Justice and Protection

[Mervyn]

I think this needs looking at, the basic concept is fine in that it was originally designed to reward players for being virtuous.

However the most effective use of Justice and protection in order to get all 6 powerscrolls requires the protector to do... well nothing. The protector cannot hit the champ boss because the protector cannot protect himself so will lose scrolls, now with the healing change the protector cannot heal the guys hitting the champ.

Essentially the best way to get the most scrolls is to just be hidden in the corner of a dungeon. This results in many people dual clienting and leaving the protector afk and i don't blame them. I don't believe this to be within the spirit of UO.

Discuss

 

[Cogniac]

Solution: Cap the number of powerscrolls a protector can get to 4, whether they hit the champion, heal other players, or hide in a corner doing nothing.

I just solved the problem and trolled a large swath of the playerbase, all in one sentence. Not bad for a minute's work.

 

[Varrius]

Here is my thread about this from almost 2 years ago.
Scroll down to Bleak's 2nd post... best post ever.

http://stratics.com/community/threads/next-publish-concerning-power-scrolls-protection.259835/

 

[Mervyn]

ok bleak's post stated:

"Incorrect you will still be able to receive 12 scrolls but it now requires more than three players. Player A attacks champ, Player B heals Player A, Player C protects A, and Player D protects Player B." bleak

This is actually not how the system works, Player A hits champ, player B heals player A (if required, with the strengh of sampires now this is not required), and player C protects player A and B then player C goes hidden afk as far away from the champ as possible but remained on the same server. (Player C is often player A/B dual clienting)

 

[Winker]

Merv, the scrolls are worthless, who cares?

 

[Varrius]

ok bleak's post stated:

"Incorrect you will still be able to receive 12 scrolls but it now requires more than three players. Player A attacks champ, Player B heals Player A, Player C protects A, and Player D protects Player B." bleak

This is actually not how the system works, Player A hits champ, player B heals player A (if required, with the strengh of sampires now this is not required), and player C protects player A and B then player C goes hidden afk as far away from the champ as possible but remained on the same server. (Player C is often player A/B dual clienting)

Thank you for explaining how the power scroll system works after it being in for almost 2 years now.
The reason I said it was the best post ever was because one of the people that designed it didn't understand it.

 

[kaio]

Scrolls might be worthless. But to make it fair, i think the "Protecter" should loose scrolls if any of the persons whom he/she protect gets killed....

 

[Winker]

Scrolls might be worthless. But to make it fair, i think the "Protecter" should loose scrolls if any of the persons whom he/she protect gets killed....

Who dies at a champ spawn? I solo them from start to finish with out dieing once. And I don't do the champs for the scrolls as they are worthless. I do them for the replica arties

 

[DJAd]

I do them for the replica arties

I do them for the fame and glory!
Also I was protecting once, the guys where taking so long I decided to help out and smack the boss. I still got 6 scrolls.

 

[G.v.P]

Essentially the best way to get the most scrolls is to just be hidden in the corner of a dungeon. This results in many people dual clienting and leaving the protector afk and i don't blame them. I don't believe this to be within the spirit of UO.

It is sad how most people farm Justice off red alts and multi-client-stealth the protector, but it's also the best way to keep any and all protection scrolls in the case of a raid. In other words, there would probably need to be an added incentive for the protector to engage rather than stay hidden, otherwise, I don't see why anyone would stop multi-clienting.

 

[kaio]

Who dies at a champ spawn? I solo them from start to finish with out dieing once. And I don't do the champs for the scrolls as they are worthless. I do them for the replica arties

So true, Unless someone RAID's you...

It could be fun if the champ spawns in t2a were removed...oh well just a tought..

 

[Voodoo Bad Mojo]

this is just a system that the game has outgrown.
back when it was introduced even small shards had big fights at champs.
so actually protecting the guys doing the champs was needed.
but even then it was useless because the guys guarding the guys doing the champs where usually the good pvp'rs who where red and couldnt toggle any of the virtues anyways.

 

[Winker]

So true, Unless someone RAID's you...

It could be fun if the champ spawns in t2a were removed...oh well just a tought..

Yeah even then it's fun, if it's only 1 or 2 people I can hold my own and normally kill one of them. If you kill one the other one will run off. But if there are 3 or more I just leave them to it and I go and do another one else where, normally on the island where no one checks.

 

[Winker]

I have to say that I have noticed that the 120 scroll drop a lot less these days, or at least the good 120's since the devs introduced scroll binding they reduced the rate of the 120 drops. Nerfing the champ spawns even more than they needed to

 

[DJAd]

I have to say that I have noticed that the 120 scroll drop a lot less these days, or at least the good 120's since the devs introduced scroll binding they reduced the rate of the 120 drops. Nerfing the champ spawns even more than they needed to

Yep I've noticed the same.

