[Discussion] How does the community feel about this?

[Manticore]

Yesterday, the Pacific EMs introduced a new way of getting Greeting Sashes "Vending Machine" style where you just walk up to the "dressor" like item and double click on it to receive a sash. Eevery char on your account can get one and the machines are still there in the Counselor Hall. To me, this is a very dangerous road down south for the rares market. Where as in the past we had to make an effort to find out when the meet and greets and hope that they have been given permission to give out greeting sashes now anyone can just walk up to it anytime and get one. What does this mean for the other future EM related items or other Greeting sashes? Thoughts?

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

I think that you are overreacting. They might do it for things like greeting sashes or cloak of shadows which they had to manually give out to hundreds of players at times - a very time consuming and frustrating task. That does not mean it will be used for everything else.

 

[LordDextonious]

After so many people threw a fit after events, seeing that only a few get the event item, they have put this into play. EM cyno, and Mesanna state ths will be the way rewards for events are handed out. Not all of them, but a majority I am sure. Thanks to all the people who want their stuff handed to them on a silver platter and not work for it, and try harder to get them.

This idea is doom for events. Like it or not, people went to get the rare items, and to try hard to get them. The stories are interesting, but most of the time they are hard to follow the plot. I went for the rare items... As most did. It was fun and different at the same time, but the reward was my main objective. Now what's the point in getting an item. Just like the valentine candy, or the gift cards u get every holiday. Eventually you just throw them away.

 

[Mesanna]

Ok guys I really think your over reacting here a bit....EM greeting sashes were NEVER supposed to be a rare item.

Special items are still going to be given as drops on a mob. This tool will be used for times when things are massed produced to celebrate a day and/or to give an item to all players that attend the event. This will speed up distribution for the larger shards so people do not have to stand in line for hours to get an item.

Please tell me how this is a bad addition?

 

[Suzzy]

I always likened the sashes to the Christmas gifts or Valentine's gifts that you get when you log in your character. They were never really rare in my book since you could just ask an EM to give you one and they would.

I have no problem with this type of distribution method for items that are meant to be given to anyone who wants one. It gives an EM more time to focus on events and less time having to deal with the massive amounts of people asking for an item.

 

[DevilsOwn]

I have no problem with this type of distribution method for items that are meant to be given to anyone who wants one. It gives an EM more time to focus on events and less time having to deal with the massive amounts of people asking for an item.

this, yes

mostly because the massive amounts of people becomes more massive as everyone logs in with all their characters to show up and get an item

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I agree with Suzzy.

Now if you could only take things a step further and require you turn in a ticket to redeem the item. How many hours of time would that have saved on something like the turn in from valentines day?

 

[lineman]

Well something that you did not intend to be a rare is already collected and sold as rares. Some people in game have been working very hard to make sets of these. People have spent a lot of gold at rares fests and even cross sharded to complete sets. There was nothing wrong with the way the system was. If you payed attention and made the events you got a sash at times. It made the item special. Now it will become nothing more than a named fishsteak.

 

[Manticore]

I always likened the sashes to the Christmas gifts or Valentine's gifts that you get when you log in your character. They were never really rare in my book since you could just ask an EM to give you one and they would.

I have no problem with this type of distribution method for items that are meant to be given to anyone who wants one. It gives an EM more time to focus on events and less time having to deal with the massive amounts of people asking for an item.

That's not true at all. Last year when they first started giving out sashes if you missed the Meet and Greet you didn't get a sash. The EMs were NOT allowed to give sashes as they pleases. I remember because I've asked just about every EM and they all said only if Messana approves. And for the next few months only once in a blue moon the EMs gave out sashes so it definetly was not as you put it "just ask and you got it" type of scenairo.

This policy is a complete reversal of the previous one. Unlike the Messana pies where EMs on many shards specfiically told everyone they will give them out freely and even locked down (Drachenfels) on some shards to let people know that. Had this policy was in place for the Sashes, many of would not have transferred to many shards and try to get them.

And just because you don't see them as a "rare" doesnt make them Not a rare. EMs such as Aeon who only gave out sashes once or twice and to a few people at a time then retired is more rare than some of the sashes you have in your musuem.

I can understand the long lines of getting sashes but that was still a controlled environment, i.e. you got booted from the EM reward house and your entire account is blocked from getting another. This way you can log in all the chars on one account, erase all the junk chars then create them again. Wait a few days then repeat the process until you run out of storage on these sashes.

