IDEA to balance overpowered tamers !!!

[Guest]

Since I can no longer play this game due to UOAssist bs, I will post an idea here to balance PvP with tamers...


What about this ?

High end pets should only obey their masters if they are using one high resistance !
For example : White wyrms would only obey the tamer if he was using AT LEAST 60 cold resistance. Hiryus would only obey the tamer if he used AT LEAST 60 physical.... Dragons would require at least 60 Fire... Rune beetles would require 60 poison resistance !!

This would make things fair, because if the tamer is killed and we loot his ARMOR, he wouldnt be able to come back NAKED and stick his strong pets on us !!

Dont you all think it would be fair ?
I dont know about you but I think its ridiculous that a just ressed naked tamer can come back with his pets and kill someone with resistances all at 70s...


If we kill a tamer and loot his armor, he wont be able to use his pets again until he wears the required ammount of resistance to control that specific pet again !!

This would only apply to high end pets, of course ! (Dragons, beetles, wyrms, hyirus, cusidhes, reptalons....).


DESIGNERS.,.,., DO THIS FOR USSSSSSSSSSSS :}

 

[AntiOTF]

That sounds good, but If I'm out in the wilderness, the tamer has no chance anyway, tamers are only overpowered in guardzones. Take the ability for them to intiate attacks in towns, but give them the ability to protect themselves if someone intiates battle against them first. Outside a gz, I'll rip any tamer to pieces. Cause we all know, once a tamer attacks a red in gz, all the notos join in.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

That sounds good, but If I'm out in the wilderness, the tamer has no chance anyway, tamers are only overpowered in guardzones. Take the ability for them to intiate attacks in towns, but give them the ability to protect themselves if someone intiates battle against them first. Outside a gz, I'll rip any tamer to pieces. Cause we all know, once a tamer attacks you in gz, all the notos join in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I kill them too outside the guard zones... but the problem is that I dont even have time to loot because they self ress and stick the pets again on me, or someone resses them and they quickly put the pets again... And if those ultra trained pets touch you twice, you re dead meat, granted !!
Its not fun to die to a naked tamer... Not fun and not fair ! Just my opinion :L[

 

[AntiOTF]

Good point. Just make "bonded" pets only good for pvm, or make them use their siege bless on 1 bonded pet if they want to pvp with him.

 

[Guest]

they need to remove all kill again and make it so tamers at the bare minimum have to use 2 macros to get their pets to attack heck remove all "all's" from the game no all follow guard kill or anything like that, make it harder for the tamer not a ton but might be just enough,

no other nerfs on them i think would be implemented, siege is really the only place you have problems with stealth tamers most other shards dont need em cause everyone is in power suits and it doesnt matter if they die. ie no reason to run around naked and hidden behind 2 pets.

 

[Aikaeli]

Not enough of a fix. Also, remember that a decent tamer (of which there are v very few on Siege atm) will always be a threat 1v1 when geared properly. In our out of GZ. The fix would need to hit all tamers hard, and for me personally I would also need a fix for dismounters, because it makes playing against numbers impossible. Even bringing back animal form would be a great step. As it stands fighting 1v2 goes like this: jsv nub 1 appears and instantly dismounts. jsv nub 2 appears and runs at me, mounted out of stealth. jsv nub 1 chases me with moving shot. I invis and get mounted, because they're terrible, but once in a while they get me

. Before dismounting [censored] was so rampant, it went more like this: they succeed in dismount, I form away and come back, until they fail in dismount several times and die to my dumps and godly skill in general ;0

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

the RANGED dismount weapon special move needs to be removed.

problem solved.

 

[AntiOTF]

<blockquote><hr>

the RANGED dismount weapon special move needs to be removed.

problem solved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so they now stealth up on you, and dismount you with a non ranged weapon. How does this solve the problem?

 

[Guest]

Muwhahaha
What makes me sad is that we all have good ways and opinions on how to balance this game but the god damn designers, who should have the ideas, are totally out of ideas and have no attitude ! They re only good for implementing flowers and colorful trammy items for decoration...

