I'm pro-Fel but I hate PKs.

[D'Amavir]

Just as a to be curious I'd love to see the result of a thread on an event arc that would possibly remove the Felucca Rule set from Prodo Shards...Granted this is hypothetical...but I bet we'd hear a lot of whining and finger pointing....Which after all is what is accused when Trammies come on here wanting changes so they don't have to be exposed to them for PS and other things...

The difference is, Fel players don't come here whining to have Trammel rules removed from the game. They don't come here whining to have Trammel rules added to Fel. They just want Fel to be Fel. That's it.

Trammel players have all but one of the facets set up with their chosen ruleset. They have several ways of getting powerscrolls without having to go to Fel. That's a fact. But, trammel players aren't happy with that. They won't ever be happy till EVERYTHING is their way and no other way. Again, that's a fact. Fel players and people that support having two separate facets for differing playstyles to choose from don't want things taken from Trammel players. Trammel players want things taken from Fel players.

 

[Prince Caspian]

The funny thing is, most pks (and people that aren't pk's but support playstyles other than their own like myself) already understand that. They don't come to these boards asking for Trammel players like you to come to Fel. They don't try to trick people into coming to Fel so they can pk them.

Um, I don't just play Trammel. I play Felucca just as much.

Funny you should talk about "tricking" players to come to Felucca. A while back, I wrote a lengthy post exuding the merits of Felucca, and how it does offer some exciting fun, and for everyone to just set aside the hard feelings and prejudices of PKs (as you keep pointing out, I hate PKs across the board... yes, that's pretty much true) and come give it a shot again.

I know that's probably hard for you to believe. I can dig through the forums and find the post... but I don't think even linking it would make a diff in this discussion... but anyhoo...

To be honest, what happened next really disgusted me. A bunch of people on the forum (including people I considered to be friends) instantly attacked me on all sides, saying that I was trying to "trick" them into coming to Felucca so I could feed my PK cronies. I was REALLY offended by the people who knew me posting that. It just shows the friggin irritating prejudice people have against Felucca.

Anyone who has read my posts over the years (as Alex De Large before Prince Caspian as well) knows I have ALWAYS been vehemently anti-PK. Frankly because of the way I was treated BY PKs when I was learning the game... and yes, that's probably never gonna change.

But you see, this shows the other side of my disgust, in my original post. My hatred for PKs is old news. What I also hate is this idea that ANYONE, for ANY FRICKIN REASON, suggested MAYBE you should try Felucca, is a gaddamn PK ready to prey on them.

WHAT, pray tell, WAS my motive? Well, the bottom line is, Factions could be a wonderful system. A great, exciting arena system that lets you thrill to PvP without risking anything you've worked for in the long run. But as I said in another post, the factions are so friggin dead (on Sonoma at least) because not enough people are playing them (or nobody wants to dare to sign up for the losing teams).

Of course, I guess this is all a pie in the sky until they fix that cheating issue, which EA doesnt seem to care at all about. But as someone so perfectly summed it up, you have a choice: cheat with them or lose every time. That's no fun either.

Anyhow, I'm not really interested in pursuing this much further, D'Amavir. But I think it's hilarious that you, of all things, are accusing me of being the thing that I was originally pancakes about.... a Trammie who is convinced that anyone trying to persuade me to come to Fel is just out to doublecross me. Good Lord.

 

[Nexus]

The difference is, Fel players don't come here whining to have Trammel rules removed from the game. They don't come here whining to have Trammel rules added to Fel. They just want Fel to be Fel. That's it.

Trammel players have all but one of the facets set up with their chosen ruleset. They have several ways of getting powerscrolls without having to go to Fel. That's a fact. But, trammel players aren't happy with that. They won't ever be happy till EVERYTHING is their way and no other way. Again, that's a fact. Fel players and people that support having two separate facets for differing playstyles to choose from don't want things taken from Trammel players. Trammel players want things taken from Fel players.

Not True they come here whining for the devs to get more players in to Fel, it's been done countless times. The PvMers don't try to force their playstyle on the PvPer's yet the PvP community asks for things to draw players to Fel. Knowing full well that those that do fall to lures from the devs will be unprepared and easy pickings for them.

I personally don't agree with Reds being tied to one facet, if they want to go to Trammel or Malas or Tokuno I'm fine with it, just they would have to play with the rules of that facet...I'm fine with players going to Fel being stuck with the rules of that facet. What I'm not fine with is the lack of anything being done to combat the rampant cheating that goes on in a large portion of the PvP community, and the PvM and Crafting Communities. I'm not happy that the devs can't seem to get it through their skulls that Fel and Trammel can't co-exist without conflict and abrasive comments being shouted back and forth and tossing out Lures to hand the PK community easy pickin's isn't the way to correct this.

It all comes down to one simple thing...You can't force a PvPer to PvM, but you can Force a PvMer to PvP. It's that simple I can't make you go Kill Ettins but in Fel you can make me fight you. Forced Play Styles like Forced Grouping is something I am not and won't ever be a fan of.

 

[D'Amavir]

Um, I don't just play Trammel. I play Felucca just as much.

Funny you should talk about "tricking" players to come to Felucca. A while back, I wrote a lengthy post exuding the merits of Felucca, and how it does offer some exciting fun, and for everyone to just set aside the hard feelings and prejudices of PKs (as you keep pointing out, I hate PKs across the board... yes, that's pretty much true) and come give it a shot again.