Just to prove this point i know a player who has 10 account and last night she ended up with 50 sashes basically tossed them away and kept 1 just for a laugh.

But I digress, I guess the simple solution now is to not allow these items count for the musuems and not allowed to be sold on this Foreum

 

[Suzzy]

I'm just going off of what Messana said.

Any person who collects rares should know the risk involved in doing so. Whether it be from duping or a change to the game that makes your rare less valuable(replicas, re-distribution, game mechanic changes), the point is we know this can happen in a game that is ever changing.

Now as a collector myself if they came out and said everything that has been given out can now be obtained in this way, my opinion would be much different. Perhaps if I did collect the sashes I'd be upset, but I never did because I foresaw this happening. As long as they continue to run solid events and give out rares as they continue to do so, I have no complaints.

 

[Suzzy]

I am also in agreement that sashes should not be considered a rare item at this point. Especially since the person responsible for producing them has come out and said they aren't supposed to be rare.

 

[AnneNomilly]

OK, I'll admit, I'm not real big on the rare's trading thing. The rares I have hold sentimental value to me. They give me the ability to look at them and remember, "Ahh, I was there for xyz."

But I still fail to see how this new option is a bad thing. Mesanna stated that there will still be drops so it's not like the entire rare's market is being "nerfed". Seems to me there's still plenty out there that's rare and unique. And, if someone wants a complete collection of the EM sashes, they will still have to visit every shard and then cross shard them back home right? I mean, are all the EM's giving away each other's sashes on all the shards? Can I get a complete set of EM sashes on Catskills? There are still sashes out there from retired EM's right? To get a complete set, to my way of thinking, is still going to be a hard thing to do.

What's wrong with having some things that are available to everyone while still having some things that are rare? Isn't that a win/win for everyone? At least this way, I have a chance of having a sash for MY EM on MY shard that I can look back on one day and say, "ahh, yes, I remember when..." And I still get the benefit of attending events and hoping for some special item at the same time.

Just my two cents.

 

[Laina]

I thought the whole point of giving out items was for attendance at an event. Sure it is a meet and greet event - no monster killing or puzzle solving. But this type of "event" is supposed to foster community participation. It is where the EMs talk to the group and see what kinds of events people want to see and to assess their progress. I look at the sashes as a sign of that participation.

If the EM's don't want to be there for hours handing out items to alt characters then just lock the door so additional characters can't come in. Problem solved. Run the meet and greet every few months. The sashes say "Greetings from EM xyz." Not much of a greeting if you have never met that EM in my opinion.

 

[lineman]

Just another big disappointment to the rares community in my opinion. I disagree with you 100% Suzzy. These have been collected and sold as rares from the start and I don't know how the Em's or Mesanna can say differently. To change the system now is just screwing the people who have taken the time and gold collecting them.

 

[Suzzy]

You make a valid point Laina.

What I gather from Messana's post about these sashes not being rare is the following. If in their eyes these sashes were never meant to be rare, but people in the community were treating them as rare, then the easiest way to rectify that would be to make them easily accessible by anyone at anytime. It might not be the best way of handling the situation, but it fixes it rather quickly.

And to you lineman, if this is the first time you've been screwed over by a change in the game then you're incredibly fortunate. A quarter of my rares were devalued by replicas, but I did not complain. I spent much more time and money over the years collecting those particular rares than these sashes, but that is part of the collecting game. If you did not yet realize that, you now know better.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Ok guys I really think your over reacting here a bit....EM greeting sashes were NEVER supposed to be a rare item.

Special items are still going to be given as drops on a mob. This tool will be used for times when things are massed produced to celebrate a day and/or to give an item to all players that attend the event. This will speed up distribution for the larger shards so people do not have to stand in line for hours to get an item.

Please tell me how this is a bad addition?

I think it is a great idea. That was one one the major things wrong with the old events. EMs should not be creating rares at any time. They are just whinning because they are gready and want all the gold to themselves.

 

[lineman]

You make a valid point Laina.

What I gather from Messana's post about these sashes not being rare is the following. If in their eyes these sashes were never meant to be rare, but people in the community were treating them as rare, then the easiest way to rectify that would be to make them easily accessible by anyone at anytime. It might not be the best way of handling the situation, but it fixes it rather quickly.

And to you lineman, if this is the first time you've been screwed over by a change in the game then you're incredibly fortunate. A quarter of my rares were devalued by replicas, but I did not complain. I spent much more time and money over the years collecting those particular rares than these sashes, but that is part of the collecting game. If you did not yet realize that, you now know better.

