I'm don't have anything against tamers, but...

[JC the Builder]

I attended the event on Atlantic last night and the screen was completely filled with Greater Dragons. It is even worse than I remember from years ago.

At one point they had monsters that would release tamed pets. Obviously this would not be acceptable in today's UO.

Instead what if a new monster ability was created to auto-stable pets? This seems like a pretty clean solution. It could be that the monster "magically teleports away beings of lesser intelect".

I know people are going to say it is unfair to exclude a play style. Well it is also unfair that all we see are Greater Dragons everywhere.

 

[Grazz't1970]

Haha. Here we go!!! In 3..2..1.....

 

[StealYourFace]

At least the dragons have blue bars. That way when I hit shift/control I can at least grab the bosses bar. I hate when there are 20 colossus and ev's on screen that all have red bars.

 

[JC the Builder]

I hate when there are 20 colossus and ev's on screen that all have red bars.

Well they should also have auto-dispel going too.

That would be more fair: no summons and no pets.

Of course this wouldn't be true for every event. But at a large one with 50+ players attending it should be strongly considered.

 

[Deep Ellum Dan]

as a non-tamer, having a screen full of GDs does make it difficult to even stand a chance at fighting and targeting. This is especially so when trying to target the ground.. i fail often because at the last minute, a GD moves to the spot im trying to target. I cannot say I am against GDs, just saying it makes things difficult for non-tamers and I do not want to be a tamer.

 

[Petra Fyde]

This is why the team created dragon turtles. Similar power level, but much smaller.
How about if the bosses had Baracoon's ability to morph them into something smaller? Baracoon turns dragons into rats. Area effect of course, so the whole crowd were converted.

 

[JC the Builder]

Look at all these Greater Dragons waiting patiently. They are so excited they couldn't even wait in the stable!

 

[MeTheGreat]

imo..

i would think that if the devs are going to change something; the simple solution would be to ensure that event mobs,
both invulnerable yellow and attackable red, are always on top. (i'm not sure if i'm saying this correctly, i mean to say that
they would always be visible regardless of what is occupying the same space) if that is even possible..

i feel that the issue with pulling dragons is that you force players into less and less usable templates. it is difficult to get looting
rights on many boss mobs without the use of a greater dragon or summons when using mage builds. if they were going to do
what the op suggests (no pets/no summons), there should also be an accompanying change to eliminate the use of armor
ignore for warriors.

 

[Merlin]

I attended the event on Atlantic last night and the screen was completely filled with Greater Dragons. It is even worse than I remember from years ago.

At one point they had monsters that would release tamed pets. Obviously this would not be acceptable in today's UO.

Instead what if a new monster ability was created to auto-stable pets? This seems like a pretty clean solution. It could be that the monster "magically teleports away beings of lesser intelect".

I know people are going to say it is unfair to exclude a play style. Well it is also unfair that all we see are Greater Dragons everywhere.

I agree 100%. Between dragons and gargs, most of the time you can't even see what's going on. Some type of attack to send them off screen would be rather funny and I bet would interrupt the multi-boxers.

 

[Ansel]

I attended the event on Atlantic last night and the screen was completely filled with Greater Dragons. It is even worse than I remember from years ago.

At one point they had monsters that would release tamed pets. Obviously this would not be acceptable in today's UO.

Instead what if a new monster ability was created to auto-stable pets? This seems like a pretty clean solution. It could be that the monster "magically teleports away beings of lesser intelect".

I know people are going to say it is unfair to exclude a play style. Well it is also unfair that all we see are Greater Dragons everywhere.

I agree, JC, which is why I stopped attending special events. The game simply cannot support them, though it does a much better job in Pinco's EC which allows you to zoom out and doesn't make you pull bars and such. The problem is not tamers per se. UO is frozen late in the last century and lacks the situational awareness tools and technology to support truly massively multiplayer game play.

Here, for example, is a different sort of special event: a guild Christmas party. Pinco's allows you arrange bars by type, set the limits of how many of a type can be displayed under any given category, and enables you to determine the method by which they are sorted. For this, I removed Attackable, Criminal, Enemy, Murderer, and Invulnerable types.

