defined by and within, both: right and privilege.
More precisely, it is commonly used as: having negotiated the rights and privileges >and then< being granted Permission.
I may assume a right, I may assume a privilege, but a negotiated Permission is required to KNOW if I was correct in my assumptions.
I have the right to travel where I wish
I enjoy the privilege of access to public areas
I do not, however, Have Permission to dance naked and screaming and drunk on the sidewalk across from the school ...
The Police and the Judge and the Lawyers made that PERFECTLY clear; Backyard yes, Permission Granted. Sidewalk, in town, no.

Get the picture? (heeyuk! ) You have my permission to do with it as you wish. Boo!Yah!

Yes! I enjoy getting a bit of informed opinion and information from another human being, as you seem to indicate you also enjoy.
Yes! I realize from my decades of HR management, that an employee is governed by certain legal restrictions(Permissions) as to what and when and where, an employee, may or may not discuss in varying levels and detail: their work.

I also know how frustrating it can be, on an employee ... to have that thing of greatest value and beauty, the truth. But Not having Permission to share it
*low distant booom*

the "employee" has entered a different dimension of existence, a dimension of morals and ethics and survival; weighing and measuring a vast array of things, sensing that there maybe things beyond and unknown, Past that which is now and immediate ...
Surely honesty is the best Policy ... As Surely as sometimes it is best to keep yo mouth shut ... which interestingly enough, just so happens to be the First bit of advice From a good Lawyer.(See: sidewalk, above)

In my opinion, you transgressed no permissions, and might(should!) be due praise from EA, and all of your team mates, for making you all Look good.

Now,
How's it "feel" to be on that bus, not driving but simply riding along as you normally do daily, and seeing the train coming down the tracks, and the twister seemingly approaching from the other side, as the driver is distractedly tweeting for 911 about the fire that just flared out from under the hood?
Get permission, and then, time permitting ...

Get back to us on that.
If you may ...

Burma Shaving with Occams Razor WooHoo!! Framing a wiiiiiide view picture !!! Come! Drink And DANCE with the broccoli !!

Oh! you have my Permission to pass this and THIS along too , Thx

 

[Korik Bloodguard]

The system is easy to use. The people who designed the system obviously thought the people using it were not aged technophobes.

For the rest of us it works.

 

[Taylor]

It just seems the 'villagers' want a target for the torches and pitch forks.

I'm available. I've been told that make a good target.

 

[Woodsman]

EA/Mythic don't seem to want player involvement - which is more properly termed customer involvement - at any level other than 'pay us money and be quiet'.

Actually, they do, but it varies based on the game. The Star Wars community/PR team is very active. The Senior Online Community Manager for Star Wars made a post in this thread about Star Wars dropping the need to go through the Origin client. I noticed it because it created a lot of attention through the community and gaming websites. They have a lot of Q&As, they are doing a lot. Of course they've got something like 800+ people working on Star Wars, but there are three games - UO, Camelot, and Warhammer that are currently bringing in money to EA.

Last week, one of the people who is a part of community relations team responsible for UO invited Warhammer players to a room they rented at a brewery in Germany to discuss Warhammer. Some of those same people are probably now in Seattle for PAX this week, again to discuss Warhammer with players and the media.

I understand that Warhammer has a lot of problems and that the Arena game maybe kind of a last-ditch effort to revive interest in it, but at the same time UO probably brings in more money and more importantly than which game is larger, there was a lot more stress and drama created around UO because unlike Warhammer, UO players worry about their houses and many have multiple accounts.

The people who are supposed to be interacting with the UO community, those are some long flights between Germany and the states and between Virginia and Seattle. Spend 30 minutes out of god knows how many hours on the airplane brainstorming things to discuss with UO players. And if you're not having to make the flights between those places, well find 30 minutes to start up a dialogue with us.

I'm not meaning to bash Warhammer either - I liked it, but I never fully immersed myself in it, and I'm not ignoring Camelot - the Camelot players deserve to hear from the community reps as much as we do - their website is not fully functional, their version of MyUO hasn't come back either (And neither has Warhammers), their frustrated almost as much as we are, but UO players have the advantage/problem of housing making a lot more of us be much more involved or tied to the game.

 

[Aurelius]

The people who are supposed to be interacting with the UO community, those are some long flights between Germany and the states and between Virginia and Seattle. Spend 30 minutes out of god knows how many hours on the airplane brainstorming things to discuss with UO players. And if you're not having to make the flights between those places, well find 30 minutes to start up a dialogue with us.

But there's the rub ... the 'people who are supposed to be interacting with the UO community' seem not to exist - or they are so 'shared' between three games they know very little about this one, and say even less...

I don't expect them to fly anywhere to discuss stuff with us, but I do expect a company that's genuinely interested in their customers to utilise what they already have - forums, their website, their Facebook and Twitter pages - to actually, genuinely, communicate. I think companies who ask players to Beta test stuff should act on the information they get, that they should be using their own testing procedures rather than just chucking stuff out to meet some internal deadline, changing important systems like account management should roll out after a lot of testing, with full explanations of what is happening and why, to the people affected.... none of which happens. My only conclusion after all this has to be EA/Mythic do not consider these things, or us, worth the costs involved.

It's not the Dev team... it's the corporate attitude that is rotten to the core.

 

[Woodsman]

Then the UO team should have posted and made it quite clear that things were beyond their control. Further, they should have passed on our collective grievances to the accounts department and informed us of what was being done, the ETA, the tax policy, etc.

Even if they could have added nothing beyond telling us it was being worked upon, they should have at least communicated with us.

The fact that all three Mythic teams, as well as the Star Wars team, were being very quiet about the account migration problems within the community/forums and only raising the subject when they are going to do do something, and even then the same statements were copied and pasted between all three sites, says everything you need to know about the situation. It looks like there was information lockdown, which makes TheGrimmOmen's post all the more amazing.

But be that as it may, his title is PRODUCER and it is his job to make sure the customer base is informed about what is happening, if not personally then by the people under him. Whether or not he has been constrained by his employers is fairly irrelevant to me, he is the top dog at the game I play and so he is the one that is ultimately answerable in my eyes.

The problem is that, like most of the GMs, the community relations people are outside of his control, because they are covering multiple games, and the past week and this week, their #1 priority is to get out there and sell Warhammer. That frustrates me a lot. I don't see how 40 hours a week can be filled up with pushing the new Warhammer Arena game or copying and pasting the same notices between all three websites.

And if he is being constrained by his employers, which I'm fairly certain is happening given the silence from the other teams, it's hard to blame him, because the economy is crap and people like to keep their jobs.

We would all like to have martyrs willing to go the distance to support our games, but we had one of those, and low and behold, two years ago he was fired by EA, and EA probably had to pay out a lot of money to get rid of him given the deal when Mythic was sold to them.

 

[Petra Fyde]

This thread is going in ever decreasing circles and getting no where.
Let's end it.