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[Discussion] Is the fear of not being able to speak your mind ruining the community?

Discussion in 'UO Rares Collector' started by Promathia, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    If you are insinuation that I need an attitude change, I have never had a point against me on this site. Hell on any site that I am aware. To take a page from Petra, "I think there may be a misunderstanding"
     
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  2. Lt.Snuggles

    Lt.Snuggles Seasoned Veteran
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    lol no, i'm talking about people in general, people get so defensive and they act out, same with people with egos who act out that forces the hands of the moderators and give them reasons to have a quick trigger finger on other discussions and such.
    Wasn't pointing any fingers at you at all buddy.
     
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  3. Aiden O'Connor

    Aiden O'Connor Journeyman

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    But he was rather quick to assume!:pie:
     
  4. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Thank you Aiden for once again proving your worth to the community, I for one appreciate it.
     
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  5. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    You all need to behave or I am going to tattle.

    Bro hugs right now!!!! DO IT
     
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  6. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *hugs*
     
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  7. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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    Interesting Topic which I have been watching for the last few days.

    Very pleased to see Petra chime in and I totally agree with her.

    It's not what one says its how they say it.

    This has been a very good community for many years built on trust, exploration, trading, and friendly competition for items.

    I have been very proud to be a small part of this community contributing as I can here and there. What I have seen over the years is a lot of you working together to put on community events, Share information, Etc.

    Love it and great work.

    Sometimes I see the support of this community for Stratics and its volunteer mediators. Let's face it there is probably more player base experience and history than any other place on stratics right here in this forum. There would be only a few moderators that could handle that group.

    But this wasn't about volunteer staff and mods. It was about if you feel you can state your mind.

    Sometimes its better not to state your mind.

    Sometimes it is best you do instead of sitting on the sidelines.

    Reading the threads daily I really don't see to much trolling and overall feel the forum is a pretty safe and sane place to interact.

    Yes we get some heated discussions about things like a standardized price list for rares or if what the market bares is better, Exploits, Scammers, Etc.

    At the end of the day you all head down to the same rares fest to hang out and trade. Tell stories, and dodge a random Harbinger.

    I am all for a hefty debate based on facts and I love seeing all the research you all do regarding rares. Seems we learn something new everyday.

    --------------

    Since this question is do you feel you can speak your mind, I will.

    I have been very pleased to see several "Stratics Supporter" ribbons on peoples posts.

    The history that you are helping to preserve in this forum section is priceless and a lot of it sits no where else. We are talking, Discussions, Pricing results from auctions, Buy and Sale threads to track where items have gone. It is all priceless.

    We all utilize this information regularly and our very thankful that it is in one nice little spot for us. Sure there are other little repositories, but this has been a mainstay for years.

    The cost of hosting stratics is only about $440 a month for the site but, I encourage each and every one of you to chip in a bit each month as you can. :) One less Starbucks a week won't kill you and if you swing by my house in Luna on Atlantic we can work out a replacement for you for free.

    I feel pretty strongly that the rares community should set an example and take the lead in this support. I feel so strongly about this that I will be adjusting the rule set for my future auctions.

    I am reviewing items now to start the next segment of the auction series. There will be an addition to the rule set that states In order to Bid in the auction you will need to have a valid "Stratics Supporter" Ribbon on your Profile.

    Figured I would get this little change out now so that no one is caught by surprise.

    I know there will be a few of you that do not like this change. It's ok.

    I am sure some of you will say, "well with less people the winning bids will go down" It's ok

    There will be a few of you that tell each other "Nabin is nuts" lol maybe it's just the wisdom of an Old Sage.

    But you all know that I am always very serious when it comes to my auctions, the items, and the bids.

    Look forward to seeing your bids in the coming weeks.

    *Tips a Glass of Good Old Moonglow Red towards you in Salute and settles back down to the Fire*
     
    BrianFreud and Petra Fyde like this.
  8. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Nutty like a squirrel...
     
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  9. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    To much moonglow red. ;)
     
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  10. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    LOL
     
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  11. Sadie-

    Sadie- Journeyman
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    Really guys there's no need to live in Fear of the Mods the only reason the last thread got locked was because you guys couldn't handle the trolls. I'm not a huge fan of Aiden he knows this an clearly quite a few of you are not either, but is expressing your dislike towards him worth getting a forum locked? At the end of the forum "Greed and Elitism in Rares Community?" all that was done was a troll war between 3 or 4 people. It was not being productive it was not staying within the ROC so why are we complaining now? The mods have In My Opinion always locked or deleted even edited fairly. If you could refrain from name calling, trolling, and not letting posts get out of hand you would be fine. Someone always gets their feelings hurt or upset and derails the thread an a Mod has to step in and no one likes it but its for the best. Longtooths I dont know what you reported or said or what was said to you but it was you, briainfeud2, manti, and Aiden all going at it not on topic and just derailing the thread.