When you mouse over a bar on a list it shows you where the person/thing is with a prominent, color coded arrow. Here, for instance, is a friend hidden by the trees, hence the green arrow. You also get an overhead thumbnail telling you who/what it is, as well as your distance from it.

In fairness nearly every MMO since UO fails this test too. Which is why many refer to them as massively multi-instanced online games. But instancing makes sense in terrestrial games. The only reason you can have battles involving thousands of players in a single encounter in Eve Online is its setting in space.

Sadly the recent counter measure of the Dragon Turtle has not yet been widely adopted and is unlikely to be unless its animations are SIGNIFICANTLY improved.

 

[Longtooths]

I agree 100%. Between dragons and gargs, most of the time you can't even see what's going on. Some type of attack to send them off screen would be rather funny and I bet would interrupt the multi-boxers.

Most of the multiboxers I see are archer or throwers no?

 

[Silent Singer]

I get that turtles were an attempt to help resolve this, but let's be real, the effort to obtain eggs, raise them, and find one with good stats is way more than that needed to get a GD. In addition, I hate the graphic (and really the whole idea) of Dragon turtles. If instead they had used Silver Steeds, or Dire Spiders, or some other creature smaller than a GD, I'd be on board. But from a pure fantasy perspective, Dragon turtles don't tickle my fancy.

 

[StealYourFace]

I think the dragon turtle was a great idea that could have fixed this to some extent. The only problem is that it was implemented in a terrible way. They need a spot where dragon turtles spawn so we can find a good one . No one is gonna stop taking dragons to events if they can't get a turtle on par with what they already have.

 

[It Lives]

The Turtle Looks Horrible they should have used one of the some what better looking new Dinosaurs. The fact that its a boss drop is flat out dumb too.

 

[It Lives]

Hrrm Dragon? Turtle? *scratches head* not a tough choice if your the majority.

 

[Merus]

Limiting templates at em events is not the answer. Stabling someone pet and thereby nullifying the ability to attack just to make it easier for someone else to attack is lame. I do not use tamers at most events and find it just as frustrating as the OP when it is near impossible to pull a bar or see the mob, but a better solution is needed.

My vote would go to something that makes mob bars easier to identify and pull. The CC desperately needs a filter for displaying object handles. I believe this can be done in EC, though it may be a feature of Pincos rather than native to the client.

I would also advocate for a color change to summons belonging to players... Mobs are grey and red... Make summons purple so they are easily distinguished from mobs.

 

[Endrik]

Another option would be to ad a feature similar to "Circle of Transparency", except that it would apply to pets. It would be awesome to be able to toggle that feature on/off. Maybe give it three settings: Hide all player-owned pets, Hide all player-owned pets belonging to other people, and Hide all non-allied player-owned pets.

This would allow warriors to clear the screen of all pets. Tamers could clear the screen of all pets except for their own. And guild could clear the screen of all non-guild pets so they could still focus on healing their own guild/ally pets.

A fourth setting of Hide all allied pets could also be helpful in PvP or at champ spawns. My warrior does not need to see guild/ally pets, but I would still want to see enemy pets belonging to anybody raiding me.

I like Petra's idea of the area form change, but having a circle of transparency for pets would be very useful in a number of other non-EM event scenarios.

 

[Ansel]

The Turtle Looks Horrible they should have used one of the some what better looking new Dinosaurs. The fact that its a boss drop is flat out dumb too.

When folks were selling the eggs like mad I was buying them up on three shards. Heck one lot of 10 was sold at the Europa auction this past Wednesday. And after hatching 1.2 crap-tons of the little guys I have a least two at 4.2 or better....likely better because I use Pinco's lore rating. And they really train up quite well.

But my mistake was playing Pavarotti singing Nessun Dorma while training it....dang, the combat animation looks like these wee critters are singing along with Luciano! I'm not kidding....well....I am sort of but go ahead....see for yourself

​

Okay, that's silly but fact is when I bring my Greater Dragon along I feel as if I'm going into battle. And I avoid blobbing situations. Thus the GD remains my preference and I'm not being inconsiderate if I use it.