I know that's probably hard for you to believe. I can dig through the forums and find the post... but I don't think even linking it would make a diff in this discussion... but anyhoo...

To be honest, what happened next really disgusted me. A bunch of people on the forum (including people I considered to be friends) instantly attacked me on all sides, saying that I was trying to "trick" them into coming to Felucca so I could feed my PK cronies. I was REALLY offended by the people who knew me posting that. It just shows the friggin irritating prejudice people have against Felucca.

Anyone who has read my posts over the years (as Alex De Large before Prince Caspian as well) knows I have ALWAYS been vehemently anti-PK. Frankly because of the way I was treated BY PKs when I was learning the game... and yes, that's probably never gonna change.

But you see, this shows the other side of my disgust, in my original post. My hatred for PKs is old news. What I also hate is this idea that ANYONE, for ANY FRICKIN REASON, suggested MAYBE you should try Felucca, is a gaddamn PK ready to prey on them.

WHAT, pray tell, WAS my motive? Well, the bottom line is, Factions could be a wonderful system. A great, exciting arena system that lets you thrill to PvP without risking anything you've worked for in the long run. But as I said in another post, the factions are so friggin dead (on Sonoma at least) because not enough people are playing them (or nobody wants to dare to sign up for the losing teams).

Of course, I guess this is all a pie in the sky until they fix that cheating issue, which EA doesnt seem to care at all about. But as someone so perfectly summed it up, you have a choice: cheat with them or lose every time. That's no fun either.

Anyhow, I'm not really interested in pursuing this much further, D'Amavir. But I think it's hilarious that you, of all things, are accusing me of being the thing that I was originally pancakes about.... a Trammie who is convinced that anyone trying to persuade me to come to Fel is just out to doublecross me. Good Lord.

Actually, I said you hated pk's. Regardless of if they are fair playing pk's or cheating pks. Mature pk's or immature pk's. You admitted the same thing just now. So, not sure what you are trying to deny since you already admitted to being exactly what I said you were. A pure pk hater that will never be happy unless all pk's are removed from the game. That's how a lot of people are on this board.

 

[XavierArcanus]

Well I'm pro-life, but anti-zombie.

 

[D'Amavir]

Not True they come here whining for the devs to get more players in to Fel, it's been done countless times. The PvMers don't try to force their playstyle on the PvPer's yet the PvP community asks for things to draw players to Fel. Knowing full well that those that do fall to lures from the devs will be unprepared and easy pickings for them.

I personally don't agree with Reds being tied to one facet, if they want to go to Trammel or Malas or Tokuno I'm fine with it, just they would have to play with the rules of that facet...I'm fine with players going to Fel being stuck with the rules of that facet. What I'm not fine with is the lack of anything being done to combat the rampant cheating that goes on in a large portion of the PvP community, and the PvM and Crafting Communities. I'm not happy that the devs can't seem to get it through their skulls that Fel and Trammel can't co-exist without conflict and abrasive comments being shouted back and forth and tossing out Lures to hand the PK community easy pickin's isn't the way to correct this.

It all comes down to one simple thing...You can't force a PvPer to PvM, but you can Force a PvMer to PvP. It's that simple I can't make you go Kill Ettins but in Fel you can make me fight you. Forced Play Styles like Forced Grouping is something I am not and won't ever be a fan of.

You can't force a pvm'er to pvp. I am not a pvp'er. I haven't pvp'd since before the whole samurai expansion came out. That's been a pretty long time and no one has been able to make me pvp in all that time. I have several scrolled out characters. Four houses. A lot of deco items and a dwindling amount of gold. But, no pvp.

If you don't want to pvp you have a very simple tool that the developers provided to ensure that you don't have to pvp. Use it. I do. 'Forced' is definitely not something that applies to having to pvp in UO. Not at all.

 

[D'Amavir]

Well I'm pro-life, but anti-zombie.

Loser. Zombies are people too. Granted, they are dead, brain eating people. But people nonetheless.

 

[Prince Caspian]

Oh, and as an afterthought:

Something else that annoys me is the pompous presumption that "Trammies" are lesser players than the almighty PvP Gods.

What doesn't ever seem to even cross such folks mind is.... maybe, maybe... just perhaps........ people don't WANT to play PvP. It's not necessarily a lack of aptitude, perhaps they just don't enjoy it.

But nah. They're Trammies. Limpwristed little tea-sippin' care bears who just can't cut the mustard.

 

[D'Amavir]

Oh, and as an afterthought:

Something else that annoys me is the pompous presumption that "Trammies" are lesser players than the almighty PvP Gods.

What doesn't ever seem to even cross such folks mind is.... maybe, maybe... just perhaps........ people don't WANT to play PvP. It's not necessarily a lack of aptitude, perhaps they just don't enjoy it.

But nah. They're Trammies. Limpwristed little tea-sippin' care bears who just can't cut the mustard.

As a 100% Trammie I have to say I don't think of myself as a care bear at all. But, on that same note, 'Trammies' pop off in every conversation claiming that EVERY Fel player is a pvper, or a pk, or a punk kid, or a cheater or a hacker. Not true. Wait....But nah, They're Fellies. Cheat using, bug exploiting, trash talking 12 year olds that have no social skills.

There ya go, we are pretty even now.

 

[Prince Caspian]

A pure pk hater that will never be happy unless all pk's are removed from the game. That's how a lot of people are on this board.

