Jeremy, I have two questions for five on Friday please.

[o2bavr6]

Breath damage from a greater dragon [wild] against 70 fire resist, does around 60 damage. The breath damage is based on the remaining hp of the dragon. The normal formula is (Base damage=HP/10).

For a greater dragon that has around 2k HP this means something like 200. Then you apply your fire resist and you should only receive 30% of that Base Damage, that is 60.

Now, considering that upon taming the hp of greater dragons is halved, the maximum damage a greater dragon [tamed] can inflict with its firebreath should be 30 against 70 fire resist. To receive 90 damage from a firebreath you should have around 10 fire resist.

I personally dont care if they leave GD's the way they are for PvM. But in PvP i have 89 Fire Resist on my suit and the Dragon Breath does around 80HP of damage.

I don't think there would be a problem with the GD's the way they are now in PvP if there was no guard zone for the tamer to hide in.

You see what happens is that the tamer sicks the pet on the REd, at the same time a stealth archer dismounts the red. Now the Red is dismounted, bleeding and redlined on less than 1 second.

If the GD didn't do 80+HP plus the bleed in one hit, it wouldn't be so bad. But they do.

Maybe the only way to resolve this is for the tamer to have to have the maximun skill points in real skill, without items to raise their skill.

Again I say this for PvP only, I couldn't care less about PvM.

 

[Lord Kotan]

If by "immediate" you mean "in the next patch," then no, not that I'm aware of. Our plate's pretty full for 55.

When is 55?

 

[Mechanic]

For Siege, ROT is first. Beyond that, we'll probably take the temperature of the community again.

For the dragons, pet balance in general is definitely on the list.

where do you plan on putting the thermometer? because lately it feels like it has not been in the ear or under the tongue. Siege needs love too

 

[Yalp]

You see what happens is that the tamer sicks the pet on the REd, at the same time a stealth archer dismounts the red. Now the Red is dismounted, bleeding and redlined on less than 1 second.

Are you not now going 2 + pet against 1? How is this an issue of overpower of the GD? This is basically 1v3. Sounds like you are calling for the ability for 1 to defeat 3. Maybe I missread you.

I've been taking strolls around fel side and champ spawns.. I admit I wear glasses.. but they aren't special x-ray specs that hide all the Tamer/GD combos. They simply aren't there! Tamers and GD are NOT taking over pvp. Period. End of story.

God I hope EA is smarter than to listen to the vocal complainers on this forum.. but sadly.. I feel they are not. Squeaky wheel and all.

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Breath damage from a greater dragon [wild] against 70 fire resist, does around 60 damage. The breath damage is based on the remaining hp of the dragon. The normal formula is (Base damage=HP/10).

For a greater dragon that has around 2k HP this means something like 200. Then you apply your fire resist and you should only receive 30% of that Base Damage, that is 60.

Now, considering that upon taming the hp of greater dragons is halved, the maximum damage a greater dragon [tamed] can inflict with its firebreath should be 30 against 70 fire resist. To receive 90 damage from a firebreath you should have around 10 fire resist.

Have you ever PvPed against a greater dragon? Have you ever PvMed against one?

I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers but I can tell you from experience your numbers are wrong.

 

[Ailish]

Have you ever PvPed against a greater dragon? Have you ever PvMed against one?

I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers but I can tell you from experience your numbers are wrong.

Yes, I have done BOTH, and I also have PvM'd and PvP'd WITH one. Wild GD's hit 100% consistent 60 dmg on firebreath against 70 resist. Not 59, not 61, but 60 EVERY SINGLE TIME. That was using the Sorcerer Suit, not fire on my jewels, so exactly 70 fire resist.

PvM with a GD ... they make great tanks because of their high HP, however, they are not particularly faster at killing things. An example: I was hunting lesser hiryus two days ago. Using a cu sidhe the hiryus died very quickly, but I did have to vet the dog often. Using a GD the hiryus lasted ALOT longer, but I did not need to vet so often. This is true in most situations. THe GD is not the end all, it is just a tank.

PvP against a GD: I dont die all that often, unless I am blocked. I dont recall EVER having lost 90 hp in one shot to one. EVER. That is using a tamer, a dexer or a mage.

PvP with a GD: Sometimes I get lucky and kill someone quickly. Usually the outrun my drag and I call it back. Sometimes I manage to assist in a kill. Usually I am dead and my drag is wandering around sniffing things.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Yes, I have done BOTH, and I also have PvM'd and PvP'd WITH one. Wild GD's hit 100% consistent 60 dmg on firebreath against 70 resist. Not 59, not 61, but 60 EVERY SINGLE TIME. That was using the Sorcerer Suit, not fire on my jewels, so exactly 70 fire resist.

