-
Hail Guest! We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
-
Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
-
Hail Guest!, Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
-
Hail Guest! Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!
L
LoL/Sonoma
Guest
I'm sure it is. The old guard developers are all obsessed with social gaming right now. They see the opportunity for tens of millions of players as the excuse to develop on a crappy, limited platform.
It is killing me that there are no serious attempts at another sandbox MMO right now. Everyone is trying to beat WoW by creating a clone ... which obviously has worked so well up to this point.
It is killing me that there are no serious attempts at another sandbox MMO right now. Everyone is trying to beat WoW by creating a clone ... which obviously has worked so well up to this point.
the only other real sandbox game besides UO (and the core developers were all UO Players) is: EVE Online - a massive multiplayer online roleplaying space game - MMORPG
Social gaming does not have to be "Facebook games", that is just an association that has come about through most social games being on facebook.
Any game can be social, as long as it encourages interaction between players. It could be argued that early UO included social game mechanics, through the need for players to work together and seek others out for services (although the in-game tools to facilitate the social aspects of the game are lacking, somewhat).
Also, for purer sandbox examples, there are always Second Life and Minecraft.
Any game can be social, as long as it encourages interaction between players. It could be argued that early UO included social game mechanics, through the need for players to work together and seek others out for services (although the in-game tools to facilitate the social aspects of the game are lacking, somewhat).
Also, for purer sandbox examples, there are always Second Life and Minecraft.
L
LoL/Sonoma
Guest
Most times (recently) when people refer to "Social gaming" they are cutting out the word "network" as i was. Any online game with mutiple people can be considered social (shooters might be considered anti-social 
... [edit - didnt we used to have a devil smiley?!]), but "social gaming" lately tends to mean "social network gaming". This language is changing pretty quickly right now as people need a way to define Facebook-type games and differentiate them from every other game played online with other people (which almost all have their own terminology at this point: MMORPG, MMOFPS, etc etc)
These social games aren't inherently bad, just typically VERY limited. As more developers try to get their piece of this pie, we arae left with less development on the core platforms (PC gaming being the most obvious).
I am hoping that the current interest in making money by online entertainments leads to more developers in the mix rather than the same developers we've always had trying to do more things.
... [edit - didnt we used to have a devil smiley?!]), but "social gaming" lately tends to mean "social network gaming". This language is changing pretty quickly right now as people need a way to define Facebook-type games and differentiate them from every other game played online with other people (which almost all have their own terminology at this point: MMORPG, MMOFPS, etc etc)These social games aren't inherently bad, just typically VERY limited. As more developers try to get their piece of this pie, we arae left with less development on the core platforms (PC gaming being the most obvious).
I am hoping that the current interest in making money by online entertainments leads to more developers in the mix rather than the same developers we've always had trying to do more things.
No it really isn't in my view. It is a combat based character advancement model, just happens to have open skills and not DIKU,
On what systems besides combat and resource gathering do you base this comment?
L
LoL/Sonoma
Guest
Well, you can survive in EVE without any combat ... it is just boring as hell. Frankly, i found EVE to be very interesting as far as world and story, but very boring to play.
Everything just happened too slowly.
Everything just happened too slowly.
I´m playing it since the release - so almost 7 years by now.
It was the first game that could drive me away from UO - but High Seas brought me back for some more UO-Fun
EVE has enormous Economy-possibilities (trading & manufacturing) for players not interested in Fighting / PvP
with their up-coming avatar-expansion (called "incarna", that will be coming soon™) they´ll probably cater more to the socializers and offer a whole new gameplay besides pewpew-Lazers.
W
Woodsman
Guest
It doesn't have to be, but a lot of them focus on Facebook or something similar, because the draw of 10s of millions of people having iPhones and Android phones is really strong. Those devices are always with them. If Apple hadn't managed to really push the smartphone market into the pockets of normal consumers, I don't think there would be as much of an emphasis.
You will see a lot more MMOs using those avenues or other mobile or web-based aspects to keep players attached to the games. World of Warcraft - you can setup or bid on auctions on the go, deal with messaging, research armor and weapons, etc., with the official World of Warcraft mobile apps on an iPhone.