Well, again, PKs are nonentities now. Even if you get PKed, who cares, you don't lose anything.

I suppose this is a good point... what do I want? I dunno. Just an old player hanging onto a hated foe that's gone now, I suppose. I don't necessarily want them gone.

Originally, what got my back up is not for some proposed fix, just all the posts I see from the dimwits who claim that the Dread Lord Days of UO were a blast and didn't drive away players.

 

[D'Amavir]

Well, again, PKs are nonentities now. Even if you get PKed, who cares, you don't lose anything.

I suppose this is a good point... what do I want? I dunno. Just an old player hanging onto a hated foe that's gone now, I suppose. I don't necessarily want them gone.

Originally, what got my back up is not for some proposed fix, just all the posts I see from the dimwits who claim that the Dread Lord Days of UO were a blast and didn't drive away players.

I am sure some pk's did drive some players away. Sure. But, as a long time player (97) I remember a lot of fun times involving pk's. The anti pk's gathering up in town to hunt them down. The rush of being able to escape an attack by one of the infamous pk's of the time. The thrill of being able to turn the tables on an attacker and send them running for THEIR lives instead of me running for mine.

I came into the game understanding what it was about. As such, I didn't complain each and every time I got pk'd or attacked by one. I knew that that was the game I signed on for. Just like when I play CoD I don't complain about getting sniped. Or shotgunned. Or pistol whipped. Its what I am there for. Win or lose its what I signed up for.

I don't pvp anymore. Haven't really since AoS. None at all since before SE. Too item based for me and not enough about skill. I hold out hope that sooner or later we will get a dev team that understands the concept of skill based combat. Its definitely not this group. But that's not to say that the next group won't.

 

[5% Luck]

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Dark fall isnt even in beta!

 

[Hunter Moon]

I don't think there is much they can do to draw more people to Fel. I play in Fel quite a bit and am in a large guild there and (I am sorry but this is what I see daily) I come across the nasty mouthed trash talking scripters in mass amounts (arguing the point that many, read NOT all, people script healing, field hacks, stump hacks, speeder, auto targeting and what not is a waste of point at this time).

It is the combination of this cheating and over the top trash talking that makes me rethink dealing with them time and time again. I REFUSE to script and have had people tell me oh everyone does it so you can't compete if you don't. This might be true, but I will not let someone else's bad behavior dictate my actions. If I die over and over, so be it. Their moronic claim that they are gods and we all suck because they can kill us by cheating is as lame as anyone in any game who wins by cheating and then thinks they are a good player.

The only way I can see Fel gaining back any of its former popularity would be them finally fixing all of the scripting and exploiting that makes PvPing impossible against such players unless you have huge numbers and the players themselves applying a social consciousness to their speech and behavior. I don't see either of these things happening. I was around when Fel was in its hay day and I remember often fighting reds and then after wards the winner would rez the loser and tell them good fight. There was risk, but there was also honor. I haven't seen such behavior in over seven years if not more.

As for the controlling of player's language by GMs. That is just a system waiting to be abused. As it is already the R word will get you instantly banned no matter what context you use it in and other much more insulting terms are let fly by. People would be calling non-stop on every single word out of the mouth of players they don't like first off and further, who is to deem what is not appropriate and how do they equally enforce said rules. Is it right for one GM to find a word actionable and another to say that isn't something illegal? I for one think the R word insta ban is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. I say this as a female and find it insulting that anyone would think a woman is so weak and ignorant as to find the mere mention of the R word in a GAME terrorizing. You can probably find a nut who lives within a mile radius of you who would kill/R you with no provocation so why all the over reaction about some random game player with no idea where you live or who you are tracking down your info (unless you give it to them and then your just plain insane yourself) and making the trip to mess with you in rl. Get a grip people!

Hunter Moon [HOT] Atlantic

 

[trammelite]

i am a trammie *points to nick* and probably will be for the rest of the uo days because killing players doesnt bring me joy. it just makes me sad. even when defending.

but, i enjoy playing fel. believe it or not, i love the ruleset and the challange, until ....
you know, the occasional red comes and attacks you without reason nor communication. just for being a blue you have to die. "go back to trammie-land, where you belong" is the softest comment you receive. *shakeshead*
so, what is the choice ? guess what ? you need to behave like the majority of the reds seem to do: call friends, rezkill, loot dry, all that stuff.

how i hate it. how i hate myself sometimes doing exactly this just for revenge or even worse, for PS and such.

i should go find another game that doesn't depress me.

 

[FishinFool]

As the system stands today, everyone should be grey in felucca. If attacked, unprovoked, *in* a guard zone you should be able to call the guards if you so choose.

Color is irrelevent now, since they did away with stat-loss for reds they did away with the best, controlling factor of true anti-social behavior in the game.

Felucca is nothing more than a prison colony at this point. Sometimes I do miss having to watch over my shoulder constantly, but never enough to go back.

Waste of time.

 

[Petrify]

but, i enjoy playing fel. believe it or not, i love the ruleset and the challange, until ....
you know, the occasional red comes and attacks you without reason nor communication.

I don't understand how you can say you "LOVE" the ruleset... yet you hate the PvP. The fact that a red can attack you without reason nor communication is the ruleset. What do you love about felluca if you don't like the pvp? The double resources? The trees?

