"Ovine Technician"
*chuckles*
*chuckles*
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I'd like to hear more about the Artwork Changes
- Thread starter Eric Ravenwind
- Start date
- Watchers 5
So Grim...
is it you that's sheeplike, or is it us and you're a professional at "handling" our flock ?
wait you're going to tell me it's only because you were responsible for changing the sheep art in the classic client ?
yeaaaa... riiiighttt
C
canary
Guest
Yes.
Finally get around to overhauling paperdolls in the EC.
Or, at the very least, de-'fuzzy' the Legacy paperdolls in the EC. They look blurry. It was a nice addition but it was done poorly.
Ok, so here's and explanation:
So you can think of a pixel as a dot of color that all images are made of.
All the walls and housing tiles that were added when UO first came out was created in a paint program like Photoshop. They were created at a spacific size to fit the technical requirements of the game. These images were made to be something like 44 pixels across (I can't remember off the top of my head, it's still early and I haven't had my coffee yet!). This means that these images look their best when they take up that many pixels on your computer screen. If you zoom into the screen, causing these images to take up more room on the screen than the number of pixels that comprise the image, the computer has to compensate for this in a couple of ways. The first way is by just multiplying the size of image by how much larger the image is being displayed than the images actual size it passes this scale on to the pixels in the image. So instead of a pixel only taking up a single dot, it's now taking up 4 (if you were zoomed in twice as close). This results in big blocky squares of color.
I'll continue this in a bit, coffees on!
OK, so in the other way, the computer tries to make the transitions between the pixels a little softer by introducing an intermediate color. This can lead to images looking blurry.
So what we're doing is instead of re-painting the Legacy tile art assets at a larger size, we're creating new 3D artwork that looks like the Legacy assets. The really, REALLY nice thing about the fact that they will be 3D is that 3D assets are (fairly) resolution independent. Which means that we can render the 3D assets in any resolution (more or less) we want to going forward.
-Grimm
I really can appreciate it when developers git involved (like you're doing) explaining stuff.
Thanks!
So Grim...
is it you that's sheeplike, or is it us and you're a professional at "handling" our flock ?
wait you're going to tell me it's only because you were responsible for changing the sheep art in the classic client ?
yeaaaa... riiiighttt
LOL - Yea, that little change is courtesy of my good friends at Stratics. LOL.
- Grimm
Sometimes we all need that 'Jump to Conclusions' mat!
I actually came to the same erroneous conclusion myself. Looking forward to seeing the new look of things.
K
Kayne
Guest
Holy hell, nice one mr Ovine Technician - or Grimm as you are better known.
thank you so much for what is actually a mass of information about this graphics update, all without giving us any sneaky peeks. Nice one Grimm. Even though I don't use EC I can't wait to actually get a look at what you have done
thank you so much for what is actually a mass of information about this graphics update, all without giving us any sneaky peeks. Nice one Grimm. Even though I don't use EC I can't wait to actually get a look at what you have done
Careful she kills because she cares !!! 
hmm.. an asset is always better than an asshat, granted !
hmm.. an asset is always better than an asshat, granted !
I hear they are warm and sometimes fuzzy.... I lost my sense of smell in the 90's to smoking. It's a good thing too, because I wouldn't be able to live with myself otherwise!Careful she kills because she cares !!!
hmm.. an asset is always better than an asshat, granted !
K
Kayne
Guest
I hear they are warm and sometimes fuzzy.... I lost my sense of smell in the 90's to smoking. It's a good thing too, because I wouldn't be able to live with myself otherwise!
rofl brilliant
For the record, I was referring to the azzhatz! I have no idea if GrimmOmen is warm, fuzzy, pungent or any combination there of....
I like to think he's warm and fuzzy though!
K
Kayne
Guest
For the record, I was referring to the azzhatz! I have no idea if GrimmOmen is warm, fuzzy, pungent or any combination there of....
I like to think he's warm and fuzzy though!
Rofl some more. I knew you meant the azzhatz and not Grimm.Agree though I'd like to think hes warm and fuzzy and not so grim - at least if he is fuzzy he lives up to his sheepish name!
W
Woodsman
Guest
Thanks for posting everything you've posted!
So what kind of resolutions are you all aiming to cover? 1920x1200, 2560x1440, etc.
ROFL. I have no idea how to respond to that!
Agree though I'd like to think hes warm and fuzzy and not so grim - at least if he is fuzzy he lives up to his sheepish name!
Thanks to everyone for the kind words.
-Grimm
...
Is it too early to ask about foliage/plants/flora/trees/etc?
You've stated that you're upgrading the 2d artwork (which works well for me in terms of the objects in the world though I will miss a lot of the KR versions' qualities), how do you plan on handling plants and trees? Will we see differentiated leaves again or will it just be higher resolution versions of the 2d plants (which IMO compared to KR look wilted, less distinct and less vibrant overall)?