If one of these designers would actually PLAY this game for a week or two, he would know what players really need. And Im sure its not flowers...

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

the RANGED dismount weapon special move needs to be removed.

problem solved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so they now stealth up on you, and dismount you with a non ranged weapon. How does this solve the problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ill take a dismounter that has to get right next to me and hope his dismount hit first time vs an archer that may get more than 2 shots to get you dismounted, much harder to use a close range weapon to dismount then it is a bow, i would gladly take that alternative.

 

[AntiOTF]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

the RANGED dismount weapon special move needs to be removed.

problem solved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so they now stealth up on you, and dismount you with a non ranged weapon. How does this solve the problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ill take a dismounter that has to get right next to me and hope his dismount hit first time vs an archer that may get more than 2 shots to get you dismounted, much harder to use a close range weapon to dismount then it is a bow, i would gladly take that alternative.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but once you're dismounted by 1 of JSV's 5 dismounters, the end result will still be the same. Fix the root of the problem, which are the pets, and not the fact of being dismounted. All this will do is bring more bolas to the market.

 

[AntiOTF]

Think of it like this, you have one blessed item , a tamer has a bless item (usually a dismount weapon) and 2 blessed pets, that's a total of 3 blessed items. This is the real issue, not having to be on foot.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

the RANGED dismount weapon special move needs to be removed.

problem solved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so they now stealth up on you, and dismount you with a non ranged weapon. How does this solve the problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ill take a dismounter that has to get right next to me and hope his dismount hit first time vs an archer that may get more than 2 shots to get you dismounted, much harder to use a close range weapon to dismount then it is a bow, i would gladly take that alternative.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but once you're dismounted by 1 of JSV's 5 dismounters, the end result will still be the same. Fix the root of the problem, which are the pets, and not the fact of being dismounted. All this will do is bring more bolas to the market.

[/ QUOTE ]


true i forgot about bola's, i honestly have no fix for tamers nothing i can think of would physically be implementable. you cant say no more killing in town because of faction purposes no reson to put them at a dis advantage there.

and you know they will never remove archer/tamer combo one of the original character choices was a ranger (archer/tamer) hehe too much history there.

i honestly got nothing...

 

[Alex the Gray]

Ive been playing for 6 years. Ive been killed by all sorts of things, for all sorts of reasons. But I have never been killed by anyones pet.
For all the people that are whining and complaining about the tamers- what you are REALLY saying is you want to kill the tamer really, really bad, but haven't the skill or know how. How sad. Pets are slow. Tamers are usually weak and defenseless. Find something else to whine about, instead of telling us how poor you play.
And, by the by, I don't play a tamer, and never have. Just dont have the patience for it.

 

[AntiOTF]

Dalvo is complaining about the tamers and their pets, but how quickly they can get back into the battle with 3 blessed items to interrupt your looting session.

 

[Nerf-Herder]

RTLFC...

They need to apply a penalty for pet damge in PvP. drop all pet damage against other players by 35% for starters. Test it, then adjust accordingly.

I like the devs idea of trying to keep the PvP and PvM systems working under the same rules (no caps or penalties should apply to ONLY PvP), but it just isn't realistic. The two systems are too different, and IMO need to be handled as such.

Some of the biggest balance issues we have dealt with were the result of new uber PvM content. Things like honor with perfection, shido crits, WOD archers, all seemed great and fair when fighting a monster with 10,000 hit points, but against a player with ~100 they were grossly overpowered.

Also--For the love of PETA, put a damn timer on pet ball usage. It's animal abuse I say!

 

[Guest]

i got it get rid of self res for aggressors including sacrafice and the spell weaving one. If you are an aggressor you should definately not be able to use sacrafice just like a red can not use any virtues. and the spell weaving one just cause =}.