The appeal is just to strong to developers - having your customers/players always have access to your games or to game content on their smartphones, you just can't ignore it because it's so simple and cheap to do, and it's a really means of player retention.
I'm surprised it's taken EA this long to start on a web-based Sims Online, because that's just ripe for this whole social networking thing.
Why would you be surprised by EA being dreadfully behind the times on something that, had they not been behind, they could have made a lot of cash from?
-Galen's player
To me 'sandbox' implies a broad variety of gameplay activities within a single game. Bobby builds sandcastles with trucks while Suzie plays dolls, and Joe and Fred are over in the corner hitting each other with wooden swords. Plus a dozen other game play systems. When Eve gets fishing, gardening, persistent world objects, let me know. Having resource gathering, some crafting, and an 'economy' misses the larger part of the definition. WoW and LotRO has all that and more and few people would call them a sandbox.
I understand Eve is a great and popular game, it just doesn't hit enough of the buttons for me to call it a sandbox. There have really only been two: UO and SWG. And SWG never really got that far either before it got whacked into primarily character advancement.
Well, enough to this. Everybody is free to use whatever labels they like. I can only hope the Garriott imagination is a bit bigger then the stuff coming to market now.
I understand Eve is a great and popular game, it just doesn't hit enough of the buttons for me to call it a sandbox. There have really only been two: UO and SWG. And SWG never really got that far either before it got whacked into primarily character advancement.
Well, enough to this. Everybody is free to use whatever labels they like. I can only hope the Garriott imagination is a bit bigger then the stuff coming to market now.
W
Woodsman
Guest
I've played it off and on since release as well, and it's hard to PvP in other games after EVE. It's just hard to quickly explain to people who haven't played EVE, just as the appeal of UO is hard to explain to people who haven't played. To another UO player, I can talk about housing or skills and it clicks with them instantly, but not so with somebody who is coming from Warcraft.I´m playing it since the release - so almost 7 years by now.
It was the first game that could drive me away from UO - but High Seas brought me back for some more UO-Fun
EVE has enormous Economy-possibilities (trading & manufacturing) for players not interested in Fighting / PvP
with their up-coming avatar-expansion (called "incarna", that will be coming soon™) they´ll probably cater more to the socializers and offer a whole new gameplay besides pewpew-Lazers.
The bigger thing with EVE is the upcoming MMOFPS, Dust 514. EVE Online is going to be the first mainstream mega MMO, since there will be two different MMOs running within the same universe and interacting with one another. The industry is going to be watching that closely.
Garriott is waiting on a lawsuit to be finalized and for the other party to run out of appeals before he can kick back. He went through a lot of money with this space station adventure as well as his other adventures.
People with that kind of money though, and that have a chip on their shoulder, aren't going to sit around just being rich. He feels like he has a lot to prove, to himself, to his fans, and to companies like EA. It probably gnaws at him constantly, especially since he is almost always introduced within the context of having created Ultima and been a part of the creation of UO.
check out Darkfall Online, its a sandbox mmo that i've been playing for 2 years, very similar to old school uo with felucca only, full loot, you gain skills not levels, make whatever template you want Darkfall
same goes for you Darkfall darkfall just won best pvp game of the year on one of the game reviewing websites, its only for the hardcore though
and yes they do have player housing in it, treasure maps, ships with cannons etcthis is one of the videos that good me hooked YouTube - Darkfall is coming
i don't even pvp much like most people do in the game, i do a lot of pve and crafting and such, but i like the fact that theres a risk in everything you do
L
LoL/Sonoma
Guest
Ya. Darkfall has no real interest to me due to the VERY heavy focus on PvP (almost to the exclusion of anything else). I'm one of those people that was happy when they added Tram to UO. I dont want my fun interrupted/ruined so someone else can have theirs (ie by killing me and taking what i spent the last X hours/minutes collecting).
