Is there a comprehensive guide about what Runic tools to use for what task ?

[popps]

I have been trying to find a comprehensive Guide about Runic tools but the ones I found seem to be a bit outdated and not take into account the current status of Ultima Online with the most updated changes.

For example, I seem to understand that runic copper and runic spined are to be used for reforging and that valorite hammers are to be used for reforging but only for necklaces of gargoyles, not anything else.

Since this is all confusing, sure, there is posts out there giving out bits and pieces of info but I imagine how hard it may be for a new player, or even a returning player to the game, or a player who just is not much knowledged about crafting to gather a lot of info split a bit here and a bit there, I was wondering whether there may be a current comprehensive list of all of the various runic tools, for blacksmithying, tailoring, masonry, tinkering (Gargoyle necklaces and amulets are tinker items, right ? But can be reforged with a smithy runic hammer, right?), bowyering etc.

Basically, a Guide starting from the lower runics all the way up to the highest runics telling what each runic is suggested to be used and for what.

For example, one could well reforge a weapon using a valorite smithy hammer rather than a copper hammer but this is generally not adviced because of the end results.
Not well knowledged players about crafting might erroneously think that since a valorite hammer is the best one, they would be better off using that instead of a copper one to reforge an item and make such a mistake.

Having such a comprehensive Guide available, might avoid to players not knowledged about the current status of crafting in the game expensive mistakes.

Does anyone know whether any such a Guide might be available ?

Thanks.

 

[Tuan]

There is not, to my knowedge a guide. There is, however, the instructions for how to figure it out for yourself.

Look at Semmerset's charts. There's also some charts telling what total property intensities the higher runics give. Based on those, you CAN, figure it out. This is not a theortical statement. I have managed to figure it out, so can you.

There are other uses for Valorite hammers than garg necklaces. You're just relying on the RNG and not by being able to choose what title your item will have. On TC I've reforged some awesome shields using val hammers... it just took hundreds of charges before I got one I would want to use on my melee guy.

If you feel like you can't manage to reforge something without such a guide, then perhaps you can compile it...

 

[CorwinXX]

Reforging. How to

 

[popps]

Reforging. How to

Thanks CorwinXX, I know the guide about reforging but I was more referring to a comprehensive Guide about all possible uses for runic tools, not just reforging.

I imagine a new UO player, or one just coming back to the game after years, or perhaps just a current player who is not knowledged much about runic crafting feeling lost when facing all of the runic tools existing and their possible uses.

That a runic tool may be used for something, it does not mean that such use is advisable or an efficient one.

Therefore, a player collecting BODs, or doing quests for runics might be at risk of using wrongly their hard obtained runics for lack of informations.

As Tuan indicates, the informations are "hidden" out there, bits here, bits there spread all over Stratics' posts or pages, but they are not easy to be combined together and sometimes they may be contradicting one another increasing a player's confusion...

That is why I was hoping that a comprehensive guide for all runic tools best use existed.
One that listed each runic (smithy, tailor, masonry, fletching etc.) indicating what would be the best possible use for that particular runic to avoid wasting charges.

For example, one that listed :
Blacksmith Dull Copper Runic Hammer --> Best advisable use is for............, reasons for this because........
Blacksmith Shadow Runic Hammer --> Best advisable use is for............, reasons for this because........

and so forth...

Of course runics can be used in many various ways, I am just trying to find out their most proper, their most efficient possible uses. I think this could be of a great help to new, returning players or current players just not much knowledged about crafting.

 

[CorwinXX]

There are all possible uses in the first post:

1. Craft items with a mod than can't be imbue-able
For example, 5 hci on an armor.

2. Craft items with an overcapped mod
For example, 150 luck on an armor.

3. Craft items with overcapped total weight

 

[CorwinXX]

And there are a link to a table that shows what runic use in each case.

 

[DJAd]

@popps what are you trying to make?

 

[popps]

@popps what are you trying to make?

As of now, not yet trying to make anything particular, just working on stocking up runics but I have hard time deciding what runics I really need.....
I mean, do I really need any bronze, golden, agapite, verite, valorite smithy hammers or I am fine just with a good number of copper runics to use for reforging ?
Same with tailoring, do I just want to stock up spined runic kits or do I also need any horned or barbed ?

I am not sure what runic to use for what situations at their best.....

 

[General Lee]

I hear you popps, I have a heap of barbed kits (29 i think) I got from an idoc and I have no idea what to craft with them. I don't want to just waste them, I have read on here that they are good for pvp gear but I don't know where to start. I have been using copper hammers a lot lately for 100% hll I think copper hammers are the best hammer going.

 

[Tuan]

@popps if you really are so concerned about this theoretical new or returning player who is destined to be confused, then isn't the humanitarian thing to do to go ahead and compile this guild yourself?

That being said, if your guide contains the statement that "copper hammers are the best hammer going" as is posited by General Lee, your guide will be objectively, and demonstrably incorrect. What if you want a piece or armor with +10 dex and +3 of any regen? That is 100% impossible with a copper hammer. It is, however, possible with a higher end hammer.

So lets assume we have the same end goal in mind for our suits. If you reforge your whole suit with copper hammers, but I reforge my whole suit with Gold and better hammers, my suit WILL be better than yours. The difference is, your suit will have cost you a few million in total value, my suit will have cost me a few hundred million.

