JUST A THOUGHT!

[Baby Doll]

OKIES how about this idea:


Say I4NI had an unused 18x18 plot. Link it to say I4NI Yewgate house. Lock down a set of portals, commodity box, and a rune book with the vendors I know. Give each member 500k to start. Had at least 3 suits and jewels per new char. in guild. Get icq (lol) from them and invite them out privately to a party in DOOM? No allies, no committee no protection>?

 

[EvilIan]

You mean like this:

I would just worry about wasting a lot of money on potential guilds that aren't committed.

 

[Baby Doll]

You mean like this:

I would just worry about wasting a lot of money on potential guilds that aren't committed.

Ok your guild was a group of 12? About how many mils did the guild use up? From nothing to when you could stand on your own.

Also out of couiosity. Could your guild with skills around 80 ish take down Doom (Dark father and Guantlet)?
If you could, would one week in Doom with protection have let you get arties on your own ? And would you sale them to the Siege community for the gold ya needed to stay here?

 

[FrejaSP]

To the other points, aren't those points kinda leading us back to a NEW2 kind of program which is currently having issues? I not a full backer on NEW2 program, but they have done some good on the shard. Not sure on the NEW2 status, if someone knows please enlighten me.

What is you thinking about?
The status of NEW2 is fine, we have around 30 young Siege players and they are doing fine
I should also mean we have the support from the shard, else there is something I don't know.
We had a little issue around the IDOC, but think that is solved with the leaders of the guild involded.
If you do have a problem with the way I run NEW2, lets get it out in the light so we can debat it and find a solusion.

 

[FrejaSP]

You mean like this:

I would just worry about wasting a lot of money on potential guilds that aren't committed.

Really it's Siege. Giving this items and mills to a new guild is not a good idea. If we make it to easy, the guild won't have the joy of the team work needed to make it here.

I like Baby Dolls idea about a house
A house with access to portals, commodity box, crafting add-ons, boxes with starting gear LRC/mage suit, spellbooks, Warrior suit and weapons, and a rune book with the vendors would be better. Maybe a tools back for the crafters too.

Make the guild leaders of the new guild co-owners of the house and let them borrow it for 2-4 weeks, depending of how fast they are getting their own guildhouse and needed items.

I don't think alot gold is needed, really not that hard to make. Maybe some gold, like 10k for each guildmember.

After 2-4 weeks, they should have their own house and a new young guild can borrow the house.

Each large guild could have 1-2 of this kind of welcomst houses for guilds of 10 + players

 

[chise2]

Really it's Siege. Giving this items and mills to a new guild is not a good idea. If we make it to easy, the guild won't have the joy of the team work needed to make it here.

I like Baby Dolls idea about a house
A house with access to portals, commodity box, crafting add-ons, boxes with starting gear LRC/mage suit, spellbooks, Warrior suit and weapons, and a rune book with the vendors would be better. Maybe a tools back for the crafters too.

Make the guild leaders of the new guild co-owners of the house and let them borrow it for 2-4 weeks, depending of how fast they are getting their own guildhouse and needed items.

I don't think alot gold is needed, really not that hard to make. Maybe some gold, like 10k for each guildmember.

After 2-4 weeks, they should have their own house and a new young guild can borrow the house.

Each large guild could have 1-2 of this kind of welcomst houses for guilds of 10 + players

Yeah I agree I like the house idea better. I think Ian brought up some good points but yeah if you just hand guilds all that stuff free their wonlt be the sense of accomplishment the sense of actually having to work for something. Not to mention what happens if we hand a guild all that stuff millions of dollars worth of valuable stuff then bam a couple weeks later we are all saying hey want happened to that one guild? People would be pretty upset and not likely to agree to do such a program again. That being said I think maybe closer to 50k per member wouldn;t be out of line. And maybe some starting resources. Nothing insane of course not going to hand them 60k of each resource. But maybe a 1000 cloth 1000 ingots 1000 wood some scrolls and regs. Not a ton of each but just something to get them started. They would still have to farm anfd buy up more but it would be a start.

