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Guest
Guest
The irony of the contrast between your statement and sig amuses me
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How to fix the economy.. (New Currency)
- Thread starter imported_Velvathos
- Start date
- Watchers 0
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
"Hail: "Read my lips, NEW TAXES"."
Hail yourself and read my lips:
<u>HELL NO </u>
This is UO, not RL.
As I've already stated once in this thread, if you want to pay taxes, then take 10% of your gold and toss it in the nearest trash receptacle. Continue to do this once a month. Talk to your friends and get them to do it too. If they don't laugh you out of whatever building you happen to be standing in, then together you can all make a difference.
Hail yourself and read my lips:
<u>HELL NO </u>
This is UO, not RL.
As I've already stated once in this thread, if you want to pay taxes, then take 10% of your gold and toss it in the nearest trash receptacle. Continue to do this once a month. Talk to your friends and get them to do it too. If they don't laugh you out of whatever building you happen to be standing in, then together you can all make a difference.
S
Sabbath
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
The only way to really help with the prices of things - is leave everything the way it is with gold but introduce platinum where 1 platinum = 100k gold or something. So then you could convert 1million gold into 10 platinum. A jackals collar goes for 50 platinum etc.
That way you can 'fix' the high cost stuff but then when you go to buy regs- they still cost 3gp and you can always convert platinum to gold and back and forth.
[/ QUOTE ]
Did anyone else like this idea? At least in regards to making high dollar transactions more efficient? I guess they could just as easily allow checks to be created in higher denominations (tens of millions).
The only way to really help with the prices of things - is leave everything the way it is with gold but introduce platinum where 1 platinum = 100k gold or something. So then you could convert 1million gold into 10 platinum. A jackals collar goes for 50 platinum etc.
That way you can 'fix' the high cost stuff but then when you go to buy regs- they still cost 3gp and you can always convert platinum to gold and back and forth.
[/ QUOTE ]
Did anyone else like this idea? At least in regards to making high dollar transactions more efficient? I guess they could just as easily allow checks to be created in higher denominations (tens of millions).
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
This is UO, not RL.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd have agreed with you at one time but now we have insurance the UO/RL thing goes out the window. You dont want UO to have RL elements such as this? Stop paying insurance money in UO then.
This is UO, not RL.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd have agreed with you at one time but now we have insurance the UO/RL thing goes out the window. You dont want UO to have RL elements such as this? Stop paying insurance money in UO then.
I
imported_Velvathos
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
The game isn't controlled by anyone but EA/Mythic.
You don't even play it, so what's it matter to you?
Go back to grinding your levels in WoW.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't play WoW, I like some of their ideas though and they have a decent economy going.. They are at least able to maintain their game..
And just because I don't play doesn't mean I don't have a active account..
The game isn't controlled by anyone but EA/Mythic.
You don't even play it, so what's it matter to you?
Go back to grinding your levels in WoW.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't play WoW, I like some of their ideas though and they have a decent economy going.. They are at least able to maintain their game..
And just because I don't play doesn't mean I don't have a active account..
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
This is UO, not RL.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd have agreed with you at one time but now we have insurance the UO/RL thing goes out the window. You dont want UO to have RL elements such as this? Stop paying insurance money in UO then.
[/ QUOTE ]
In RL taxes are used to improve roads, pay for public schools etc.
The suggestion of them being in UO doesn't do any of that, thus, they don't belong.
<blockquote><hr>
This is UO, not RL.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd have agreed with you at one time but now we have insurance the UO/RL thing goes out the window. You dont want UO to have RL elements such as this? Stop paying insurance money in UO then.
[/ QUOTE ]
In RL taxes are used to improve roads, pay for public schools etc.
The suggestion of them being in UO doesn't do any of that, thus, they don't belong.
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
"they have a decent economy going.."
That's only because they're a new game. If they're still around in 10 years their economy will be in the same boat.
That's only because they're a new game. If they're still around in 10 years their economy will be in the same boat.
G
Guest
Guest
This doesn't seem to solve anything, it just allows the imbalances/inflation to continue to grow.
One thing that could be done is to create an NPC auction house, where each day/week/month/year, a silent auction is held for an assortment a Doomlike items and decorations, the bids held in eschew until the end. It should act as a gold sink that adjusts to the amount of free-floating cash out there.
Now, the flip side is whether the game could endure a big desirable gold sink without creating a spike of scripting.
One thing that could be done is to create an NPC auction house, where each day/week/month/year, a silent auction is held for an assortment a Doomlike items and decorations, the bids held in eschew until the end. It should act as a gold sink that adjusts to the amount of free-floating cash out there.
Now, the flip side is whether the game could endure a big desirable gold sink without creating a spike of scripting.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
In RL taxes are used to improve roads, pay for public schools etc.
The suggestion of them being in UO doesn't do any of that, thus, they don't belong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok then. No taxes. Instead a ground rent. We have to pay a fee for vendors so why not for the ground on which we build our houses on? A monthly goldsink.
In RL taxes are used to improve roads, pay for public schools etc.
The suggestion of them being in UO doesn't do any of that, thus, they don't belong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok then. No taxes. Instead a ground rent. We have to pay a fee for vendors so why not for the ground on which we build our houses on? A monthly goldsink.
I
imported_Velvathos
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
This doesn't seem to solve anything, it just allows the imbalances/inflation to continue to grow.
One thing that could be done is to create an NPC auction house, where each day/week/month/year, a silent auction is held for an assortment a Doomlike items and decorations, the bids held in eschew until the end. It should act as a gold sink that adjusts to the amount of free-floating cash out there.
