Idea for making plate armor useful

[Cetric]

So another piece of seemingly useless stuff....

why not give exceptional plate armor a 550 intensity cap

on top of this, add some different things that can be imbued to platemail:

5 hit chance - 110 intensity, 22 per 1

5 defense chance - 100 intensity - 20 per 1

10 damage increase - 100 intensity - 10 per 1

5% elementals eater - 110 intensity - 22 per 1 (pois/fire/cold/energy)

10% kinetic eater - 110 intensity - 11 per 1 (its metal armor, it makes sense to bump the physical eater)


You could also even help leather armor by adding maybe an imbuable 5% soul charge at 110 intensity.

Most of these obviously can be found on woodland armor, however with woodland armor you can enhance them for these mods free. Alternativly you could build around them for a very low intensity.

I think doing this would give plate armor a real use. There have been other ideas over time for plate armor as well. Currently you really only see woodland armor or leather, where plate, chain, and ring armor is a center piece of old uo. In useing plate you would give up the ability to use med (unless you use 140 intensity on the Mage Armor property) This would add to more suit/template customization.

Another property that would be nice would be the ability to imbue 5 skill or 5 swing speed, but thought that might be pushing it.

 

[pgib]

Looks nice. +1

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

My thought on this issue for those who care:

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/247255-regarding-uo-armor-debate.html

The more historical reading I've done about armor the less sold I am that metal armor in particular or non-meddable armor in general should have advantages. The more reading I do the less sense that makes to me both historically and in a UO context.

My own suggestion has long-been to have a PvM-only damage absorption bonus that's similar to but doesn't stack with the Swamp Dragon barding damage absorption.

-Galen's player

 

[Cetric]

My thought on this issue for those who care:

My own suggestion has long-been to have a PvM-only damage absorption bonus that's similar to but doesn't stack with the Swamp Dragon barding damage absorption.

-Galen's player

Still... pvm only... yuck.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Still... pvm only... yuck.

I should clarify: My proposal is for a complete set of non-meddable armor, of any variety, to have such an absorption.

Why PvM only? Because I remember far too well when literally every PvPer on LS was running around with a swamp dragon. (And with....Whatever that artifact is that's a tribal mask. Crap, I forget what it is. Divine Countenance? Is that it?)

Anyway, maybe not every PvPer will be wearing plate if it's given an advantage, but every PvP warrior would. (And if you have any plate bonus stack with mage armor? Then every PvPer will indeed be wearing plate.)

Fictionally the idea would be thus....PvP is more about finesse and running around and executing maneuvers and tactics and ****. PvM's more about being a tank.

And, well....Most of the time I've seen PvMers and/or Role-Players want this. So I've pitched my proposal in the context of fearing that PvPers would specifically not want something that'd impact them.

(In fact I'm pretty sure you're the first PvPer I can recall off-hand asking for this!)

Anything they do, though, for plate armor, they absolutely must not do for Samurai Plate because that seems to in most cases have mage armor as a free property. (Which is why the best non-Imbued armor is still Samurai Plate made from a Valorite runic...Valorite runic hammer gives you better bonuses than barbed runic kit does according to the UO Guide. So that bonus + free mage armor property leads to some really good **** out there.)

-Galen's player

 

[Cetric]

I should clarify: My proposal is for a complete set of non-meddable armor, of any variety, to have such an absorption.

Why PvM only? Because I remember far too well when literally every PvPer on LS was running around with a swamp dragon. (And with....Whatever that artifact is that's a tribal mask. Crap, I forget what it is. Divine Countenance? Is that it?)

Anyway, maybe not every PvPer will be wearing plate if it's given an advantage, but every PvP warrior would. (And if you have any plate bonus stack with mage armor? Then every PvPer will indeed be wearing plate.)

Fictionally the idea would be thus....PvP is more about finesse and running around and executing maneuvers and tactics and ****. PvM's more about being a tank.

And, well....Most of the time I've seen PvMers and/or Role-Players want this. So I've pitched my proposal in the context of fearing that PvPers would specifically not want something that'd impact them.

(In fact I'm pretty sure you're the first PvPer I can recall off-hand asking for this!)