Most players would appear to agree with you; this can be inferred quite reasonably from the fact that successive dev teams have felt obliged to provide incentives to get people there, from Khaldun to power scrolls to double resources to double fame to Faction Artifacts and probably other stuff I'm not thinking of to get people there. And the fact that someone actually asked, at the video house of commons, for more incentives to be added.
-Galen's player
You know... my problem with "social gaming" is that it really isn't social gaming at all. The typical Zynga game involves you visiting your neighbors, sure, but you don't really interact with them. MMOs are the true "social" outlets for gaming. You might as well call most of the "social gaming" games out there "Real-Time Turn-Based Sims."
The other problem I see is that they are typically not for casual gamers, and feed more into the addictive qualities of gaming. Plant your crops, but "oh crap, I forgot that it's a two-hour crop... sorry, Bob, I can't go out tonight."
If anything, game developers should be moving away from this schlock, not hopping onto a flash-in-the-pan bandwagon.
The other problem I see is that they are typically not for casual gamers, and feed more into the addictive qualities of gaming. Plant your crops, but "oh crap, I forgot that it's a two-hour crop... sorry, Bob, I can't go out tonight."
If anything, game developers should be moving away from this schlock, not hopping onto a flash-in-the-pan bandwagon.
Oh, and as for the Garriot quotation:
At this point, some decade and then some later, I question whether Garriot would even have a clue as to where to pick up or what to do with the Ultima series, and I'm not sure I'd want him working on any online version of it at all.
Now... Designer Dragon... there's a man I wish would come back to UO.
Let's remember that the later Ultimas pretty much pretend that the earlier Ultimas didn't exist, and that the latest Ultimas (VIII, IX) suffered probably as much from EA as from Garriot.
At this point, some decade and then some later, I question whether Garriot would even have a clue as to where to pick up or what to do with the Ultima series, and I'm not sure I'd want him working on any online version of it at all.
Now... Designer Dragon... there's a man I wish would come back to UO.
EVE is not all that far different from UO, in terms of range of freedom.
While UO has many things EVE doesn't have, EVE similarly has many things that UO doesn't (although both have a lot of their mechanics ultimately feeding a PvP/E core to the game).
Housing is something that UO offers that I don't believe can be compared to anything in EVE (although captains' quarters are being implemented), but beyond that fishing is another flavour of resource gathering, and gardening is resource gathering wrapped up in a minigame.
EVE's economy is solid, and it gives you the freedom to play any role in it (including hauling of cargo between systems). Also, the PvP is such that there is a place for everyone in a large battle.
In the end, I think that EVE is actually a stronger sandbox, because it's been maintained as such, while much of UO's sandbox features have been allowed to decay into marginality.
While some people may disagree with this because of the potential for sandbox play, I couldn't agree more. How many accounts are there with similarly templated characters? I feel like there's more variaton playing some FPS games. Sure, there are always the independent types who create weird templates just to be original, but they are usually more limited in what they can do. There are also the know-it-all types (usually sampire/whammy or some freakish bybrid variation) who think they've unlocked the magic template that can kill any monster... but it usually isn't long before everyone else has the same thing. How long have skills like forensic evaluation and taste ID been in the game without use? Since the beginning right? Even most roleplayers ignore those skills for the most part because there has never been much use for them.
come on people ... just how smart do you think Garriot is ?
he was killed by a frickin' fire field for crying out loud
he was killed by a frickin' fire field for crying out loud
Scrolling back through his Twitter posts, here's one from late last year: "RPG gamers fear not! Portalarium has deeper offerings in the works! Small games help us build tools and audience. Lord British games coming!"
Link: Twitter / Richard Garriott: RPG gamers fear not! Porta ...
This is good to read, sort of. I would like to see Garriot produce the spiritual successor to the (single-player) Ultima series, but not Ultima Online (unless EA hired him to do it officially, which is doubtful to say the least). Ultima Online should be its own successor--meaning, whatever engine(s) come along in the future should re-imagine the game world without replacing peoples characters and belongings. After fourteen years, no one wants to lose their stuff.