Now, the flip side is whether the game could endure a big desirable gold sink without creating a spike of scripting.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd rather a daily auction house people can sell items on as a means to trade rather than spamming at the Luna bank for hours..
This doesn't seem to solve anything, it just allows the imbalances/inflation to continue to grow.
One thing that could be done is to create an NPC auction house, where each day/week/month/year, a silent auction is held for an assortment a Doomlike items and decorations, the bids held in eschew until the end. It should act as a gold sink that adjusts to the amount of free-floating cash out there.
Now, the flip side is whether the game could endure a big desirable gold sink without creating a spike of scripting.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd rather a daily auction house people can sell items on as a means to trade rather than spamming at the Luna bank for hours..
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
We have to pay a fee for vendors so why not for the ground on which we build our houses on?
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe that's called a subscription.
We have to pay a fee for vendors so why not for the ground on which we build our houses on?
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe that's called a subscription.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
In RL taxes are used to improve roads, pay for public schools etc.
The suggestion of them being in UO doesn't do any of that, thus, they don't belong.
[/ QUOTE ]
So taxes dont fit but insurance does? How exactly? In RL the comined premiums pool to payout when needed, with the insurer making a profit. In UO there is no cost to replacing an item so how do you explain that one away with your RL scenario?
In RL taxes are used to improve roads, pay for public schools etc.
The suggestion of them being in UO doesn't do any of that, thus, they don't belong.
[/ QUOTE ]
So taxes dont fit but insurance does? How exactly? In RL the comined premiums pool to payout when needed, with the insurer making a profit. In UO there is no cost to replacing an item so how do you explain that one away with your RL scenario?
I
imported_Velvathos
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
In RL taxes are used to improve roads, pay for public schools etc.
The suggestion of them being in UO doesn't do any of that, thus, they don't belong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok then. No taxes. Instead a ground rent. We have to pay a fee for vendors so why not for the ground on which we build our houses on? A monthly goldsink.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, because it doesn't do anything.... You pay for the house, its yours, you don't rent it out..... For example, If you had to pay the innkeeper like 300 gold to logout in an inn, that would make sense.. If you had to pay the blacksmith to use their forge.. That would make sense, but when you own something as a house or a guild, there should be no tax on it.....
Connor is right though, taxes are used to improve things, which don't happen in UO.. Gold sinks like that should not be forced upon us...
<blockquote><hr>
In RL taxes are used to improve roads, pay for public schools etc.
The suggestion of them being in UO doesn't do any of that, thus, they don't belong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok then. No taxes. Instead a ground rent. We have to pay a fee for vendors so why not for the ground on which we build our houses on? A monthly goldsink.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, because it doesn't do anything.... You pay for the house, its yours, you don't rent it out..... For example, If you had to pay the innkeeper like 300 gold to logout in an inn, that would make sense.. If you had to pay the blacksmith to use their forge.. That would make sense, but when you own something as a house or a guild, there should be no tax on it.....
Connor is right though, taxes are used to improve things, which don't happen in UO.. Gold sinks like that should not be forced upon us...
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I believe that's called a subscription.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pedantic to say the least, but you got my meaning.
I believe that's called a subscription.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pedantic to say the least, but you got my meaning.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I'd rather a daily auction house people can sell items on as a means to trade rather than spamming at the Luna bank for hours..
[/ QUOTE ]
Whether or not I'd like to see that too, a player-to-player auction house isn't a gold sink - just a gold shuffler.
I'd rather a daily auction house people can sell items on as a means to trade rather than spamming at the Luna bank for hours..
[/ QUOTE ]
Whether or not I'd like to see that too, a player-to-player auction house isn't a gold sink - just a gold shuffler.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Whether or not I'd like to see that too, a player-to-player auction house isn't a gold sink - just a gold shuffler.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless of course there is a % fee on the sell price that the auction house keeps...
Whether or not I'd like to see that too, a player-to-player auction house isn't a gold sink - just a gold shuffler.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless of course there is a % fee on the sell price that the auction house keeps...
G
Guest
Guest
...
No taxes. Instead a ground rent. ... A monthly goldsink.
Taxes, rent, regardless what you call it, it's still the same thing.
And if you're SO in favor of it, noone is stopping from doing it yourself for your own houses voluntarily by tossing whatever percentage of gold you consider "fair" into the garbage barrel.
Oddly enough I have YET to see anyone doing this voluntarily while they "suggest" that everyone else do it.
No taxes. Instead a ground rent. ... A monthly goldsink.
Taxes, rent, regardless what you call it, it's still the same thing.
And if you're SO in favor of it, noone is stopping from doing it yourself for your own houses voluntarily by tossing whatever percentage of gold you consider "fair" into the garbage barrel.
Oddly enough I have YET to see anyone doing this voluntarily while they "suggest" that everyone else do it.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
And if you're SO in favor of it, noone is stopping from doing it yourself for your own houses voluntarily by tossing whatever percentage of gold you consider "fair" into the garbage barrel.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oldest, most pointless and least original comeback to this subject ever.
Many dont believe in insurance ... you suppose they all run around unisured?
Many believe crafter made armour is the way the game should be. You suppose they all run around in GM platemail?
etc etc.
And if you're SO in favor of it, noone is stopping from doing it yourself for your own houses voluntarily by tossing whatever percentage of gold you consider "fair" into the garbage barrel.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oldest, most pointless and least original comeback to this subject ever.
