Imbuing - Relic Frags

[jradar71]

Has anyone else on origins been watching their unraveling. The feature of being able to unravel items inside any container is great; however, I am noticing that some items that used to give Relics are not anymore. IE... Violet Courage, Heart of the Lion...

Didn't these items give Relics before or am I mistaken?

Gloves of Sun = Relic
Stormgrip = Essence
Rune Beetle = Relic
Ring (417 weight) = Essence

 

[G.v.P]

Has anyone else on origins been watching their unraveling. The feature of being able to unravel items inside any container is great; however, I am noticing that some items that used to give Relics are not anymore. IE... Violet Courage, Heart of the Lion...

Didn't these items give Relics before or am I mistaken?

Gloves of Sun = Relic
Stormgrip = Essence
Rune Beetle = Relic
Ring (417 weight) = Essence

i thought 450 weight/intensity was needed for a relic?

 

[Splup]

i thought 450 weight/intensity was needed for a relic?

425 at queens forge I think.

 

[Shelleybean]

Those artifacts previously gave relics. I unravelled the heart of the lion, violet courage and gloves of the sun on test center and now they give essence.

 

[Lynk]

I was told that intensity > 400% = relic frag @ queens forge?

 

[Storm]

I was told that intensity > 400% = relic frag @ queens forge?

This is correct for a gargoyle at queens forge!
This is before the new changes (they are not on ls yet)

 

[Fink]

Does anyone know the relic fragment limit after these latest changes?

We were told we shouldn't be able craft them, we must get them from enhancing loot or unraveling artifacts. Now it seems even fewer artifacts qualify and damage conversion isn't counted, so.. what does that leave?

There's an old folk saying, it translates roughly as, "embrace the baby too much and you smother it".

 

[Storm]

well sense damage type modifier no longer counts it depends on if loot will get another roll!
and also I thought I read how they were changing the way durability and enhancing where going to effect things?

guess we will find out soon!

 

[Beastmaster]

If you imbue anything to it you can pretty much forget getting a relic from it. If you enhance it, at best you will gain about 20 points of intensity. So with racial bonus, forge bonus, and 20 tops enhance bonus, that leaves you at 381 base needed in order to get a relic.

 

[pgcd]

I am assuming the 401 lower bound for gargoyle at queen's forge remains, what is certainly changed is the "imbued" factor, that is probably something like 70% now, and the enhancement values, which seem to peak at something like 10% of the original intensity for valorite.
Furthermore, I believe lower requirements etc no longer count, but that's not enough to explain why violet courage no longer yields a relic (its intensity is more than 500 any way you want to count it, 546ish from where i'm standing). Furthermore, it appears that it is not imbuable either, which suggests it's actually something like a bug.

 

[Farsight]

I am assuming the 401 lower bound for gargoyle at queen's forge remains, what is certainly changed is the "imbued" factor, that is probably something like 70% now, and the enhancement values, which seem to peak at something like 10% of the original intensity for valorite.
Furthermore, I believe lower requirements etc no longer count, but that's not enough to explain why violet courage no longer yields a relic (its intensity is more than 500 any way you want to count it, 546ish from where i'm standing). Furthermore, it appears that it is not imbuable either, which suggests it's actually something like a bug.

I got 572 from 95 luck, mage armor, 15% DCI and 40 extra resist points.

Still, much more than 401, even if DCI is removed (not a "normal" armor mod, only possible "bug" I can think of on those)

They likely aren't imbuable because the resist mods are split over all five elemental resist types, which would then count at 5 mods (+10 physical, +7 fire, +8 cold, +7 poison, +8 energy on HoL) so the Heart of the lion and Violet Courage has a total of 8 mods each.

 

[pgcd]

I got 572 from 95 luck, mage armor, 15% DCI and 40 extra resist points.

Still, much more than 401, even if DCI is removed (not a "normal" armor mod, only possible "bug" I can think of on those)

They likely aren't imbuable because the resist mods are split over all five elemental resist types, which would then count at 5 mods (+10 physical, +7 fire, +8 cold, +7 poison, +8 energy on HoL) so the Heart of the lion and Violet Courage has a total of 8 mods each.

I suspect the "bug" is with the resists, that might be due to a "special material" instead of standard properties. So, it would all be discarded and leave the intensity at 300ish...

 

[aarons6]

great so are devs trying to kill this skill on purpose?

lets just make relics so hard to get they cost 20m each..

we only had a few general wep combos that 100% made relics..
these were
sc +1, ubws,neon and enhanced.. i used to get plenty of those..

now what?

ive never gotten a relic from armor loot..
every time i tried to enhance it broke.

 

[Mistura]

I got 572 from 95 luck, mage armor, 15% DCI and 40 extra resist points.

Is it just me or has this game finally just become one big arithmetic problem?

We began simply fighting monsters, looting and trading goods, crafting and PvPing and now it’s becoming an ever more perplexing game of numbers and formulas…

 

[Winker]

great so are devs trying to kill this skill on purpose?

lets just make relics so hard to get they cost 20m each..

we only had a few general wep combos that 100% made relics..
these were
sc +1, ubws,neon and enhanced.. i used to get plenty of those..

now what?

ive never gotten a relic from armor loot..
every time i tried to enhance it broke.