 

[Baby Doll]

GOLD then is now the issue! An incomming guild just finished saying that GOLD was very important. So for us here on Siege to respond with naw you really don't need gold, it isn't really the correct way to go about it in my opinion. No I do not wish to hand mils over to a unknown guild.

We do need to think differently then we have though. Yes we have a new guild on shard but seriously (no disrespect here) when was the last guild to transfer here and how long did they stay? When ya say "Really it's Siege", whats that mean? Does keeping the ole ways of Siege alive and well conflict with bringing in new pvpers?

PvPers for instance: We are asking fighting toons, with top of the line gear, gold, etc.., and others to pvp with to drop thier established shard. Move here to Siege and go shear some sheep for a few gold coin? No, they have pvp spirits and want to pvp. While I can see them trying us out for a month, they will not stay to much longer if they don't get better stuff and get into pvp quicker. Do the PVPers here run with basic lrc suits? I get the thought of, well I am not giving away my mils for a unknown guild. So what can we on Siege give a up if anything?

Just throwning this in again here. This gets back to the safe dungeon idea. If DOOM were safe for one week for the new guild(s) hit that.

1.) We would see rather quickly thier resolve for staying on Siege, if they take advantage, plenty of gold to be made off arties. I know I would pay mils for a new uncursed Ornie. What else would community want in arties from Doom? I think Siege would have plenty of buyers.

2.) Yes we are giving them a week of protection. What is the cost of that to us?

Okies CRITICIZE away.....!

 

[Baby Doll]

What is you thinking about?
The status of NEW2 is fine, we have around 30 young Siege players and they are doing fine
I should also mean we have the support from the shard, else there is something I don't know.
We had a little issue around the IDOC, but think that is solved with the leaders of the guild involded.
If you do have a problem with the way I run NEW2, lets get it out in the light so we can debat it and find a solusion.

Sweet glad to hear it is has been/being successful. I had doubts about the program working in the beginning. I was courious about how the shard was was supporting it? How did you get the support of guilds? I do not recall I4NI saying you had our support? I do not ask this in a nasty way. I am thinking of how would I know if the shard is behind a new program.

All shards have haters and yes I have heard some slamming of NEW2 and how it no longer alive, so to speak.

I am not trying to fight with you about NEW2. I am just trying to gather all kinds of info.

 

[SpyderBite]

I was courious about how the shard was was supporting it? How did you get the support of guilds?

Freja can correct me if I'm wrong. But I
Believe majority of the support NEW2 (as well as the previous NEW over the years) comes from individuals as opposed to guilds. At least from a supply/monetary stance.

Agreement on the guidelines of NEW(2) members has always been a community effort vs. a "this group supports NEW and this one doesn't".

Sort of apples and oranges in regards to what is being discussed in this thread. Similar, but not the same thing.

 

[Baby Doll]

Freja can correct me if I'm wrong. But I
Believe majority of the support NEW2 (as well as the previous NEW over the years) comes from individuals as opposed to guilds. At least from a supply/monetary stance.

Agreement on the guidelines of NEW(2) members has always been a community effort vs. a "this group supports NEW and this one doesn't".

Sort of apples and oranges in regards to what is being discussed in this thread. Similar, but not the same thing.

I have been on this shard for many years. I myself and I4NI members have donated to both NEWs. I am aware the NEWs have a gold supply but is there guilds supporting NEW2 in saying we will not kill or greif, etc..? And as to the apples and oranges comment, maybe I want to mix them together in a blender with ice for smooothies! You never know where new ideas can come from and it never hurts to ask. Ty for your input.

 

[Afterglow]

(...) I think Ian brought up some good points but yeah if you just hand guilds all that stuff free their wonlt be the sense of accomplishment the sense of actually having to work for something. (...)

exactly, this echoes the posting I made before.

Sweet glad to hear it is has been/being successful. I had doubts about the program working in the beginning. I was courious about how the shard was was supporting it? How did you get the support of guilds? I do not recall I4NI saying you had our support? I do not ask this in a nasty way. I am thinking of how would I know if the shard is behind a new program.