Many dont believe in insurance ... you suppose they all run around unisured?
Many believe crafter made armour is the way the game should be. You suppose they all run around in GM platemail?
etc etc.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Pedantic to say the least, but you got my meaning.
[/ QUOTE ]
I fear I may not have been clear on mine ... houses are sort of an elemental resource of the account. Charging in-game gold on top of your subscription would mean I'd have to close accounts (because I just simply don't generate much gold puttering about).
(now, if you suggested taxable decorative upgrades to a house, like an extra story on top ... then I would accept it, but I would be surprised if they were effective ... people tend to get rich by wanting a return on their investment)
Pedantic to say the least, but you got my meaning.
[/ QUOTE ]
I fear I may not have been clear on mine ... houses are sort of an elemental resource of the account. Charging in-game gold on top of your subscription would mean I'd have to close accounts (because I just simply don't generate much gold puttering about).
(now, if you suggested taxable decorative upgrades to a house, like an extra story on top ... then I would accept it, but I would be surprised if they were effective ... people tend to get rich by wanting a return on their investment)
I
imported_Velvathos
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
And if you're SO in favor of it, noone is stopping from doing it yourself for your own houses voluntarily by tossing whatever percentage of gold you consider "fair" into the garbage barrel.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oldestmost pointless and least original comeback to this subject ever.
Many dont believe in insurance ... you suppose they all run around unisured?
Many believe crafter made armour is the way the game should be. You suppose they all run around in GM platemail?
etc etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
I run around in GM platemail without insurance on quite a few of my RP characters on Catskills, Pacific and Europa.... It is pretty awesome on Europa cause every PvP-RP guild at war with each other does it....
<blockquote><hr>
And if you're SO in favor of it, noone is stopping from doing it yourself for your own houses voluntarily by tossing whatever percentage of gold you consider "fair" into the garbage barrel.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oldestmost pointless and least original comeback to this subject ever.
Many dont believe in insurance ... you suppose they all run around unisured?
Many believe crafter made armour is the way the game should be. You suppose they all run around in GM platemail?
etc etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
I run around in GM platemail without insurance on quite a few of my RP characters on Catskills, Pacific and Europa.... It is pretty awesome on Europa cause every PvP-RP guild at war with each other does it....
G
Guest
Guest
What do you think "too much gold" is?
I've no idea how much the average account in this game has.
I've no idea how much the average account in this game has.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Unless of course there is a % fee on the sell price that the auction house keeps...
[/ QUOTE ]
true enough (although its then just another form of vendor - which people seem to believe has not been successful as a gold sink so far)
Unless of course there is a % fee on the sell price that the auction house keeps...
[/ QUOTE ]
true enough (although its then just another form of vendor - which people seem to believe has not been successful as a gold sink so far)
G
Guest
Guest
...
Neiter of your examples are done by people trying to FORCE other people into doing something they refuse to do voluntarily.
Much the same thing as Al Gore flying around in a private jet with a house that uses 20x the energy cost of the average home telling US that we're horrible people for driving our cars to work and home every day.
It's hypocrisy and personally, I reject the argument when the system to do EXACTLY what the house tax proponents want to do is already in game for them to do it themselves.
As for house taxes themselves... when you can think of a few house addons that have a monthly cost to maintain, THEN we'll talk. But I'm SOLIDLY against an extra payment just to maintain the status quo.
Neiter of your examples are done by people trying to FORCE other people into doing something they refuse to do voluntarily.
Much the same thing as Al Gore flying around in a private jet with a house that uses 20x the energy cost of the average home telling US that we're horrible people for driving our cars to work and home every day.
It's hypocrisy and personally, I reject the argument when the system to do EXACTLY what the house tax proponents want to do is already in game for them to do it themselves.
As for house taxes themselves... when you can think of a few house addons that have a monthly cost to maintain, THEN we'll talk. But I'm SOLIDLY against an extra payment just to maintain the status quo.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
In RL taxes are used to improve roads, pay for public schools etc.
[/ QUOTE ] So taxes dont fit but insurance does? How exactly?
[/ QUOTE ]
Insurance does provide a service, a very valuable one at that, for the character. The roads of UO on the other hand do not disappear if they are not paid for.
<blockquote><hr>
In RL taxes are used to improve roads, pay for public schools etc.
[/ QUOTE ] So taxes dont fit but insurance does? How exactly?
[/ QUOTE ]
Insurance does provide a service, a very valuable one at that, for the character. The roads of UO on the other hand do not disappear if they are not paid for.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I run around in GM platemail without insurance on quite a few of my RP characters on Catskills, Pacific and Europa.... It is pretty awesome on Europa cause every PvP-RP guild at war with each other does it....
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, but if it was the principle of insurance or the need for arti level weapons and armour that bothered you then you would be running around uninsured and GM'd up on ALL your characters......according to Der-mott.
I run around in GM platemail without insurance on quite a few of my RP characters on Catskills, Pacific and Europa.... It is pretty awesome on Europa cause every PvP-RP guild at war with each other does it....
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, but if it was the principle of insurance or the need for arti level weapons and armour that bothered you then you would be running around uninsured and GM'd up on ALL your characters......according to Der-mott.
G
Guest
Guest
...