    You want to talk about real problems an the state of the rares community you should really pay more attention to how people are greeted an welcomed into it. While I may not like Aiden that my issue but I agree with him on a certain stance some of the people here in the rares community do not do such a great job welcoming in new people. A lot of you (will not say names you know who you are whether you want to admit it to yourselves or not) will try to buy from trammies who do so much work at events an pay 125mil (maybe less maybe more) for an item you know very will that is worth easily 3x that amount (thinks of my 1 of 1 dagger). There are other times prominent names of this community attempt to do this an the "trammie" has the idea to post it on this forum for all of you to have a chance at it and knowing it would be worse for the seller these prominent names try to talk the seller into allowing anonymous bidding (again thinks of my first auction). These people did it just because they wanted to buy the item for 1/3 of what it ended up selling for (of course the buyer turned around an sold it for 500mil more than what they paid to one of these people) but that just one more example. Is this right was that a great first impression? Even worse my auction was trolled by more prominent members of this community as I found out later one of them is a trusted seller we all know who tried to contact me via icq saying my item was duped to try to get me to lose money on it (they never produced any proof of these claims) The moderators did a GREAT job of cleaning up the thread an keeping it on track. These are all just a few of my personal experiences when first attempting to join this community. I have met quite a few of you an consider a lot of you as great friends. That being said there's a lot to work on if you want to keep this community thriving because it does require good first impressions to be made because people we all know an love who have been around for a long time are leaving that means we need new faces an new people to help this community grow. The moderators have been fair and do keep a stern hand, but in all the cases I personally have seen they wait until someone has not been able to control themselves and the thread goes to poop before they step in.

    Either way if you read that wall of text +1 for you! if not its just my 2cents and I've already gave away/sold my collection
    :grouphug:
     
  12. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Stratics Forum Moderator
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    Regarding the "greed" aspect of the discussion, there will always be some people who will do anything to make money, in real life and in games, as most of the people I've bought rares from know, I personally don't have an issue with buying a slightly overpriced item if I really like it or if I just don't want to waste time looking for another one for a few mil cheaper, however I definetely will not buy from someone that overprices everything they touch. If a new collector has an item I want I usually tell them what it's normal value is, and then pay them about 20% more than it's worth to help them start their collection. I truly don't understand the people who rip off all the new collectors, then wonder why the community is dying. If new collectors think the rares community are all greedy and evil, the community dies, it's that simple.

    As we all know, there are many very nice people in this community, unfortunately the few that are not so nice end up hurting the reputations of everyone else. I have heard new players and casual players say hundreds, maybe thousands of times that "rares collectors are all scammers" and "only thieves are in the rares community". Is that really the reputation everyone here wants? The only way to change peoples opinions is to show them we do not support the players who will steal from, scam, and rip off anyone they can. Most of us know exactly who are the good people, and who are the greedy people. If we truly want to show the game that there are good people here, we must all be willing to help out fellow players sometimes, teach them about the game, help them make money, or help them find a nice guild.

    People are more valuable than pixels.
     
  13. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    A troll war? Really? To me it was people discussing a matter of opinion.



    I disagree, I thought it was productive and the beauty of a forum is if YOU don’t think it is productive then YOU don’t have to read the thread. I also saw no rules broken in the thread…



    I respect your opinion. My opinion and others in this post is threads are being locked prematurely if needed at all. And we are voicing our opinions in this here thread. We are trying to get management to consider lighting up a bit. The majority of us are far into our double digits and want to be able to speak as though we were.



    Actually my experiences were related to other threads being locked. Derailed?? Seriously?? The OP throws out a softball slow pitch topic that can be interpreted a thousand different ways and you feel what were were saying derailed the thread? I will respectfully disagree with you again.



    Tldr: Someone offered less than another person thought an item was worth. Someone tried to educate me on an item and I didn’t like what they had to say.


    You have the ability to say no, I see absolutely no problem here. Take responsibility to find out the prices of your items before you offer to sell them. And if someone offered lower that you want simply say no…..I mean how hard is that to do….?
     
  14. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    My cell number is 903.399.3468. My Skype is taylor.v.smith. I'm happy to talk to anyone.
     
  15. Lt.Snuggles

    Lt.Snuggles Seasoned Veteran
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    if i ever get drunk, you sir will be the first victim of my drunken singing binge!

    Edited by kelmo
     
    #65 Lt.Snuggles, Jul 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2014
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  16. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Poobah
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    Hey! This is not a dating forum.
    Don´t make me call whoever runs this show.

    :p
     
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  17. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Kelmo,

    It is not my intention to be rude, but I do not know you other than your 9 bizarre posts to this thread. I can not for the life of me think of one thing we would have to discuss privately. Take care.
     