I'm sure the point here is the positive connection of a name of the person behind the project of NEW2. Freja was leading NEW before Shalimar took over. She proved her experience and has a clean name to Siege helping people out and do the shard good in general, not just single groups.

It was the same for the Abyss house when Kelmo stood up with us in his back to claim the house for Siege. An unknown/questionable person would have been no competitioner in the bidding


The idea with the house is a nice one, not sure if guilds would take it up but worth a try.

(...) When ya say "Really it's Siege", whats that mean? Does keeping the ole ways of Siege alive and well conflict with bringing in new pvpers?

PvPers for instance: We are asking fighting toons, with top of the line gear, gold, etc.., and others to pvp with to drop thier established shard. Move here to Siege and go shear some sheep for a few gold coin? No, they have pvp spirits and want to pvp. While I can see them trying us out for a month, they will not stay to much longer if they don't get better stuff and get into pvp quicker. Do the PVPers here run with basic lrc suits? I get the thought of, well I am not giving away my mils for a unknown guild. So what can we on Siege give a up if anything? (...)

When I read this I honestly have to doubt the whole idea. To me it just reads like "get us more PvP to Siege"...how many times does that have to be spoken out loud?
PvP is a minority on Siege, no doubt an important one. Also I'd like to differ between PvP and just PK here what would make the minority even smaller!

Is this project supposed to be in general interest or a group interest?

 

[Baby Doll]

General interest to Siege I get tired of sayiing, PvM and PvP throughout, so in that post I limited the example to PvP. Was not intending to start a fight, just to continue ideas.

So for the politically correct red necks out there I will now use the term : PvE >>>Player verses Environment guilds. See now I am kinda trying to start a fight! Get the difference?

 

[FrejaSP]

Sweet glad to hear it is has been/being successful. I had doubts about the program working in the beginning. I was courious about how the shard was was supporting it? How did you get the support of guilds? I do not recall I4NI saying you had our support? I do not ask this in a nasty way. I am thinking of how would I know if the shard is behind a new program.

All shards have haters and yes I have heard some slamming of NEW2 and how it no longer alive, so to speak.

I am not trying to fight with you about NEW2. I am just trying to gather all kinds of info.

There had always been drama on Siege and I think you are trying to start a drama now

I don't have to prove anything to you. I put lots of time in NEW2 and I love it. I love see young players grow up and make it here.

Support is many thing, it's not just donating of alot of stuff.

When players bring new chars to NEW2, it show they support what we are doing.

When I run out of spellbooks and ask in gen char, if anyone have a few and in short time get 20 spellbooks from 3 different players, it show they support what we are doing.

Sure the shard may have different views on how I should run NEW2 and I guess your guys never will agree.

When I graduate a char who made it 30 active days on Siege and now have house and friends here, I see it as a success.

I don't know why you try to start a drame about NEW2 but I know, it doing nothing good for the shard.

 

[Baby Doll]

I am not trying to start DRAMA, if I turely wanted DRAMA on Siege with NEW2 I would encourage I4NI target NEW2 and dry loot thier lame ass at every turn. Ya don't see that happening do ya?


Note to self: Don't speak about NEW2 overly senseitive subject.

 

[FrejaSP]

Why would you do that to new players if it's me you have an issue with. *Shake head*
Lets stop it here and go on with the good ideas in this thread.

 

[Baby Doll]

Why would you do that to new players if it's me you have an issue with. *Shake head*
Lets stop it here and go on with the good ideas in this thread.

You accussed me of drama, which I was not after. That was an example that IF I wanted drama I would have it.

 

[Baby Doll]

Nods to stopping! We are now off topic. Continue on with the ideas all. I am logging for the day. Cyas later!

 

[EvilIan]

Trying to return to the topic of the OP, I think the question of sense of accomplishment vs. being handed everything is very important.

At the beginning, I didn't want any help other than a full spellbook and an LRC suit. Then I realized that I was used to the tools of crystal portals and commodity deed boxes and I was constantly stressing about not having what I needed. I came to the conclusion that building a character from scratch in a harsh environment was enough of a challenge.