Some economy tweak ideas:
1. House customization: Anything over 5 tiles' worth of change should cost gold through the house customization system. Right now,the ONLY cost after the initial cost for customizing a house is if you ADD tiles to the existing count. If you remove tiles you actually get a refund. Instead, allow for a 5 tile change to be "free" in the case of a few mistakenly placed tiles that have to be tweaked. Removing tiles should NOT return gold, and adding any tiles or changing beyond 5 existing tiles should cost the appropriate amount of gold.
2. Stablemaster: Hire a stable master for your house at a monthly cost. Would give standard stable access.
3. Lower gold amounts in PvM loot. Try a 10-25% reduction across the board. We've already seen the effects of removing the Bag of Sending as a usable method to transfer gold and we have seen other steps to lower the incoming quantities of higher end resources.
Just a few ideas to start
Some economy tweak ideas:
1. House customization: Anything over 5 tiles' worth of change should cost gold through the house customization system. Right now,the ONLY cost after the initial cost for customizing a house is if you ADD tiles to the existing count. If you remove tiles you actually get a refund. Instead, allow for a 5 tile change to be "free" in the case of a few mistakenly placed tiles that have to be tweaked. Removing tiles should NOT return gold, and adding any tiles or changing beyond 5 existing tiles should cost the appropriate amount of gold.
2. Stablemaster: Hire a stable master for your house at a monthly cost. Would give standard stable access.
3. Lower gold amounts in PvM loot. Try a 10-25% reduction across the board. We've already seen the effects of removing the Bag of Sending as a usable method to transfer gold and we have seen other steps to lower the incoming quantities of higher end resources.
Just a few ideas to start
I
imported_Velvathos
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
...
Some economy tweak ideas:
1. House customization: Anything over 5 tiles' worth of change should cost gold through the house customization system. Right now,the ONLY cost after the initial cost for customizing a house is if you ADD tiles to the existing count. If you remove tiles you actually get a refund. Instead, allow for a 5 tile change to be "free" in the case of a few mistakenly placed tiles that have to be tweaked. Removing tiles should NOT return gold, and adding any tiles or changing beyond 5 existing tiles should cost the appropriate amount of gold.
2. Stablemaster: Hire a stable master for your house at a monthly cost. Would give standard stable access.
3. Lower gold amounts in PvM loot. Try a 10-25% reduction across the board. We've already seen the effects of removing the Bag of Sending as a usable method to transfer gold and we have seen other steps to lower the incoming quantities of higher end resources.
Just a few ideas to start
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with 2 and 3 but not the first one, as roleplayers, we're constantly customizing our houses and it takes WEEKS to do and we have to get everything just perfect in the right amount of time, we spend more gold on our houses than the average person as it is..
...
Some economy tweak ideas:
1. House customization: Anything over 5 tiles' worth of change should cost gold through the house customization system. Right now,the ONLY cost after the initial cost for customizing a house is if you ADD tiles to the existing count. If you remove tiles you actually get a refund. Instead, allow for a 5 tile change to be "free" in the case of a few mistakenly placed tiles that have to be tweaked. Removing tiles should NOT return gold, and adding any tiles or changing beyond 5 existing tiles should cost the appropriate amount of gold.
2. Stablemaster: Hire a stable master for your house at a monthly cost. Would give standard stable access.
3. Lower gold amounts in PvM loot. Try a 10-25% reduction across the board. We've already seen the effects of removing the Bag of Sending as a usable method to transfer gold and we have seen other steps to lower the incoming quantities of higher end resources.
Just a few ideas to start
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with 2 and 3 but not the first one, as roleplayers, we're constantly customizing our houses and it takes WEEKS to do and we have to get everything just perfect in the right amount of time, we spend more gold on our houses than the average person as it is..
G
Guest
Guest
1. I worry about anything that gets in the way of creativity - it's been a long time since my last renovation, but I find its something that takes me several weeks of puttering around - and my results still aren't much better than a Borg cube.
2. I like. (also, rentable extra stable slots)
3. Hang on a second! I don't think gold input for non-scripting players is the problem. Most players have nooo problem finding a gold sink - Luna could eat all the gold I've earned in all my years in no time flat. The problem is that I see is that in the course of my day-to-day play, I gain little that the wealthy want in return (give or take a stuffy dwagon), nor do I have the merchant skills to get top coin for what I do sell. So my gold tends to flow into Luna (*) and not out of it.
(* - "Luna" seems to have become the defacto term for describing where all wealth ends up, but I feel compelled to note that I have only a very sketchy idea of the true wealth flows in the game and don't want to slander a nice city of paladins)
2. I like. (also, rentable extra stable slots)
3. Hang on a second! I don't think gold input for non-scripting players is the problem. Most players have nooo problem finding a gold sink - Luna could eat all the gold I've earned in all my years in no time flat. The problem is that I see is that in the course of my day-to-day play, I gain little that the wealthy want in return (give or take a stuffy dwagon), nor do I have the merchant skills to get top coin for what I do sell. So my gold tends to flow into Luna (*) and not out of it.
(* - "Luna" seems to have become the defacto term for describing where all wealth ends up, but I feel compelled to note that I have only a very sketchy idea of the true wealth flows in the game and don't want to slander a nice city of paladins)
G
Guest
Guest
...
In regards to #3, simply lowering the gold may not be the best thing, I'll agree. I was wanting to do more ideas, but was losing the train of thought.
However I can go into a bit more detail on this one...
The problem with PvM right now is that it is too easy even without scripting to obtain a LOT of gold in a small amount of time. If you know what else other than gold to loot, it gets even faster.
So I want to go back to a different route and say that the idea of #3 may not be to simply lower the gold drops themselves, but to SLOW DOWN the rate at which players can kill monsters in PvM.