PvM with a GD ... they make great tanks because of their high HP, however, they are not particularly faster at killing things. An example: I was hunting lesser hiryus two days ago. Using a cu sidhe the hiryus died very quickly, but I did have to vet the dog often. Using a GD the hiryus lasted ALOT longer, but I did not need to vet so often. This is true in most situations. THe GD is not the end all, it is just a tank.

PvP against a GD: I dont die all that often, unless I am blocked. I dont recall EVER having lost 90 hp in one shot to one. EVER. That is using a tamer, a dexer or a mage.

PvP with a GD: Sometimes I get lucky and kill someone quickly. Usually the outrun my drag and I call it back. Sometimes I manage to assist in a kill. Usually I am dead and my drag is wandering around sniffing things.

I don't know what to tell you then because I am routinely hit for 90.

I'm not always at 70 fire, sometimes it might be 65 but that doesn't seem to matter. It also doesn't matter if they are wild or tamed. As long as they are at full health, it's 90.

 

[Ailish]

I suspect that it may not be the firebreath that is getting you, then. Just because a dragon uses the firebreath *graphic* does not mean that is the attack it is doing. The mele damage off a GD can be wicked mean if you have low physical (and even 70 phys is kinda rough). But then, what do you expect when it has 130 wrestle/tacts?

 

[Eslake]

I was reminded of this thread a few minutes ago when my Miner yet again managed to not only evade death to a GD but to kill the tamer controlling it.
( but this time I lost both my packy and fire beetle, so maybe they're learning )

Honestly, I find it very difficult to keep a straight face and not poke fun at people claiming to be proficient at PvP and at the same time complaining about these dragons.

A serious PvPer has 720 points in offense and defense.
My tamer has GM Magery. (peace and music but not enough to work on GDs)

Tamed GDs cap at around 970hp and <100 fire breath.
Wild GDs cap at about 1940hp and >190 fire breath.

But the PvPers are claiming Tamed GDs are too powerful, while my tamer can survive the taming process against wild ones.

I admit I still die about every 2nd greater dragon, but that is still a 50% win rate against dragons twice as powerful while having none of the defensive skill.

It just doesn't make any sense.
(and no, I'm not Honor-taming, I got tired of trying to keep honor high enough)


But still as I said, if they cap the GD's fire breath at 20% more than a normal dragon's max (for PvP), I won't complain.

 

[Lore Master]

Jeremy please if your going it to nerf greater dragons in pvp please do it in a way if possible that doesn't nerf greater dragons in pvm. i do not pvp but i pvm and i think greater dragons are fine the way they are in pvm thanks.

 

[Redxpanda]

...Like maybe a way to make your armor flame retardant.

 

[Llewen]

I still say people are drastically overrating GDs in PvP since I have no trouble dealing with them at all.
(and as Yalp says, if they are so overpowered in PvP why isn't Fel crawling with them?)

But if breath weapon is the big issue, I have no problem if they nerf it to say.. 20% more than a Normal dragon's for PvP.

The problem is, they won't do that.
They always overshoot the Needed reduction on things by orders of magnitude. Then they have to follow with nerfs to other skills and abilities in order to "rebalance."

Exactly. I don't have a problem with greater dragon fire breath being weakened in pvp. However, whenever the dread word "balance" starts being thrown around you just know someone is going to use a nuke where a hammer was all that was needed. What was done to pet balls is a fine example. Even the ones that hated pet balls the most weren't calling for the nerfing the devs laid down. They are still useful, but just barely.

I suspect that if greater dragon fire breath is nerfed, so will the fire breath for every fire breathing pet out there, and dread warhorses will be turned into a "stuffy warhorse" that gives your character warm efuzzies when you squeeze it. And that probably won't be the full extent of it either, and the final result will be that pets are essentially rendered ineffective in pvp, with serious consequences for their effectiveness in pvm as well.

All this would make some people very happy I'm sure.

 

[Nexus]

And this is where the logic of the consumate Tamer is fatally flawed.

Why should a Tamer be more powerful than ANY other class in the game?

A meleer should be able to tank just as well as any pet. Having a Tamer around shouldn't be a requirement to engage in high end PvM.

ok and your meleer has how many hit points ? maybe 150
my dragon has what 800+

what are you thinking ? a mellee'r should be the same as that ? whatever. my dragon better eat you before you even blink at that ratio.