 

[Clog|Mordain]

I don't understand how you can say you "LOVE" the ruleset... yet you hate the PvP. The fact that a red can attack you without reason nor communication is the ruleset. What do you love about felluca if you don't like the pvp? The double resources? The trees?

Ya beat me to it Pet..

 

[5% Luck]

Im not a pvpr but i do also love the felucian rule set. Its not just the rules or the landscape or the players its the feeling i get. Like excitement on a blank screen. even recalling around i find myself tip top. I dont mean to say i dont defend myself i do(and occasionally kill an angered red with my tamer for kicks) its that my chars are suited and skilled for pvm. But still theres this kool idea of danger and excitement you cant find IN ANY OTHER PART OF THE GAME!

If i was a weasel id hide in tram but... I Love It

 

[Draxous]

Edit -- also, as an afterthought. This may blow the minds of folks around here.... but in 10 years of playing UO, I never killed a blue name that didn't attack me first. Not once. A Fel player who never PKed.... wow.....

You know... back in the day when I used to flag grey to have people attack me... I thought the same way.

Now it's pointless cause, being red isn't the deal it was before.

Oops.

At least now I'm pking by killing reds, greys and oranges.


Hmm... is it the same thing?

I did like it better when I had the choice tho... =P

 

[trammelite]

@Petrify

for example no pushthrough - having to keep your back free instead of simply running through a blocking mob.
or champ spawns in dungeons.

if the "fel ruleset" stands for PvP only, than i was wrong.

 

[Petrify]

@Petrify

for example no pushthrough - having to keep your back free instead of simply running through a blocking mob.
or champ spawns in dungeons.

Wow. If thats what makes you love "fel" then I'm honestly stunned.

 

[Redxpanda]

There are some great facts in here and i am sure the devs would love to change this. Unfortunately, these players make up too much of the player base with their multi accounts and ghost cams. Making any changes would cause them to quit and put the future of this game in doubt. The devs need to increase the amount of good quality players before they can start to attack that problem.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

One of the things that usually makes me pop my cork is when people start spewing this claptrap of how much bloody FUN the Dread Lord Days were for all involved because of the PK hijinx.

You are right, the days before the splitting of the world were anything but perfect. I remember certain anti-social PK tactics and bug abuses from 9 years ago. A popular way to kill innocents was to place a trapped chest somewhere near a road (yes, people were travelling on foot these days; and yes, people were actually looking into those chests). The blast of the explosion would kill the best armored fighter instantly. The killer could come out of his hiding and loot the victim dry.

However, splitting the world into Trammel and Felucca just wasn't the right solution to the problem, to my opinion. They should have found ways to abolish bug abuse, cheating and rule breaking, and maybe make life for PKs a little harder, instead of creating a Disney-World without PKs.

The splitting of the world destroyed the community and made a lot of red players quit. It made people care more for themselves instead of caring for the community. Initiatives like PK hunts, guarding popular mining places and protecting the weak from the evil, died and never returned. As did the thrill of venturing out into the wilderness. In the Early Days, the risk of being PKed was always there, but it was not very high, as it was distributed on many many shoulders. You knew the places you had to be careful at, and you planned your adventures accordingly.

As for the controlling of player's language by GMs. That is just a system waiting to be abused.

Bad language cannot really be prevented, but that isn't my main problem. There are spam filters in the client. It is only a problem, because the "normal" people often decide to stay out of Felucca, and thus bad behavior seems to be concentrated in these lands.

 

[Yalp]

With all respect and deference to those who played the game before the split, I have to say... move on to a different line of reasoning. It's a different world now. It didn't just happen, it's "ancient history" in the MMORPG genre . Most people (no facts to back it up just an opinion based on observation) who play now never experienced that world, never experienced the how it was/should have been/ended up being.

What we have now, today, in game is what needs to be addressed. There are very real and legitimate reasons why fel is experiencing its fade. It has nothing to do with a lack of content or events. It has everything to do with rampant cheating, hacking, and game mechanics that make it NOT FUN to the majority of players. These are things that need addressed if the dev's want to make fel a vibrant population again. To deny that is to ensure the situation will never change and fel will eventually fade away completely.

 

[D'Amavir]

With all respect and deference to those who played the game before the split, I have to say... move on to a different line of reasoning. It's a different world now. It didn't just happen, it's "ancient history" in the MMORPG genre . Most people (no facts to back it up just an opinion based on observation) who play now never experienced that world, never experienced the how it was/should have been/ended up being.

There were many many people on boards like this prior to the mention of 'trammel' that told those that complained about how things were that to 'give it up, this game is the way it is and its not going to change. Learn to deal with it'. And what happened? Trammel came out and the game changed forever. The point? Things can and do change. Just because the game is the way it is now, doesn't mean that people shouldn't believe that things could change drastically again in the future.

Do I think that there will be a dev team that removes Trammel and takes UO back to pre UOR days? No, not at all. But, that is not to say that the next dev team that comes around (and yes, there will be a new dev team, there always is. Thank goodness) won't make some major changes to how things work.

What we have now, today, in game is what needs to be addressed. There are very real and legitimate reasons why fel is experiencing its fade. It has nothing to do with a lack of content or events. It has everything to do with rampant cheating, hacking, and game mechanics that make it NOT FUN to the majority of players. These are things that need addressed if the dev's want to make fel a vibrant population again. To deny that is to ensure the situation will never change and fel will eventually fade away completely.