Striking the right balance is key. I don't think a teleporter, a set of portals and a commodity deed box is going to ruin the Siege experience for anyone. 3m each for a group of 10 might. I'm just suggesting enough money to buy some raw materials, low level power/stat scrolls and a decent suit (plus inevitable replacements).

I personally would be willing to monetarily support such a plan, assuming some sort of screening process is used to identify groups that are serious about giving Siege a try.

 

[FrejaSP]

Giving out alot of goodies will draw the wrong kind of players. I had seen alot players make it here in all the years I had been on Siege. I don't think giving them alot handout = better chance that they will stay.
Sure it will be harder for a group of PvP players without crafters and farmers. If someone want to donate mills to PvP only players, then fine with me but the day will come, where the mills are used up and they start dying and don't know how to replace their lost items.

A guild who start with both PvP'ers, farmers and crafters won't need alot of start help and they will still be able to replace their items after the handout are used up and they are on their own.
I could make Welcome to Siege boxes with godies and hand them out to new joined NEW2 members and I'm sure I would see alot more join NEW but after a day or two, they would go inactive as they was not really new but just a fake new joining to get the hand out for their main char.

I really don't believe more would stay active for 30 days.

 

[Tjalle]

Not sure on the NEW2 status, if someone knows please enlighten me.

How do you mean?

Edit: Sorry, replied to you before I noticed there was a page 2. Ignore my reply.

 

[T'Challa]

I wish I had the time to tell you guys about all the I^A members that came here with *zilch* and scratched out an entire city complete with murders, marriages, and at times, wanton mayhem. Hell, we even had our own tax collector!

Cloth, leather, and lumber folks. If you farm it, they will buy it. With imbuing materials these days you can probably make even more money than we did in a shorter amount of time.

Also, PvP'ers may want the topnotch gear right away, but they are elitists. PK's don't need a single GM skill to be effective on Siege. Just a few smarts and a bit of luck.

I guess all I'm saying is, I'm against handouts. They never work, they foster a "gimme" attitude, and the folks you hand out to generally don't stick around. The ones that stick around are the ones that claw their way up the Siege ladder.

 

[SpyderBite]

I guess all I'm saying is, I'm against handouts. They never work, they foster a "gimme" attitude, and the folks you hand out to generally don't stick around. The ones that stick around are the ones that claw their way up the Siege ladder.

This is what I was thinking since the first post. Just didn't want the drama card thrown at me.

More guilds is great. And it sounds like the guild from Cats has done pretty well on their own. Why are the training wheels necessary to lure more guilds over to Siege? Shouldn't the success of the Cats guild speak for itself?

 

[Baby Doll]

This is what I was thinking since the first post. Just didn't want the drama card thrown at me.

More guilds is great. And it sounds like the guild from Cats has done pretty well on their own. Why are the training wheels necessary to lure more guilds over to Siege? Shouldn't the success of the Cats guild speak for itself?

LOL Again the guilds from Cats did awesome. But who can tell me the last guild who transferred here and stayed in the last year?

Honestly though, I have already explained that this was just ideas being talked about with others. Don't worry your lil head about these these comming true, again it will never ever happen. Idea is just to big with to many unknowns to risk. Most people chatting in this thread knew it would not work and chose to continue on, because who knows, maybe some good could have come out of it. Again it was a discussional thread. Besides its not really going anywhere from here. It's all been said I believe. I appreciated those that were at least willing to think on things here and give constructed critizism. I enjoyed the feedback of differences of opinons!

 

[chise2]

LOL Again the guilds from Cats did awesome. But who can tell me the last guild who transferred here and stayed in the last year?

Honestly though, I have already explained that this was just ideas being talked about with others. Don't worry your lil head about these these comming true, again it will never ever happen. Idea is just to big with to many unknowns to risk. Most people chatting in this thread knew it would not work and chose to continue on, because who knows, maybe some good could have come out of it. Again it was a discussional thread. Besides its not really going anywhere from here. It's all been said I believe. I appreciated those that were at least willing to think on things here and give constructed critizism. I enjoyed the feedback of differences of opinons!