Anything they do, though, for plate armor, they absolutely must not do for Samurai Plate because that seems to in most cases have mage armor as a free property. (Which is why the best non-Imbued armor is still Samurai Plate made from a Valorite runic...Valorite runic hammer gives you better bonuses than barbed runic kit does according to the UO Guide. So that bonus + free mage armor property leads to some really good **** out there.)

-Galen's player

I dont mean add the absorption to pvp, i just don't like the idea of an armor having a benefit that is pvm only. I pretty much strictly pvp, i've seen you around a few times on your 4/6 dexer. I would enjoy wearing metal armor, and not for the chance i run into an ogre lord and take a few less hit points of damage when he beats me in the face.

The thing is the advantage has to have a disadvantage. if they added the things i suggested to the imbuing menu for metal armor, maybe they also make it so mage armor cannot coexist with these properties, making the item non-medable through and through.

pvpers want to look cool too (i hate my dexer wearing a robe and leather armor, it just bugs me, but it is necessary for mana, and there is no reason not to wear it) I want customization, more then anything. Plus, i think adding things would add a little bit more diversity to templates. I mean, it bugged me that i wore a quiver too because there wasn't another good back piece option, now it bugs me too wear a cape because its a cape. Should of added a scabbard or something with 5 dci just like a quiver lol.


I'm happy you mentioned samarai armor, because crafted samarai armor has that inherent mage armor property (which maybe should go away if it has hci/dci, etc)

 

[Tor the Invincible]

Just remove the mage armor property and make everything medable. The whole medability thing was put in a million years ago to keep people from combining the power of magery with the superior protection of metal armor, and that hasn't been a concern for years and years now.

 

[>DatGuyUKnow<]

Just remove the mage armor property and make everything medable. The whole medability thing was put in a million years ago to keep people from combining the power of magery with the superior protection of metal armor, and that hasn't been a concern for years and years now.

Then everyone would use plate instead of leather...

 

[silent]

Just remove the mage armor property and make everything medable. The whole medability thing was put in a million years ago to keep people from combining the power of magery with the superior protection of metal armor, and that hasn't been a concern for years and years now.

Even at that metal armor can't compare to other armor, unless you bang out an uber piece from a val hammer.

 

[Mirt]

The reasons that we should boost metal armor is that before the magic is applied, plate (which was used for 100s of years) and leather (which was never actually used as armor) come out to the exact same resists. The leather comes with a free property. Therefore just in the name of balance the plate should have higher resists. That way you can make it with the mage armor property via magic, but then you cannot give more to other ends. That is called balanced its the same idea behind things in fel.

 

[Cetric]

Then everyone would use plate instead of leather...

That wouldn't be bad either, just making everything medable. Maybe keep woodland armor non med because it can be pretty nasty. lol, actually, in doing this, you would instantly make most of the old forgotten doom artifacts worth while (helm of insight, leggings of bane, etc)

But i don't think everyone would use plate, they might use a single piece if they need big time physical or something. The resists on leather and ingots are comparable.

And actually val hammer made armor isn't as good as imbued by someone who knows what they are doing... weapons on the other hand...

 

[Uvtha]

My thought on this issue for those who care:

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/247255-regarding-uo-armor-debate.html

The more historical reading I've done about armor the less sold I am that metal armor in particular or non-meddable armor in general should have advantages. The more reading I do the less sense that makes to me both historically and in a UO context.

My own suggestion has long-been to have a PvM-only damage absorption bonus that's similar to but doesn't stack with the Swamp Dragon barding damage absorption.

-Galen's player

I also would vote for damage absorb for those who don't want to ride a swamp dragon everywhere.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

Nice ideas. I'm on board.

 

[CovenantX]

I also would vote for damage absorb for those who don't want to ride a swamp dragon everywhere.

I agree on this as well.

a higher imbuing cap on specific weapons/armor types will never be the right answer to this kind of thing, Imbuing is Way overpowered as it is, let it stay useful without nerfing it, but not improving it as well.

 

[Howlin Wolf]

Make it simple. Metal armor stays as is, but if you have Mage Armor on 1 piece you have it on your whole suit.