Part of the thing is you keep talking about "expensive mistakes" etc. This is all relative. To someone out there who has 4 or 5 BILLION gold, burning through 100 valorite hammers @ a cost of 4M gold each to make 1 "perfect" piece of armor is not expensive - thats a good value.

For some specific tasks, like getting 150 luck, or 100% of some hit leech, or 100% of an elemental damage type it makes sense to have a guide. And those guides already exist.

If you're looking for someone to tell you how to best use your barbed kits, I don't think that is possible, unless you're looking for an answer like "Either get really lucky with the RNG, or be willing to use a lot of them, or be willing to dead with some mod you don't care about, like lower requirements or +durability."

 

[popps]

@popps if you really are so concerned about this theoretical new or returning player who is destined to be confused, then isn't the humanitarian thing to do to go ahead and compile this guild yourself?

I wished I was knowledged enough to be able to make it. Unfortunately, I am not, and I would be incapacitated to provide accurate and complete informations that could really be of help to a new or returning player or even to a current player not knowledged, just like me, about the current status of crafting with runics in the game...

That is, if I were to do such a Guide, I'd probably do more harm than be of any real help....

That being said, if your guide contains the statement that "copper hammers are the best hammer going" as is posited by General Lee, your guide will be objectively, and demonstrably incorrect. What if you want a piece or armor with +10 dex and +3 of any regen? That is 100% impossible with a copper hammer. It is, however, possible with a higher end hammer.

Well, then a Guide that wanted to be of comprehensive help should say that "in general" copper runics are the most usefull (for weapons/metallic armour) because they can be used with reforging, using such and such combination of options, to produce weapons with such and such modifiers with a high intensity highly seeked for a dexer (for example...), BUT, "in case" the player may seek OTHER modifiers with a certain intensity, THEN the following other runics (Golden ? Agapite ? Verite ? Valorite ?) might be used instead BUT KEEPING IN MIND that using them may add unwanted and not usefull modifiers like such and such.....

I think that if a Guide is intended to be written as a HELP GUIDE, that is to help fellow players, then its informations should be simply laid out, clear to be read and not cryptic. Either a Guide helps with the informations contained in it, or it does not. And when the explaination of game dynamics is not simply laid out, clear to be read, but is instead cryptic and with continuous referrals to other links and informations contained elsewhere, it may in the end not be of such help that one might have wished.....

So lets assume we have the same end goal in mind for our suits. If you reforge your whole suit with copper hammers, but I reforge my whole suit with Gold and better hammers, my suit WILL be better than yours. The difference is, your suit will have cost you a few million in total value, my suit will have cost me a few hundred million.

Using a Golden hammer rather than a Copper one, does not only bring better intensities for wanted modifiers, but also unwanted modifiers and the higher the hammer used for reforging the higher the chances to get even a single unwanted modifier which screws up the whole work.

Furthermore, we are not talking of just a Guide about reforging, but a Guide helping out to use all existing runic tools out there. Using a runic to reforge is just 1 possible use of runics, there are other possible use of runics that do not involve reforging.....
So, a runic might not be able to reforge, but perhaps it could be usefull for other uses ?
A Guide about runic tools and their best usability should mention this.....

Since we are talking of a Guide to help not knowledged players, such a Guide should mention warnings that by using either a Bronze or a Golden or an Agapite or a Verite or a Valorite hammer could bring home better intensities on the wanted modifiers but also a lot higher chances to get NOT wanted modifiers which can ruin the whole work and thus, result in wasted charges..... A valorite hammer comes up with only 15 charges and since on average many many attempts are needed, using a valorite hammer for reforging may mean burning through tens of them before getting just that 1 single item with the right combination of modifiers that are wanted.... This could be ok with a players having billions of gold to spend, but not necessarily for a player that is new to the game or just returning. Perhaps they were able to just get 1 single Valorite hammer and 15 charges is all they can count on, giving them good advice on how to BEST spend those limited 15 charges and not waste them away I think should be a key focus of such a HELPING Guide..........

If you're looking for someone to tell you how to best use your barbed kits, I don't think that is possible, unless you're looking for an answer like "Either get really lucky with the RNG, or be willing to use a lot of them, or be willing to dead with some mod you don't care about, like lower requirements or +durability."

But a helping Guide could at least mention on "average" how many barbed kits might be used to be burned up to just make that 1 single piece as wanted.... This could at least give a rough estimate to a player whether to even consider getting into using them or stay out of it althougether.... The good of having fellow players having already gone through it, is to be able to make treasure of their experience and then judge, from others' findings, whether they can or not afford walking the same path.....
That's something, I think, that a Guide could try to be helping with....

 

[Tuan]

There is no "best" way. It's all just advice. Thats the problem.

Just like with your suggestion that we talk about "averages". There are literally THOUSANDS of words witten detailing how to make a 100% HLL weapon here, from weeks/months/years ago, including what an 'average' success rate is. and yet, here's a post from two weeks ago from someone who was pretty sure they were doing something wrong: http://stratics.com/community/threads/reforging-for-hll-100-what-am-i-doing-wrong.313809/

I think I see where you're going. So here's what I recommend you do. When you get an LBOD hammer, post up a spreadsheet with your current suit. Then ask a directed question something like:

I have an agapite hammer, and here is my current suit. I know I need to keep my HML at 50% for chaining AIs, so what is the best use for me, right now, to use for this hammer.