 

[kaio]

I miss the good old days before scrollbinding...Back then it was really like winning the lottery if you got a 120 Magery.....

 

[Obsidian]

I miss the good old days before scrollbinding...Back then it was really like winning the lottery if you got a 120 Magery.....

I don't know about you, but I still feel like I won the lottery when I get that final 115 and a 120 Magery pops in my pack from binding. It feels like a sense of accomplishment to me which is just as good as the scroll dropping right in your pack. I think the system works fine, but agree it would be nice if the 120 and quality scroll drop rate increases ever so slightly.

 

[kaio]

I don't know about you, but I still feel like I won the lottery when I get that final 115 and a 120 Magery pops in my pack from binding. It feels like a sense of accomplishment to me which is just as good as the scroll dropping right in your pack. I think the system works fine, but agree it would be nice if the 120 and quality scroll drop rate increases ever so slightly.

The feeling is not quite the same, Coz back then, everything below a 120 was kinda worthless in some way.

 

[PJay]

The system is silly because protection isn't what your doing you cannot heal or attack so your actually doing nothing.
Id propose if the people protected die protection is lost as well as a dot of justice.
Id also propose there be a number of tiles from the alter to receive the scrolls.

 

[G.v.P]

Here's a rough proposal for the Justice virtue:

GAIN
-Justice gains from killing PKs will remain at the current rate
-Added Justice gains for killing/capturing Pirates (Fel Only)

Reasoning: The current system encourages players to create a red character for the sole purpose of farming Justice. By adding a second, Fel Only, way to gain, players will now have a group option in which all participants may gain Justice together, at one time. Since the Pirates will be Fel Only, this area of the map--and its gains--will still be regulated by those whom wish to interrupt the gains (get ready, ye pirates!).

SYSTEM-Damage to Champion penalty lifted
-Protector's healing metric (undisclosed) will add weight to percent chance of an artifact drop for group, IE, the more healing done, the higher chance of one of the protected characters to receive an artifact (up to a 10% bonus)
-Protector may no longer receive Protection bonus while hidden (perhaps use the code from the Covetous Waves?)

Reasoning: The current system encourages the protector to hide in the sub-server and never move. As a result, a player will usually run the protector on a second client, while using a character on the first client for damage. These changes allow and encourage the protector to damage the Champion freely, with an emphasis on healing through an overall drop bonus for the group.

With these changes, a group will be able to gain Justice together, benefit more from the use of a protector, and the protector role will no longer feel stagnant, as the healing changes will help redefine the importance of having a protector.

PARTY
-Added option to break loot while still in party
(had to throw that one in there)

 

[Jessy (Europa)]

It seems to me that some explanation is required here .

The main champ done on Europa is Despise , with a few destards and t2a champs . PRO guild are very active in scouting all these , so they can raid on their reds , a lot of the time they are successful in their Raids , and the only thing they miss out on , is all the scrolls . Unless they take time and heal the champ up or are lucky enough to find the protector .

Now whilst I agree , the system is flawed , Lets not get curl tailed into believing that this post is about the system , but more about not being able to control the outcome of raiding a spawn down to the last scroll. Also note that People posting are known to use the system very well to their own advantage aswell .

The other favourite now , is mutliboxing a Protector/Discorder and Sampire. All that needs to be done if raided , is for Protector to run away , doesn't matter if samp dies . Protector can go into Terra , Christ you can be in fire and get drops from Despise , "got the int boots once before I actually got back into Despise after leaving for arrows".

I would Rather see the ability to cast field spells within 5 tiles of drop points changed than this. You want to hold a spawn , fight for it , not just trap the drop-in..........That applies to all in general.

 

[PJay]

Oh Drat i missed off the protector should be allowed to heal on my previous post! And i do like G.v.P's proposal.

Jessy if PRO raid a champ we always heal the champ and get all the scrolls its the only way so these changes wouldn't make much difference to us. Its about a system which was already flimsy being made even worse with the healing/loot changes.

 

[Mervyn]

Merv, the scrolls are worthless, who cares?

It's not really about the scrolls, it's about the stupidity of having to leave chars hidden afk somewhere. I'm sure Justice was not intended to be used this way.

 

[Winker]

It's not really about the scrolls, it's about the stupidity of having to leave chars hidden afk somewhere. I'm sure Justice was not intended to be used this way.

Its always been that way Merv, way back in the days when i used to play in UCH, what 10 years ago? and we have been doing it that way ever since... 10 years and your just catching on? The protector always stayed hidden and seathed out with the scrolls.

 

[Mervyn]

It's been that way for 10 years sure, but that doesn't make it cool. There are bugs that have been about for 15 years like the keyboard thing, didn't make it right.

 

[Winker]

It's been that way for 10 years sure, but that doesn't make it cool. There are bugs that have been about for 15 years like the keyboard thing, didn't make it right.

Many things are not right, like a guild full of steathers. But yet there out there...