I think its a mix of both. I am not denying that cheating and hacking in pvp is an issue in Fel. Of course it is. But, there is also an issue of pvp itself not being as enjoyable as it used to be for a lot of people. Some people are just die hard anti pvp types. They won't like fighting other players no matter how it works. That's a given. But there are quite a lot of people, myself included, that used to love pvp (not pk'ing, not Yew Gate fighting and not factions but normal pvp) that can't stand it now because of the changes that this dev team and others have made to it. Item based vs skill based, powerscrolled vs 7X or many other different things have changed what pvp is in UO.

Cheats and hacks definitely need to addressed. But that is just one side of the Fel issue. Fix all sides of it and you might see Fel being more alive. And more us old timers remember it as being.

Was it perfect before UOR? Heck no. There was scum that used any trick in the book for an advantage. But, this age of UO has only encouraged that scum to multiply, in Fel and in Trammel. Whereas they need to find a way for the scum to be lessened and the quality players to be increased.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

That's a dichotomy that people just can't seem to process.

If you are for Felucca, you are apparently automatically foul-mouthed, cruel, rude, antisocial jagoff who wants to gank, grief and torment other players, right?

Why can people not believe that is not the case?

Felucca adds elements unique from Trammel. Yes, PKs are a danger, and I myself bear scars from too many antisocial idiots rejoicing in the glee of ruining someone else's night by ganking them under the euphamism of "PvP."

I really am wondering WHY people can't seem to understand it just might be possible I enjoy Felucca but I despise everything PKs do and stand for.

Edit -- also, as an afterthought. This may blow the minds of folks around here.... but in 10 years of playing UO, I never killed a blue name that didn't attack me first. Not once. A Fel player who never PKed.... wow.....

I'm hearing you loud and clear bud.

I'm pro-Tram but I hate pvm, bank-sitting, and vendoring in peace.

I guess we just both like our respective facets for the leaves(or lack of)on the trees in the pixels of our landscapes.

I hope that my statement clearly makes me seem like I am open-minded and able to intelligently discuss all aspects/facets of the game(even if I clearly only have a clue about one of them)

Huh??

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

The point that is eluding your grasp is PKs shouldnt be off the hook for all the damage they did to this game just because they currently are a nonentity.

And my pointless post for the day was the edmontosaurus post (which they moved to SnR)

"Whine." Yeah. That word gets used around here a lot. If anyone is vocal about any topic you happen not to agree with, it's "whining." News flash: "whining" is why the forum is here. Customer feedback is "whining."

Or maybe the Ultima Online developers read this forum just because we are just so darn entertaining.....?

Of course the purpose of this board is for whining. No one is denying that. And yes, it seems like anyone that doesn't agree with you is considered whining while anything you say is supposed to be 'helpful discussion'.

As for 'pks being responsible for blah blah blah'. That's not really true. Pk's didn't cause the creation of Trammel alone. Pk's AND people that joined a game that allowed pk'ing then turned around and whined about the fact that pk'ing was allowed in a game that allowed pk'ing caused the creation of Trammel.

As you said, you are a pro-Fel player but you hate pk's. That last part is the bottom line. Nothing will ever change that feeling for you. No amount of improvements to pvp, no amount of cheat fixes, no amount of hack fixes and no amount of alternative locations for you to spend 100% of you game time will change that fact that you hate pks. Hate. Pks. Not hate cheaters. Not hate dupers. Not hate speedhackers. Not hate immature people talking smack. You hate pks.

As I said already, that is the issue in itself. Trammel is pk free. 100% so. And yet pk haters still aren't happy. Malas is 100% pk free. And its not even available with a Fel ruleset. And yet pk haters still aren't happy. Ilshenar is 100% pk free. And yet pk haters still aren't happy. Nothing will make them happy except the complete removal of ALL pks from the game. No powerscrolls in Trammel. No statscrolls in Trammel. No new lands with Trammel only rulesets. No insurance. No blessed deeds for everything you own. No instant rez with all your stuff still on you with no durability loss and a check for 1,000,000,000,000 gold anytime a pk kills you popping in your bank. Nothing will ever change the irrational hatred that certain types have for pks.

The funny thing is, most pks (and people that aren't pk's but support playstyles other than their own like myself) already understand that. They don't come to these boards asking for Trammel players like you to come to Fel. They don't try to trick people into coming to Fel so they can pk them. They don't toss out lures like the dev team trying to coerce people over to Fel. They get it and they are ok with it. But, certain types aren't happy with the fact that they have the majority of the lands set up for their playstyle. As long as one tiny little area allows pk'ing, they will whine till the cows come home about wanting to be able to go to that one tiny little area without being pk'd. All other talk is just a cover up for the simple fact that certain types just hate pk's.

Damn!!

You hit the nail PERFECTLY on the head.

So many players have no concept of the games past, present or future yet they have this ridiculous hatred of so-called pks. They can wander around the entire Uo landscape in Trammel/Ilsh/Malas totally pk free to do exactly what they please yet still harbor such hatred. Its beyond childish and nonsensical.

I wish I could explain it but bottom line is that you just have to seriously feel sorry for these kids

 

[Nexus]

You can't force a pvm'er to pvp. I am not a pvp'er. I haven't pvp'd since before the whole samurai expansion came out. That's been a pretty long time and no one has been able to make me pvp in all that time. I have several scrolled out characters. Four houses. A lot of deco items and a dwindling amount of gold. But, no pvp.