 

[JC the Builder]

If the pictures didn't make you believe how bad it is: check this out.

 

[JC the Builder]

Limiting templates at em events is not the answer. Stabling someone pet and thereby nullifying the ability to attack just to make it easier for someone else to attack is lame. I do not use tamers at most events and find it just as frustrating as the OP when it is near impossible to pull a bar or see the mob, but a better solution is needed.

My argument is not that the monster bars are too difficult to pull.

I am saying that all these pets take away from the events themselves. Having Greater Dragons all over your screen is not fun. Pleasing tamers while making every other player suffer is not right.

 

[Smoot]

This is why the team created dragon turtles. Similar power level, but much smaller.
How about if the bosses had Baracoon's ability to morph them into something smaller? Baracoon turns dragons into rats. Area effect of course, so the whole crowd were converted.

why would anyone use a dragon turtle when theyve spent years getting a much much better greater dragon? no one in his right mind would downgrade their pet for the sake of size.

plus you cant "farm" turtles like dragons. right now the turtle equivelant of a basic greater dragon (4.0 or better) costs hundreds of millions. thats just not something the majority of players would invest in when they already have a pet that functions exactly the same.

 

[Ansel]

If the pictures didn't make you believe how bad it is: check this out.

I believe everyone agrees with you, JC. It was bad....yep. Sure was. The CC can't handle events designed that way. Period. Doubt the EC can either.

So, the question is do EMs and event designers have the tools they'd need to create events with much less blobbing?

 

[DJAd]

I think the dragon turtle was a great idea that could have fixed this to some extent. The only problem is that it was implemented in a terrible way. They need a spot where dragon turtles spawn so we can find a good one . No one is gonna stop taking dragons to events if they can't get a turtle on par with what they already have.

This ^^

 

[Longtooths]

Need a button to erase EV's, Flying Gargoles, GD's, Rising Colossus, Nightmares, Earth Elementals, All Castable Elementals.....shoot just delete everyone but me and Event baddies.

 

[Angel of Sonoma]

i've been b1tching about these same issues at EM events for at least a year now. some of the EM's make supersized bosses which tower above the GD's & gargoyles and that really helps. i don't understand why the devs don't just create a new graphic for the dragons & WW's which is slightly taller than a horse. and at events turn off the annoying gargoyle flapping wings.

as for the dragon turtles...they are cute and all, but i've yet to see one with stats that match my greater dragon.

you can't exclude tamers from the events. if you do that, why not exclude gargoyles? and while we're at it, get rid of the casters and their EV's / RC's.

 

[Smoot]

In response to the particular event, EMs need to be conscious of the bosses surroundings.

That event boss was executed horribly. The EM should have known better. The "death pools" are a great addition to a boss, but not in a small room, and not if the boss doesnt "move around"

The same can be said for acid and fire. a boss that stays in one place with these effects makes any template other than tamer or ranged effectively worthless. And thats why we see so many tamers. because under the new system you can literally do nothing on your character, just let your dragon die, and get looting rights.

Its absolutely worthless discussing what makes for "good" gaming mechanics here on UO hall, people always complain if their current comfortable gaming style is in any danger of being changed, but i might as well say it:

Remove Damage Taken to Pets/Summons from the looting rights equation (imo the only part of the equation pets / summons should contribute to is damage done. Healing / damage taken should be for players only), and Allow dexters to compete (by conscious boss placement / movement) and you might see less greater dragons clogging events.

 

[Merus]

My argument is not that the monster bars are too difficult to pull.

I am saying that all these pets take away from the events themselves. Having Greater Dragons all over your screen is not fun. Pleasing tamers while making every other player suffer is not right.

View attachment 41717

But a good portion of the event is based on fighting. Why should tamers be dumped on because they bring their pets? Personally I hate events done in towns because it means no summons (I play a mystic, so that severely limits my ability to fight), so I can empathize with tamers against the idea that somehow they should be barred from pets because other people don't like them.

