Keep the pets powerful,but bring the tamer down a notch

[Metalstorm]

I think the problem here is that the op has taming confused with magery.

Magic is not taming. Taming is not magic. They are two separate, different things.
They work different from each other because they are not the same skill. Different rules apply.

Sorry but that whole idea of pets auto stabling after running out of mana makes me think that what you really want is the complete utter extinction of the taming profession.


I mean no offense in saying this but I'm glad you're not running the game.
Again, nothing personal. It's just that these ideas are not anything at all like a balance. It's more like shoving the skill completely off the scale and into the trash bin.

 

[Vaelix]

Want to balance Pets in PvP without Affectng PvM?

Give 120 Music 120 Provo a 50% Chance to provo 120 taming 120 lore back onto owner in PvP.

Which would scale according to Skill vs Skill.

*And give tamers a reason to run 120 120 as I would never go above 110 115 for a PvP Template*

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

No directing my pet should NEVER require mana... that's just insane.

And you are just a whiner... learn to PvP. Pet don't do jack if Tamer is dead.

If commanding/controlling a pet doesn't require mana, then neither should spellsongs. And again this has NOTHING to do with PvP but only the tamers skill set itself. How much more clearly can I state this until people understand what I am saying?

Should talking require mana too? Verbal house commands? Mounting your horse?

People understand what you're saying; we just think it’s an idiotic idea. How blunt would you like us to be?

You say this has nothing to do with PvP, yet that’s immediately where everyone's mind went to when you started this thread. There is no reason for your restrictions in PvM, unless you just like annoying game mechanics. The only reason I can conceive of for want of this in a PvP instance is because you got spanked by a tamer in Fel and raged.

Either way, it doesn't matter. UO doesn't need more tedium or annoyance factor mechanics.

What are you going to suggest the pets do when a tamer runs out of mana, just stop on the spot and refuse all commands?

Wenchy

It will stop and be insta-stabled.My spellsongs stop if I hit 0 mana,why not the same with pets?

Spellsongs are spells... Words of power and everything. Unless tamers (or their pets) get special moves they can perform which cost dex/mana, there is NO sane reason to change 13 years worth of function just because you decided you don't like it.

Stabling a pet when mana runs out? So you want to punish the tamers now, too? Hmm.. Tamer out in the wilds with their pet(s)... tells them to follow her... oops out of mana because she dared talk to her pet(s). Pets go *poof* Tamer gets eaten by a grue or ganked by a zerg guild. (Ultimately this would require a tamer to carry multiple balls of summoning...)

Why don’t you go work up a tamer to 120/120/120 and see how long it takes you without SoTs, running rails, or unattended macroing. Play the tamer for three months and then report back.

BTW, not every tamer is geared for PvP. I labored over a tamer recently because I thought the end result would be fun. My tamer would last about 3 seconds in PvP because I didn’t create it with that intention, nor did I give it any kind of offensive skills other than GM magery. Requiring more mana to talk to a pet would effectively cripple the ability for a plain vanilla tamer to do much of anything. (and no, not every tamer has an overpowered event pet that nolonger spawns)

 

[Skrag]

Mostly it's just damage and HP levels that need to be adjusted. I don't REALLY care if some newbass tamer can solo everything in the game. I just don't want my melee self getting obliterated in one or two shots because everything has to be super-powerful in order to fight tamer pets.

 

[Trick Tickler]

nerf paper, its too strong. but keep scissors the way they are. - signed rock

 

[KoolAidAddict]

(Dreads are vastly superior in PvP) Mount Pet + Run off Screen + Laugh

Why do most of the Situations players present that show examples of "balance" in tamers, generally assume that the tamer is a horrible pvper and does nothing but stand there dying or watching the pet get slaughtered?

hehe
Cause thats what the fools think....shhhh.....let em!!
I mean cmon, disco, pots and a summons ?
Goodluck on that combo while im settin your hiney ablaze!!

 

[Llewen]

I don't REALLY care if some newbass tamer can solo everything in the game.

And this kind of statement is just an out and out lie. First off, if you want to solo anything really difficult on a tamer, you really have to know what you are doing. Secondly, there are plenty of bosses that you couldn't even think think of soloing with a tamer, the Slasher and Paroxysmus are two that come immediately to mind, but there are more, and there have been plenty of events in the past where it was pointless to even try to work them with a tamer. The same cannot be said for the real king of pvm, the sampire.

There are problems with two basic kinds of tamer templates in pvp, the archer and to a lesser extent the dexxer. If there are to be any "fixes", they need to be specifically targeted so that other tamer templates, which are clearly not overpowered, are not affected. Most of the suggestions in this thread and in others on the subject would ensure that any kind of tamer is unable to compete with any other competent template, and most of those suggestions are coming from tamer haters whose interest isn't fairness, or balance, it is in removing tamers from the game period.

 

[Fernadious]

And this kind of statement is just an out and out lie. First off, if you want to solo anything really difficult on a tamer, you really have to know what you are doing. Secondly, there are plenty of bosses that you couldn't even think think of soloing with a tamer, the Slasher and Paroxysmus are two that come immediately to mind, but there are more, and there have been plenty of events in the past where it was pointless to even try to work them with a tamer. The same cannot be said for the real king of pvm, the sampire.