So you attack you dont get to self res simple as taht you should not be able to control your pets from beyond the grave is the whole idea.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Ive been playing for 6 years. Ive been killed by all sorts of things, for all sorts of reasons. But I have never been killed by anyones pet.
For all the people that are whining and complaining about the tamers- what you are REALLY saying is you want to kill the tamer really, really bad, but haven't the skill or know how. How sad. Pets are slow. Tamers are usually weak and defenseless. Find something else to whine about, instead of telling us how poor you play.
And, by the by, I don't play a tamer, and never have. Just dont have the patience for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You surely dont know what you re talking about, brother !
Have you ever been targetted by a tamer with ultra strong insta killing pets ? have you ever been dismounted and "all killed" ?
Its easy for you to talk if you ve never faced blue stealth tamers targetting you with their insane pets.

Look around... These are veteran PvPers talking about how unfair tamers are in PvP currently.
If these veteran people are complaining about it, and you say tamers are easy to kill and they suck, something is very wrong here ! Either you rock or all these people are horrible at PvP !! And Im sure both options are false ! :]

 

[Alex the Gray]

this game is about checks and balances. Your mad cuz you cant do something you want to because you have been "checked". Overcome the obstacle, or move on.

 

[Aikaeli]

<blockquote><hr>

Ive been playing for 6 years. Ive been killed by all sorts of things, for all sorts of reasons. But I have never been killed by anyones pet.
For all the people that are whining and complaining about the tamers- what you are REALLY saying is you want to kill the tamer really, really bad, but haven't the skill or know how. How sad. Pets are slow. Tamers are usually weak and defenseless. Find something else to whine about, instead of telling us how poor you play.
And, by the by, I don't play a tamer, and never have. Just dont have the patience for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't remember who the hell you are, but you certainly aren't a good PVPer, so chill out and be realistic for a second.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

this game is about checks and balances. Your mad cuz you cant do something you want to because you have been "checked". Overcome the obstacle, or move on.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think games have to be fair ! The moment an absolutely naked tamer with 5 bandages and a bola can kill someone with resistances all 70s, 2/6 fc/fcr jewels and potions something is terribly wrong.
I dont mind dieing when its a good battle, or even because I was ganked. If someone was better than me in such battle, he surely deserved all my items... But losing all the items to a NAKED tamer is more ridiculous than dieing to guard whacks...
If at least our items were given to the PETS, it would be more refreshing. But no, everything goes to the pathetic newbie tamer, who only press one button "all kill" and watch the computer to kill his opponents !

Give me a break.

 

[Alex the Gray]

EXACTLY!!! I am not a good pvper. SO- if pets cant and have never been able to kill me, then well dave you are doing something SERIOUSLY wrong lol

 

[Alex the Gray]

*smells sour grapes*
I cant kill anyone, anywhere, at anytime, for any reason. I am SO angry!
*walks away laughing*

 

[pikon198]

one quick and easy step to get rid of dismounters is to do away with ALL mounts, no horses no ninja forms just everyone on foot running same pace, as for the tamers, the pets wouldnt be so bad if they didnt insta leap on you everytime they said All Kill, pets should walk slowly toward you, to give you a chance to run away, as they are currently they are super fast moving. If tamers pets were slowed down to a walking pace tamers would not be such a great threat i think.

 

[imported_mo'gluk]

bah!!!

tamers are easy....

 

[Alex the Gray]

its all sour grapes. Some folks want every kill to be easy and quick. They dont want to work for their dinner or have to risk defeat.
Its laughable

 

[Guest]

one quick and easy step to get rid of dismounters is to do away with ALL mounts,

NO !!!

Typical pvp is NOT the only template out there ya know.

YOU carry 300 boards from a tree ... without a blue beetle, or YU go mine up ore that siftly becomes many stones of weight withoug your blue beetle or even a pack horse... etc..

Sorry there should be common sense here on mounts, low end ones that crafters utilise are NOT your one hit wonder kill pets, nor should all mounts be eliminated cuz yall cant fight some tamers or gimpy templates that pvp out there. There are those types of mounts that are NOT even the issue..*for pvpers* vs. *tamers* or *tamer pvpers*..so leave OUR mounts the hell alone and not gotten rid of, they are our uhauls from out in the field to a bank or whereer, crafters mounts are not even the issue.