 

[CovenantX]

Why PvM only? Because I remember far too well when literally every PvPer on LS was running around with a swamp dragon.

-Galen's player

I remember that, on LS as well the absorption would still be useful in pvp, as like raiding spawns n such, when pvm interferes, the only thing, is the armor between Leather & Plate, it still is not med-able and the absorption would likely be lower, but could stack on to the Swamp dragon armor, and make the cap for those who would want to use studded, ring, or chain armor.

I would hope Dragonscale, Wooden, & Stone Armor would be the same amount as Plate.

 

[xxmoondancerxx]

Really there should be something that should make the plate armor more useful. If you were pre AOS you should all know that it was a big deal to have verite or valorite plate. And you'd pray that when you gave it to the player blacksmiths that would repair your armor they would give it back LOL. It was like having something uber.

Change is always nice. Some people whine about it. Oh well, whatever the developers thinks will benefit the gameplay and have everyone on their toes will be I suppose.

 

[Merion]

This is the umpteenth idea for making metal armor relevant again.

I don't care how they do it, but something has to be done.

 

[Obsidian]

I like Cetric's idea of a 550 intensity cap for exceptional metal armor (plate, ring, and chainmail).

I would like to see the ability to imbue 5 HCI, 5 DCI, 10 DI, and 5 SSI on metal suit pieces. Maybe have DCI and HCI eligible on plate, SSI on Chain (remember there are only 3 chain pieces) and DI eligible for imbue on ringmail. Also add these as potential mods to craft with runic hammers too.

 

[Viquire]

Not sure about a 550 cap.

I have had in mind that "fitted" suits (where all parts match of any type) should receive some sort of bonus. You can take that a bit further by making the "effect" enjoyed dependent on the armor type, and making metals and leathers something to enhance with for effects besides resists.

Not sure where that would put us with Samurai plate and the mage armor property. I wouldn't mind seeing it go away, but others may love it.

 

[Warpig Inc]

Give new mods that can be Imbued or odd rare chance from runic on Scale Armor only. And this new class of scale armor gets any the new off mods they receive the "For Humans Only"

Next to the best looking armor wore as a set is the Bone Armor.

As a balance of having theese new unique properties. Mage Armor mod is removed like self repair when imbuing. And if on the runic random list just not have Mage Armor as a hit for runics on Scale or Bone armor


Just like the weight of armor effects stealing it. Could also add in if wearing a piece of armor over a certain weight cannot transform or assume animal forms. Or can transform but armor over a certain weight drops to your backpack. Werewolf/HULK factor.

 

[Viquire]

I just wanted to throw in here while I was thinking about it, something that has not been brought up, to my knowledge in a couple of years.

And that is: that I would enjoy playing a human or elf mage in cloth gear.

Really I would like for all kinds of clothing to be fitted with resists and mods and have varying, or very slight, imbueing caps for those off slot items like cloaks, robes, aprons or kilts, shoes etc. Probably never happen, but, as long as we are kicking ideas around...

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I'd be happy if they just eliminated the med penalty for metal armor and dropped mage armor as a property.

 

[Tor the Invincible]

I'd be happy if they just eliminated the med penalty for metal armor and dropped mage armor as a property.

It really is the most efficient, elegant solution to the problem. If metal armor had never had a med penalty, would anyone really think there was any reason to add one now? No, it's silly and outdated.

 

[Mervyn]

Plate armor has a use:

They look cool for roleplayers,

It's studded leather and hide that has no "use".

So they have no "use" don't worry about them, they're not spoiling your game, leave them be.

 

[Cetric]

Plate armor has a use:

They look cool for roleplayers,

It's studded leather and hide that has no "use".

So they have no "use" don't worry about them, they're not spoiling your game, leave them be.

Oh cmon... you know you would like to sport some platemail arms and not give up mods

 

[Mervyn]

Oh cmon... you know you would like to sport some platemail arms and not give up mods

I would, I really would, but i'd rather to team concentrate on fixing bugs first

 

[CovenantX]

Maybe they should just add a "Base damage increase" for non-medable armor
(damage increase should be for melee only, Or they could balance out the ranged weapons, to be more in-tuned with melee)

and re-implement the old Dex Penalty that existed pre-AoS for non-medable armor.
(I don't think studded armor had a dex penalty) but everything else that was non-med had it.