It's not a matter of Hit points. Some people don't have the time, or dedication to do a full fledged tamer, Tamers aren't as versatile as dexxers anyway their movement is to an extent is limited by the movement speed of their pets (especially with Greater Dragons and the Pet Summing Ball Changes) Dexxers are a faster paced more engaging (read that as challenging) template to play for the most part. Why should a more complex template be under powered when compared to one that requires minimal input from the person behind the keyboard. Granted I don't mind tamers having the high damage output pets they do as I know the time involved in developing a tamer, on the same note I don't think Dexxers should be considered 2nd best or under rated in ability to take on and manage high end spawns that a Tamer can.

 

[Llewen]

Tamers aren't as versatile as dexxers anyway their movement is to an extent is limited by the movement speed of their pets (especially with Greater Dragons and the Pet Summing Ball Changes) Dexxers are a faster paced more engaging (read that as challenging) template to play for the most part. Why should a more complex template be under powered when compared to one that requires minimal input from the person behind the keyboard.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but I can tell you that my mage tamer is far more complicated and demanding to play in just about every way than my main dexxer. My tamer is also far easier to kill, although when things go well my tamer's kills tend to be more spectacular. However, when it comes down to kd ratios, I expect in the long term my dexxer is going to have a much better kd ratio than my tamer, and I have spent less than a tenth of the time and effort developing my dexxer when compared to the time and effort I have put into developing my tamer.

 

[Kat]

Jeremy please if your going it to nerf greater dragons in pvp please do it in a way if possible that doesn't nerf greater dragons in pvm. i do not pvp but i pvm and i think greater dragons are fine the way they are in pvm thanks.

Just make Greater Dragons non-tamable and let the PvMer's kill them. Problem solved.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

I suspect that it may not be the firebreath that is getting you, then. Just because a dragon uses the firebreath *graphic* does not mean that is the attack it is doing. The mele damage off a GD can be wicked mean if you have low physical (and even 70 phys is kinda rough). But then, what do you expect when it has 130 wrestle/tacts?

It would be very difficult for their melee damage to affect me since I don't get anywhere near them unless you count two screens away as "near".

It is the 90 damage fire breath from two screens away (or more) that needs balancing. Nothing else, just breath damage in PvP only.

 

[Omnius]

pet specials in general need to be re-evaluated in pvp. why should 225 skill points and a bola make you better than 720 skill points, and a 200+mill gold suit.

 

[Llewen]

pet specials in general need to be re-evaluated in pvp. why should 225 skill points and a bola make you better than 720 skill points, and a 200+mill gold suit.

You clearly know nothing about pvp'ing as a tamer.

And even though it isn't related, if a 200 mil suit is what is required to be competitive in pvp, something is clearly wrong with the game. Thankfully though, even though a really nice suit helps, it isn't essential. I do quite well, on both a tamer and a dexxer, with suits that aren't worth anywhere near that.

 

[Ailish]

I have yet to figure out why someone would BOTHER with a 200 mil suit. My dexer wears decent armor - nice even! Legs of Bane (got myself) RBC (got myself with BR turn-in), Folded Steel (purchased for 8 mil) and some LMC/MR 2 stuff that was given to me. My resists are all over 65. My jewels came from Mel's and other peerless.

My mage - HoM and Orni were given to me by a leaving player, AoF I got myself, the rest was armor gotten from doing BODs and burning Bkits.

I would never spend 200 mil on armor and/or weps. It is stupid to do so.

Oh, and my tamer uses the Sorcerer's Suit, even when PvPing

 

[Llewen]

I have yet to figure out why someone would BOTHER with a 200 mil suit.

I would never spend 200 mil on armor and/or weps. It is stupid to do so.

Well, I must admit, I have spent a lot of gold and some real $$ trying to perfect my pvp tamer's suit. I know I've spent over 100 mil on barbed kits trying to make those last two perfect pieces (should I have been banned for buying kits that were obviously scripted? probably, but that's a topic for another thread)...

HOWEVER, with that 100 mil I have spent on barbed kits, I have equipped more than a dozen of my own characters, and given away much more of it, and even sold a piece or two. I still haven't found that last perfect piece, but I've moved on to trying to equip my fencer, and haven't really been in a position to buy a barbed kit for quite some time.

I do have one piece of armour that would likely be worth a great deal to the right buyer, on my tamer, but to be honest, I don't really know how much that would be. I should post on the trading forum for a price check.