Cases in point:
Speed + loot: Right now, I can make a TON of gold VERY fast ingame in PvM with little to no risk at all in an area with a high spawn rate of a single monster type. With a Gargoyle Slayer and Enemy of One, I can hit the mountain pass just south of Compassion in Ilshenar and one-hit gargoyles all day (3 or 4 hits on the Paragons) and loot the gold and gems. A Bag of Sending isn't even needed here as I'm a mere 2 or 3 screens' worth of running from the bank and a vendor to dump the gems. If I'm going for "gold farming", this will usually be one of my first stops.
Contrast with:
Slowness + Interest: I keep coming back to this because I thought it was very enjoyable for me. The Rats in the sewers. Yes they are low level creatures, however the amount of hit points they had was quite large, so that even with a Vermin Slayer talisman, a heavy hitting weapon and Enemy of One, it still took several hits to drop even the small sewer rats. The loot on them was minimal, but interesting (the rat coins).
In another thread, people are discussing the general lowering of loot levels (particularly item count) on monsters.
Before AOS, you did not always get a magic item off of a creature. I remember way back when, when you would kill something like an orc or an ogre, you would get a backpack (sometimes nested backpacks) which you would dig through until you came across a bit of gold, usually a loaf of bread, and if lucky an item of some sort. The item was not always a "keeper", but it was what you got.
But we've entered a spiral in which the item system is so cumbersome that in order to find a keeper, the devs have had to allow for a greater number of drops and thus rolls on the charts to generate a keepable item. They've also created a situation in which it is so easy for vets to gain gold in PvM that they've had to keep gold and other drops higher just to give newer players (the existence of which is a debate for another thread) a chance to be able to catch up.
I remember when it used to take a few weeks to gather enough gold for a small or medium sized house (much less a tower or bigger), now people bring those amounts in on an hourly basis (if not faster).
While SOME people believe it's due to the existence of the Trammel ruleset allowing people to stay out fighting, in reality, it's because it's simply too fast to kill most of the income generating creatures. The changes to Dread Spiders and the addition of greater dragons were a nod at this problem, but it's something that needs to be addressed in the game as a whole.
Creature HP needs to be raised, damage needs to be lowered, and really ,loot quantity across the board needs a hard looking at and revamp.
So the idea behind #3 is not quite as basic as I made it to be, but as I said, I was really kind of losing the ideas behind the post to begin with, but didn't want to leave a few possible answers out of the mix.
In regards to #3, simply lowering the gold may not be the best thing, I'll agree. I was wanting to do more ideas, but was losing the train of thought.
However I can go into a bit more detail on this one...
The problem with PvM right now is that it is too easy even without scripting to obtain a LOT of gold in a small amount of time. If you know what else other than gold to loot, it gets even faster.
So I want to go back to a different route and say that the idea of #3 may not be to simply lower the gold drops themselves, but to SLOW DOWN the rate at which players can kill monsters in PvM.
Cases in point:
Speed + loot: Right now, I can make a TON of gold VERY fast ingame in PvM with little to no risk at all in an area with a high spawn rate of a single monster type. With a Gargoyle Slayer and Enemy of One, I can hit the mountain pass just south of Compassion in Ilshenar and one-hit gargoyles all day (3 or 4 hits on the Paragons) and loot the gold and gems. A Bag of Sending isn't even needed here as I'm a mere 2 or 3 screens' worth of running from the bank and a vendor to dump the gems. If I'm going for "gold farming", this will usually be one of my first stops.
Contrast with:
Slowness + Interest: I keep coming back to this because I thought it was very enjoyable for me. The Rats in the sewers. Yes they are low level creatures, however the amount of hit points they had was quite large, so that even with a Vermin Slayer talisman, a heavy hitting weapon and Enemy of One, it still took several hits to drop even the small sewer rats. The loot on them was minimal, but interesting (the rat coins).
In another thread, people are discussing the general lowering of loot levels (particularly item count) on monsters.
Before AOS, you did not always get a magic item off of a creature. I remember way back when, when you would kill something like an orc or an ogre, you would get a backpack (sometimes nested backpacks) which you would dig through until you came across a bit of gold, usually a loaf of bread, and if lucky an item of some sort. The item was not always a "keeper", but it was what you got.
But we've entered a spiral in which the item system is so cumbersome that in order to find a keeper, the devs have had to allow for a greater number of drops and thus rolls on the charts to generate a keepable item. They've also created a situation in which it is so easy for vets to gain gold in PvM that they've had to keep gold and other drops higher just to give newer players (the existence of which is a debate for another thread) a chance to be able to catch up.
I remember when it used to take a few weeks to gather enough gold for a small or medium sized house (much less a tower or bigger), now people bring those amounts in on an hourly basis (if not faster).
While SOME people believe it's due to the existence of the Trammel ruleset allowing people to stay out fighting, in reality, it's because it's simply too fast to kill most of the income generating creatures. The changes to Dread Spiders and the addition of greater dragons were a nod at this problem, but it's something that needs to be addressed in the game as a whole.
Creature HP needs to be raised, damage needs to be lowered, and really ,loot quantity across the board needs a hard looking at and revamp.
So the idea behind #3 is not quite as basic as I made it to be, but as I said, I was really kind of losing the ideas behind the post to begin with, but didn't want to leave a few possible answers out of the mix.
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Guest
Guest
Maplestone, I'm just replying to you because it's the easiest place to click.
