Humble Pie

[Martyna Zmuir]

I think I've been convinced that the act of humiliation is ok. It works, and it's their call on a tough job, so I guess it's something I should just accept. But what bothers me is the whole "slapstick" thing, as Adol mentioned. I would have preferred something different. Something deeper.

Well at the very least once again your GL EM, Malachi, attempted to actually logically toss in historical references regarding the humiliation.

Some shards EMs just said: 'These pies are filled with the power of HUMILITY!' and left it at that.

Its yet another case of the UO team creating a somewhat awkward scenario and then forcing the EMs to do their best to adapt it.

Which leaves things a little disjointed, as far as game wide lore goes.

This rests solely at Mythic's feet. This was their plotline from the start and they implemented it poorly. So much of it doesn't make sense, and the flow from one plot point to the next is really choppy.

As I've said before, if it wasn't for GL's EMs actually making sense of things by adding backstory and fleshing things out, the whole arc would have been a complete loss.

 

[Basara]

Virtuebane's pride comes before his fall--that's understandable. However, Adol is spot on with his earlier response, in which he defines the virtue of humility in comparison to the act of humiliation.



While Virtuebane seeks an escape due to his pride, humiliation fails to provide us with a virtuous means by which to dispel the evil creature. What if there were no pies at all, and we simply defeated his physical replicas? Wouldn't the loss of his demon-army be enough to trigger his pride? Did we really need the pies?

Like most consumed by pride, they will deflect their failures on those around them, to try to keep their vanity ("it was those lousy minions!" etc.) We had to defeat all his minions to get him to WHERE HE HAD NO ONE ELSE LEFT TO DEFLECT BLAME TO, before he could be humiliated.

 

[G.v.P]

Like most consumed by pride, they will deflect their failures on those around them, to try to keep their vanity ("it was those lousy minions!" etc.) We had to defeat all his minions to get him to WHERE HE HAD NO ONE ELSE LEFT TO DEFLECT BLAME TO, before he could be humiliated.

Virtuebane's army was a part of him. Duplicates, to be exact. The loss of his army should have been enough for Virtuebane to become humbled. The rest was a case of too much pastry.

Your experience might have differed depending on the EM, but on my shard, the EM reacted to the pies the same way at the beginning and the same way at the end. In other words, losing his army wasn't a prerequisite to becoming humbled, just a time constraint.

At the end, the only difference--from a roleplaying stand point--was the sheer quantity of pies thrown at one time. In fact, on Europa, the real Virtuebane was defeated before his army was vanquished, because the event was running too long. But no matter the shard, the act of us humiliating Virtuebane with pies was not a virtuous one.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I think I've been convinced that the act of humiliation is ok. It works, and it's their call on a tough job, so I guess it's something I should just accept. But what bothers me is the whole "slapstick" thing, as Adol mentioned. I would have preferred something different. Something deeper.

Well at the very least once again your GL EM, Malachi, attempted to actually logically toss in historical references regarding the humiliation.

Some shards EMs just said: 'These pies are filled with the power of HUMILITY!' and left it at that.

Its yet another case of the UO team creating a somewhat awkward scenario and then forcing the EMs to do their best to adapt it.

Which leaves things a little disjointed, as far as game wide lore goes.

This rests solely at Mythic's feet. This was their plotline from the start and they implemented it poorly. So much of it doesn't make sense, and the flow from one plot point to the next is really choppy.

As I've said before, if it wasn't for GL's EMs actually making sense of things by adding backstory and fleshing things out, the whole arc would have been a complete loss.

I agree, taking your word for it since I wasn't there for GL's events. But m,y point is that as a game, it just isn't good enough. And it gets worse if the different shards have conflicting basic lore compromises, which is easy to come up with when there's little centric control.

In the old days of Seers, they had to have everything OK'ed beforehand, and if they touched the lore they almost certainly had it rejected. That's how tightly controlled it was. They didn't like it, of course, but it had to be done. And still does, if they want to keep it together.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I agree, taking your word for it since I wasn't there for GL's events. But m,y point is that as a game, it just isn't good enough. And it gets worse if the different shards have conflicting basic lore compromises, which is easy to come up with when there's little centric control.

Still going to lay this at Mythic's feet. They started this arc then allowed it to sputter along with anemic cookie-cutter events. The basic format of the Abyss Housing Quest was recycled into the Treasure of Ricardo Quest. Then the Bane Chosen appeared without much fanfare and we got the unique Bane v. Ophidian war. This too would have been recycled for the Bane v. Meer war, but something nixed it. Then we get no major shard-wide Bane events till December's invasions.