Maybe a filter like UOA has to view yourself as a different animation... So you could set your client to show all dragons as skeletons. (I know I use that sometimes as a gargoyle because my wings make it hard to see the ground).

 

[Smoot]

But a good portion of the event is based on fighting. Why should tamers be dumped on because they bring their pets? Personally I hate events done in towns because it means no summons (I play a mystic, so that severely limits my ability to fight), so I can empathize with tamers against the idea that somehow they should be barred from pets because other people don't like them.

Maybe a filter like UOA has to view yourself as a different animation... So you could set your client to show all dragons as skeletons. (I know I use that sometimes as a gargoyle because my wings make it hard to see the ground).

my problem with tamers is that you dont have to do a single thing. This is coming from how I play my tamers at events. I hit all kill, and thats it. no healing. no spells. it doesnt matter if i die or the dragon dies (thats actually the point, to get damage taken)

In my opinion this is just lazy game design and bad gameplay. "Doing nothing" should not be the most effective way to get looting rights on a tamer, or any template in the game.

 

[Longtooths]

In response to the particular event, EMs need to be conscious of the bosses surroundings.

That event boss was executed horribly. The EM should have known better. The "death pools" are a great addition to a boss, but not in a small room, and not if the boss doesnt "move around"

The same can be said for acid and fire. a boss that stays in one place with these effects makes any template other than tamer or ranged effectively worthless. And thats why we see so many tamers. because under the new system you can literally do nothing on your character, just let your dragon die, and get looting rights.

Its absolutely worthless discussing what makes for "good" gaming mechanics here on UO hall, people always complain if their current comfortable gaming style is in any danger of being changed, but i might as well say it:

Remove Damage Taken to Pets/Summons from the looting rights equation (imo the only part of the equation pets / summons should contribute to is damage done. Healing / damage taken should be for players only), and Allow dexters to compete (by conscious boss placement / movement) and you might see less greater dragons clogging events.

That's a lot of coding work for a, "Might".

 

[Smoot]

That's a lot of coding work for a, "Might".

Agreed, but the part that takes coding is really a secondary issue with the system in general.

The primary, issue, EMs being aware of their bosses, the boss sourroundings, and how certain effects will prohibit certain templates from participating if not implemented correctly is something that takes no coding (but now that you mention it, it might actually be easier to re-code the entire game than expect some of the current EMs to take all these things into consideration efficiently and effectively)

the real question is, was Lineman able to get looting rights last night on his fencer?

 

[Merus]

my problem with tamers is that you dont have to do a single thing. This is coming from how I play my tamers at events. I hit all kill, and thats it. no healing. no spells. it doesnt matter if i die or the dragon dies (thats actually the point, to get damage taken)

In my opinion this is just lazy game design and bad gameplay. "Doing nothing" should not be the most effective way to get looting rights on a tamer, or any template in the game.

I think there could be a lot of discussion regarding why people bring tamers. The same could be said for a lot of event styles. I see a lot of throwers who simply stand back and never fight anything until the final boss is up... Then they rely on those greater dragons to tank the boss so they can stand at max range with an AI macro. Not sure that is any better than an "all kill". Let's face it, there is no way the dragon is going to compete with AI for damage output.

I think most people use what tactic works for them to get rights... Some are "lamer" than others, but the truth is, I don't see many pure warriors up going toe to toe with the event boss while being the bosses target.

At the end of the day, players should be able to choose what works for them, regardless of whether other players like it. However, I do think there should be some options to improve the experience for other players without excluding people or templates from events.

 

[Merus]

Agreed, but the part that takes coding is really a secondary issue with the system in general.

The primary, issue, EMs being aware of their bosses, the boss sourroundings, and how certain effects will prohibit certain templates from participating if not implemented correctly is something that takes no coding (but now that you mention it, it might actually be easier to re-code the entire game than expect some of the current EMs to take all these things into consideration efficiently and effectively)

the real question is, was Lineman able to get looting rights last night on his fencer?

