How does SSI *actually* work?

[Skelf]

Does anyone have HARD info on how this works?

I have tested a 50 SSI Invasion HXBow in combination with a recently acquired full Assassin leather armour suit with 20 SSI. There is not supposed (Stratics) to be a cap on SSI although there is a cap on swing speed at 1.0 secs.

Now:
First assumption was that a total of 70 SSI with a 5 sec weapon speed box should have given a base weapon speed of 1.5 secs. With 150 dex/158 Stamina, I hoped to hit the swing cap of 1 sec when undamaged and at full stamina.

In fact, at full stamina, I fire at 27/28 shots per minute (2.2 secs/shot). Without the Assassin suit and it's supposed 20 SSI, I fire at 24 shots/minute (2.5 secs/shot). Now neither of these are shoddy fire rates for a HXBow but its not quite the heavy machine gun effect I had been hoping for..;p

This means that the improvement in fire rate between wearing the suit and not wearing the suit is only 0.3 secs per shot. The improvement is 0.3/5.0 (base weapon speed) or 0.06 - this is, within the granularity limits of the data set, suspiciously close to 5% - or the bonus I would have expected from wearing only 1 piece of the armour set.

This pattern is consistent with all the bows I have tested. I thought I would post this and ask if there are any changes/adjustments/nerfs to SSI caps or any other related factors that I, as a returning player (6 mths)and born again nuuub, am unaware of. It may be that I am simply misinterpreting the bonus that the Assassin set is meant to provide - perhaps it IS only meant to give 5% with all 4 pieces present...

If not, I need next to test whether or not I get that 5-6% improvement in swing/shot speed from wearing only 1 piece of the armour set instead of 4. In view of the poorish resists and lack of other bonuses, pretty much the entire attraction of the Assassin set lies in the SSI bonus. If it is only 5% - it's worthless.

Looking forward to hearing from those in the know...but please, HARD info only. Don't speculate.

 

[Storm]

Caps

The maximum SSI to be found on a standard weapon is +30% (though some artifacts have been known to go as high as 35%). SSI is occasionally found on non-weapons, such as the artifact Daimyo's Helm. A character’s total SSI is capped at 60%.
Formula

In the Five on Friday of March 9, 2007, the developer Leurocian provided the following formula for determining swing speed. The example provided was based upon a character with 50 Stamina who is swinging a Halberd with 20 SSI.

1. Convert the Weapon Base Speed to ticks by multiplying the speed in seconds of your weapon, which is displayed on the tooltip, by 4. Example, an unmodified Halberd has a Weapon Base Speed of 4.25 seconds per swing, which converts to a base speed of 17 ticks.
2. Determine the character’s “Stamina Ticks” by dividing the current Stamina by 30. Example, if your current Stamina is 50, then 50/30=1.666, which is rounded down. In this instance, the “Stamina Ticks” are 1.
3. Note the total Swing Speed Increase modifier from equipment. Example, 20.

Formula: ((Base Weapon Speed - Stamina Ticks) * (100.0 / (100 + Swing Speed Increase))) = "x" ticks

Example: ((17 - 1) * (100.0 / (100 + 20))) = 13 ticks.

When divided by 4, so as to convert ticks back into seconds, the modified Halberd speed is 3.25 seconds.

so according to this 60 is the cap this could explain the difference you are seeing

 

[Storm]

so by my calculations you have a 2.34 sec swing speed

 

[Connor_Graham]

There is not supposed (Stratics) to be a cap on SSI

A character's SSI is capped at a max of 60. Each 10 SSI is equal to 1 tick, or .25 seconds.

although there is a cap on swing speed at 1.0 secs.

The cap is 1.25 seconds.

These 2 things being said, the assumptions that follow them are incorrect.

It may be that I am simply misinterpreting the bonus that the Assassin set is meant to provide - perhaps it IS only meant to give 5% with all 4 pieces present...

Assassin suit gives 20% SSI total when all pcs are present.

 

[Storm]

so then connor did I calculate the speed corectly for the full suit? pretty sure i did

 

[Skelf]

Storm - you are my kind of person..;p

Thank you for the info and thanks for such a prompt response. Let's see how it fits my data set.

For the 50 SSI HXBow alone firing at 24 shots per minute - observed shot speed was 2.5 secs

The calculated shot speed would be:
((20-5)*(100/100+50)) / 4 = 2.5 secs

So absolutely spot on. Very encouraging.


For the 50 SSI HXBow plus 20 SSI suit, observed speed was 27/28 shots per minute - 2.22 recurring to 2.14 secs (mean - 2.18)

Calculated speed would be - assuming **70** SSI
((20-5)*(100/170)/4 = 2.206 secs

Very very close to observed data


Assuming there is an SSI cap of 60 however,
((20-5)*(100/160)/4 = 2.344 secs

Higher swing speed than observed data - but data granularity is such that larger sample size really needed.