A few EM-led one-off shard-wide events were also interspersed in-between the longer events. (Compassion Sage, Crystal of Duplicity discovery and theft, Queen Dawn's death, Funeral, etc) These were held with shard-specific alterations, and that's a GOOD THING.

GL has different historical details compared to Atlantic, same with Atlantic and Pacific, Pacific to Baja, etc. THIS IS GOOD. While the major historical events transpired in relative similarity, each shard has its own unique spin and flavor.

Without someone at Mythic dedicated to keeping the lore up-to-date and ensuring certain metafictional things are standard, it may be a lost cause. (I refer you to the admission re:Ricardo that Mythic made about the UO bible and fiction writers not bothering to read past fiction)

In the old days of Seers, they had to have everything OK'ed beforehand, and if they touched the lore they almost certainly had it rejected. That's how tightly controlled it was. They didn't like it, of course, but it had to be done. And still does, if they want to keep it together.

EMs have to run things by someone too, presumably Mesanna. It's not as if they've been given carte blanche approval to do whatever they want, but they also aren't being mandated to have all their events revolve around the metafiction. GL is lucky to have the two EMs we do.

Perhaps you should come to some of the events instead of diss them from the sidelines? You might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I agree, taking your word for it since I wasn't there for GL's events. But m,y point is that as a game, it just isn't good enough. And it gets worse if the different shards have conflicting basic lore compromises, which is easy to come up with when there's little centric control.

Still going to lay this at Mythic's feet. They started this arc then allowed it to sputter along with anemic cookie-cutter events. The basic format of the Abyss Housing Quest was recycled into the Treasure of Ricardo Quest. Then the Bane Chosen appeared without much fanfare and we got the unique Bane v. Ophidian war. This too would have been recycled for the Bane v. Meer war, but something nixed it. Then we get no major shard-wide Bane events till December's invasions.

A few EM-led one-off shard-wide events were also interspersed in-between the longer events. (Compassion Sage, Crystal of Duplicity discovery and theft, Queen Dawn's death, Funeral, etc) These were held with shard-specific alterations, and that's a GOOD THING.

GL has different historical details compared to Atlantic, same with Atlantic and Pacific, Pacific to Baja, etc. THIS IS GOOD. While the major historical events transpired in relative similarity, each shard has its own unique spin and flavor.

Without someone at Mythic dedicated to keeping the lore up-to-date and ensuring certain metafictional things are standard, it may be a lost cause. (I refer you to the admission re:Ricardo that Mythic made about the UO bible and fiction writers not bothering to read past fiction)

In the old days of Seers, they had to have everything OK'ed beforehand, and if they touched the lore they almost certainly had it rejected. That's how tightly controlled it was. They didn't like it, of course, but it had to be done. And still does, if they want to keep it together.

EMs have to run things by someone too, presumably Mesanna. It's not as if they've been given carte blanche approval to do whatever they want, but they also aren't being mandated to have all their events revolve around the metafiction. GL is lucky to have the two EMs we do.

Perhaps you should come to some of the events instead of diss them from the sidelines? You might be pleasantly surprised.

I'm not dissing them. It seems to me we're saying the same thing.

 

[Trebr Drab]

And let me add, Martyna, that I've said before that the GL EMs are fantastic.

It's just like this. They did that marvelous thing with the Titans and the Garg brothers. And in one of those books were answers to lore questions that went right along with things I've posted about before. Yet, these answers don't count for UO lore, because it's limited to GL only. At least, as far as I know and what players seem to think about this separation of shards. This doesn't work.

And no, it's not alright to have separate lore, only separate current events (since the shattering). But maybe that's what it is. I don't really know. There's no direction on this from the top. Maybe it's part of the whole mystery, which would be great. But it needs to come together, and maybe that's up to the players. I just don't know. All I'm saying is that it should be held together, and that's what you just said too.

 

[Viquire]

The coolest parts of both this and the last epic story arc were, for me, the unique art assets. I wish the Virtue Bane and the AHH did not have to follow in the wake of the Crimson and Platinum dragons. Munching my characters or not, they were mighty fine to look at.

Good job, Grimm.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

The coolest parts of both this and the last epic story arc were, for me, the unique art assets. I wish the Virtue Bane and the AHH did not have to follow in the wake of the Crimson and Platinum dragons. Munching my characters or not, they were mighty fine to look at.

Good job, Grimm.

Thanks Viquire, much appreciated!

-Grimm