I absolutely agree with you regarding EMs being aware of the areas the choose for events and how that choice will impact people ability to participate! +2

 

[Longtooths]

Is there a melee character that could have fought toe to toe with the Mob last night? I wasn't there, just curious?

 

[Merus]

Is there a melee character that could have fought toe to toe with the Mob last night? I wasn't there, just curious?

With the massive kinds of effects that alot of bosses have now days, I don't think melee characters are viable most of the time. People complain about the dragons, when I think alot of the other templates that go to events would find surviving much harder without them there. Archers, Throwers, Mages, Mystics, Spellweavers... they all kinda rely on the boss chasing something besides themselves (in most cases that ends up being a dragon because it can live a little longer in the furnace).

 

[Smoot]

Is there a melee character that could have fought toe to toe with the Mob last night? I wasn't there, just curious?

@Promathia

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

All the tamers keep asking why should they be excluded because of their playstyle with a GD. Okay fine. Now let me ask this as a melee Paladin why should my playstyle be excluded because I can not see the boss monsters for all of the GDs? Either way someone ends up a second class citizen. I don't think there is anyway to make the events fair to everyone. One of the many reasons I don't bother with EM events.

 

[Poo]

i dont go to EM events but i find it humorous when people complain about all the meat shields that are there.
id love to see that SDI mage sitting back dropping bombs with no meat shield to soak up the bosses attention and damage.
what is the difference between having 30 GD there or having 30 RC's there?
the simple fact of the matter is that it dosnt matter what the mix of people are that are there if the event is in a small area and there are more then 15-20 people your gonna have trouble pulling bars.

i dont think i could come in here and make such a blanketing stupid comment as 'we should ban tamers with GD from events'.
thats like saying 'we should ban all mages from pvp'.
its impractical and for lack of a better (less offensive) word silly.

 

[The Slug]

I don't attend EM events (by choice) so I can't really comment on any of that. All I can say is I'd love to see that many people on my home shard on a non event night *sighs*

 

[StealYourFace]

There are 2 things that em' s can do to fix this. I've seen them do it before at some events. One has already been mentioned. Make the boss bigger. The second one is make the boss go red for 5 or 10 seconds in an area that's unattackable. This gives people time to drag the bar.

I've also seen EM,s refuse to spawn the boss until everyone clears out from around them. This worked well on some shards and not so well on others.

As far as getting rid of certain play styles from events; that's not the answer ever. I just know that there are better ways to conduct events so that it's fair for everyone because I've seen it done before.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

This is why the team created dragon turtles. Similar power level, but much smaller.
How about if the bosses had Baracoon's ability to morph them into something smaller? Baracoon turns dragons into rats. Area effect of course, so the whole crowd were converted.

My personal opinion is that the dragon turtle "experiment" has failed. Let's be honest, how hard is it to get a DECENT turtle, much less one that is as good as my nice greaters. I can go "farm" destard for greaters, and have a MUCH better chance of getting a good one, as opposed to going through COUNTLESS eggs, IF YOU CAN GET THEM. Now, if the dragon turtles spawned somewhere, and could be killed to spawn more, to have a chance at getting a nice one to tame,I would be MUCH more likely to fight a spawn with one. Until then, give me a greater all day long. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

This is why the team created dragon turtles. Similar power level, but much smaller.
How about if the bosses had Baracoon's ability to morph them into something smaller? Baracoon turns dragons into rats. Area effect of course, so the whole crowd were converted.

If the team really wants us to start using dragon turtles, how about just letting us trade a greater for a turtle with the same stats - for those of us refuse the new turtle farming system?

 

[Merlin]

Atlantic events are usually just overrun with a large number of people. While I am annoyed by all the "flappy" pets and toons in the way of mobs, it's atleast a sign that people still want to do these events regularly enough and actually show up.

With respect to last night's event in particular, I also don't think it helps that it was the first event in over a month and there was a larger crowd than usual. It will taper down to normal numbers in a few weeks, I'm guessing.

If the team really wants us to start using dragon turtles, how about just letting us trade a greater for a turtle with the same stats - for those of us refuse the new turtle farming system?