Then you'll get a few responses from the normal people who respond to such things. Keep in mind though, that when we say something like "choose X and Y and hope for mod A and mod B" there's a good chance that you will use that hammer, and end up with nothing useful. Simply because you did not get the result you wanted, doesn't mean the advice was bad.

If you simply ask, as you have in other threads, "what should I do with a newly acquired valorite hammer" there's no way to give you a better response other than "use it" or "sell it".

 

[popps]

If you simply ask, as you have in other threads, "what should I do with a newly acquired valorite hammer" there's no way to give you a better response other than "use it" or "sell it".

Is a simple "use them or sell them" the best advice that the Forum can give, for example to players like General Lee http://stratics.com/community/threa...ols-to-use-for-what-task.314503/#post-2378860 who is pondering how to best use the 29ish barbed kits found at an IDOC ??

There is not much else that could be possibly suggested to any player wondering like him how to best use their runic tools ?

 

[Tuan]

@popps Please, go ahead and read what people write. If you're going to ask a 100% general question, then yes, that IS the best advice that can be given. Not just by this forum, but overall.

Did you read General Lee's post? I did. He doesn't say if he even WANTS to PVP.

He says " I have read on here that they are good for pvp gear but I don't know where to start." Well, step 1, do you want to PvP, and so much so that you're willing to make a suit specifically for PVP and not PVM?

Without knowing the answer to that question, going beyond that is somewhat of a moot point. If you don't want to PVP, then don't use the kits to make PvP armor...

If I asked you "how should I use my runic tools?" What type of answer can you give? Don't you need to first know a few things like... What tools? What types of characters I have? If I have a valorite runic chisel, but I don't have any gargoyles, well it doesn't make a lot of sense to make gargoyle armor does it? If I have a runic saw, but I don't have any elf characters, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go ahead and make woodland armor, does it? If I have a runic smithy hammer, but I only play mage characters, then it doesn't make sense to go reforging HCI onto a piece of armor, does it?

The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.

 

[popps]

If I asked you "how should I use my runic tools?" What type of answer can you give? Don't you need to first know a few things like... What tools? What types of characters I have? If I have a valorite runic chisel, but I don't have any gargoyles, well it doesn't make a lot of sense to make gargoyle armor does it? If I have a runic saw, but I don't have any elf characters, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go ahead and make woodland armor, does it? If I have a runic smithy hammer, but I only play mage characters, then it doesn't make sense to go reforging HCI onto a piece of armor, does it?

Well, as I see it, then, a Guide about the "best" usage of runic tools, that is a Guide addressed to everyone playing the game, should be a Guide giving out advice regardless of specific, individualistic needs or uses....

What I am trying to say, is that if a player asks a specific question, then an answer tailored to that specific question can be made, as you say.

BUT, when writing up a Guide, that would be addressed to any and all players out there, this Guide should give out informations to players using elves, or using gargoyles, or using dexers and so forth.
So, as I see it, to follow up with your example, the general helping Guide for best Runic tools usage should be saying that Runic mallet and chisels are to be best used with stone armor for gargoyles only (and then differentiate going more into details on what mallet and chisel runic is best used for what results...), that Runic Saws should only be used with Elves to craft Woodland Armour (and then differentiate going more into details on what runic saw is best used for what results...), that Runic hammers should be used for dexer characters because they can best make use of the reduced stamina debuff when fighting with metallic armour as compared to Mages who do not need much stamina but need a lot of mana and thus medable armour (and then differentiate going more into details on what runic hammer is best used for what results...).

So, while answering to a specific player might require a specific question, the writing up of a Guide should instead face any and all possible situation (or as many as possible) since whomever might be reading might be in a different situation from someone else and thus, the Guide should be capable of aiding as many as possible playrs reading it regardless whether they may be playing humans, elves, gargoyles, mages, dexers, throwers, archers and so forth.

That's at least as I see it.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Who would set themselves up as an authority to write such a guide? Who claims to have sufficient depth of knowledge that they know better than anyone else? Not I, that's for certain.

UO is all about choices. There is no definitive 'right' way to use runics. You can ask fellow players for their recommendations and suggestions, but then it's up to you to weigh up the answers and decide which you agree with and which you don't.

 

[popps]

Who would set themselves up as an authority to write such a guide? Who claims to have sufficient depth of knowledge that they know better than anyone else? Not I, that's for certain.

UO is all about choices. There is no definitive 'right' way to use runics. You can ask fellow players for their recommendations and suggestions, but then it's up to you to weigh up the answers and decide which you agree with and which you don't.

You are correct but still, while it is not possible to offer 100% correct advice since being UO a sand box game things can also be done in an unusual, uncommon way, it still is possible to offer advice in general terms based on a good number of players' experiences...

For example, while it still is possible to reforge using higher end hammers, players have found out through their playing, that the best runic tool fit for the task is the copper runic hammer.
Therefore, writing up in a Guide that the best runic hammer for the reforging job (with metallic armor or weapons that is...) to be used is the copper runic hammer rather than the higher runic hammers (and of course explaining the reasons to this thinking...), could still be a good averaged estimate which could be quite helpfull to fellow players....
Then, players might still be using valorite hammers to reforge but that would be at their risk and having being adviced that it might turn out way too expensive to balance the little additional advantages...