If you don't want to pvp you have a very simple tool that the developers provided to ensure that you don't have to pvp. Use it. I do. 'Forced' is definitely not something that applies to having to pvp in UO. Not at all.

Ok this a hypothetical situation, say on a moderately populated shard, all the spawn guilds and zerg guilds decided to cut off the supply of scrolls flowing into Trammel. Players that aren't typically in Felucca would have to go there to continue and finish development of their characters.. PvPers could Force PvP on those players who have no desire and no wish to engage in PvP. Take the same group of zerg guild fan boys and toss them in Trammel, they don't have to PvP they can sit at a bank and do nothing or talk smack or wander around but they don't have to PvM. The Ruleset of the Felucca facet dictates that PvP can be forced on someone unwillingly, the opposite isn't true. Like I said this is hypothetical, and not likely. Now though we've got another wrench tossed in the gears, the best materials for building PvM and PvP suits is going to only be available through PvP. These are going to allow Faction members to kick up the standard for whats considered PvP quality suits. Some of the pieces are small boosts others will have a large effect on overall suit building.

 

[D'Amavir]

Ok this a hypothetical situation, say on a moderately populated shard, all the spawn guilds and zerg guilds decided to cut off the supply of scrolls flowing into Trammel. Players that aren't typically in Felucca would have to go there to continue and finish development of their characters.. PvPers could Force PvP on those players who have no desire and no wish to engage in PvP. Take the same group of zerg guild fan boys and toss them in Trammel, they don't have to PvP they can sit at a bank and do nothing or talk smack or wander around but they don't have to PvM. The Ruleset of the Felucca facet dictates that PvP can be forced on someone unwillingly, the opposite isn't true. Like I said this is hypothetical, and not likely. Now though we've got another wrench tossed in the gears, the best materials for building PvM and PvP suits is going to only be available through PvP. These are going to allow Faction members to kick up the standard for whats considered PvP quality suits. Some of the pieces are small boosts others will have a large effect on overall suit building.

No one is forced to pvp, ever. If they are, have someone force me to pvp. It hasn't happened in several years. When did SE come out? That was the last time I pvp'd.

As for your silly scenario (can I say silly or will that get me yet another *censored* for mentioning the word *censored*?), a group of 7x GM characters can take on any mob in the game. They don't have to have powerscrolls. Sure, they might not be able to solo the biggest baddest mob in the game. MAYBE. But they aren't forced into having any scrolls at all to pvm. So, no forced pvp there at all.

Same goes for the new (and ridiculous, but since EA is trying to kill pvp in UO altogether so they can focus on pvm development) faction items. A group of players can take on any mob in the game without them. So, no one is 'forced' to pvp to get them.

As for the 'people in Fel are forced to pvp and people in trammel aren't forced to pvm'. I have two things to say to that. First, I can be standing around the bank minding my own business in Trammel and that evil mongbat can walk up to me and attack me. Oh my, I was just forced into pvm and now I will have nightmares about it for the rest of my days. Woe is me! Second, I can go to Fel, join a faction, go to some hidden away spot in Fel (oh I don't know where, try just about anywhere in Fel for example) and kill a dummy alt in a rival faction and rank up high enough to get the new items. I guess thats pvp even though both p's are the same p since its just an alt you are whacking on. But, you get the point.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

To call me anti-social just because I prefer to PvP and PK is a very ignorant statement. I can say almost certainly I am probably the most socially active person on these boards. If you want proof, PM me for my myspace lol.

Based on my experience from the few people I have met from this game, the PK/PvP'ers are typically the more "normal" ones. The people I've met who play the game to collect leet items and shiny new things are generally socially inept people who play this game to escape reality.

 

[Ancient Sosarian]

The difference is, Fel players don't come here whining to have Trammel rules removed from the game. They don't come here whining to have Trammel rules added to Fel. They just want Fel to be Fel. That's it.

OMGosh! Is Felucca no longer Felucca??? If Felucca isn't Felucca, what is it?

Look, the VAST majority of players NEVER set foot into Felucca. Many of those who do, regret having done so, rue that moment, and never return.

Feluccans have the Felucca they and their forebears created and deserve. One devoid of ample prey. That is what makes most "Feluccans," miserable...a lack of ample soft, easy, wimpy, prey.

Are there any mature, honorable, reasonable folks in Felucca? By all accounts and numerous accounts of personal experiences, not many. And spread over many shards and timezones, most never see such in Felucca.

Only Feluccans will ever be able to improve what goes on in Felucca.

Sadly, most of the immature, gank-crazed, worthless players in Felucca also have characters on all the other facets. Thankfully, on all the other facets while they may behave just as immature and boorishly, they can't directly attack or kill others...which drives most of them insane.

Despite all the perks the Dev Team provides in Felucca, it has a very small population, one made even smaller by dispersion over many shards. I expect one day those who ruin Felucca will give up and quit...or it will become an empty ghost facet...still a useful historical example of our failing human condition.

An SoS

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

The difference is, Fel players don't come here whining to have Trammel rules removed from the game. They don't come here whining to have Trammel rules added to Fel. They just want Fel to be Fel. That's it.

OMGosh! Is Felucca no longer Felucca??? If Felucca isn't Felucca, what is it?

Look, the VAST majority of players NEVER set foot into Felucca. Many of those who do, regret having done so, rue that moment, and never return.