Maybe make it some type of mastery special - "turtle form" ?

There would have to be atleast one advantage and penalty applied though to make it more than just cosmetic change.

 

[Merus]

If the team really wants us to start using dragon turtles, how about just letting us trade a greater for a turtle with the same stats - for those of us refuse the new turtle farming system?

Reptile mutation serum!
Converts dragons to turtles. (Identical stats)
Crafted by Alchemists
Ingredients: 5 taint, 5 corruption, 1 small blackrock, 1 mature turtle egg.

 

[Spock's Beard]

How about a "display dragons as red-hued reptalons" checkmark box in the interface or something?

 

[GarthGrey]

I would say put a target cursor on the Polymorph spell, but then it would be Grief-town....

 

[Longtooths]

How about a "display dragons as red-hued reptalons" checkmark box in the interface or something?

How about a "display dragons as green-hued rabbits" checkmark box in the interface or something?

 

[MalagAste]

I agree with the issues about the Greater Dragons but..... there are any number of solutions that would work...

They tried with the Dragon Turtle but as many others have pointed out getting one that is even remotely good is nearly impossible...

Honestly I think the EMs should be given a power to turn all of them into the visual of a chicken and that goes for flappy Gargoyles too that seem to think it's cool to fly right on top of the EM... and never land. The effect should last for 2 hours max. It would be better if we could have a potion that did just that which we as players could apply to our pet. But sadly most players would not comply.... they like being jerks.

Many of the players do it as either an attention grab or as a purposeful action against other players to give them advantage in getting a drop... since you can't fight what you can't target or see. Which is why it needs to be in the hands of the EMs and NOT up to the players. Since we all know how many are when fueled by the Greed in this game.

 

[Smoot]

i dont go to EM events but i find it humorous when people complain about all the meat shields that are there.
id love to see that SDI mage sitting back dropping bombs with no meat shield to soak up the bosses attention and damage.
what is the difference between having 30 GD there or having 30 RC's there?
the simple fact of the matter is that it dosnt matter what the mix of people are that are there if the event is in a small area and there are more then 15-20 people your gonna have trouble pulling bars.

i dont think i could come in here and make such a blanketing stupid comment as 'we should ban tamers with GD from events'.
thats like saying 'we should ban all mages from pvp'.
its impractical and for lack of a better (less offensive) word silly.

technically, the greater dragons make it harder for melee templates in cases where theres a secondary effect (acid/death pools/fire) because they keep the boss stationary rather than allowing it to move around (a thrower can solo a boss via kiting, a dexter can solo a boss via parry/evasion)

Example - I fought an EM boss on Catskills where there were only 2 people. got the boss down to 10 percent health on a dexter character geared to fight blackthorns captains (life leech on weapon plus healing). This would have been impossible if there was fire/acid/death pools and greater dragons kept it in one place. (for clarity, the boss didnt die tho. at 10 percent the EM pulled it out becuase he said he wanted to wait until there were more people for the final boss - kinda unfair but understandable)

 

[Smoot]

@MalagAste just noting this becuase i know you play EC. I dont play EC regularly so cant say off top of my head where it is, but theres an option to turn off character animation to solve the wing flapping issue. someone more familiar with the EC interface could say exactly where it is if youd like to use that option.

 

[Deep Ellum Dan]

Another option would be to ad a feature similar to "Circle of Transparency", except that it would apply to pets. It would be awesome to be able to toggle that feature on/off. Maybe give it three settings: Hide all player-owned pets, Hide all player-owned pets belonging to other people, and Hide all non-allied player-owned pets.

This would allow warriors to clear the screen of all pets. Tamers could clear the screen of all pets except for their own. And guild could clear the screen of all non-guild pets so they could still focus on healing their own guild/ally pets.

A fourth setting of Hide all allied pets could also be helpful in PvP or at champ spawns. My warrior does not need to see guild/ally pets, but I would still want to see enemy pets belonging to anybody raiding me.

I like Petra's idea of the area form change, but having a circle of transparency for pets would be very useful in a number of other non-EM event scenarios.

I love that idea to hide pets.