Nah I think we could get something going here we just need to not give up. I understand peoples reluctantance in giving people a ton of things. I think we at least all agree on that. BUt I donlt think a temp house with access to a portal and comm box is too much. Or a bit of starting gold and resources and maybe basic suits for all the members. YEs ideally guilds will do it all on their own. But we have to face the fact that we need people on Siege we need to entice guilds to come here and if that means giving them a bit of extra help I donlt see what the problem is with that. I think we all agree we shouldn;t hand them everything they ever need they will still need to train farm gold and all that. But a little boost might encourage them to stick around. The safe dungeon idea I think is ok the main issue is that its not like you can;t hunt safely most of the time. But yeah I like some of these ideas I think we could come up with something to try out.

 

[Baby Doll]

Well chise2, (and all), then how about eraseing most of the ideas up to here and rethink minute. I knowticed a posting from a Luvmyface from the guild from Cats. She said her visit here and the fun she had at a EM event was what basiclly started it all. So if we wanted PvE guilds to at least look at Siege, is there a way we could throw a weekend event doing things like a dungeon crawl or white net day. Maybe get our EM to clear a day for us. Do a x shard invite, maybe prizes or something? What would we need to do to get people to entertain the idea of comming and spending a day with us? Problem is we of Siege want this, lol , so what would make it xtra cool event?

Please keep in mind that this is still just talking about ideas, so no one need panic about the sky falling in on Siege, constructive feedback appreciated! Thanks!

 

[chise2]

Bringing up Ians other points. I do think it would be useful to have a sticky post detailing how ROT works and how to get the most out of it using alacs and such. Not to mention having an up to date where to shop list. I know there was one started I gotta post in hehe. Not to mention I would also add we seriously need an updated price list stickied. I like the idea too of a come to Siege event to get people excitied

 

[stmac1988]

New single players who come over can join and get assistance from NEW2 as well as other players they meet with in-game. What if a incoming guild had a tag of XFR1, XFR2, etc... meaning transfer guild(number). They'd have their own identity for a while and be immediately recognizable to established guilds/players. Maybe give them a 2 or 3 month immunity from pk similar to those that sport the NEW2 tag. They could be assisted by any like-minded guilds or even allied. After their 'protected' status is up they could change their guild name and see where it goes from there.... And yes the new Cats guild is doing fine on their own, hope you all stay for the long haul!

2-3 months is a bit extensive, when i first started on Siege i was in NEW for maybe a week roughly if that cant remember precisely, before i was out on my own and had about an 8-10 man guild by my second or third week playing, although that guild has spread amongst the shard due to my lack of attention(due to real life issues) but like i was saying 2-3 months is to long if i can do what i did in the time i did someone else could atleast accomplish half of what i did in a month. Which seems a more suitable amount of time.

 

[Rothen]

Y

2-3 months is a bit extensive, when i first started on Siege i was in NEW for maybe a week roughly if that cant remember precisely, before i was out on my own and had about an 8-10 man guild by my second or third week playing, although that guild has spread amongst the shard due to my lack of attention(due to real life issues) but like i was saying 2-3 months is to long if i can do what i did in the time i did someone else could atleast accomplish half of what i did in a month. Which seems a more suitable amount of time.
Yeah that is probably too long. Was thinking of all of the crafting and other skills that take some time to train. It actually would go quicker here on Siege for them with ROT. I do like the house idea that's been discussed here, I'd support that with a portal or whatever was needed.

 

[Luvmylace]

LOL Again the guilds from Cats did awesome. But who can tell me the last guild who transferred here and stayed in the last year?

Honestly though, I have already explained that this was just ideas being talked about with others. Don't worry your lil head about these these comming true, again it will never ever happen. Idea is just to big with to many unknowns to risk. Most people chatting in this thread knew it would not work and chose to continue on, because who knows, maybe some good could have come out of it. Again it was a discussional thread. Besides its not really going anywhere from here. It's all been said I believe. I appreciated those that were at least willing to think on things here and give constructed critizism. I enjoyed the feedback of differences of opinons!