This might bring back two-handed weapons as well, if done right.

 

[Mirt]

So your saying that now if the time to further nerf plate?

 

[Phoenix_Mythic]

One interesting thing that was lost in the conversion to damage resists was the effect of armor soaking damage instead of diminishing it. Suppose armor absorbs 5 damage per hit: Against a weapon that does 10 damage per hit, the armor is absorbing 50% of it. Against a weapon that does 20 damage per hit, the armor is absorbing 25%.

As it was before, heavier armor would soak more damage per hit. So, full plate was very effective against fast, low-damage weapons. Against slow heavy-hitters, it was still better than leather, but not that much better.

 

[Viquire]

One interesting thing that was lost in the conversion to damage resists was the effect of armor soaking damage instead of diminishing it. Suppose armor absorbs 5 damage per hit: Against a weapon that does 10 damage per hit, the armor is absorbing 50% of it. Against a weapon that does 20 damage per hit, the armor is absorbing 25%.

As it was before, heavier armor would soak more damage per hit. So, full plate was very effective against fast, low-damage weapons. Against slow heavy-hitters, it was still better than leather, but not that much better.

Well, I could take issue with that, but in a sense you are correct. A hally blow was pretty devastating to a mage wearing invulnerable leather, and very eye opening for a warrior in full inv plate. Your thoughts are part of a good idea! I would like to know how this would affect, if at all, purely elemental effects like dragon breath and chain lightening, just as examples.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Apologies for bringing this tread back after a few days.

But a few things hit me that are of relevance.

I noticed the implication in several posts that RPers would be more into using plate armor simply by being RPers. This isn't true. (Before other players suddenly realized they liked plate, this stereotype was used to make fun of us; funny how things turn around, isn't it.)

What roleplayers want is flexibility, so that we can make the characters look the way we think they should look in our heads. Some characters will want plate, some won't. Galen, for example, would not. He's light cavalry.

And flexibility causes me to raise a suggestion that's been raised by many people and has the potential to fix cosmetic issues for everyone, not just for RPers: Having the ability to convert an armor item into another item on the same equipment slot.

One example: Mace and Shield Glasses to plate helm with same stats.

Find some way to make it so that you can't turn a non-meddable item into a meddable item and I can't think of any issues. Easily could be issues I haven't thought of. But I do not believe so.

-Galen's player

 

[G.v.P]

I think the simple solution is to just get rid of the mage armor property and make everything medable. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but with **** like MR 9 on Shame items none of the old non-med items turning medable will kill the game.

Everything medable.

/Sandbox

 

[Kayne]

Galen makes a good point about RP'ers and even general players.

My mage was and should still be a monk according to his evolution.
However he doesn't have much luck on his armour since other things were more important when I got my imbued suit made.

He currently wears the elf luck robe but if I could have that luck bonus on a monk/hooded robe it would be great. Would also help to have monk robes be dyeable to highlight his rank within his temple.
Would also be cool if robes had more designs - it would be quite cool to have the high collar like my forum sig does along with the hood.

As Galen says people want flexibility, my monk mage is unlikely to want to wear plate and would probably be better off in cloth/leather armour. My sword fighting monk (yeah I don't stick to traditional) would probably want a heavy armour but still somewhat monkish in style

 

[Mirt]

I would agree the best compromise might just be to make everything medable. That would mean that the only real difference would be in look and what you get from enhancing.

 

[Maximus of Lck]

To me, the common sense solution to this situation is to allow plate armor to actually have the highest available physical resistance of all armor types. Raise it? No. Allow only plate to have the highest possible physical resists. Plate > Chain > Ring > Studded etc. Now, in doing so, the obvious opposite resists such as energy or cold should be limited on plate. Conversely, armor such as leather should have perhaps the highest possible Fire resists, and lower maximum physical. Each set of armor should have a specific purpose. I mean really, how can a floppy hat or a bandana have 20% physical resist. Cloth armor shouldn't be allowed more than 1% physical resist if you ask me. (Also it should have Negative fire resists in all fairness)

The way it is it doesn't matter what kind of armor you wear these days. I would propose that each type\genre of armor have logical maximums put in place for all resistances so each has it's use.