Is it too early to ask about foliage/plants/flora/trees/etc?
You've stated that you're upgrading the 2d artwork (which works well for me in terms of the objects in the world though I will miss a lot of the KR versions' qualities), how do you plan on handling plants and trees? Will we see differentiated leaves again or will it just be higher resolution versions of the 2d plants (which IMO compared to KR look wilted, less distinct and less vibrant overall)?
Well, plants and trees are definitely on the list of to do's. My goal is to use as much stuff from UOKR as possible and where appropriate. I really can't say what they (trees, etc.) will look like until I get into them, but I would really like to keep the level of detail that those assets had.
-Grimm
Speaking of terrain tiles. any plans for water? I mean it looks good now but in a moving boat it looks you are riding on a sheet of glass on top of the water. Or is that more of a ship mobile redesign to allow the ship to seem as if it were actually interacting with the water?
Grimm,
Is there an ETA on any of this yet?
Is there an ETA on any of this yet?
K
Kayne
Guest
I didn't start that thread of conversation however I'm sure behind your sheepish ways (sorry grimm) you are just as human as the rest of us.
Seriously though thanks again for the info.
Will those things be optional?
Don't get me wrong, I liked most of the KR graphics (except the items), but I fear many of the recent converts from CC would be taken aback if new graphics are forced on them.
So in order to get as many people as possible playing this great client, I'd advise making all these new graphics optional.
I have to ask, was that intentional?
Our (art) goal is just a cosmetic update, I'm unsure that this will have any impact on the things you mentioned.
- Grimm
*phew* well, that's is a load off my mind. To remove the last remnants of doubt, you should ask that on the next meeting, maybe?!
Will this update fix this issue: http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-enhanced-client-discussion/210069-ec-client-misaligned-tiles.html
I fail to see the importance of giving a cosmetic update to tiles... in a game that requires so many fixes and has an incomplete enhanced client that dosen't work for most people...
I mean Grimm, I'm happy for you and all, I mean its a fun job and I don't mean to act all jealous... but it makes no sense.
Do you realise how it sounds ?
I mean Grimm, I'm happy for you and all, I mean its a fun job and I don't mean to act all jealous... but it makes no sense.
Do you realise how it sounds ?
You're the only Dev who takes the time to talk to us... you need to make full phrases and know about those major bugs... I get affected daily by this bug... that reply sends a very unprofessional message to me.
Those aren't your google + friends?Will this update fix this issue: http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-enhanced-client-discussion/210069-ec-client-misaligned-tiles.html
F
Follower of FSM
Guest
Oh dear god shut up! This is a topic about ARTWORK. He is on the ART team. He isn't posting in this topic about bugs and broken things.
huh ?
F
Follower of FSM
Guest
Those aren't your google + friends?
Grimm does what is on his agenda of things to do. He I'm sure relays back the feedback he sees when he can but to put on the captains hat that isn't his would be more unprofessional. He is commenting on things he knows of and can speak of.
*goes back to eating her fruit loops*
you have to invoke god to tell me to shut up ?
well... thank dear stranger...
He's the only one posting about ANYTHING... my dear stranger...
and he's woking on something noone really thinks needs work...
there is many more ART bugs and stuff people straight dislike that should be fixed first... and there is no such thing as an art TEAM... unless you consider 2 people a team ?
ah... I knew there was one more coming this morning *pins one liner on wall*
well... thank dear stranger...
He's the only one posting about ANYTHING... my dear stranger...
and he's woking on something noone really thinks needs work...
there is many more ART bugs and stuff people straight dislike that should be fixed first... and there is no such thing as an art TEAM... unless you consider 2 people a team ?
ah... I knew there was one more coming this morning *pins one liner on wall*
K
Kayne
Guest
Ahu unless you are somewhat blinded, the graphics update is being talked about constantly by EC players so actually people do think it needs work.
Part of the EC's problem when it comes to lag, specifically graphcal lag, is due to the poor choices of the Devs. The EC is not 3D, and that's its problem.
The engine the client is made from is 3D, as has been stated before, but UO forces it to tie itself in knots to display 2D animated sprites as if this was 1992. Modern graphics cards weren't designed to do this, they want full on polygonal worlds they only have to skin with textures. While they are capable of pumping out thousands of these skinned polygons, making them move relatively fluidly, adding in flashy particle effects, etc - they choke and sputter with UO because they simply weren't designed with 2D gaming in mind.
The EC would have to be fully 3D (the environment/buildings and all mobiles) to have any hope of taking advantage of the power today's graphics cards offer. Unfortunately, after the visual abortion that was Third Dawn, Im not sure we really want that. (NetDragon is still vaporware!)
The engine the client is made from is 3D, as has been stated before, but UO forces it to tie itself in knots to display 2D animated sprites as if this was 1992. Modern graphics cards weren't designed to do this, they want full on polygonal worlds they only have to skin with textures. While they are capable of pumping out thousands of these skinned polygons, making them move relatively fluidly, adding in flashy particle effects, etc - they choke and sputter with UO because they simply weren't designed with 2D gaming in mind.