Anyway, no taxes, no investigations of *everyone* who has alot of gold.
I hate ideas that penalize the successful populace.
Anyway, no taxes, no investigations of *everyone* who has alot of gold.
I hate ideas that penalize the successful populace.
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
That still won't work.
As long as there is an unlimited amount of gold coming into the game with none or very little going out, there isn't, and will never be, an economy.
As long as there is an unlimited amount of gold coming into the game with none or very little going out, there isn't, and will never be, an economy.
I
imported_Velvathos
Guest
How about some changes to mining? Change it so making armor takes up less ingots.. The price of ingots might go down..... Changes like that peraphs?
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...
Oh I agree there. I'm all for good, useful, attractive gold sinks, however there is still ab it of work they can do to slow down the faucet side as well, and it can be done in such a way that improves PvM on the whole by slowing it down some and retweaking loot in general to be less quantity in favor of more quality/utility.
But just tweaking the faucet side alone isn't going to solve the problem. The sink side must be improved as well, however it must be done with three key requirements:
1. A gold sink MUST be voluntary. In a game situation, it's more enjoyable to CHOOSE to spend ingame money than it is to be forced to pay it.
2. It must be desirable. People have to WANT to be involved in the gold sink. Case in point of the issues with this is the upcoming turn-in. People want to get rid of a lot of event items, but they are disappointed with the exchanges that will be made. This destroys the desirability. And of course a good portion of desirability lies in...
3. What is gained through the sink must have Utility. The items, services, or whatever gained through a gold sink, turn in or whatever system must be of use to the player getting the item.
Oh I agree there. I'm all for good, useful, attractive gold sinks, however there is still ab it of work they can do to slow down the faucet side as well, and it can be done in such a way that improves PvM on the whole by slowing it down some and retweaking loot in general to be less quantity in favor of more quality/utility.
But just tweaking the faucet side alone isn't going to solve the problem. The sink side must be improved as well, however it must be done with three key requirements:
1. A gold sink MUST be voluntary. In a game situation, it's more enjoyable to CHOOSE to spend ingame money than it is to be forced to pay it.
2. It must be desirable. People have to WANT to be involved in the gold sink. Case in point of the issues with this is the upcoming turn-in. People want to get rid of a lot of event items, but they are disappointed with the exchanges that will be made. This destroys the desirability. And of course a good portion of desirability lies in...
3. What is gained through the sink must have Utility. The items, services, or whatever gained through a gold sink, turn in or whatever system must be of use to the player getting the item.
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Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
The economy is fine. There is nothing to spend the gold on.
[/ QUOTE ]
?
If there is nothing to spend the gold on then the economy is NOT fine. Thats what an economy is. Currency is just the means by which economic exchanges occur.
There is only one solution to the economy problem and it wont happen, so people might as well just forget about having a working economy. No demand = no economy.
The economy is fine. There is nothing to spend the gold on.
[/ QUOTE ]
?
If there is nothing to spend the gold on then the economy is NOT fine. Thats what an economy is. Currency is just the means by which economic exchanges occur.
There is only one solution to the economy problem and it wont happen, so people might as well just forget about having a working economy. No demand = no economy.
I
imported_Velvathos
Guest
Ahh I been meaning to write about the zoo collection, vesper museum awards.. You can trade in animals, gold and wood and stuff for points, and the items fairly kickass, problem is I think they made it too difficult, 1 point for 15 gold?? It is a fine gold sink though and is the reason those awards have remained the same in value on NPC's.. If they sold artifacts like that, you buy, 1 point for 15 gold, need 500,000 points for that artfact then prices on NPC's around Luna would adjust accordingly..
We all know once you a equip an item in World of Warcraft you can't trade it or sell it at an auction, so once you get something better, your only option is to sell it to an NPC, this may help with the demand.....
We all know once you a equip an item in World of Warcraft you can't trade it or sell it at an auction, so once you get something better, your only option is to sell it to an NPC, this may help with the demand.....
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Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
Oh and make gold a value in the status bar and it won't be duped anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this would be a good idea. If gold was never a physical item in the game then it could never be duped. This wouldn't instantly fix the ecconomy as there is already a lot of gold out there but since it could no longer be duped the gold in game wold slowly go down. Gold could still be farmed and people could still get a lot of it but that is harder to do and takes longer then duping.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's a good idea too because then people with insanely large sums of gold could be taxed. Would be a great gold dump.
[/ QUOTE ]ummm....that's WoW again
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
Oh and make gold a value in the status bar and it won't be duped anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this would be a good idea. If gold was never a physical item in the game then it could never be duped. This wouldn't instantly fix the ecconomy as there is already a lot of gold out there but since it could no longer be duped the gold in game wold slowly go down. Gold could still be farmed and people could still get a lot of it but that is harder to do and takes longer then duping.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's a good idea too because then people with insanely large sums of gold could be taxed. Would be a great gold dump.
[/ QUOTE ]ummm....that's WoW again
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Guest
Guest
The problem with the UO economy isn't how much gold is in the game right now.... It's how that gold GOT into the game...
Years of duping and scripting has given rise to Unnatural hords or gold .... now you couple that with the fact that the NPC's don't sell ANYTHING other than the house tool and design tool or even the taxidermy kit that is worth spending much gold on..... Once you have one your not really gonna go out and buy 12,000... The thing about armor not degrading does NOT make gold go away.... It just redistributes it to another player. You have to actually take it OUT of the game... in order to do that you have to get folk to spend their money on things sold by NPC's..... somthing that doesn't happen much anymore.... just getting folk to shop off someones vendor only redistributes.... it does NOT eliminate....