 

[Herman]

Good thing u bump this thread

Now when the new shame loot is out u can get all kind of diffrent stats on armour
This would be a good time to let us imbue somthing else on metal armour to make it useful again
I suggest 5 dci on each pice but it could be anything just make it useful

 

[Omnius]

One interesting thing that was lost in the conversion to damage resists was the effect of armor soaking damage instead of diminishing it. Suppose armor absorbs 5 damage per hit: Against a weapon that does 10 damage per hit, the armor is absorbing 50% of it. Against a weapon that does 20 damage per hit, the armor is absorbing 25%.

As it was before, heavier armor would soak more damage per hit. So, full plate was very effective against fast, low-damage weapons. Against slow heavy-hitters, it was still better than leather, but not that much better.

Do remember when players didn't need spread sheets to play UO?

 

[Aurelius]

Systems need to do a tricky combination in an mmo like UO, they should be 'intuitive' enough that people can understand the basics without studying in too much detail, but also balanced enough that the crafters, and those who specialise in optimising, can work on the finer details. (Leaving aside the simple 'but it looks nice' approach!)

Armour in UO is anything but intuitive. Leather is a good as metal but then so are some types of wood, whilst once you add in strange effects from runics or imbuing it all becomes incredibly complicated and the basic question - 'what sort of armour protects me from damage best, and at what cost?', and worst of all 'in terms of the logic of the world, why?' is almost unanswerable.

I still think the original systems, where effectively armour protection traded off against loss of speed and dexterity, was easy to understand and not particularly 'historically' inaccurate. There's a fine line between 'real life realism' and 'fantasy world realism', and I for one can live with the idea that in a world where I can resurrect dead people with a bandage I'd be slower the more metal I wear but better protected, or quicker and more flexible wearing leathers but I'll get hurt more when people hit me with things.

The tradeoff should maybe be more 'are you easier to hit if wearing a lot of heavy stuff, but taking less damage because it defends better', but there's also the issue of stamina - you probably tire faster in a load of metal and being hammered with a large chunk of iron may not do a huge amount of damage thanks to your new plate armour, but you still suffer some bad effects from the battering.... whereas if you are in leather you take the damage more 'directly' from an abstracted health/hit point total, rather than a mix of health/speed damage. Studded, chainmail, and the (idiotically heavy!) ringmail fit in a sliding scale between basic leather and full plate... and making stone or wood types match an rough 'equivalent' of a basic armour grouping should not be too hard to do.

 

[Wizal the Fox]

One of the problem with the OP's idea is that it would make in turn Woodland armor irrelevant, thus changing the whole racial balance. While I agree that some kind of benefit should be added to metal armor, it shouldn't be the same as Woodland, especially since the possibility to add higher resists or HCI/DCI on Woodland comes with severe limitations already (elf-only, randomness of heartwood, high failure rate).

A better approach would be to add to metal armor in addition to the specific resists some other mods with enhancement, the same way that Woodland currently works, but with different Mods, especially SA ones such as Eaters:
Dull Copper: +100 Durability, Lower Requirements 50% (Same as currently Shadow)
Shadow: 6% Cold Eater
Copper: 6% Energy Eater
Bronze: 6% Fire Eater
Golden: 40 Luck, Lower Requirements 30% (Same as now)
Agapite: 6% Kinetic Eater
Verite: 6% Poison Eater
Valorite : 3% Damage Eater

Stone armor could work the same way, but with slightly higher values (considering it is Garg only, that there are less varieties and that granite is harder to obtain in bulk)

Leaf Armor could be enhanced with the following:
Spined: 40 Luck (Same as now), Casting Focus 1%
Horned: 20 Luck, Casting Focus 2%
Barbed: Casting Focus 3%

And something similar could be done with Studded & Hide (which are not meddable)

 

[Shakkara]

Colored metal should give more resist points and come with free properties on both weapons and armor.

It's silly that stone and wood give much more resist points than Valorite for example.