  18. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *bows out*
     
  19. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Who's fault is it that the owner of the item does not know the value of the item they are selling.....the person making an offer? When is the last time you offered something up for sale and didnt know what it was worth?
     
  20. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    yer on yer own here. What part did ya not understand?
     
  21. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    When ya drive Petra, myself and anyone else that cares away... good luck with yer nice friendly forum.
     
  22. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    And yet you are still here....interrupting two users having a discussion...again, for no other reason than to take a poke at me. You will not antagonize me into a fight with you. I think you and your posts personify what is wrong with the forums.

    Sadie and I are now discussing on ICQ, away from abusive moderators.......as so many have before us...
     
  23. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *smiles* OK
     
  24. Angel Dust

    Angel Dust Slightly Crazed
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    I did not see it as anyone derailing the thread either Tooth. I asked the question in a way to leave it open for discussion and opinion.
     
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  25. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    http://stratics.com/community/threads/the-broken-event-system.318256/


    Case in point, there are 15 people posting back and forth discussing a heated topic. three pictures are posted and one says Arse...Lock it down....Seriously...let the other 13 people pay for what the Moderators perceives as so nafarious that it must be locked least ....least....well, I really have no idea what the dreaded outcome would be....

    1. We are not children please stop treating us like it.
    2. The rules are outdated and need to be revamped along with Moderator behavior
    3. Revenue is down..see one and two
     
  26. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    What rules would you like to see?
     
  27. Promathia

    Promathia Crazed Zealot
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    Can I ask a serious question?

    Why is all the moderating on this forum done by people OTHER than the Mod designated for it?
     
  28. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Fair question. I am a Senior Moderator for UO Stratics. That means every forum is a concern for me.
     
  29. 4runnersport

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    he likes to flex his mod muscles :)
     
  30. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I would actually rather be playing.
     
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  31. Promathia

    Promathia Crazed Zealot
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    So why not play and let your moderator for this forum actually ever have a chance to moderate.
     
  32. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Don't lock the tread Kelmo I want to answer your question but am having dinner atm.
     
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  33. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    No worries Longtooths. I am not going any where.
     
  34. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I would really like to visit with this forum's mod.
     
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  35. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Someone must have complained or kelmo wouldn't be here. I will say that much.
    When our drama pulls kelmo away of both UHall and the Siege forum... then something isn't right.
    I demand everyone love each other this instant!
    *stomps foot*
     
  36. Smoot

    Smoot Stratics Legend
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    Sometimes the greatest form of love is a good punch in the face.
     
  37. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Smoot go sit in the time-out chair
     
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  38. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    In my opinion, this is a dynamic forum. It deserves attention.
     
  39. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Kelmo,

    I stand corrected. I have thoroughly reviewed the rules and I don't think I would change a thing. If I was running things I would like all the rules to fall back on in case i needed them. Hell most of them are subjective enough to get away with murder.

    I only use the UO forums so please know my advice is limited to what I see here. What i would do is have a meeting with all my moderators. I would tell them that we are revamping our sites attitude.

    1. Locking threads is a last resort in all situations going forward. From now on any thread that you feel needs to be locked is to be run by me first. This does not include the following, racist, sexual or personal attacks. Those can be locked immediately. We no longer guess that a forum has run its course and lock it. We no longer lock a thread because of heated discussions. We no longer lock threads because we think it is going to get bad.

    2. Any dispute about yourself from a customer will now be CC'd to me to review as well. If you receive an IM about anyone other than yourself you will forward that to me as well.

    3. I would institute a filter for Cussing on the forums....I would tell my staff we are all adults and the people that use this forum are to. So as long as the cussing does not become gratuitous, vulgar, racist or disparaging another customer in a menacing manner.

    4) I am hiring a slew of younger new moderators. Please help them and train them to do a good job. I will get rid of the bad ones and keep the good ones. I feel we are stagnating and need some fresh air. Change is good, embrace it.


    Other ideas I would suggest to increase revenue and draw in people who have left:

    1. Add on an auction section with ebay style features.
    2. Add a Monthly calendar for all EM's to update like my UltimaOnlineEvents.com so I can stop updating that beast manually. (have already passed this by Taylor)
    3. More contests:
    a) EM event story arch writing, best one gets implemented
    b) Best funny story in Ultima
    c) etc.
    4. Blogs, let the aspiring writers on the forums have a personal place to write about their lives in UO
    5. **stopping here cause I wanna play....more later...
     
  40. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I can tell everyone (without getting in trouble I think), that when someone "reports" a post. It puts a notice on the top of the forum of the forum's moderator, the senior moderators and the admins. Athelas is the only moderator assigned specifically to this forum. Usually there are two so that between them they have an opportunity to address any issues and keep an eye on the forum without one being overworked. With as busy as this forum is, Kelmo, Petra, etc help out extra so that Athelas can have much deserved days off, vacations, etc... it is common for them to respond to an alert if no one grabs it in a reasonable amount of time. It is better to extinguish the spark than a raging wildfire that can occur if not addressed quickly.