UO shouldn't NEED a spiritual successor anyway, since it's still quite alive. Rather than leave it behind for another MMO, I'd like UO to continue evolving in novel ways. Calvin Crowner and his team are capable of this, but EA needs to keep investing resources into the game. The Enhanced Client is a huge leap in a good direction, but I half-expect it won't be the final contender for the Classic Client's unswayed die-hard player base.
Though for that matter, I'm not sure CC users ought to be swayed. Personally, if I could play the Classic Client using the Enhanced Client's UI, I'd be in paradise. CC's character and environment graphics. EC's hotbars, maps, gumps.
Link: Twitter / Richard Garriott: RPG gamers fear not! Porta ...
This is good to read, sort of. I would like to see Garriot produce the spiritual successor to the (single-player) Ultima series, but not Ultima Online (unless EA hired him to do it officially, which is doubtful to say the least). Ultima Online should be its own successor--meaning, whatever engine(s) come along in the future should re-imagine the game world without replacing peoples characters and belongings. After fourteen years, no one wants to lose their stuff.
UO shouldn't NEED a spiritual successor anyway, since it's still quite alive. Rather than leave it behind for another MMO, I'd like UO to continue evolving in novel ways. Calvin Crowner and his team are capable of this, but EA needs to keep investing resources into the game. The Enhanced Client is a huge leap in a good direction, but I half-expect it won't be the final contender for the Classic Client's unswayed die-hard player base.
Though for that matter, I'm not sure CC users ought to be swayed. Personally, if I could play the Classic Client using the Enhanced Client's UI, I'd be in paradise. CC's character and environment graphics. EC's hotbars, maps, gumps.
L
LoL/Sonoma
Guest
Sign me upThough for that matter, I'm not sure CC users ought to be swayed. Personally, if I could play the Classic Client using the Enhanced Client's UI, I'd be in paradise. CC's character and environment graphics. EC's hotbars, maps, gumps.
Me too!Sign me upThough for that matter, I'm not sure CC users ought to be swayed. Personally, if I could play the Classic Client using the Enhanced Client's UI, I'd be in paradise. CC's character and environment graphics. EC's hotbars, maps, gumps.
D
Davin Darkblade
Guest
Lord British already said on that same FBook page that just because it's a "social game" doesn't mean it has to be some browser based Java game.
All he wants is the connectivity/networking of a social game. It's no different to another unknown sandbox MMO, Mortal Online, which now offers discounts to subscribers who link their Facebook page with their MO account.
It's a great way to involve friends and spread the word.
As for his comment, I couldn't agree more. While I'm happy with the current developers for UO, we had this horrible period of "good game design, poor Ultima design" during the last decade or so.
There are lots of rumours of an Ultima title, EA is actively closing many fan remakes or the so called "freeware Ultima 4". So whatever they are planning, it will be Ultima in name. Much like that disgrace that is "Lord of Ultima". Great game? Certainly and I mean no disrespect toward the developers. Good Ultima game? No. It more or less stole the name.
All he wants is the connectivity/networking of a social game. It's no different to another unknown sandbox MMO, Mortal Online, which now offers discounts to subscribers who link their Facebook page with their MO account.
It's a great way to involve friends and spread the word.
As for his comment, I couldn't agree more. While I'm happy with the current developers for UO, we had this horrible period of "good game design, poor Ultima design" during the last decade or so.
There are lots of rumours of an Ultima title, EA is actively closing many fan remakes or the so called "freeware Ultima 4". So whatever they are planning, it will be Ultima in name. Much like that disgrace that is "Lord of Ultima". Great game? Certainly and I mean no disrespect toward the developers. Good Ultima game? No. It more or less stole the name.
Lord Gareth
UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
Tweet Parody
RichardGareth Tweets
I can't control EA plans for the word Ultima. But we all know that only my team can bankrupt a company and fail to have another successful game last longer then 2years.
(Original Tweet)
RichardGarriott
I can't control EA plans for the word Ultima. But we all know that only my team can create the true heir to my previous work.
Thanks but I'll take Cal and Mesanna's team for 500 please Alex.
