Imagine a world...

[Trebr Drab]

Remember that short and long term murder counts took 8 hours and 40 hours respectively to burn off, so I don't think it was quite as easy as some people think. It would quite literally take days or weeks to burn off murder counts, so a player macroing for that reason did not have an "easy road" ahead of them by any means.

For anyone who may be unfamiliar, I'll include a link to more detailed information: The Murder System

Also, murderers faced stat loss when they died. That is the "problem" with the justice system that many are describing. Murderers must die in order to face the greatest consequence of their actions, so they did whatever they could to avoid dying. Once the murderer character inevitably died, in my experience, those murderer characters disappeared and were never seen again, or at least not soon after.



I did not play a murderer character consistently, but I did understand the mechanics of playing as a murderer character. I found more entertainment in hunting the PKs than I did playing as one myself, so that is why I feel the way I do about it.

The stat penalty was at resurrection, not at death. So they'd simply stay as a ghost, and run a macro to remain in the game all day long. Or, they could go to a bank and not auto log out because of things moving around them. Again, all day long. It wasn't too long before they had that character back, and without a stat loss penalty. In the meantime, they were out PKing again with a second account in many cases.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Remember that short and long term murder counts took 8 hours and 40 hours respectively to burn off, so I don't think it was quite as easy as some people think. It would quite literally take days or weeks to burn off murder counts, so a player macroing for that reason did not have an "easy road" ahead of them by any means.

I can't imagine too many things that are easier than logging into UO and then going to sleep...can you?

It might have been time consuming, but it wasn't difficult...not by a long shot.

I found more entertainment in hunting the PKs than I did playing as one myself, so that is why I feel the way I do about it.

I did as well. To me, trying to help solve the problem of the 'evil that had befallen our land' was UO. After that was gone, it just became hanging out with friends and doing the exact same stuff over, and over, and over again...then eventually that turned into hanging out with pretty much no one and doing the same stuff over, and over, and over again.

 

[copycon]

I can't imagine too many things that are easier than logging into UO and then going to sleep...can you?

It might have been time consuming, but it wasn't difficult...not by a long shot.

I never said it was difficult. I tried to choose my words wisely by saying that it wasn't an easy road (i.e. time consuming) though. I like to compare it to staring at a wall for hours on end...

Logging in to UO only to do nothing but stand and burn hours upon hours in ghost form without being able to interact or do much of anything else can be considered a form of torture in my opinion. LOL

I did as well. To me, trying to help solve the problem of the 'evil that had befallen our land' was UO. After that was gone, it just became hanging out with friends and doing the exact same stuff over, and over, and over again...then eventually that turned into hanging out with pretty much no one and doing the same stuff over, and over, and over again.

Yes, exactly. I may have been a little premature with my departure, but I felt the same way and wasn't interested in the outcome of the Trammel introduction. Most of the players today don't fully understand the way UO was before Trammel, and it is sad. They missed a great experience, whether they realize it or not, and I hope that we are all given the opportunity to share that experience again.

 

[copycon]

The stat penalty was at resurrection, not at death. So they'd simply stay as a ghost, and run a macro to remain in the game all day long. Or, they could go to a bank and not auto log out because of things moving around them. Again, all day long. It wasn't too long before they had that character back, and without a stat loss penalty. In the meantime, they were out PKing again with a second account in many cases.

I know.

I addressed that problem in my earlier post. Have you ever endured 40+ hours of UO while doing nothing but staring at yourself and everyone having fun around you? If I were a betting man I would bet not. I have done it and witnessed it, and although I felt somewhat humbled and vindicated, it was not fun for either side.

I hardly think that a second account is a valid point of debate. The same rules still apply to every account owned by the player regardless of how many accounts that player owns.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

I have to disagree. You should not be able to tell the difference from a player to an NPC. They should actually be more capable, especially in the case of guards.

Interactions between players should be side systems that benefit the player by removing penalties. An example: If you get your weapon or armour repaired by a player, it will not lose durability. So, people with imbued items would have an incentive. The way it would work, you put your stuff in the trade window, there's another diamond with repair aside of it, you click the repair button and the items are repaired.

This doesn't mean that you don't have an NPC smith that can repair items because it is necessary to have your items fixed. So, by leaving it up to a player you cause unbalance.

I don't think it would be that difficult to create a Justice System that would work. I would say, have them pay a fine and if they don't have the money to pay the fine, have them sit in jail.