Feluccans have the Felucca they and their forebears created and deserve. One devoid of ample prey. That is what makes most "Feluccans," miserable...a lack of ample soft, easy, wimpy, prey.

Are there any mature, honorable, reasonable folks in Felucca? By all accounts and numerous accounts of personal experiences, not many. And spread over many shards and timezones, most never see such in Felucca.

Only Feluccans will ever be able to improve what goes on in Felucca.

Sadly, most of the immature, gank-crazed, worthless players in Felucca also have characters on all the other facets. Thankfully, on all the other facets while they may behave just as immature and boorishly, they can't directly attack or kill others...which drives most of them insane.

Despite all the perks the Dev Team provides in Felucca, it has a very small population, one made even smaller by dispersion over many shards. I expect one day those who ruin Felucca will give up and quit...or it will become an empty ghost facet...still a useful historical example of our failing human condition.

An SoS

1) Felucca has a large population on all major shards. Come there once someday and maybe you will realize this. I am curious though why the issue of powerscrolls is constantly being brought up by non Felucca players. If Felucca is such a ghost town why arent people just wandering on over all day long to chain spawns for the scrolls? We all know that most spawns can be chained by less then 3 people with ease. Can't you find 2 other Trammies to help you? Is Tram now that desolate that this is so?

2) Most all Felucca players have no desire to see pure Trammies ever set foot in our lands so plz spare me the "That is what makes most "Feluccans," miserable...a lack of ample soft, easy, wimpy, prey" nonsense. Pure Trammies like yourself Ancient add absolutely nothing to the Fel/pvp scene so are quite unwanted. We play the game to test personal skill & nerve through pvp. Not to mindlessly pvm and banksit & complain to the Devs that we cant kill the highest level monster in 3 seconds solo.
You can whine all you like about being soft and easy and wimpy. You said it. I am only agreeing with you. You are tagging yourself son


3) In case you failed to notice it is pure Trammies like you who appear 'miserable' by endlessly ranting about a facet you dont play in.
When is the last time you saw a post from a Felucca player asking for company from non pvpers?
When is the last time you saw a post from a Felucca player complaining about what we dont have? You almsot never see these posts. About the only time you do though is when they are stated in rebuttal to other pure Trammies complaining about the few things that we do have in Felucca.

Bottom line is that we generally have all we need in Felucca to play how we like. We rarely ever ask/bother the Devs for new, shiny items. We simply just bother the Devs to fix broken mechanics that affect pvp.
Can players from other facets say the same? I think not. They generally are bothering the Devs for more items/dungeons/monsters/items/lockdowns(are u kidding me on this one)/items/dungeons/clothes/items,etc...

Peace

 

[laurlo]

uhm.. I have no problem wrapping my mind around that concept..

 

[D'Amavir]

OMGosh! Is Felucca no longer Felucca??? If Felucca isn't Felucca, what is it?

It is at risk of becoming Trammel Part Two. That's the problem. I play 100% of my time in Trammel. Why? Because I enjoy it. However, other players play all of their time in Fel. Why? Because they enjoy it. Why add more Trammel stuff to Fel and take what makes Fel Fel away from them? Trammel players have enough already. Trammel, Malas, Ilshenar, all following their ruleset. Give Fel players their types of things in their ruleset. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that concept.

Look, the VAST majority of players NEVER set foot into Felucca. Many of those who do, regret having done so, rue that moment, and never return.

Trammel, Malas, Ilshenar. No need to ever set foot in Fel. Good deal.

Feluccans have the Felucca they and their forebears created and deserve. One devoid of ample prey. That is what makes most "Feluccans," miserable...a lack of ample soft, easy, wimpy, prey.

Maybe that's how you see it. I don't see Fel players here asking for soft easy prey. I rarely see Fel players asking for anything except for the regular "Don't make Fel into Trammel II" which really isn't much to ask for.

Are there any mature, honorable, reasonable folks in Felucca? By all accounts and numerous accounts of personal experiences, not many. And spread over many shards and timezones, most never see such in Felucca.

Make up your mind. You admit that the VAST amount of players never step foot in Fel. So, how would those VAST amount of players know who is in Fel and who isn't? Short answer, they wouldn't. Longer answer, people like you spend so much time on boards like this tossing out horror stories about all the baddies in Fel that you have nightmares about and more people jump onboard and tell horror stories. Mass hysteria anyone? The facts are different from the fantasy that you spin. Even those players that DO know about Fel, at least KNEW about Fel, tell the same sad stories from 98 about that nasty red named character that touched them in their bad place and made them have their own nightmares for the last 10 years about it.

Only Feluccans will ever be able to improve what goes on in Felucca.

The developers can improve and damage Fel. Just like they can improve and damage Trammel, Malas and Ilshenar. Making it a clone of Trammel isn't improving it. Its just steering the game away from a place for multiple playstyles and towards just one. Bad move in my opinion.

Sadly, most of the immature, gank-crazed, worthless players in Felucca also have characters on all the other facets. Thankfully, on all the other facets while they may behave just as immature and boorishly, they can't directly attack or kill others...which drives most of them insane.

Funny thing in, and you won't understand this of course, the Fel players aren't the ones being driven insane. They don't have nightmares every night about that blue that they couldn't attack in Trammel. However, the Trammel players do, and always will, have nightmares about that mean old nasty Fel player that attacked them in Fel. I guess those same people wake up in cold sweats panting like little girls each night thinking about that sniper that picked them off in CoD. For shame, that immature, gank crazed sniper is EVIL! They should remove the ability to shoot other players in CoD! Now! Silly indeed.