And don't shout use a bag of sending...those only gonna hold 10 stones now...ie worthless anyhow for a crafter, compared to a pack llama pack horse or blue beetle.

If you want to WALK ONLY toting 300+ boards a jog ...go for it ..leave crafters mounts out of 'DA PVPers' picture...cuz they are not IN the picture nor creating issues.

 

[Aikaeli]

<blockquote><hr>

EXACTLY!!! I am not a good pvper. SO- if pets cant and have never been able to kill me, then well dave you are doing something SERIOUSLY wrong lol

[/ QUOTE ]

1v1 it's normally possible to run from a tamer, but if you run into a good tamer (not that any are playing at the moment) and actually FIGHT long enough for him to bola you, you will die. Shakamura and Forsaken (on his tamer) come to mind. The problem is that 1) you can't stand toe to toe with a tamer, and if the tamer is good you probably won't be able to 1v1 him at all unless he's run out of petball charges; 2) if you want to talk about PLAYING TO WIN, it now takes gimp tactics such as making tamers. Here's one scenario from many months ago: Shak was killing a lot of us EVO with his tamer Shakamura in big OTF-EVO battles, so Sakey threw on taming and did the same thing to equalize (and did it better). It wasn't even that he was practiced in playing AoS pvp tamers. It's just very easy to bola all kill petball etc. If you have stealth for the surprise and evasion factor, or magery for the defense factor, you're all the more lethal. Now, like I said, I don't know who you are, but I'm sure you've not been involved in these playing to win guilds where these strats are really tested, so take my word for it: the best players on Siege avoid tamers because of disgust with the unskilled paradigm they evoke, the best players can't take on slightly worse players who use well-geared tamers with sensible auxiliary skills and petballs, and so we are left with guilds like JSV and TnA, comprised almost entirely of unskilled players, using these cheap tactics to BALANCE the CHECK of SKILL. It's nonsensical. Anyway, I'm not playing Siege atm because of all this ****e: after the animal form nerf, there has been no way to really escape a dismount-tamer gank done successfully. Most of the nubs in said guilds don't even think to bring conflag pots or have the dexterity to use detect hidden quickly enough to stop us from invising and remounting, but some do. It's just a joke. This server is a joke as far as pvp.

 

[imported_Trep]

<blockquote><hr>

*smells sour grapes*
I cant kill anyone, anywhere, at anytime, for any reason. I am SO angry!
*walks away laughing*

[/ QUOTE ]

ya...thats exactly what wyrm was getting at....

.......

 

[Aikaeli]

By the way, your empty 1-line provocations aren't going to rile up Dalvo or me so you might as well leave the thread and accept that while we don't disagree with you about the fact that there are counters to tamers (para fields, beetle slayer talismans, etc.) we know for a fact that the best player is BETTER if he's using a tamer. We want to play to win but we don't want to rely on templates that take little skill. This is the crux. The best templates to play, even for the best players, are those that take little skill (tamer templates). So some of us, myself included, have moved on to other places to play. If you look at the history of Siege you will see that most of the best players of the past have left after citing the reasons of 1) Siege's low population, 2) the superiority of tamer templates which deaden the tests of skill in PVP and 3) the dismount BS, the current #1 cause.

 

[Alex the Gray]

no one liners here bud- the crux of the matter is that if you cant win 100% of the time, you won't play. You stated you dont even play here anymore. Sooo- your opinion is worth- SQUAT?

 

[Aikaeli]

Uh, in every era of UO I have had my share of losses. Where I play now I lose quite a bit, and there is a ton of people who at this point would consistently beat me 1v1. Thus your first point is invalidated. Next? Oh--my opinion doesn't matter because I don't play here? I still have my account and played as few as 2 weeks ago. Nice waste of a post tho thanks.

 

[Alex the Gray]

you're welcome, whinner lol.
EVEYONE!!! THIS IS THE WHINNING POST!!!