Isnt that why the game gives you 6+ character slots to play with on each shard?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

There are problems with two basic kinds of tamer templates in pvp, the archer and to a lesser extent the dexxer. If there are to be any "fixes", they need to be specifically targeted so that other tamer templates, which are clearly not overpowered, are not affected. Most of the suggestions in this thread and in others on the subject would ensure that any kind of tamer is unable to compete with any other competent template, and most of those suggestions are coming from tamer haters whose interest isn't fairness, or balance, it is in removing tamers from the game period.

To be fair, to them this would be fair or balance because at any time a tamer will be overpowered to them, almost no matter what you do to the template or pets (although again I have to say greater dragons and dread mares do hit a little to hard, but greaters are not that big of a deal, rarely used in pvp. But dreads are serious.)

 

[Llewen]

Isnt that why the game gives you 6+ character slots to play with on each shard?

Yes, and I'd like one of them that I can play, both in pvm and pvp, to be my tamer. Most of the ideas floating around right now would put an end to that.

 

[Fernadious]

UO is all about being Flexible. Different encounters, different characters. Deal with it as 90% of this game does.

 

[Fernadious]

And tbh mount/dismount should just cancel special moves like spells do. That will pretty much resolve some archer/tamer tactics which seems from what i read on the Topic is the major problem.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

And tbh mount/dismount should just cancel special moves like spells do. That will pretty much resolve some archer/tamer tactics which seems from what i read on the Topic is the major problem.

How? Do you mean when you dismount a pet, or mount a pet the special is turned off? If so then yes it would help some, and has been noted by someone...somewhere, in one of these 3 tamer threads. If that is not what you mean then please explain. Of course if it is what you mean it might not be a deep enough cut as hitting one key and then another only takes a matter or not even a second, maybe if the normal dismount timer applied to being able to use the skill as well? Ie. dismount from pet, can not use dismount special for x seconds after.

 

[Fernadious]

I guess that tick of a sec is enough for ppl to notice the coming dismount or just put 0.5 - 1.0 sec to do the special... just saying.

The best for people is to be flexible. Seems ppl need a lot of caring these day s.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I guess that tick of a sec is enough for ppl to notice the coming dismount or just put 0.5 - 1.0 sec to do the special... just saying.

The best for people is to be flexible. Seems ppl need a lot of caring these day s.

Now this I can agree with. Adapt or Die. I am not posting here to argue but to offer solutions to complaints, if they don't change anything I continue on my way, if they do I adapt or learn how to adapt or simply well, as I put, Die.

 

[Fernadious]

Now this I can agree with. Adapt or Die. I am not posting here to argue but to offer solutions to complaints, if they don't change anything I continue on my way, if they do I adapt or learn how to adapt or simply well, as I put, Die.

 

[Llewen]

UO is all about being Flexible. Different encounters, different characters. Deal with it as 90% of this game does.

Sooo, for example, if all the mana costs for magery spells were quadrupled, and as a result magery was no longer viable in pvp or pvm, you would just "deal with it"? Or maybe if every swing of a sword had a mana cost on top of the current cost for specials, and when you ran out of mana you were disarmed, all the dexxers out there should just "deal with it"?

Yes, if my tamer is no longer able to pvp I will "deal with it". I'll cancel my subscriptions and find some other game to play...

 

[Llewen]

And tbh mount/dismount should just cancel special moves like spells do. That will pretty much resolve some archer/tamer tactics which seems from what i read on the Topic is the major problem.

This is a good idea.

 

[Vaelix]

And tbh mount/dismount should just cancel special moves like spells do. That will pretty much resolve some archer/tamer tactics which seems from what i read on the Topic is the major problem.

This would have an effect on "Newbies" who rely on the toggled instant dismount, but it would still be Extremely easy to dismount any Caster.

You just wait until they go for anything above a 2nd Level spell, and you basically will have a Free swing on them no matter what, I generally did this on My Tamer as I used a Wand to dismount and always had a Plague Pre-Casted (So No Ranged or Pre-Toggled Dismount, however You would disrupt them) And Dismounting people was still fairly easy.

There are a lot of problems with Taming, but *IMO* one of the biggest problems, is the Fact that the Pet offers the strength of a Seperate Finished char for 225 Skill Investment which basically thinks independently from the Tamer once commanded.

I don't see why lowering the Pet Damage % Against players is a bad thing, Because you are not *ONLY* a Tamer.

If you were Only a Tamer, then yes, a change like that is absurd, but as i said, for only 225 Skill a Tamer has a a *Lot* of room for viability on their template.

I have also played a Tamer Mage and Parry Tamer Mage, I ran the parry because of archers at one point, Having a dread on a Template functions as an amazing defense for Dismount, 1v1, Other Pets, Anything, they have no slayer, and a Very nice HP pool. It also functions as an amazing offense when they decide to combo right or are close enough to melee. You also still have 120 Mage Eval Offense and Defense, and can work Scribe/150 Int into your suit and hit like a truck, while being able to Mage Heal or go for Parry for Whatever.

Basically you are just trying to divert attention away from tamers in general (So you can Keep yours) and focusing on Dismount/Ect, Which yes, are OP, but having that Dread and Bake if you want sitting next to you still offers you too much power on almost Any template for the Skill/Player Skill needed, Tamer Mage included.

 

[Skrag]

What I'd do is...

1) Rebalance damage and HP across the board so that monsters don't obliterate players in two hits, but aren't helpless against tamer pets with many times as much health. Adjusting the player health formula from 50+(STR/2) to just 50+STR might be a decent start worth testing.

2) Make it more difficult to use Chivalry and Necromancy on the same template. Maybe have Chivalry spells burn a player in a necro form the way garlic magery spells burn players in vampiric form.