The EC would have to be fully 3D (the environment/buildings and all mobiles) to have any hope of taking advantage of the power today's graphics cards offer. Unfortunately, after the visual abortion that was Third Dawn, Im not sure we really want that. (NetDragon is still vaporware!)
Easy there my friend. It's a forum and venting is expected, especially since there's nowhere else to do it. No other way to even have a hope of having your voice heard.
I seem to remember in a previous post in this very thread; Grimm mentioned that while he's working on these new graphics, he's creating a more efficient access system than was in place in KR. Here's the quote:
We're handling this update in pieces, housing tiles and a little terrain work were the first on the list, so you'll be seeing those first. As for how they compare to the UOKR stuff, well the housing stuff doesn't look like the KR stuff. I couldn't even use the UOKR stuff because, well honestly the guy who set those assets up was way better than I was about materials and lighting, and had a far more complicated setup. Since then I've rewritten the entire environment art pipeline so that getting these assets in the game is easier than it ever has been. And I've kept the setup for these assets as simple as possible. I mean, it's already pretty complicated without me adding complex lighting schemes and whatnot. So I'm just trying to keep things simple for future artists.
Is this not the case now Grimm? I sort of read that as being a bit of an enhancement in the EC being able to access your new 3D artwork....
Frustration is starting to bubble up.... I'm certain you can tell.
W
Woodsman
Guest
UO needs to take advantage of displays made in the last 5 years if it wants to attract new players. It's time for UO to get out of the 1990s.
Well, this tread is about hearing more about the Artwork changes, so I'm going to stick to that topic. The graphical updates serve a much larger purpose than just giving players high resolution graphics. Not that that's not a big enough win by itself. But there are some internal wins for doing this as well.
-Grimm
-Grimm
A
AesSedai
Guest
- Glad you said this, 'cause I've been thinking much the same.. and didn't care to express it and feel the need to explain possibilities. Thx Grimm.
K
Kayne
Guest
I can't help but drift off into The eye of the world everytime I see your name AesSedai.
Grimm what are the internal wins you speak of? (i assume they are able to be talked about)
Grimm what are the internal wins you speak of? (i assume they are able to be talked about)
W
Woodsman
Guest
Sorry, wasn't trying to derail.
Very exciting to read everything you've posted though and looking forward to it
I think they'll be huge though. If you are keeping similar styling to some of the classic art, it might even bring some CC users over.
Very exciting to read everything you've posted though and looking forward to it
Yeah exactly... I wasn't even venting... I just want the communication to sound professional, know that I'm not laughed at and that the game I pay AND paid for for a looooong time is not... gah nevermind...
I was just saying you need to know what you are talking about if you are going to mention something, a little list so to speak of things it "could" do.
So at the same time instead of stagnating in communication we'll have something to talk about and maybe new ideas will come up naturally !
The question about the targetting system is a good one, is it too hard to fix the mechanics first, then get back the high res ?
I was just saying you need to know what you are talking about if you are going to mention something, a little list so to speak of things it "could" do.
So at the same time instead of stagnating in communication we'll have something to talk about and maybe new ideas will come up naturally !
The question about the targetting system is a good one, is it too hard to fix the mechanics first, then get back the high res ?
W
Woodsman
Guest
While Grimm is a miracle worker, I don't think he's coding game mechanics. Two different areas.
Yeah... I dunno how I turned into the bogey man in this thread... what I simply meant is that before saying :
I don't think it could affect this...
turn around and ask, send a e-mail to someone who knows...
wait to reply.
Sound professionnal !
Why no comment about no paragon killer pumpkin chests ?
How can you poof chose to opt out of a subject, then jump in here and act like that ?
I wish I had an ego so I could say : well yes guys, I'm taking this personally...
but if we all stop and think we all know this untrue...
I'm just communicating how I would feel if I was a regular customer who wasn't aware of all the skeletons in UO's closet...
This is someone who knows he can : not be careful. Thats the unprofessionnal message I get.
But even Grim knows I'm not after him... or he'd stop replying to me... I'm after a few symptoms of a larger problem that is totally beyond his grasp.
I don't think it could affect this...
turn around and ask, send a e-mail to someone who knows...
wait to reply.
Sound professionnal !
Why no comment about no paragon killer pumpkin chests ?
How can you poof chose to opt out of a subject, then jump in here and act like that ?
I wish I had an ego so I could say : well yes guys, I'm taking this personally...
but if we all stop and think we all know this untrue...
I'm just communicating how I would feel if I was a regular customer who wasn't aware of all the skeletons in UO's closet...
This is someone who knows he can : not be careful. Thats the unprofessionnal message I get.
But even Grim knows I'm not after him... or he'd stop replying to me... I'm after a few symptoms of a larger problem that is totally beyond his grasp.