Please come and post your complaints because you cant win 100% of the time. Because you have plan, work, and struggle to win.
Come and whine here!!!
This is the official whinning post lol

 

[pikon198]

QZ i said mounts not packies, you crafters can keep all the packies you want, just have no ridable mounts.

 

[Aikaeli]

I just said that I have a tougher time winning where I play now, and not even against gimps--against people used to the same temps I play there, which take skill. So stop with the 100% "whinning" (that's "whining," by the way) posts, kid. I know for a fact--I'm in vent with him--that Wyrm/Dalvo doesn't "whine" when he dies, either.

 

[pikon198]

*whine commensing*

WHY CANT people just sail on boats and pvp, then no one can get tamer ganked or dismounted... BECAUSE YOUR ON A BOAT!!! Pets cant teleport onto your ship if you lock it muahahaha, screw those beasts!!! SAIL BOAT FTW!!

*whine completed*

 

[Fidessa]

Eh I don't like your fix. I want just a normal fix. Reduce pets damage against players with 60% (maybe more) and remove armour corruption ability of a rune beetle!

 

[Fidessa]

What about dismount special costs like crazy amount of mana for an overpowered special?

 

[Nerf-Herder]

I don't want to get rid of mounts, but I would like to see the devs provide some incentive for people to be on foot. I propose that all damage generated by a player on a mount will be reduced by 20%. If you want to maximize your damage, you'll have to walk. If you want to be more mobile, you can be, but you will have to sacrifice a little damage.

Trade-offs.

BTW--I do mean ALL damage too. I don't care if it is melee weapon, bow, direct damage spell, field spell, summon, pet, potion... ANY damage generated by a mounted player should be slightly reduced to entice people into walking.

 

[Guest]

The blue beetle IS a MOUNT *and a packy* both, so is the movable forge beetle a MOUNT yet not a packie.

Yall make blanket sweeping statements like the Pvp-ers are the ONLY template out there, that has needs. . shouting eliminate all mounts nerf all pets...etc. REAL tamers that pvm with their pets not pvp with em, would also have issues with blanket statements to get rid of all mounts.

Till yall come up with some REAL resolutions...sweeping blanket statement changes are NOT the solution.

 

[Aikaeli]

I think they are. Because tamers are overpowered in PVM also, except in the case of champ spawns, where necros are still the best.

 

[Guest]

I like this idea somewhat but i'd MUCH rather see tamers just limited to 1 UBER bonded pet that requires their Siege Personal Bless inorder to be bonded.

 

[pikon198]

or lol, kinda like they made tactics a requirement for using weapon specials maybe they can make forensic evaluation a requirement for a tamer's animal to attack humans(players), i said forensic eval cause its never used might as well do seomthing with it hehehe. it might not put a stop to these tamers, but it will hinder plenty tamer templates out there by having to add 100 forensic eval to be able to attack players... just a thought.

Personally i have nothing against dismounters, if you get dismounted alot its time you made a freind and this freind will hide in shadows so when you get dismounted your freind can dismount them back and HAHA your all running on two feet, play field even

 

[Masumatek]

1) No, tamers would still be way too overpowered.

2) My idea: Pets shouldn't be doing the primary damage in PvP or PvM. They should be more like little helpers, doing a BIT of damage for you, taking a BIT of damage from you as people/monsters hit them instead of you, but YOU should have to be doing the real damage and the real work, not your pets. Tamers need a major nerf in both PvP and PvM.

3) Uo-assist problems is not a reason to stop PvPing.

 

[AntiOTF]

<blockquote><hr>

The blue beetle IS a MOUNT *and a packy* both, so is the movable forge beetle a MOUNT yet not a packie.

Yall make blanket sweeping statements like the Pvp-ers are the ONLY template out there, that has needs. . shouting eliminate all mounts nerf all pets...etc. REAL tamers that pvm with their pets not pvp with em, would also have issues with blanket statements to get rid of all mounts.

Till yall come up with some REAL resolutions...sweeping blanket statement changes are NOT the solution.