Anygame, Anywhere and Anytime
RichardGareth Tweets
I can't control EA plans for the word Ultima. But we all know that only my team can bankrupt a company and fail to have another successful game last longer then 2years.
(Original Tweet)
RichardGarriott
I can't control EA plans for the word Ultima. But we all know that only my team can create the true heir to my previous work.
Thanks but I'll take Cal and Mesanna's team for 500 please Alex.
Anygame, Anywhere and Anytime
That's why Star Wars Galaxies was fun. They allowed you to AFK macro, lol. They had a built in macro editor that let you loop one macro endlessly by linking it to other macros. They also had machines to get resources for you that had a maintenance cost. The character templates also relied on other character templates as to get buffs and the like, while the skill system was a hybrid, university-like set-up, with tiers and prerequisites.
But the PvP/PvM sucked lol...everything else was cool ;S.
oh man... not another of these threads...
W
Woodsman
Guest
What EA has done is barred websites from distributing Ultima IV without permission. Websites that had permission to distribute Ultima IV are still allowed to do so, and are still doing so - you can still download Ultima IV for free from those websites.
They also went after two websites that offered a straight-up Ultima IV experience with Flash. That doesn't qualify as "many". There are projects that they didn't touch that are remakes, such as xu4, and they also left all of the other Ultima fan projects alone.
Paul Barnett apparently wants to make some kind of web/Facebook version of Ultima IV or something. I'd rather he and the others at BioWare that like this would throw their weight behind Ultima Online, but web-based games are huge at EA right now. Witness the Sims Online remake.
I never played an Ultima other than Online but if UO IV is anything like Final Fantasy was then that would rock as a FB game. Most FB games are really crappy, and they are created on the basis that you can never sleep lol. But an old school RPG party game would be dope to play online if done right.
G
grig_since98
Guest
The old Ultima games are story based in the same manner, but much less linear. Do yourself a favor and find a copy of Ultima VI and run it with DOSBox. A lot of people would suggest U7, but it might be hard to get to run because of its proprietary memory manager. I haven't tried it yet.
There is also a fan project of U6 online. May check that out.
I remember one of the hardest parts of Ultima VII was to get it to run.
W
Woodsman
Guest
Ultima VI is definitely worth checking out in light of Stygian Abyss.
Both getting it to run right and having a powerful enough computer at the time. Origin really used to like pushing hardware back in the day.
Your best bet for Ultima VII is Exult - it uses the original game data files, but it features a new engine that lets you skip the problems with getting it to run on modern OSes, and it's cross-platform - Windows, Mac, Linux.
There are similar projects for Ultima VI and Ultima VIII (why I don't know) as well as the Worlds of Ultima games.
What do you mean by "combat based character advancement model" in EVE?
Skills in EVE increase automatically over time, you don't even need to use them as in UO. You could maximize all of your crafting or even combat skills without ever firing a single shot...
And most equipment is crafted. I don't know if some resources are available only in PvP areas, but even in this case you would still have the option of making a ton of money in safe zones to buy resources from other players.
In my opinion this is completely opposite to a "combat based character advancement model" but maybe you have a different definition.
Of course, the game is focused on PvP so you miss a lot of the fun if you don't want to take part in that - but you can still play a perfectly successful character worrying only about the economical aspect.
It isn't about the method of advancement, its about the 'goals' of the game. Yes, I did leave out crafting, resource gathering, and merchant and from my understanding Eve does well with those.
However, the original point was about what makes a game a sandbox. And to me, it is the breadth of the character goals that define it. In UO you can be a warrior in lots of varieties, a thief, a murder, a treasure hunter, a fisherman, a craftsman in multiple flavors, etc etc. And combinations of those. And the game provides skills that support those roles so you advance in them, not just role play. Those skill sets form the advancement goals of the game.
But we are really arguing just over the definition of a broadly used term and while somewhat interesting is really off the topic and pointless.
I read the OP link from Richard Garrot and imo I think its more ego talking if anything. If he was going to really do something and back that comment up he would of did it a long time ago. I bet its more of a facebook game for the quick easy money.