That's at least how I see it.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Do I take it that you would undertake to write the guide? I have already said that my knowledge of runic crafting and reforging is insufficient for the task. I therefore need a volunteer to undertake it. I will happily copy the information to http://uo2.stratics.com with all due credit to the author.

 

[popps]

Do I take it that you would undertake to write the guide? I have already said that my knowledge of runic crafting and reforging is insufficient for the task. I therefore need a volunteer to undertake it. I will happily copy the information to http://uo2.stratics.com with all due credit to the author.

As I said in my previous post, I'd love to if I had the knowledge and knew the ins and outs, but unfortunately, I am afraid that I am not competent to write it. I barely have apprehended that copper runics are (for metallic armor and weapons) the suggested runic to use for reforging and am not even sure about it as I keep hearing from other players that they use runics other than copper....
I know nothing about all of the rest of runics.....

 

[Petra Fyde]

Then I'm afraid, desireable as such a guide might be, we will have to remain without one until someone comes forward to write it.

 

[Shef]

the crafting system itself is too comprehensive. I have tried. best advice I can offer is these steps for crafting. Craft, reforge, powder, imbue, enhance, insure and refinements if you so wish.

 

[CorwinXX]

Different suits require different runic tools. There is no the best suit so there is no the best runic tool and there is no the best use for a runic tool.

For example, one that listed :
Blacksmith Dull Copper Runic Hammer --> Best advisable use is for............, reasons for this because........

It's a stupid question but I can start an answer:
Blacksmith Dull Copper Runic Hammer Best advisable use is for:
3 HPI on a weapon
5 HPI on an armor
5 HPI on a shield
4 SI on a weapon
4 SI on a shield
4 MI on a weapon
4 MI on a shield
4 LMC on a weapon
4 LMC on a shield
4 STR on a weapon
4 STR on an armor
4 STR on a shield
....

Should I post all 10k rows here? Will it help you? Good. Then you can open this chart http://stratics.com/community/threads/reforging-how-to.264020/page-4#post-2318355 and continue the list yourself.

Well may be you is looking for some other kind of answer? Ok, I could try:
Blacksmith Dull Copper Runic Hammer Best advisable use is for 5 HCI.
Even if you mage and don't need HCI at all you'd better to reforge 5 HCI on each armor peace.
Have you wanted 150 luck? Sorry you can't because it's better to reforge 5 HCI and you can't reforge an item twice.

 

[CorwinXX]

the crafting system itself is too comprehensive. I have tried. best advice I can offer is these steps for crafting. Craft, reforge, powder, imbue, enhance, insure and refinements if you so wish.

The crafting system is like swimming. You can read 1k pages about it or you can try it yourself. And in the second way helps you better.

 

[Riyana]

I have been trying to find a comprehensive Guide about Runic tools but the ones I found seem to be a bit outdated and not take into account the current status of Ultima Online with the most updated changes.

For example, I seem to understand that runic copper and runic spined are to be used for reforging and that valorite hammers are to be used for reforging but only for necklaces of gargoyles, not anything else.

Since this is all confusing, sure, there is posts out there giving out bits and pieces of info but I imagine how hard it may be for a new player, or even a returning player to the game, or a player who just is not much knowledged about crafting to gather a lot of info split a bit here and a bit there, I was wondering whether there may be a current comprehensive list of all of the various runic tools, for blacksmithying, tailoring, masonry, tinkering (Gargoyle necklaces and amulets are tinker items, right ? But can be reforged with a smithy runic hammer, right?), bowyering etc.

Basically, a Guide starting from the lower runics all the way up to the highest runics telling what each runic is suggested to be used and for what.

For example, one could well reforge a weapon using a valorite smithy hammer rather than a copper hammer but this is generally not adviced because of the end results.
Not well knowledged players about crafting might erroneously think that since a valorite hammer is the best one, they would be better off using that instead of a copper one to reforge an item and make such a mistake.

Having such a comprehensive Guide available, might avoid to players not knowledged about the current status of crafting in the game expensive mistakes.

Does anyone know whether any such a Guide might be available ?

Thanks.

A TRULY comprehensive guide like what you are describing would probably end up being more confusing and complex than the system already is. Semmerset's charts (in the Reforging How To) thread are very helpful and will probably get you started on the gist of some of your questions. What you are asking for specifically--which hammer is good for what--is very dependent on what you are hoping to make, for what purpose, and what resources you have and/or are willing to spend. It's too broad of a question because of all the variables.

However, I think that a well-organized beginner's guide, with links to or incorporating some of the scattered but vital information, would be great. (If there IS such a guide I certainly never found it!) It sounds like there are a lot of veteran crafters in this thread. I've only recently begun higher level crafting, and I found taking the first steps into this crafting system very daunting. There does not seem to be much "intro level" information--I was lucky enough to have lots of help from a more knowledgeable friend. The Reforging How To thread that keeps getting linked is definitely full of great information, but for someone just learning it is hard to understand what you are looking at or even know enough to ask a good question.

 

[popps]

However, I think that a well-organized beginner's guide, with links to or incorporating some of the scattered but vital information, would be great. (If there IS such a guide I certainly never found it!) It sounds like there are a lot of veteran crafters in this thread.