[/ QUOTE ]

This may, or may not come as a shock to you, but Siege is in fact now a pvp shard.

 

[Guest]

um NO pvp is NOT the only set of templates here, on Siege.

Is it perhaps the more popular yes..but pvping is not the ONLY template permitted here to breathe or to count or matter for the same fee we all pay per month that yall should only be the templates that matter, above all others all the time..whom also RIDE mounts..which also haul.

And unless one HAS multiple accts. to be pvper templates AND the ones here all making all the smoke bombs and apples and other things all you pvpers may need/use for pvping, that may be crafted potions bombs apples etc. etc. etc. ...sorry yall may be the demi gods of pvp here on this shard, but you are not the only ones here all alone, nor are yall are the only templates that should matter, on the planet Siege when dev. team changes are needed across the board.

So blanket statements to cure yalls issues, if they exterminate others templates usefulness to exist or to use their templates then...make your own bombs apples potions by the kegs and every thing else needed here by yall and CARRY EM without a beetle or mount of any sort..enjoy luggin it all to enable yall to pvp and chug all them potions WE all haul for yall to USE in pvp with our PETS that are mounts and uhauls both.

HIGH end pets the SE ML ones, them the ones yall need to address issues with not ours.

 

[imported_Magnolia]

I like your idea WyRm.. at least some people see the problem of this template and the result of how unbalanced templates without fixes does indeed drive off good players because they are not having fun...why should they continue to beat their head against the wall of gamers with pets night after night... it gets tiring and people, after a few times of battling groups of dismounters and tamers/pets... say screw it and just leave to go do something else because it isn't fun... if it were fun... would be different.. if killing tamers was worth it... but it isn't...if killing their pet was worth it..... but it isn't..

How about this... Make killing the pets really worth it... Each time you get the kill for the pet... you get some kind of bonus or reward.. And a penalty for the tamer... sooooo Perhaps for the kill you get reward gold put into your backpack from the tamer's bank... and if there is not enough gold in the tamer's bank to cover the death of his pet... then his pet disappears FOREVER!!!!!


Then there would be a different attitude of killing pets... Everyone would go WoooHooo!!!!... Pets!..

 

[pikon198]

so how about you can keep your blue and fire beetles and pack horses and pack llamas, BUT you just cant ride them

simply solved. You can store all the ore you want in them just cant ride em. I mean after all if you start putting things inside your beetle you cant ride it anyways, am i right... So it wouldnt be a big difference if your beetle is non ridable anymore, cause the second you start lumberjacking or mining you cant ride it anyways.

 

[Guest]

The blue beetle can haul close to 1500 stones and is ridable up until it is too heavy to take on our weight too atop them.

WHY do you want our mounts to be non rideable..not like the crafters are out there pking pvping with our mounts...or is it that pvpers just feel they have the godly rights to .. HAVE TO decide what crafters are permitted to do or to ride or to use..for pets mounts combo uhaul vehicles, for their 12.99 a month too ??

The issues are with the SE and ML high end pets and mounts deal with those. Once upon a time when they created the pet golums the world cried NERF NERF NERF the tinker toys are too ..over powered and the dev. team heard the cries and nerfed em all to a bag of bolts and about useless................ yet all the ML AND SE pets remain one hit kill wonders....its NOT my beetle nor any crafters beetles out there be they mounted on em or not that is yalls problem. DEAL with what IS..pet mount issues for pvp and not with what is not even related to.. one hit wonder pets of SE and ML expansion and ...pvp issues.

Our pets mounts and uhaul combo pets are NOT a pvp issue.. deal with finding the cures or resolutions that ARE yalls problems or issues with one hit wonder pets and pvping pvpers.

 

[pikon198]

not at all, Dalvo and the rest said what can be done to stop dismounters and so i said have no mounts , itll never happen i just said it to see peoples reactions, i know people love their mounts too much and would never give it up. BUT one way to actually stop dismounting in pvp can be by just moving the playing field to the water. If everyone fights on ships everyones the same speed and you cant get dismounted