I have to figure out why my XP won't install Service Pack 4, it's on loop (I hate when this happens), then I'll look into DOSBox again. Used it last to run X-Com Apocalypse, I think.
Basara
UO Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Why would anyone WANT to run X-Com Apocalypse?
(BTW, there is a version of X-Com 1 & 2 (And I believe XA) floating around out there that can run natively on XP, where someone hacked the code to where it will work on modern video cards. I've got a X-com game on this machine saved, currently in July 1999, that I play when I don't have net access or UO is lagging). I really need to reinstall DOSBox and get MOO2 reinstalled.
T
TitusPullo
Guest
Takes forever to learn how to play. If you stick through it though, man, it's highly addictive. I'm finally at the point where I know what I'm doing and I can't imagine playing any other game currently on the market.
T
TitusPullo
Guest
So did I. I found it so boring and quit playing for about half a year. My friend kept begging me to resub on the promise I'd fall in love if I just stuck through the learning curve. He was right.
I love how the game is run by the players. I joined an alliance that owns a small sector of null sec space. We make our own laws, elect our leaders, etc.
Plus.. I just love scanning down a wormhole and never knowing what kind of ancient relic I might stumble upon and make a fortune from. =)
W
Woodsman
Guest
Interesting...
Gamasutra - News - MI6: Electronic Arts Aims for Facebook Dominance
Gamasutra - News - MI6: Electronic Arts Aims for Facebook Dominance
Sims Online is a part of that I'm sure, but I think this Ultima IV thing will be as well. EA could very well just start throwing stuff at social gaming, just like they did for the iPhone (which made them plenty of money).
A
AesSedai
Guest
- So do you all think EA still considers Ultima to be a 'blue chip IP'? - How has UO been treated in the past few years? - Sure, they also pissed away the Sims IP with their upper-mismanagement and yet still seem willing to spend heavily on it; but ya' think they've poured resources into UOs IP lately? Ya' think they are heavily vested in UO, other than to promote their latest MMO? - Aye, okay..
- Hello Mr Garriott, glad to see you back on 'your own' again. We'll talk again, soon. The only reason I ever liked EA again, after their premature (buggy) release of Marble Madness on C64 (with plenty of EA experience), was because of you, LB, and Ultima's involvement. Thanks sir.
W
Woodsman
Guest
EA is going to spend over $100 million advertising Battlefield 3. Dragon Age sold one million copies in the first two weeks. Mass Effect 2 sold a couple of million within the first week or two. While those and a lot of the sports games are "blue chip IPs", unlike UO, they have pushed out plenty of non-blue chip IPs to the iPhone, and I think it'll be the same here.
Since it's being driven from the top of EA, every major group within EA will want to get in on this, and there is already a web-based/social networking Ultima IP that is active. BioWare's recent major games have been heavily promoted through social networking avenues, and there is somebody within BioWare that has a little clout, claims to have the support of Ray Muzyka, and is about as big of a fanboy for Ultima IV as you could get.
Plus EA went after the two sites that had done straight-up web-based/Flash-based remakes of Ultima IV.
So yeah, I do expect that you'll see a little bit of everything being dragged out of EA and tossed onto the web, just like with the iPhone, and I won't be surprised to see Ultima IV make an appearance.
It's a shame though, because they'll put a lot of effort into it that could have better been spent on UO.
Whateve, X-Com Apoc was awesome!Why would anyone WANT to run X-Com Apocalypse?
I really need to reinstall DOSBox and get MOO2 reinstalled.
I never played Terror, started with UFO Defense. I'm still scared of chryssalids. The only sad thing about Apoc was how much of the game wasn't completed. I think the whole series can be downloaded from Steam, now.
A
AesSedai
Guest
- Aye. Don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.. Thx EA,
~Riccitiello
Its indigo {~ a deep reddish blue..}.
~Riccitiello
Its indigo {~ a deep reddish blue..}.
Every x-com game is available from Steam for £8.99 (though I think I paid like £3 for them all in a sale) fully compatible with windows 7.Why would anyone WANT to run X-Com Apocalypse?
I really need to reinstall DOSBox and get MOO2 reinstalled.