    As a moderator, I put in probably 12-15 hours on average into my duties behind the scenes. There is a lot behind the scenes that folks don't see and if you want to really keep an eye on the forum, you have to actually read each and every thread... as I'd say most aren't reported... that takes significantly more time than you think on a forum this busy. Than there are the arguments that go on an unseen and then there are the meetings/discussions you have to have with your bosses when a complaint gets put in. There are investigations to prevent the same person bidding on their items, there are PMs back and forth, not only with those infracted, but everyone else who wants to put their two cents in and then there is all the paperwork to document why you did what action so that when you retire the next guy isn't left without history of the troublemakers.

    There were many, many times I went to bat for this forum's community during my time as moderator that you all were NEVER were aware of. Most of those times had to do with "scammers" who would continue to scam using the forum and couldn't be pointed out due to the rules. Due to the years I spent as a broker and moderator of the original tradespot (with Centurio, Doran M, etc), I have it in my to be hard-wired to fight against them. It is my nature. I fought for every tiny way I could help to point them out to the community while walking that thin line of those rules. I debated I can't remember how many times, fighting to find ways to point them out to the community. An' many of those scammers would fight back behind the scenes when they were unveiled with my suggestions to search the history of folks etc. At times it was ugly. At times I got in Petra's face verbally fighting for what I had done and proving that I didn't break those rules. When you become a moderator... you are REQUIRED to enforce all of the rules, even if you do not personally agree with them. I got away with the few times I could point things out by trying to find a way around them without breaking them directly. An' you know what? I got called every name in the book (and I do mean every), not only on the forums, but ICQ too. Telling me I was "supporting the scammers" and I didn't care about the community. I've had years and years moderating for different platforms and you need a steel skin and the confidence to not cry at the way many members of this community will talk to you behind the scenes.

    All these moderators are people. All these higher ups are people. People have lives outside these forums and when you crap on them, you have no idea the ******** that they are having to deal with in their real lives outside these unpaid positions. Every time you call them names, insult them or whatever... you are hurting another human being and it accomplishes nothing for any argument. Some of your moderators are dealing with tragedies and challenges in their lives that they don't vocalize. Some are dealing with medical conditions that cause them pain, some have lost someone close to them and some may be fighting some other struggle.


    We are all human beings and this forum may not be perfect... but that doesn't mean the staff or the community should be at each other's throats. Life is way too short to be stressed out and to waste your time doing anything other than living.
     
  41. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Thank you.
     
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  42. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
    Professional Stratics Veteran Supporter Stratics Legend Glorious Lord ACW

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    Well said friend. I agree and support this entire statement.

    I do believe it's Taco Tuesday. Take the family out and have a good time. :)

    I will head on over to Dragonstorm and peruse the shops while your out enjoying yourself.

    Being a Mod is often a thankless job. Please take time and do thank them from time to time. They are all true gems in their own right.

    *Stands and raises a glass of Good Old Moonglow Red in salute of our volunteers*
     
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  43. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I have no skin in this game... My play ground will never meet yours.
     
  44. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Except that one time... *smiles*
     
  45. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Seriously rare folk... I am not going away. Best way to deal with me is honesty.
     
  46. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Kelmo, who are you responding to?
     
  47. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    The inverse is also true.
     
  48. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    What does this even mean kelmo? You are speaking in riddles that we do not understand LOL
     
  49. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    :D he means he doesn't collect rares, so there's no conflict of interests.
    Athelas is undergoing a severe attack of Real Life which limits his availability to moderate, which is why you have Kelmo and I responding to post reports.
    Assia, I hope you know there were never any hard feelings when we put our heads together to try to protect the community from scammers without flouting the rules.
    We even added a new rule, which though it is applied in several ways, was principly for the protection of this group - Misuse of an alt account.
    I guess I'm possibly over-sensitive about the no names rule having been a victim of the abuse of it some years ago. Thinking about that episode still hurts.
     
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  50. Kolka

    Kolka Babbling Loonie
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    Petra, I guess it really is how you say it as much as what you say (to paraphrase one of your earlier posts). There is a big difference between saying "Athelas is not as available as she would otherwise be, so we are stepping in for her. We aren't rares collectors so bear with us" and a series of posts along the lines "I'm not one of you people........i don't understand you people........ i'm here to stay.......just saying.......".
    A shame really, because both threads could have turned into really interesting conversations - the one that was locked where I THINK he was trying to ask "what about rares interests you collectors" ( i.e. what makes you pay $13 a month to collect imaginary things) and this one where he asked what rules would you add/change and Longtooths responded. It has the appearance anyway of turning into a conversation that is both civil and substantial.