I do not even collect these sashes. But I do know people who collect them religiously, and I know the amount of time and effort they put into it. Maybe by this community speaking out against changes in game like this they will think twice about adding vendor machines spitting out something that people have sold event rares for gold to finish that set of theirs. Or think twice about making that nice 2 piece plough a replica in some future patch. Maybe if you did complain these things wouldn't happen and the rares we cherish so much would remain rares.

 

[canary]

Just to prove this point i know a player who has 10 account and last night she ended up with 50 sashes basically tossed them away and kept 1 just for a laugh.

Because having 10 accounts isn't a joke in itself. Really? Over 100 dollars a month JUST for UO? Yikes, and I mean that sincerely. The joke, imo, is on your friend.

 

[Laina]

They would not be so rare if more people attended the event... Rather than handing them out to everyone on the shard, maybe they should find ways to foster participation in the event. These "quick and easy" fixes drive me crazy.

Personally I think this would discourage people from going to these meet and greet events. Yes we would lose the people who only go to get a sash but those people don't usually say much if anything anyway. What they do offer is their presence. It is much more encouraging and exciting to see a room full of people then maybe 5 or 10 people.

And, as for items that were once rare but about to not be rare, we have all had to deal with it. I think Lineman's point is more that it is frustrating to have it continually happen to our community.

 

[Manticore]

OK, I'll admit, I'm not real big on the rare's trading thing. The rares I have hold sentimental value to me. They give me the ability to look at them and remember, "Ahh, I was there for xyz."

But I still fail to see how this new option is a bad thing. Mesanna stated that there will still be drops so it's not like the entire rare's market is being "nerfed". Seems to me there's still plenty out there that's rare and unique. And, if someone wants a complete collection of the EM sashes, they will still have to visit every shard and then cross shard them back home right? I mean, are all the EM's giving away each other's sashes on all the shards? Can I get a complete set of EM sashes on Catskills? There are still sashes out there from retired EM's right? To get a complete set, to my way of thinking, is still going to be a hard thing to do.

What's wrong with having some things that are available to everyone while still having some things that are rare? Isn't that a win/win for everyone? At least this way, I have a chance of having a sash for MY EM on MY shard that I can look back on one day and say, "ahh, yes, I remember when..." And I still get the benefit of attending events and hoping for some special item at the same time.

Just my two cents.

I dont know what i did with my 10000 snowman, 10000 gift boxes, 10000 anniversary cakes, 10000 valentine chocolates, 10000 etc............... o now i remember, they are still on all the chars i've created searching for the Rare Angel statues, or the Neon Xmas Boxes, or the Angel Boxes.

Bottom line is why even bother with the vending machine why not just put it on NPC

 

[Suzzy]

The only thing this is affecting is the sashes.

Messana made it clear in her post that rares are still going to drop and be gained as normal. Do I feel bad for those who decided to collect the sashes anticipating that they would maintain rarity? Sure I do. However, as I keep continually emphasizing in my posts in this thread, rare collecting is something we choose to do. This choice has inherent risks involved which I've already outlined. If you do not like the risks then maybe rares collecting is not for you.

 

[Lord Nabin]

Wow this was a hot topic rather quick.

I am for the you got to show up to the event to get one. Otherwise just drop it in my back pack like the other holiday gifts.

The Term Event Managers in its nature means there is an event in order to get something. If you don't show to the "Event" then you don't earn an item.

My only other comment is this. Just becuase an items placed into play in the game was not intended to be a rare, it does not mean that the community that plays the game can not find it special and have meaning to them.

There are many things in life which have results that we did not intend.


OK now that we got that over with could some one please answer my earlier post regarding the Solstice Candles hand dipped by the GM's??? I just need a clue of what I am dealing with

 

[Manticore]

Wow this was a hot topic rather quick.

I am for the you got to show up to the event to get one. Otherwise just drop it in my back pack like the other holiday gifts.

The Term Event Managers in its nature means there is an event in order to get something. If you don't show to the "Event" then you don't earn an item.

My only other comment is this. Just becuase an items placed into play in the game was not intended to be a rare, it does not mean that the community that plays the game can not find it special and have meaning to them.

There are many things in life which have results that we did not intend.


OK now that we got that over with could some one please answer my earlier post regarding the Solstice Candles hand dipped by the GM's??? I just need a clue of what I am dealing with

You might as well treat the Solstice Candles like those of the sashes , I have hundreds of chars with those boxes still on them and I probably wont even bother to look until iam overloaded lol

 

[Manticore]

Now on a diferent subject. Want to bring even more players to these events? Start giving out uber nice moded items with a timer on them. That will stimulate the economy, player base to no bounds. Owners can enjoy the item for a day or two just have hella fun then poof so the game mechanics stay balanced.