First Offense-10,000 GP or 10 minutes
Second Offense-100,000 GP or 100 minutes
Third Offense-1,000,000 GP or 200 minutes
Fourth Offense-5% of GOLD IN BANK-Minimum 1,500,000 GP or 200 minutes

So, you either spend time in jail or pay a fine.

Stealing could be very similar and also an opportunity for the player to retrieve their stolen items from a box at the jail.

Create some type of Guard System so it's easy to get caught in town and the further away from town the less likely it is to get caught at all.

But, also, you should be able to kill the guard, so that if you're a good player, you have a chance to get away unless there are a few guards, which in that case you would be ported to jail.

So, any red or grey criminal acts would be targets of guards. If you attacked a guard you would have more of a penalty.

There would be a time period. So, if you killed 10 people and you were not arrested for 10 days, then it would drop to 9 counts and then 9 days, it would drop to 8.

Players could pick up bounty hunting licenses and use them on a red or grey, causing a mage guard to appear, which would then begin to try and take the red or criminal to 10 hitpoints, where they would then become unconcous and ported to jail. The bounty hunter could also attack as well as other players, possibly causing the criminal to die but this would automatically remove one count, so that upon capture, their jail times would be less.

The bounty hunter would have a list placed so that everyone could see. Maybe on a board somewhere of all the criminals they have apprehended or killed. Maybe the top 5 bounty hunters only.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Logging in to UO only to do nothing but stand and burn hours upon hours in ghost form without being able to interact or do much of anything else can be considered a form of torture in my opinion. LOL

But that's just it...no one actually logged into UO and "stared at the wall"...they went to work, they went to school, they went to sleep...they played other games, they played on other accounts, they watched television...etc.

If someone really had to actually be present to get rid of murder counts, then you would be right...but they never did.

and I hope that we are all given the opportunity to share that experience again.

It won't ever happen again...not on EA's shards. You might get some open PvP test shard, or Siege, but you won't get anything like what old UO was...not even with a classic shard. It took me a while to really understand it, but the game I fell in love with 13 years ago is gone...and it is never coming back. Sadly, it's no one's fault...it can't come back, because there will always be alternatives for people that do not wish to be "victims" (if you can call anyone that knowingly joined an open PvP game a victim). You might get something that looks like old UO, maybe even feels a bit like old UO, but it won't be old UO...too many things have changed.

 

[copycon]

But that's just it...no one actually logged into UO and "stared at the wall"...they went to work, they went to school, they went to sleep...they played other games, they played on other accounts, they watched television...etc.

If someone really had to actually be present to get rid of murder counts, then you would be right...but they never did.

I can see why some would feel this way, but when I wanted to play UO and I couldn't, I felt left out. It was not simply a matter of logging on to a different character or doing something else because I wanted to play UO and all characters served a very specific purpose. Also, building a character took days or weeks of time and effort in many cases, so characters were not nearly as expendable as today. Kill counts back then stacked up very quickly, so it wasn't always feasible to burn them off due to the amount of time required to do so, and losing a character to stat loss back then was significant. But, again, I did not play a murderer character with any consistency, so I was not affected nearly as much by the penalties that applied.

I do know that I killed 2 renowned murderers on the shard that I played on primarily, and it felt great and was exciting at the time because I knew what it meant. I have retained that memory for a reason, and it is very satisfying.

It won't ever happen again...not on EA's shards. You might get some open PvP test shard, or Siege, but you won't get anything like what old UO was...not even with a classic shard. It took me a while to really understand it, but the game I fell in love with 13 years ago is gone...and it is never coming back. Sadly, it's no one's fault...it can't come back, because there will always be alternatives for people that do not wish to be "victims" (if you can call anyone that knowingly joined an open PvP game a victim). You might get something that looks like old UO, maybe even feels a bit like old UO, but it won't be old UO...too many things have changed.

This is clearly a matter of opinion. A "Classic" shard could certainly give me what I want, but may not necessarily give others what they want. The fact is that there is no such thing at this moment available from EA, so I will continue to wait to see what happens. If the wait ends in vein, then I will have learned my lesson and I will kindly bow out.

The date has been set and the time clock is ticking...

 

[Old Man of UO]

Another worthy tread derailed by the Classic Shard "I'm gonna quite if we don't get a Classic Shard" and "UO hasn't been UO since AOS" fanboiys and fangirlz.

 

[Babble]

I just wish EA would give uo on the idea that all events on all shards have to end the same way ....

Intelligent programming and a bit of organisation could overcome that dilemma