You may want to try this on the test server before you start crying.!

I just been on the test center and i got more relics that i normaly get from crafting stuff. No need to enhance anything for a relic either. I made 35 items and got 29 relics... more than i get on a production shard at this point in time for the same items. Almost one third more than normal.

So stop your cry and thank the devs for their hard work then whish them a merry Xmas and be on your way.

 

[altarego]

Is it just me or has this game finally just become one big arithmetic problem?

We began simply fighting monsters, looting and trading goods, crafting and PvPing and now it’s becoming an ever more perplexing game of numbers and formulas…

I both agree...and laugh at the same time.

Almost all RPG adventures in the past have been nothing more than "one big arithmetic problem" with some sort of pseudo-random number generator thrown in to give it an element of chance.

Oh...and players too.

 

[pgcd]

You may want to try this on the test server before you start crying.!

I just been on the test center and i got more relics that i normaly get from crafting stuff. No need to enhance anything for a relic either. I made 35 items and got 29 relics... more than i get on a production shard at this point in time for the same items. Almost one third more than normal.

You made those items with what? I got nothing like that from, say, golden hammers, and even if i did, the price would still be higher than it currently is.

 

[Fink]

Is it just me or has this game finally just become one big arithmetic problem?

We began simply fighting monsters, looting and trading goods, crafting and PvPing and now it’s becoming an ever more perplexing game of numbers and formulas…

I believe it's the result of a system designed by engineers, not engineered by designers.

Math is a necessary evil in RPGs, but in paper-and-dice days your GM did most of the math for you, and you were free to create. With the advent of computers there should be even less onus on the end-user to do number crunching, but every nerf sledges us with a new ream of math homework. The trouble with that is every batch of answers we come up with prompts the developers to come up with a new list of questions.

This is not game-play; if these changes were entirely necessary, then this is play-testing and QA that should have been finalised before the expansion left beta, and before players were expected to pay for it. Some minor tweaking is accommodated in an online game, but this is getting silly. How many revisions has this one system undergone in mere months when there is so much more that needs attention, some issues stretching back over a decade?

 

[altarego]

I believe it's the result of a system designed by engineers, not engineered by designers.

Math is a necessary evil in RPGs, but in paper-and-dice days your GM did most of the math for you, and you were free to create. With the advent of computers there should be even less onus on the end-user to do number crunching, but every nerf sledges us with a new ream of math homework. The trouble with that is every batch of answers we come up with prompts the developers to come up with a new list of questions.

This is not game-play; if these changes were entirely necessary, then this is play-testing and QA that should have been finalised before the expansion left beta, and before players were expected to pay for it. Some minor tweaking is accommodated in an online game, but this is getting silly. How many revisions has this one system undergone in mere months when there is so much more that needs attention, some issues stretching back over a decade?

I don't agree with this assertion. The math is done for us, automatically, and with great complexity. The computer does do the work for us, quickly and with immediate effect.

It is only our indomitable need to...err...dominate, within the context of this framework, that people go to great lengths to pester the devs (GM, if you will) for the formulas they use. And when those questions do not produce clear answers, players crowdsource in order to reverse engineer an approximation.

No matter how big the QA dept can get, there will never be a product released that will please everyone. I think anyone in the SA beta (myself included) will agree that there have been many iterations of Imbuing. It looks very different now than when it was initially implemented. Evolution is good.

Ultimately, this is only a numbers game if you want it to be. Personally, I wouldn't be able to differentiate a DPS from a GGS from an SOS. I just grab a sword or a bow and run out and start whacking things to see what works better.

That is what gameplay is.

If anything, the devs are the designers, and the players are the engineers trying to deconstruct their game.

 

[Fink]

Honestly, I couldn't care if they abolished relic fragments and that was that. So long as that was that, and we knew where we stood. This whole Imbuing revision cycle is like trying to talk to someone who qualifies every other statement with "j/k".

I've always tried to play a crafter-merchant with consistency, quality, and sound knowledge. It's very hard to do so when being repeatedly undermined by people who don't seem to subscribe to those ideals. I know this not to be the case with our dev team, but that is the impression this whole to-and-fro leaves.

 

[Beastmaster]

I made 35 items and got 29 relics...

Without asking you to divulge your entire secret, it would be helpful to the rest of us if you stated whether or not you used a runic tool and whether you were crafting standard items or higher level items that require special ingredients.

 

[Beastmaster]

Honestly, I couldn't care if they abolished relic fragments and that was that. So long as that was that, and we knew where we stood. This whole Imbuing revision cycle is like trying to talk to someone who qualifies every other statement with "j/k".

It is so frustrating to me because the approach seems to be to make them as rare as possible and they are not even the top end needed ingredient for the particular property you are imbuing. Add to the that the fact that a failed attempt will cost you those relic fragments and it becomes a nightmare to offer your services to someone.