There certainly is a whole lot of kind fellow players willing to help and answering all sorts of questions and that is great.

Personally, I find myself unsure even what to do when I claim BODs. When I get a BOD which I could possibly upgrade to better ones through bribing, I am not sure whether to do it or not.

I mean, for example, if I get a large bod good for a spined kit, will I leave it as it is or is it better to have it upgraded for a horned or for a barbed ?

Usually higher is better, but is it so ? If a barbed is better than a horned and a horned is better than a spined then why is there a lot of players using spined runic kits instead of horned or barbed ??

Same thing with smithy hammers.... Valorite is the best and yet, most hammers used up are copper....

So, if Valorite is the best why don't players just go for Valorite and forget about the lower runics ?

Not to mention the fact, that it is not possible to reforge magic items and this, crosses out for many the usage of runics to flat out craft items because doing this would make it impossible to reforge afterwards.

So, apparently, the only current possible use for runics is for reforging because flat out crafting using runics makes it no longer possible to regorge.....

Did I say apparently ?
Yes, I said apparently because "perhaps", just perhaps, there may be items where reforging may not be necessary or wanted and thus, crafting using the top runic could be advisable ?
But what would be such cases ?

For what items would reforging not be necessary or advisable ?

Moreover, is that true for all runics and all materials ?

Not all runics work the same on the respective materials because one thing is leather, another is metal, another is wood and yet another is stone not to mention the fact that there is jewels and then stone amulets which work in a different way.....

Confusing ? Perhaps to many not, but to me and some others yes..... that is why I was hoping for a comprehensive guideline, a "walkthrough" if possible......

 

[Riyana]

There certainly is a whole lot of kind fellow players willing to help and answering all sorts of questions and that is great.

Personally, I find myself unsure even what to do when I claim BODs. When I get a BOD which I could possibly upgrade to better ones through bribing, I am not sure whether to do it or not.

I mean, for example, if I get a large bod good for a spined kit, will I leave it as it is or is it better to have it upgraded for a horned or for a barbed ?

Usually higher is better, but is it so ? If a barbed is better than a horned and a horned is better than a spined then why is there a lot of players using spined runic kits instead of horned or barbed ??

Same thing with smithy hammers.... Valorite is the best and yet, most hammers used up are copper....

So, if Valorite is the best why don't players just go for Valorite and forget about the lower runics ?

Not to mention the fact, that it is not possible to reforge magic items and this, crosses out for many the usage of runics to flat out craft items because doing this would make it impossible to reforge afterwards.

So, apparently, the only current possible use for runics is for reforging because flat out crafting using runics makes it no longer possible to regorge.....

Did I say apparently ?
Yes, I said apparently because "perhaps", just perhaps, there may be items where reforging may not be necessary or wanted and thus, crafting using the top runic could be advisable ?
But what would be such cases ?

For what items would reforging not be necessary or advisable ?

Moreover, is that true for all runics and all materials ?

Not all runics work the same on the respective materials because one thing is leather, another is metal, another is wood and yet another is stone not to mention the fact that there is jewels and then stone amulets which work in a different way.....

Confusing ? Perhaps to many not, but to me and some others yes..... that is why I was hoping for a comprehensive guideline, a "walkthrough" if possible......

OK, I think I understand the general question a bit better now. I was confused about this too at first. Like I said, I'm fairly new to all this, so hopefully if I get anything wrong someone more knowledgeable will correct me.

The advantages of using lower end runics are cost and control. Lower end runics come with more charges and are easier to get, thus end up costing you a lot less time and/or gold to obtain. When you reforge with a lower end runic, you get fewer properties on an item--however, you can consult the appropriate chart to determine which runic will give you the best intensity of a desired particular property (or two or three... it all depends on what you are going for) at the lowest runic level (thus lowest cost and fewest extraneous properties). You should probably shoot for ones that can't be imbued or that reforging gives you a better intensity on than you can get with imbuing. (From there, you use your powder of fortifying--you must do this here because once it is imbued you can't do it and are left with a much shorter-lived item). Then you can imbue. Using the lower runic has left you room to imbue, thus giving you more control over your final product.

The advantages of using higher end runics are greater property intensities and item longevity. Higher runics give you more and sometimes higher property intensities than you can get using the lower runic/imbuing method. However, when you decide what properties you want you can use the reforging menu to sort of guide it in the right direction, but getting exact properties is a roll of the dice. You can burn through a LOT of runics to get a particular item you need depending on how exact your specifications are. Since higher runics are harder to get and have fewer charges, this can end up being a very expensive endeavor. You can't imbue over these because their total intensities are above the imbuing cap--but since they aren't imbued, they can be re-powdered indefinitely so you pretty much have an immortal item.

There are also some properties that can be attained with some runics but not others, so you have to take that into account too when selecting your runic. For example: if you want max luck on your studded piece, you're going to have to use a spined runic as it is not a selectable option on horned or barbed kits.

So it comes down to risk versus reward really. Lower runics are less risky because they are cheaper and you have more control over the final product with imbuing, but since you can't powder after imbuing eventually your piece will break. Higher runics are riskier because you have less control and they are so much more expensive, but you can end up with better stuff that will hypothetically last forever. It all depends on what you are going for and what kind of resources you can and are willing to spend making the item(s) you desire.