 

[Manticore]

O one more thing, Messana, if you didn't hear it from me enough times, you and your EM team are doing an awesome job. This past year, you have, I beleive, revitalized the Rares Economy. We like to complain once in a while but don't ever think for one sec we (rares community) are not appreciative of what you are doing

 

[Manticore]

Now I've gotten more time to mold over this concept, this idea does have its merits. I think it just needs a little tweeking. I agree with you this saves EM time. Will you think about the possibility of changing the vending machine to 1 per account and put a time limit on it?

This way, by giving it one per account and put a time limit on it will:

1. Save EM time
2. Intention is met, i.e. every player who wants one can have one.
3. Still maintain some form of Rareity.

Win/Win/Win situation

P.S. But then should we change the name of "Meet and Greet" sashes to "Acknowledgement of EM" Sashes? lol

 

[Lord Nabin]

O one more thing, Messana, if you didn't hear it from me enough times, you and your EM team are doing an awesome job. This past year, you have, I beleive, revitalized the Rares Economy. We like to complain once in a while but don't ever think for one sec we (rares community) are not appreciative of what you are doing

I Agree with the remarks here that the EM's have done a great job. I really have only interacted with the ones on Napa, but I have to say the Napa Em's have done an excellent job! both in game and in response to my communications.

Keep up the good work! The communities need you and they make a huge difference.

 

[Laina]

Except that you are, in my opinion, still defeating the purpose...the sash represents meeting with the EM's...not much of a meeting if you aren't there. By all means, give them out at more meetings. Vary the times of day the meetings are held. But please require a player participate in the community event, even if they just sit there for a half hour and listen.

And absolutely - Messana, you and your team have done an awesome job for the rares community. I very much appreciate all your hard work!

 

[Lord Nabin]

Except that you are, in my opinion, still defeating the purpose...the sash represents meeting with the EM's...not much of a meeting if you aren't there. By all means, give them out at more meetings. Vary the times of day the meetings are held. But please require a player participate in the community event, even if they just sit there for a half hour and listen.

And absolutely - Messana, you and your team have done an awesome job for the rares community. I very much appreciate all your hard work!

Yep, this is right on. You have to be there to get one. Isn't the purpose to engage the community and to get to know your Em's and their personalities. Frankly I would never want to go to a machine to get a sash.

The title Event Manager is in itself an indication of someone who personally interacts with the player base community. If the EM's can take the time to show up for a meet and greet then the community can show up as well and earn their sash.

It is one of the rewards for taking the time out of your long UO day to stop by and say "Hi"

 

[Apetul]

I bought 12-15 EM sashes on the last rares fest. I think I've paid about 2-5m x sash. Do I complain? of course not, and of course I know the sashes are FREE for everyone that attends the events on each shard and talks (or not) to the EM. I just paid for my lazyness.

I like the sashes "Vending machine". Its a great idea and I hope every EM on every shard implement this same idea. Next vending machine must be for Messana pies.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

I think enough has been said on this topic. Locking this thread after few personal thoughts on the matter,

1) Ultima Online or rare collecting would not be the same if there was not a real risk involved that your shiny new rare might become obsolete. This has ALWAYS been the case. Rare collection is often a matter of speculation on the part of the buyer that the item will retain or go higher in value. Guess what? Speculations are not always true.

2) I agree with Laina and whoever else that said that "Greetings sashes" should be only given when the EM is present. What is the point of giving them if the EM is not even there? Hopefully, in regards to greeting sashes, the EM team and Mesanna will consider this. But I don't see why they cannot use this tool to hand out sashes while they are there instead of manually distributing them. Something to keep in mind though is that we have only seen this on one shard - even before this tool, the sash hand out varied based on the EM's personal choice, some gave out 10 and some 100s.

3) If anyone was there when cloak of shadows were being handed out on Atlantic would quickly understand the value of this new tool. There were literally 5 EM's and Mesanna giving out the cloaks for over SIX HOURS. That is stupid and a complete waste of time for both the players and the EM staff. You can then see how useful this would become.

4) I know it is a very silly remark to make on this forum, but events are not about winning a reward. Trust me when I say that if you are only attending events on your shard for winning some pixel, you are missing out on the full potential of this game.