The difference is close enough that I need to go back and get a larger data set. My data suggests that the declared 60 SSI cap isn't working/doesn't exist. I'll you all what I find in next few days. Overall though, the formula above comes close enough to my observations to convince me that it is essentially accurate and does explain my disappointment with the fire rate. It may be, however, that some of the incorporated assumptions being made (such as SSI cap) may be false.

My thanks again for accurate and prompt response.

 

[Skelf]

A character's SSI is capped at a max of 60. Each 10 SSI is equal to 1 tick, or .25 seconds.

The cap is 1.25 seconds.

These 2 things being said, the assumptions that follow them are incorrect.

Assassin suit gives 20% SSI total when all pcs are present.

Connor,

You are, without any doubt, one of the most active, experienced and knowledgeable posters in this forum and your advice is always worth taking on board. I really don't want you to take what I am about to say badly because, of course, you may still be entirely correct. It's just your...erm...delivery..;p

I *did* say in my initial post that Stractics was the source of my information - in fact here is the cut and paste.

***Swing Speed Increase
Intensity Range: 5 - 30
Maximum Attainable: 30(85)
Found On: Weapons

Swing Speed Increase increases the base speed at which you swing your weapon.

Although Swing Speed Increase is not capped, swing speed is capped at 1 swing per second. ***

Now, I realise that this is comparatively old info and hence asked for any updates that might have been made since I last played. You and Storm and probably many others know about the changes that have been made - but I didn't. I am fully aware that substantial changes in the game still remain undocumented on many sites which is, of course, what makes fora such as this and contributors such as yourself and Storm, so useful when you need current info. So with respect to the errors you corrected, I plead that they were not *my* errors, but obsolete data and that in posting a request for newer information, I have demonstrated my awareness of that.

Despite the updated info you and Storm provided, my experience of such matters in the past have not led me to implictly trust the game mechanic data as released by companies - all too often, when put to the test by *players*, bits fall off. I am a kick the tires, slam the doors, turn the engine over believer - I need to see it working, not take a company's word for it. UO, it has to be said, is far better in this respect than many other MMORPG companies since they do release and will confirm actual game mechanic formulae.

***These 2 things being said, the assumptions that follow them are incorrect.

Assassin suit gives 20% SSI total when all pcs are present. ***

Going to have to call you on this one Conner. What followed was not an assumption - it was a hypothesis. I believe, upon reflection, you know and will recognise the difference.

Having absorbed Storm's excellent response and replied to it - my incomplete understanding of the mechanics behind the application of SSI to swing speed has been remedied. Now, and this is what you won't like, I perceived your response to be entirely negative, dismissive and devoid of information I could use to resolve my predicament. It felt, to be honest, like an exercise in putting me in my place.

Harsh? Maybe. But that is what came across and I know that with the familiarity you must have with the questions that are repeatedly raised in the forum, there will be a tendency for a certain degree - as the saying goes - of contempt to arise. Fight it..;p

Don't worry about my taking any lasting offence...after almost...ye gods...35 years gaming in one way or another (starting w original D&D boxed set), I am thick skinned enough to survive. And I will still value your insight on game mechanics ...;p

Take care all.

 

[Lynk]

Connor,

You are, without any doubt, one of the most active, experienced and knowledgeable posters in this forum and your advice is always worth taking on board. I really don't want you to take what I am about to say badly because, of course, you may still be entirely correct. It's just your...erm...delivery..;p

I *did* say in my initial post that Stractics was the source of my information - in fact here is the cut and paste.

***Swing Speed Increase
Intensity Range: 5 - 30
Maximum Attainable: 30(85)
Found On: Weapons

Swing Speed Increase increases the base speed at which you swing your weapon.

Although Swing Speed Increase is not capped, swing speed is capped at 1 swing per second. ***

Now, I realise that this is comparatively old info and hence asked for any updates that might have been made since I last played. You and Storm and probably many others know about the changes that have been made - but I didn't. I am fully aware that substantial changes in the game still remain undocumented on many sites which is, of course, what makes fora such as this and contributors such as yourself and Storm, so useful when you need current info. So with respect to the errors you corrected, I plead that they were not *my* errors, but obsolete data and that in posting a request for newer information, I have demonstrated my awareness of that.

Despite the updated info you and Storm provided, my experience of such matters in the past have not led me to implictly trust the game mechanic data as released by companies - all too often, when put to the test by *players*, bits fall off. I am a kick the tires, slam the doors, turn the engine over believer - I need to see it working, not take a company's word for it. UO, it has to be said, is far better in this respect than many other MMORPG companies since they do release and will confirm actual game mechanic formulae.