Personally I prefer to use lower runics and imbuing 1) because I am still learning and 2) because no suit is worth a bajillion gold to me. To some people the right suit would be worth that.

It is worth noting that if you are making a whole suit you will need a spreadsheet to calculate all the properties and maximize each piece's potential. There are some in the Reforging How To thread. I half copied one I saw there and tweaked it a bit for my own use.

I don't know about crafting straight with runics, but you would have pretty much zero control since it would be completely random. With reforging there is still an element of randomness, but you narrow it down by selecting the name options.

It's always a good idea to play around on Test Center to get an idea of what you can do. Look at other people's gear for ideas. Think about what character you want to make an item or items for and what properties best benefit that character's template. Come up with an item you would like to make and try to make it on TC with a higher runic, then with a lower runic and imbuing. See what you think would work best for you on your home shard.

Again, I'm still learning myself, but this seems to be how it goes from what I've done so far. If anyone has any clarifications or corrections I will happily edit.

 

[Storm]

Great explanation Riyana

 

[popps]

Great explanation Riyana

Indeed, thank you, that was quite explainatory...... it helps a bit more to guide through the thinking process to maintain while navigating through the limitations of the crafting process.

If only there was also an explainatory Guide for items properties.....

Like a Guide which stats which property is most advisable for what skill and why is that...

I mean, with some properties it is obvious, like spell damage increase.... that is for a spellcaster character, not a dexer BUT, some players "might" get confused thinking of special moves as "spells" and thus think tht perhaps, just perhaps, the spell damage increase "might" be of help also to a dexer and wrongly choose it for their dexer character....
After all, do not Dexers also make good use of Faster Casting and Faster Cast Recovery because it helps when chaining up special moves ? So special moves do are "spells" and thus having the Spell Damage Increase might help a dexer ?

All this, I fear, adds to confusion for not well knowledged players and I think that easy to read Guides could possibly provide good guidance to help them better navigate through all of the dilemmas and decision making when planning out the design of a suit.

But for a lot of properties which can be used by various skills though, they may not be equally usefull for all of the skills using them (i.e. some skills may make better use of that property rather than other skills....) and thus, when making a template rather than another, it would be more advisable to use a given property rather than another.....

The Guides I know of, just make a list of the Items Properties with a brief explaination of what they do, like http://uo2.stratics.com/items/magic-item-properties or http://www.uoguide.com/Item_Properties but they do not give much advice on whether that given property might be more usefull to a dexer, or a tamer, or a spellcaster and so forth.

So, a lot of players not much knowledged about the ins and outs might be confused as to what item property to pick for which template and up to what intensities (that is, which properties are most usefull for that given template to be maxed out and what properties that are also important but not "as much" can be kept at a lower intensity...). Also, even though UOGuide has a table that indicates what property can be attached to what item, through reforging it is possible, by random chance, to "force" a property which would not naturally appear on a piece to actually be made on it. This, makes the whole thing even more confusing because, even though the Table tells players, for example, that Swing Speed Increase can only appear on Weapons, then we have a number of items be them artifacts or jewellery, that have it.....

When making up a whole suit, these rules and all of their exceptions just add to the confusion to coming up with deciding what to craft................

Most of the Guides I have found, address the single aspects of crafting, they look at re-forging, or they look at imbuing, or they list items properties and so forth, but none that I could find starts looking at the whole picture from start, the Design Planning of an entire suit.

A player who wants to make an entire suit, needs to start from some steady points like deciding "around what" the whole suit needs to be then made out.

Clearly, the step one is deciding what template will be using the suit so as to determine what modifiers and what intensities need to be in that suit.

And here would come handy a Guide that lists for a template what would be the "must" item properties to have and whether it is vital that they are Capped for that suit (some should even exceed the CAP as debuffs from enemies hav the power to lower them, a good Guide should advice on which properties is OK to have at CAP, which to exceed CAP and for what amount, and which properties are less vital for that given template and, can therefore be kept at a lower CAP level....).

Then, once it has been determined what item properties that suit should have (considered the Template that will be using it...) and with what intensity each property should be at, the step 2 would be deciding "how to split those properties"among the various pieces of the suit.
Here, artifacts (or reforged items) may come to good use as they may allow to host a property which naturally would not be be on that item like Swing Speed Increase on pieces other than Weapons....

Then, after it has been decided what piece needs to have what item properties and up to what intensities, comes the step 3 which is the actual crafting of the missing pieces.....
A good Guide, I think, should at this point indicate how to best craft these pieces in order to minimize costs. That is, advice on what would be the lowest runic possible to get the job done as in regards reforging, and as for imbuing advice, on the order with which to imbue the various needed item properties on a given item (the ones requiring most expensive loseable materials like relic frags as first imbue attempts the reduce their losses...).

I think that a good Guide should always have highlighted in red and very noticeable, that using powder of fortification must ALWAYS come before imbuing. It is very very unfortunate to go through the cost of imbuing a piece only to find out that one has not powdered it before, and thus this expensive piece has very, very reduced life......

When I talk about a comprehensive Guide, that's what I think of, a Guide what is a comprehensive walkthrough in aiding a player to make a whole suit, regardless of the template that might be using it or, better even, a Guide that can provide help for all possible templates out there or, at least, for the most commonly used like the Tamer, the Dexer, the Spellcaster, the Bard....