Having less gold spawn may slow some accumulation... but honestly it hurts the young and those who don't cheat or purchase gold... In other words it's going to effect the average player..... and the NEW player..... do you really want to make the game FAR less appealing to the young????? how many billion things would they have to kill in order to be able to afford even the most basic of supplies????? NO I think it's a bad idea of a bandaide on a wound that clearly needs stitching!..... At any rate yes I agree that the economy is toast..... but as to how to "fix" it..... that's another story... Hurting the young and average player making the game more frustrating than it is...... IS NOT the answer.
Years of duping and scripting has given rise to Unnatural hords or gold .... now you couple that with the fact that the NPC's don't sell ANYTHING other than the house tool and design tool or even the taxidermy kit that is worth spending much gold on..... Once you have one your not really gonna go out and buy 12,000... The thing about armor not degrading does NOT make gold go away.... It just redistributes it to another player. You have to actually take it OUT of the game... in order to do that you have to get folk to spend their money on things sold by NPC's..... somthing that doesn't happen much anymore.... just getting folk to shop off someones vendor only redistributes.... it does NOT eliminate....
Having less gold spawn may slow some accumulation... but honestly it hurts the young and those who don't cheat or purchase gold... In other words it's going to effect the average player..... and the NEW player..... do you really want to make the game FAR less appealing to the young????? how many billion things would they have to kill in order to be able to afford even the most basic of supplies????? NO I think it's a bad idea of a bandaide on a wound that clearly needs stitching!..... At any rate yes I agree that the economy is toast..... but as to how to "fix" it..... that's another story... Hurting the young and average player making the game more frustrating than it is...... IS NOT the answer.
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Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
"I don't like how this game is being controlled by the rich and powerful"
Where's the Waaaaaaaaahmbulance when you need it.....
The game isn't controlled by anyone but EA/Mythic.
You don't even play it, so what's it matter to you?
Go back to grinding your levels in WoW.
[/ QUOTE ]That's funny...I've been playing a level 70 for the past 5 months with no alts...I wonder what levels you are talking about?
"I don't like how this game is being controlled by the rich and powerful"
Where's the Waaaaaaaaahmbulance when you need it.....
The game isn't controlled by anyone but EA/Mythic.
You don't even play it, so what's it matter to you?
Go back to grinding your levels in WoW.
[/ QUOTE ]That's funny...I've been playing a level 70 for the past 5 months with no alts...I wonder what levels you are talking about?
<blockquote><hr>
I run around in GM platemail without insurance on quite a few of my RP characters on Catskills, Pacific and Europa.... It is pretty awesome on Europa cause every PvP-RP guild at war with each other does it.…
[/ QUOTE ]Wait, wait…
Are you the same Velvathos who’s first and every post was made today? The same Velvathos who said… <blockquote><hr>
I don't know, I quit when UO started to look like World of Warcraft with Kingdom Reborn (feature wise.)
[/ QUOTE ]… in this thread earlier today?
So, did you quit or only quit for a couple of hours or not quit at all or are you just trolling on a throw away stratics account?
I run around in GM platemail without insurance on quite a few of my RP characters on Catskills, Pacific and Europa.... It is pretty awesome on Europa cause every PvP-RP guild at war with each other does it.…
[/ QUOTE ]Wait, wait…
Are you the same Velvathos who’s first and every post was made today? The same Velvathos who said… <blockquote><hr>
I don't know, I quit when UO started to look like World of Warcraft with Kingdom Reborn (feature wise.)
[/ QUOTE ]… in this thread earlier today?
So, did you quit or only quit for a couple of hours or not quit at all or are you just trolling on a throw away stratics account?
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
"So taxes dont fit but insurance does? How exactly?"
You pay insurance, but you get something back from it. Namely your items kept safe and sound instead of losing them.
Taxes would serve no purpose at all other than to take gold from the player and give nothing back in return.
You pay insurance, but you get something back from it. Namely your items kept safe and sound instead of losing them.
Taxes would serve no purpose at all other than to take gold from the player and give nothing back in return.
<blockquote><hr>
You then lower the amount of currency available off of monsters, and that solve the inflation problem. In a virtual game its just an issue of ease of use. Its easier to deal with 10k than 10mill.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh, about 2 years ago our 'esteemed' dev team just DOUBLED the gold monsters gave. The theory? Its too hard for new players to gain gold to compete so make it easier.
Well, it just made inflation worse. Oops.
You then lower the amount of currency available off of monsters, and that solve the inflation problem. In a virtual game its just an issue of ease of use. Its easier to deal with 10k than 10mill.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh, about 2 years ago our 'esteemed' dev team just DOUBLED the gold monsters gave. The theory? Its too hard for new players to gain gold to compete so make it easier.
Well, it just made inflation worse. Oops.
I
imported_Velvathos
Guest
"So, did you quit or only quit for a couple of hours or not quit at all or are you just trolling on a throw away stratics account?"
I have an active UO account still.. I get on briefly for a few hours a month now and days..... The account I currently play on isn't even mine, my old account got perma - banned.
I have an active UO account still.. I get on briefly for a few hours a month now and days..... The account I currently play on isn't even mine, my old account got perma - banned.
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Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Uh, about 2 years ago our 'esteemed' dev team just DOUBLED the gold monsters gave. The theory? Its too hard for new players to gain gold to compete so make it easier.