Joe:Here are 10 arties for you to destroy to get those relics you need.
Smitty:OK thanks. Now I can imbue that awesome mod for you to complete that sword.
Smitty: oops! I failed. dang! Sorry I lost 4 relics on that attempt. Go get me 4 more arties.
Joe:WTF!

 

[Fink]

It is so frustrating to me because the approach seems to be to make them as rare as possible and they are not even the top end needed ingredient for the particular property you are imbuing

I think this is forgotten.

Basic ingredients: magical residue, enchanted essence, relic fragments
Supplementary ingredients: npc gems
Rare ingredients: all that hinky Ter Mur/Abyss/Tomb of Kings loot

I now have a fair stockpile of rare ingredients, just from stumbling blindly around the abyss with that crummy shepherd character I mentioned in popps' tyball thread. Stuff I thought would be exotic and difficult to acquire, essences that afford awesome mods like SSI or Hit Lightning. Turns out you can loot it from basic goblins and snakes a couple of screens away from the Abyss stairs on the Underworld side. And you don't even burn this exotic stuff on fails. Relic fragments, a basic ingredient, are proving somewhat more elusive and you lose 5 at once. Seems a little off to me.

 

[Winker]

Without asking you to divulge your entire secret, it would be helpful to the rest of us if you stated whether or not you used a runic tool and whether you were crafting standard items or higher level items that require special ingredients.

Normally I would have no problem in telling everyone, but every time someone says how to make relics here on UHall the Dev's read it then nerf it. So you will excuse me for keeping tight lipped on an open forum that the Dev's read and react to.

 

[Beastmaster]

Normally I would have no problem in telling everyone, but every time someone says how to make relics here on UHall the Dev's read it then nerf it. So you will excuse me for keeping tight lipped on an open forum that the Dev's read and react to.

Can't argue with that. That is exactly what they have been doing. Seems like it has been a concerted effort to frustrate us at every turn with this new system.

 

[altarego]

Normally I would have no problem in telling everyone, but every time someone says how to make relics here on UHall the Dev's read it then nerf it. So you will excuse me for keeping tight lipped on an open forum that the Dev's read and react to.

Can't argue with that. That is exactly what they have been doing. Seems like it has been a concerted effort to frustrate us at every turn with this new system.

Isn't it supposed to be a challenge?

I recall during the first few years of UO that seeing a GM Smith was like pants-peeing, drool-slobbering, awe-inducing experience. It seems people want more and faster, no matter what it takes. Why can't you just be happy being a 110 Artificer? or maybe even a 90, for the moment?

'Seems like it has been a concerted effort to frustrate the devs at every turn with their unintended loopholes in the system.'

 

[Shelleybean]

Some of the minor artifacts still give relics. I did some tests on Test Center with 120 imbuing, gargoyle character at the queen's forge. The following minor artifacts still give relics:
blaze of death
heavy ranger's nox bow
raed's glory
fleshripper
polar bear mask
blade dance
shield of invul.
soulseeker
staff of power
boomstick
pixie swatter
cold blood
legs of stability
gloves of the sun

It's a pretty big nerf and I wonder if it was intended or not. I would really like to know what the developers want us to do to acquire relics.

 

[Beastmaster]

I recall during the first few years of UO that seeing a GM Smith was like pants-peeing, drool-slobbering, awe-inducing experience. It seems people want more and faster, no matter what it takes. Why can't you just be happy being a 110 Artificer? or maybe even a 90, for the moment?

Where was skill gain mentioned in any post I made in this thread or any post in this thread I replied to?

We're talking about the ability to acquire BASIC ingredients to couple with the RARE ingredients, to use the skill we have.

 

[Beastmaster]

It's a pretty big nerf and I wonder if it was intended or not. I would really like to know what the developers want us to do to acquire relics.

My feeling is they want us to farm Doom.
I didn't count the items in your list there, but weren't some of them Tokuno minors? which no longer drop?

 

[Raider Red]

My feeling is they want us to farm Doom.
I didn't count the items in your list there, but weren't some of them Tokuno minors? which no longer drop?

those are paragon/ml/lvl6 t-map arties.

 

[miss uo]

You made those items with what? I got nothing like that from, say, golden hammers, and even if i did, the price would still be higher than it currently is.

You dont need a golden runic..............bronze hammer and val ingot gives 100% relics.

 

[altarego]

You dont need a golden runic..............bronze hammer and val ingot gives 100% relics.

Woo hoo! Devs, get on it. Right quick!

 

[miss uo]

Woo hoo! Devs, get on it. Right quick!

oh plz........not like its anything new

 

[T'Challa]

You dont need a golden runic..............bronze hammer and val ingot gives 100% relics.

I call shenanigans!

Building what item!?

 

[Raider Red]

I call shenanigans!

Building what item!?

I am guessing any samurai plate armor becasue of the"free" mage property on the exceptional items.

 

[Beastmaster]

I am guessing any samurai plate armor becasue of the"free" mage property on the exceptional items.

Nope. That no longer counts toward unraveling. See patch notes.

 

[Raider Red]

Nope. That no longer counts toward unraveling. See patch notes.

oops.I should think before I type.

OH well it isn't the first time I been wrong,and it definately wont be the last.