Of course, Ultima Online is a sand box game so skills can be mixed up in all possible ways and with their mixing up also the suits' items properties end up being mixed up making it impossible to predict a "best set up".....

But a Guide that at least gets through the 4 or 5 most used templates in the game walking a player through the crafting of them, step by step, could be of great use to many UO players, I imagine......

Like, a step by step Guide to make the best suit for a Tamer, a Dexer (with 2 options, the Sampire and the Samurai Paladin), a Spellcaster and a Bard perhaps could be found very usefull by several UO players out there.........

 

[CorwinXX]

When you say "the best" you need to suggest a function to evaluate. The best template in UO is something like the best pizza.
As to templates you listed they really are just character classes. I think it is difficult to find two similar Sampires in the game (with the same skills and the same stats).

 

[Barry Gibb]

Like a Guide which stats which property is most advisable for what skill and why is that........

Guess what I found... .... GUIDES ...
Bards - http://stratics.com/community/threads/post-your-templates-and-tactics-here.168518/
Treasure Hunters - http://stratics.com/community/threa...-read-before-posting-updated-dec-2012.213147/
Tamers - http://stratics.com/community/threads/guide-to-beginner-tamer.216638/
Mages - http://stratics.com/community/threads/necromancy-templates.25052/
Warriors - http://stratics.com/community/threads/corwinxxs-warriors-guide-for-new-and-returning-players.303962/

Guides like these are meant to help you start out a character type. Combine these guides with the magic property data throughout UO Stratics, and that is the comprehensive information you seek. If you seek further knowledge or the ins-and-outs which veterans have learned (through playing), that is why these forums are set up by topic. Do not be afraid to ask specific questions.

@popps If you find that any of these guides are lacking in a "Magical Property Usefulness Assessment" (which you seem to be asking for), don't be afraid to START one. You have the property descriptions and YOU have been around long enough. You may not have all the answers, but if you come to the table with it started, you will receive more direct responses and evaluations by those knowledgeable with a template.

Special Moves are not "cast", so they are not subject to FCR/FC. Chivalry spells are though, which is a common skill for a warrior: http://uo.stratics.com/content/arms-armor/specialmoves.php.

 

[CorwinXX]

When I craft a suit to a customer it usually takes me 1 hour of asking questions to get know what stats (mods) suit better for him. And after this it usually takes me 1 hour to get what exactly stats (mods) I can do depending on time I'm going to spend for crafting this suit. Try to imagine amount of text needed to write down all possible variants. Writing such guide would take hundreds of hours due to its big volume... and due to its big volume this guide would be completely useless to a new player.

 

[Barry Gibb]

...Try to imagine amount of text needed to write down all possible variants.

Now multiply that by all the common templates.

... and due to its big volume this guide would be completely useless to a new player.

Not to mention it wound be a HUGE deterrent.

 

[Riyana]

Indeed, thank you, that was quite explainatory...... it helps a bit more to guide through the thinking process to maintain while navigating through the limitations of the crafting process.

If only there was also an explainatory Guide for items properties.....

Like a Guide which stats which property is most advisable for what skill and why is that...

I mean, with some properties it is obvious, like spell damage increase.... that is for a spellcaster character, not a dexer BUT, some players "might" get confused thinking of special moves as "spells" and thus think tht perhaps, just perhaps, the spell damage increase "might" be of help also to a dexer and wrongly choose it for their dexer character....
After all, do not Dexers also make good use of Faster Casting and Faster Cast Recovery because it helps when chaining up special moves ? So special moves do are "spells" and thus having the Spell Damage Increase might help a dexer ?

All this, I fear, adds to confusion for not well knowledged players and I think that easy to read Guides could possibly provide good guidance to help them better navigate through all of the dilemmas and decision making when planning out the design of a suit.

But for a lot of properties which can be used by various skills though, they may not be equally usefull for all of the skills using them (i.e. some skills may make better use of that property rather than other skills....) and thus, when making a template rather than another, it would be more advisable to use a given property rather than another.....

The Guides I know of, just make a list of the Items Properties with a brief explaination of what they do, like http://uo2.stratics.com/items/magic-item-properties or http://www.uoguide.com/Item_Properties but they do not give much advice on whether that given property might be more usefull to a dexer, or a tamer, or a spellcaster and so forth.

So, a lot of players not much knowledged about the ins and outs might be confused as to what item property to pick for which template and up to what intensities (that is, which properties are most usefull for that given template to be maxed out and what properties that are also important but not "as much" can be kept at a lower intensity...). Also, even though UOGuide has a table that indicates what property can be attached to what item, through reforging it is possible, by random chance, to "force" a property which would not naturally appear on a piece to actually be made on it. This, makes the whole thing even more confusing because, even though the Table tells players, for example, that Swing Speed Increase can only appear on Weapons, then we have a number of items be them artifacts or jewellery, that have it.....

When making up a whole suit, these rules and all of their exceptions just add to the confusion to coming up with deciding what to craft................

Most of the Guides I have found, address the single aspects of crafting, they look at re-forging, or they look at imbuing, or they list items properties and so forth, but none that I could find starts looking at the whole picture from start, the Design Planning of an entire suit.

A player who wants to make an entire suit, needs to start from some steady points like deciding "around what" the whole suit needs to be then made out.