 

[Wizal the Fox]

It's silly that stone and wood give much more resist points than Valorite for example.

Stone material property is currently exactly the same as metal. It is the stone base that is different since it's garg (with more base resists on 4 parts and less on 2). Stone is actually even more penalized than metal because the colored granite is much more difficult to obtain in large qties than colored ingots.

Woodland has the same total base as other types, it is the special woods that add more resists and extra properties, but this comes with several downs: it is elf-only, requires bark fragments, special heartwood properties are random, and enhancing has a very high failure rate.

Again, metal armor should work the same as woodland but with different properties (such as Eaters), but still less resists than wood or it would affect the racial balance.

 

[BeaIank]

I am all for making every armor medable and getting rid of the mage armor property if only to see more varieties of armors being worn.

I am growing tired of seeing leather everywhere to the point that I decided to train a crafter/imbuer just to give my archer decent studded armor and my fighter a nice plate or chain mail. She is wearing plate as well, because it looks good.

If they don't want to change resists or add other properties to make metal armor worthwhile, fine, but get rid of that non-medable madness at once.

 

[Eyrothath]

Okay, so why don't we put "mage armor" on all platemail, making everything medable and removing the mage armor property.. Just make it weigh a lot more than leather, or perhaps give you some sort of -int or dex, making it so mages won't want to wear it, but warriors still could? Or perhaps it could slow down a mages casting when they try to use magery.. Something along those lines.. Give warrior characters a reason to use PLATE and mages a reason to wear leather..

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Colored metal should give more resist points and come with free properties on both weapons and armor.

It's silly that stone and wood give much more resist points than Valorite for example.

Neither valorite, nor dragon leather, nor enchanted elven wood armor actually exist, hence we don't really have much of a framework for guessing what "silly" would be.

Realism in fantasy is a difficult concept.

Too little realism and fantasy becomes mere fairy tale.

Too much of it and it's no longer fantasy and, given how our often scholars' views of our medieval past change, 'realism' may not even be terribly realistic. (Some examples. Scholars seem to have largely given up the idea that the Crusades were primarily about territory, trade routes, and plunder, but that view held sway for decades. Scholars have given up the idea that medieval sword-fighting had little in the way of tactics. I've read contradictory things about even something as factual as what samurai armor was made out of. Most relevant for us today, they have told us that plate was actually lighter and more flexible than chain. So much for the realism of the old dex penalties.)

In this case I'd submit that we are dealing with enough materials that don't exist in real life, and working from assumptions about how medieval combat worked that scholars have dismissed or questioned, to render realism questions about armor questionable.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Some reading I've been doing over the course of the last couple of years, about RL European Knights and their Asian counterparts (Samurai in Japan; Youxia in China; some Indian Hindu Paladins the name of which I can't recall; to a lesser degree these elite Celt warriors the name of which I also can't recall; etc.) made me think about the debates represented in this thread.

My reading about RL warriors of the middle ages and antiquity made me realize something important.

Armor grows out of the need to protect against weapons and fight effectively while wearing it. Plate armor, in addition to protecting better than Chain Mail, some scholars have said was actually lighter and allowed for more freedom of motion than Chain was. (So much for the worse dex penalty I recall Plate having.)

But eventually arrows, pikes, and then finally guns appeared, plate was no longer as useful and it slowly died out. Though Plate was never as heavy or cumbersome as some think (most scholars appear to agree that cranes hoisting knights onto their horses were mostly a myth), it wasn't light either; there's a story about how the King of Hungary died during a Muslim invasion of his country because he fell off his horse in his plate armor and drowned in a comparatively shallow river.

So basically once they could stop wearing that stuff, once it didn't matter as much anymore? They stopped wearing it. Maybe a breastplate to prevent an accidental death from a glancing blow and for looks.

Now, what do we have in UO? Firstly we have magic; often about as much firepower as a primitive gun, sometimes more. Secondly we have materials to make weapons and armor that are way different than anything any RL crafter of the Middle Ages or Renaissance had to work with. And thirdly we have things like dragon teeth to contend with. Lots of other differences but those will surely do as examples.