Well, it just made inflation worse. Oops.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah its kinda annoying. But yeah inflation cant really be solved I dont think. Its too easy to farm, even without bos.
Uh, about 2 years ago our 'esteemed' dev team just DOUBLED the gold monsters gave. The theory? Its too hard for new players to gain gold to compete so make it easier.
Well, it just made inflation worse. Oops.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah its kinda annoying. But yeah inflation cant really be solved I dont think. Its too easy to farm, even without bos.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
You pay insurance, but you get something back from it. Namely your items kept safe and sound instead of losing them.
Taxes would serve no purpose at all other than to take gold from the player and give nothing back in return.
[/ QUOTE ]
You pay house tax (ground rent?) and you get something back from it. Namely your house doesnt decay.
It fits as well as insurance does, and its just as optional. Dont pay insurance and you lose your items ... dont pay ground rent and lose your house. Its a gold sink plain and simple ... it makes owning a house an ongoing commitment rather than a one off payment.
You pay insurance, but you get something back from it. Namely your items kept safe and sound instead of losing them.
Taxes would serve no purpose at all other than to take gold from the player and give nothing back in return.
[/ QUOTE ]
You pay house tax (ground rent?) and you get something back from it. Namely your house doesnt decay.
It fits as well as insurance does, and its just as optional. Dont pay insurance and you lose your items ... dont pay ground rent and lose your house. Its a gold sink plain and simple ... it makes owning a house an ongoing commitment rather than a one off payment.
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
"You pay house tax (ground rent?) and you get something back from it. Namely your house doesnt decay."
My house doesn't decay because I pay a monthly subscription fee to UO. That's all the tax I expect to pay for it.
"it makes owning a house an ongoing commitment"
Continuing to pay for my account each month is the ongoing commitment. As soon as I stop paying, the house will decay then fall.
As I said, a house tax serves no purpose.
My house doesn't decay because I pay a monthly subscription fee to UO. That's all the tax I expect to pay for it.
"it makes owning a house an ongoing commitment"
Continuing to pay for my account each month is the ongoing commitment. As soon as I stop paying, the house will decay then fall.
As I said, a house tax serves no purpose.
Continuing to pay for my account each month is the ongoing commitment. As soon as I stop paying, the house will decay then fall.
Why does Real Life money affect some In-Game luxuries and not others? Why doesn't my £10 a month pay for the Items I fight so hard for to acquire to be lost when I die, particularly considering the more extreme but possible circumstances of say, bizarre glitching, resulting in loss of an Item?
The Real Money rents the Account, the in-game Gold pays off the luxuries you choose to indulge in within the game.
I would agree with you though, if houses were Mandatory, every player started with one, and you *had* to pay Taxes for them, THEN... they should most remove such Taxes, as it's inescapable, as some players for whatever reason may not want a house.
Why does Real Life money affect some In-Game luxuries and not others? Why doesn't my £10 a month pay for the Items I fight so hard for to acquire to be lost when I die, particularly considering the more extreme but possible circumstances of say, bizarre glitching, resulting in loss of an Item?
The Real Money rents the Account, the in-game Gold pays off the luxuries you choose to indulge in within the game.
I would agree with you though, if houses were Mandatory, every player started with one, and you *had* to pay Taxes for them, THEN... they should most remove such Taxes, as it's inescapable, as some players for whatever reason may not want a house.
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Guest
Guest
...
You pay house tax (ground rent?) and you get something back from it. Namely your house doesnt decay.
No.
Come up with something SUBSTANTIAL for my gold otherwise don't try and force me into throwing it into the garbage bin... you can do that yourself.
You pay house tax (ground rent?) and you get something back from it. Namely your house doesnt decay.
No.
Come up with something SUBSTANTIAL for my gold otherwise don't try and force me into throwing it into the garbage bin... you can do that yourself.
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Guest
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Hail: I just threw 100 gold into the garbage bin at moonglow bank. Everyone come join in the fun. If we ALL di it, ........umm lets see, 100 gold per charater...X 5 Charaters per account......X 2500 active accounts left......We could take well over 1 million gold out of the game......hehehe.
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Guest
<blockquote><hr>
The Real Money rents the Account, the in-game Gold pays off the luxuries you choose to indulge in within the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
100% correct. And a house is a luxury you choose to indulge in within the game. So is item insurance.
Paying a monthly fee to play UO does not 'entitle' you to a house and it is not rental on that house. It is a fee to log in each month and utilise the server/game content. They could scrap housing tomorrow and you wouldnt be getting a discount from your monthly fee because guess what ... none of that monthly fee pays for your house.
The Real Money rents the Account, the in-game Gold pays off the luxuries you choose to indulge in within the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
100% correct. And a house is a luxury you choose to indulge in within the game. So is item insurance.
Paying a monthly fee to play UO does not 'entitle' you to a house and it is not rental on that house. It is a fee to log in each month and utilise the server/game content. They could scrap housing tomorrow and you wouldnt be getting a discount from your monthly fee because guess what ... none of that monthly fee pays for your house.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Paying a monthly fee to play UO does not 'entitle' you to a house and it is not rental on that house.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with this line of thinking. It may not entitle me to a castle, but it does entitle me to claim a plot of land to develop. If that changes, I would have little use for 3/4 of my accounts.
Paying a monthly fee to play UO does not 'entitle' you to a house and it is not rental on that house.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with this line of thinking. It may not entitle me to a castle, but it does entitle me to claim a plot of land to develop. If that changes, I would have little use for 3/4 of my accounts.