Clearly, the step one is deciding what template will be using the suit so as to determine what modifiers and what intensities need to be in that suit.

And here would come handy a Guide that lists for a template what would be the "must" item properties to have and whether it is vital that they are Capped for that suit (some should even exceed the CAP as debuffs from enemies hav the power to lower them, a good Guide should advice on which properties is OK to have at CAP, which to exceed CAP and for what amount, and which properties are less vital for that given template and, can therefore be kept at a lower CAP level....).

Then, once it has been determined what item properties that suit should have (considered the Template that will be using it...) and with what intensity each property should be at, the step 2 would be deciding "how to split those properties"among the various pieces of the suit.
Here, artifacts (or reforged items) may come to good use as they may allow to host a property which naturally would not be be on that item like Swing Speed Increase on pieces other than Weapons....

Then, after it has been decided what piece needs to have what item properties and up to what intensities, comes the step 3 which is the actual crafting of the missing pieces.....
A good Guide, I think, should at this point indicate how to best craft these pieces in order to minimize costs. That is, advice on what would be the lowest runic possible to get the job done as in regards reforging, and as for imbuing advice, on the order with which to imbue the various needed item properties on a given item (the ones requiring most expensive loseable materials like relic frags as first imbue attempts the reduce their losses...).

I think that a good Guide should always have highlighted in red and very noticeable, that using powder of fortification must ALWAYS come before imbuing. It is very very unfortunate to go through the cost of imbuing a piece only to find out that one has not powdered it before, and thus this expensive piece has very, very reduced life......

When I talk about a comprehensive Guide, that's what I think of, a Guide what is a comprehensive walkthrough in aiding a player to make a whole suit, regardless of the template that might be using it or, better even, a Guide that can provide help for all possible templates out there or, at least, for the most commonly used like the Tamer, the Dexer, the Spellcaster, the Bard....

Of course, Ultima Online is a sand box game so skills can be mixed up in all possible ways and with their mixing up also the suits' items properties end up being mixed up making it impossible to predict a "best set up".....

But a Guide that at least gets through the 4 or 5 most used templates in the game walking a player through the crafting of them, step by step, could be of great use to many UO players, I imagine......

Like, a step by step Guide to make the best suit for a Tamer, a Dexer (with 2 options, the Sampire and the Samurai Paladin), a Spellcaster and a Bard perhaps could be found very usefull by several UO players out there.........

Well... I think what you are envisioning in a guide is more comprehensive than it needs to be, and more comprehensive than one person can or will be willing to do. I know I couldn't do it--I don't even have all of the templates you described, much less know how best to optimize gear for them.

Since pretty much every step in crafting a suit both involves some element of randomness and requires decision making, there will be no one way to make a "best suit" for any template. There is also likely to be some disagreement on best properties for some templates--and there are variations to every template further complicating it! For new crafters especially it also depends on what you have to work with--a new crafter isn't likely to have all the supplies at hand, and may not be able to get them easily. And is the suit going to be for a human, elf or gargoyle? PvM or PvP? The best anyone could probably hope to do is a step by step example with suggestions on how to tweak it to your individual needs.

For example, take a sampire. (And I use sampire because its the only suit I've worked with so far!) Some items seem to be pretty universally used (but again, there are always variations and dissenting opinions!), but you may or may not have access to them. Do you have or can you get a despicable quiver? With what resist? Do you have or can you get a crimson cincture? A conjurer's trinket? From poking around here when I was first trying to figure this all out, a lot of people start with mace and shield glasses... but I've also seen it stated that you can craft a better headpiece. So even establishing what premade items you want to incorporate involves personal decision: do you want to use mace and shield glasses, which seem to run at 8-10 million, or do you want to go all out and try to build a better one with barbed kits or valorite hammers, which might end up costing you many times that? All these decisions influence what you aim for in each crafted piece, and there will inevitably be variations. I doubt any two suits out there are identical!

I understand what you're getting at and your frustration--and how hard it is to narrow down to specific points and questions with such a vast and varied system when you're just learning. It's hard figuring out a reasonable place to start. I'm going to be rebuilding my sampire suit here soon because I went on a shopping spree on Atlantic and bought some new pieces I want to use. I'll see if I can make some notes along the way and post them here. What I build won't be the "best" but it should work pretty well for me--and in my opinion, that's the most important thing.

 

[General Lee]

That being said, if your guide contains the statement that "copper hammers are the best hammer going" as is posited by General Lee, your guide will be objectively, and demonstrably incorrect.

Yeah I'd have to agree with you here, that was obviously pure personal preference and just popped out

 

[Fargrist]

Three years later and still there is a mish mash of information about runics, obviously everyone thinks it is too much effort to make a guide. I did find guides for private servers, but I don't play them. What would be handy is if the official site allowed comments underneath official descriptions of items and systems such as runics. That way someone could find the official post of the patch and under it would be a discussion of the system. Deleting any posts that don't apply, obviously. I find the same issues for other topics, I have to sign up to various fan sites to try and find info, on new pets etc., and then find the info tends to be at least a year or two old, and therefore a bit suspect. My runic issue is that I have a valorite runic hammer with 14 charges and I was wondering about possible uses. Instead I find three year old chats about how people should put a guide together, and nobody does.