The upshot is.....Why shouldn't leather and plate be equivalent in such an environment? It's just too different from RL to draw comparisons. Who is to say magically Imbued Plate made from materials that metals that don't really exist (the only hits I got in a Google search for "Valorite" were related to UO) would be any better or any worse than magically Imbued Leather armor made from leathers that don't exist (as there are no dragons IRL)?

And who is to say that in such an environment, some warriors just wouldn't prefer plate and some prefer leather? Who is to say it wouldn't come down to personal preference and aesthetics?

Those Hindu Paladins I mentioned early on in this post? They would, one source says, ride into battle on chariots.....Stark naked. Ditto for a similar group of Celt warriors; naked chariot riders. They chose to not wear armor at all. And this was IRL.

Add to this that not everyone who knows about Crafting agrees that Leather really is superior to Plate in UO; the last few threads on this issue have shown an enormous amount of disagreement on that point.

I'll almost always, I think, support ways to customize the look of our characters, for example converting an artifact to another item in the same equipment slot. (Mace and Shield Glasses to Plate Helm or Norse Helm, to look more Knight-like, would be the best example for present purposes.)

But reading about how this stuff worked IRL has convinced me that the Leather/Plate issue in UO is, by itself, just really no issue at all. What we have currently is perfectly logical for the unique, most definitely fantastical circumstances our characters find themselves in. And thanks to Imbuing you can have an awesome plate suit anyway; there's a thread someplace about an all-plate Sampire suit, for example.

-Galen's player

 

[grig_since98]

Galen brings up a good point, in that realism in armor is difficult as not everyone agrees on what is real in RL. For a long time, much of the "scholarship" of the time period in question was little more than often unreasonable assumptions of writers influenced by "enlightenment" thought, which generally viewed all things medieval in a negative light.

Somewhat tangential but still interesting is that apparently a lot of late period full plate was completely specialized for tournament; Essentially, it had become a ruinously expensive piece of high tech sporting equipment.

Realism aside, there needs to be something to differentiate types of armor while making them all optimal for different situations, even if it isn't entirely rational. Has combining higher resist caps with a fc/fcr penalty or a meditation skill penalty ( as a replacement for mage armor) for plate and to a lesser degree other non medables been considered?

 

[Aurelius]

Ditto for a similar group of Celt warriors; naked chariot riders. They chose to not wear armor at all. And this was IRL.

Well yes... then look at their casualty rates against disciplined, armoured troops and consider whether their 'choice' came from cultural preference, or availability of technologies and options - neither of which truly hold in UO.

 

[Mirt]

Armor in the middle ages and even in the classical period was more about cost and materials available. Why in Japan did they not have metal plate? Well take a look at the amount of iron ore coming out of Japan. Japan doesn't have an abundant amount of iron ore. Celts did not have the advancements in metallurgy necessary to forge complicated metal armor and iron mining in Britain was very limited until the steam engine due to the low water table. Forms of plate were used in the Indian subcontinent but military affairs were given less of a priority and much of those occurred after the crossbow. Asian armies tended to be large and the open plains tended to promote larger armies of fast moving cavalry where the emphasis was on siege warfare. The plate armor weighs about as much as a modern combat load (without pack) and was as well distributed. Is it heavy heck yes. Ask anyone that has ever done a dismounted patrol, is it going to slow you down that much, not really. That being said all the belief that leather was ever used as armor is completely false. It was believed to be used in the classical period from looking at Roman statues. When they looked closer they realized that it was scale that rain had eroded down. For a leather armor to provide any protection it would need to be cured so hard as to immovable providing much less range of movement then plate. That being said there should be some advantages that give plate a boost even if it’s only removing the disadvantages. There certainly shouldn't be the largest base resist for studded leather armor.

 

[Herman]

Okay, so why don't we put "mage armor" on all platemail, making everything medable and removing the mage armor property.. Just make it weigh a lot more than leather, or perhaps give you some sort of -int or dex, making it so mages won't want to wear it, but warriors still could? Or perhaps it could slow down a mages casting when they try to use magery.. Something along those lines.. Give warrior characters a reason to use PLATE and mages a reason to wear leather..

I think that idea could work make all armour medable and give metal a -1 fc penalty