Lot's to consider here.
Maybe the things that you cannot provide here are the real answer as to why a guild comes and why it stays. Plus the Challenge of the shard itself.
Honestly all it takes is a plot and the hint of a good time that makes it so contagious to the rest of the guild. It was the right thing at the right time that set the wheels in motion . I think offering a great deal of "stuff" is not the answer. What made UO great was the unknown ,having to scratch out an existence and finding your way. The great fun of Siege is not walking into a dungeon and pwning it but finding out you can't (the heart pounding fear that makes your hands shake LOL)and working at getting better .If you hand it to a guild they won't appreciate it at all. Starting a Character over to match the shard is also a challenge .Learning to lose stuff again ...a shocker at first. Honestly some will not be able to adapt to not having the Uber equipment; but Oh well you don't want that kind anyway.
Also it depends on the players and what they expect vs what really happens and if they are able to adapt from prodo shards and take the challenge.So,....
the best investment will be word of mouth and a small handout like the NEW2 guild is doing.Maybe your advertisement should be all that "Come and see what it was like 15 yrs ago ;we will help with the basics" or something of that nature.
keep the mystery in and your gold in your bank

 

[Baby Doll]

Bringing up Ians other points. I do think it would be useful to have a sticky post detailing how ROT works and how to get the most out of it using alacs and such. Not to mention having an up to date where to shop list. I know there was one started I gotta post in hehe. Not to mention I would also add we seriously need an updated price list stickied. I like the idea too of a come to Siege event to get people excitied

I agree on a sticky for a well defined ROT rules would be a help and a brief run down of alacrity scrolls. Yes someone needs to do something with places to shop. lol WE still have not placed our shop in there. hehe Not so much likeing a sticky on prices, at times prices fluctuate to greatly on Siege IMO.

 

[Afterglow]

Lot's to consider here.
Maybe the things that you cannot provide here are the real answer as to why a guild comes and why it stays. Plus the Challenge of the shard itself.
Honestly all it takes is a plot and the hint of a good time that makes it so contagious to the rest of the guild. It was the right thing at the right time that set the wheels in motion . I think offering a great deal of "stuff" is not the answer. What made UO great was the unknown ,having to scratch out an existence and finding your way. The great fun of Siege is not walking into a dungeon and pwning it but finding out you can't (the heart pounding fear that makes your hands shake LOL)and working at getting better .If you hand it to a guild they won't appreciate it at all. Starting a Character over to match the shard is also a challenge .Learning to lose stuff again ...a shocker at first. Honestly some will not be able to adapt to not having the Uber equipment; but Oh well you don't want that kind anyway.
Also it depends on the players and what they expect vs what really happens and if they are able to adapt from prodo shards and take the challenge.So,....
the best investment will be word of mouth and a small handout like the NEW2 guild is doing.Maybe your advertisement should be all that "Come and see what it was like 15 yrs ago ;we will help with the basics" or something of that nature.
keep the mystery in and your gold in your bank

 

[Afterglow]

Bringing up Ians other points. I do think it would be useful to have a sticky post detailing how ROT works and how to get the most out of it using alacs and such. Not to mention having an up to date where to shop list. I know there was one started I gotta post in hehe. Not to mention I would also add we seriously need an updated price list stickied. I like the idea too of a come to Siege event to get people excitied

I also agree on that point as everyone will I guess
Some "get to know Siege for a day" event (maybe with support from above) might help to attract fresh blood. Though I'm against special items handed out as this would attract the wrong people that day.
A (sticky) post that sums up what makes Siege different from prodo for the lazy ones - something that is missing on the board imo.
The idea of a tall house to borrow new guilds to start out close to moongate, most what Baby Doll summarizes up here is a good idea to try out and see (post cut down the parts I agree on):

Say I4NI had an unused 18x18 plot. Link it to say I4NI Yewgate house. Lock down a set of portals, commodity box, and a rune book with the vendors I know.