Despite all the perks the Dev Team provides in Felucca, it has a very small population, one made even smaller by dispersion over many shards. I expect one day those who ruin Felucca will give up and quit...or it will become an empty ghost facet...still a useful historical example of our failing human condition.

An SoS

You should try playing UO once in a while. And you might try reading the boards a bit too. Heck, read any of the websites that report about player numbers and subscriptions and all. Each of those make mention of the fact, and often, that players in UO is very low compared to in other games of this age. Many many of the dungeons in Trammel are sparsely populated. Most of the towns in Trammel have zero player activity in them. Ilshenar is dead in most spots. Malas, outside of the bank sitters of Luna, has next to now activity.

That's like two people standing in the rain side by side. One person looks to the other and says "You must be a witch! You are getting wet!". Pot kettle black.

 

[D'Amavir]

Bottom line is that we generally have all we need in Felucca to play how we like. We rarely ever ask/bother the Devs for new, shiny items. We simply just bother the Devs to fix broken mechanics that affect pvp.
Can players from other facets say the same? I think not. They generally are bothering the Devs for more items/dungeons/monsters/items/lockdowns(are u kidding me on this one)/items/dungeons/clothes/items,etc...

Peace

The sad thing is that things like powerscrolls, double resources and such were added to Fel to get Trammel players there. Not to make Fel players happy. It was the constant whine of "Fel is empty" from non Fel players that caused those monstrosities to be created. Now, when Fel players control something in Fel (shocking concept I know) those same players whine about it to the devs begging for the same items to be brought to Trammel. Will that help? No, of course not. Because those same people will be back to whining about Fel the next day for the simple fact that its something they don't like. Forget the fact that they already have the exact same lands of their own that they can use. Forget the fact that they have two other large facets with their own ruleset that they can use.

I assure you, if the devs changed 99% of Fel to a Trammel ruleset and left one 8X8 square of land with the Fel ruleset, those same people would whine about it and want it changed.

I can hear it now "I remember when I was a kid, I walked over that 8x8 square and this immature punk red jumped out and gave me diabetes!". And "That 8x8 square is full of nothing but immature punk kids that hack and cheat! I know this even though I have never really stepped foot on to it but I heard from a guy that heard from a guy that heard from a guy that made it up that it was so it must be true!"

 

[Splup]

Ahahaha, I gotta say this thread is loads of fun to read

I want to bring my personal opinion here also. I don't think feluccans are looking for easy pray. Yes, there's always some idiots by whom to judge whole felucca, but most of people are looking for good - even fight. What's more fun then 5vs5 battle roarming around? Nothing! Is it fun to kill someone who has no clue how to defence himself? No.

What I'v been thinking of, if I had time, I could start giving lessons about PvP to those who want to give it a try. Getting into PvP is really hard these days, since most of PvP players are veteran players who have been PvP:ing for Years. That's why people usually get so bad experience, they get killed so fast without even realising what just happened.

What I want to do, is to encourage every feluccan here to give a thought to what I just said. If you have PvP experience, why not try to share it with those who want to learn. Drop books at banks that xx.xx.200x we meet at felucca skara brae from where we go to my house to learn basics of PvP and PvP gear.

Tell them what PvP suit needs, teach some basics. Even better if you have a guild to which you can recruit them.

I don't know if people would be interested, maybe some atleast. You can't force people to PvP, but you can help people who are interested to get into it.

 

[Coyt]

Pre trammel days i remember when words about PKs raiding shame spread around the banks, and posses would gather to hunt them down,

i belive the risk vs reward was worth much more back in those days, you were free to kill anyone you like, take all he had, but you were banned from towns and being cought (death) was something to be worried about since stattloss would take its right if you rezed up

with the removal of stattloss reds took the place of guildwars O/C and factions, making these things out of fashion

i really thing there should be some punishment on murder (atleast ban them from towns)
it for sure could help out the upcomming facton updates

 

[Anakena]

I do have to agree here. I don't see how such a one-hit strike is possible against all 70s. Even Paroxy doesnt hit that hard.

I can imagine some ways to achieve that.

First to come to my mind would be to use opposite slayers (In despise people tend to use repond). One could combine that with RPD, low phys. resists and blood oath (Just a guess). Never tested this but it could insta kill unprepared people.

 

[Astrel]

Not all Dread Lords were bad, I met a couple who did not attack me, recognizing that I had fairly low skills at the time. Even the ones that did, usually with a heavy Xbox, most of the time were on their own. Later I started meeting two, but I really didn't mind if it was just one. My guild used to battle our PK neighbors every weekend. They could cast through walls and used speed hacks. We in turn used to fill their house with dire wolves and watch them die when they logged on. We also met PKs with one-hit-kill fireballs. Later came the gank squads, usually 8 against one. On Japanese shards every longtime red was using speedhacks, and one time even four of us found it impossible to kill one guy.

Fel is a good idea, but you have to have a client that people cannot hack and you have to have code that rules out ganking (possible for a programmer with a bit of imagination). Unfortunately, UO has suffered from programmers with less than adequate ability (like the initial skill gain system where it was almost impossible to GM unless you started real early). Fortunately, we do have guys like Leuro. Lets hope that there are more around like him.