***These 2 things being said, the assumptions that follow them are incorrect.

Assassin suit gives 20% SSI total when all pcs are present. ***

Going to have to call you on this one Conner. What followed was not an assumption - it was a hypothesis. I believe, upon reflection, you know and will recognise the difference.

Having absorbed Storm's excellent response and replied to it - my incomplete understanding of the mechanics behind the application of SSI to swing speed has been remedied. Now, and this is what you won't like, I perceived your response to be entirely negative, dismissive and devoid of information I could use to resolve my predicament. It felt, to be honest, like an exercise in putting me in my place.

Harsh? Maybe. But that is what came across and I know that with the familiarity you must have with the questions that are repeatedly raised in the forum, there will be a tendency for a certain degree - as the saying goes - of contempt to arise. Fight it..;p

Don't worry about my taking any lasting offence...after almost...ye gods...35 years gaming in one way or another (starting w original D&D boxed set), I am thick skinned enough to survive. And I will still value your insight on game mechanics ...;p

Take care all.

I'm sad to say I read all of your post. Let me summarize for everyone:

Connor, you provided facts that proved I wasted my time gathering "data". I'm used to thinking I'm right, so even though your post was nothing but factual statements without pleasantries I'm offended.

You were right, I was wrong, but my feelings were hurt. I'm going to ramble on a bit more and try to make myself sound intelligent.

Hmm.. It's time to feed my goldfish and start my Star Trek marathon from the first episode.

 

[Arch Magus]

I'm sad to say I read all of your post. Let me summarize for everyone:

Connor, you provided facts that proved I wasted my time gathering "data". I'm used to thinking I'm right, so even though your post was nothing but factual statements without pleasantries I'm offended.

You were right, I was wrong, but my feelings were hurt. I'm going to ramble on a bit more and try to make myself sound intelligent.

Hmm.. It's time to feed my goldfish and start my Star Trek marathon from the first episode.

This post pees excellence.

 

[Connor_Graham]

***These 2 things being said, the assumptions that follow them are incorrect.

Assassin suit gives 20% SSI total when all pcs are present. ***

Going to have to call you on this one Conner. What followed was not an assumption - it was a hypothesis.

Really? Hmm. It wasn't an assumption? You did say this:

Now:
First assumption was....

Didn't you?

Now, and this is what you won't like, I perceived your response to be entirely negative, dismissive and devoid of information I could use to resolve my predicament. It felt, to be honest, like an exercise in putting me in my place.

I realize perception is reality and all that, but really, you need to get your feelings off your sleeve. I stated what are commonly well known facts that I, and many others here, deal with on a daily basis. I didn't feel like digging through the past few years of FoF's to bring up the "facts", but instead quoted what I already know as factual information. There was nothing intended other than to do just that.

Harsh? Maybe. But that is what came across and I know that with the familiarity you must have with the questions that are repeatedly raised in the forum, there will be a tendency for a certain degree - as the saying goes - of contempt to arise. Fight it..;p

I don't hold contempt for anyone that posts here. Not one single person. If I did, I wouldn't take my own personal time that could be spent playing the game instead, and do my absolute very best to help out everyone I can. I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt for whatever reason, but the insult was all in your mind. Believe me, if I wanted to insult you, there wouldn't be a shadow of a doubt that I wasn't doing exactly that.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'm sad to say I read all of your post. Let me summarize for everyone:

Connor, you provided facts that proved I wasted my time gathering "data". I'm used to thinking I'm right, so even though your post was nothing but factual statements without pleasantries I'm offended.

You were right, I was wrong, but my feelings were hurt. I'm going to ramble on a bit more and try to make myself sound intelligent.

Hmm.. It's time to feed my goldfish and start my Star Trek marathon from the first episode.

I got a RL chuckle out of this.

 

[Connor_Graham]

so then connor did I calculate the speed corectly for the full suit? pretty sure i did

To be honest, I didn't even try to figure it out. UO math gives me a headache. When dealing with SSI and the resulting swing speed, I usually just convert the SSI into the .25 tick, then subtract that from the weapons' SSI and go from there.

 

[Storm]

To be honest, I didn't even try to figure it out. UO math gives me a headache. When dealing with SSI and the resulting swing speed, I usually just convert the SSI into the .25 tick, then subtract that from the weapons' SSI and go from there.

For me personally I don't worry about figuring ssi period I pick up my bow and just can tell if its shooting at a acceptable speed for me if not I take steps to make it or me faster. I am with you on the math just gives me a head ache!

 

[Chaosy]

This is how SSI works:

http://users.lmi.net/~noodle/netathene/guilds/Posts/

Yay SSI charts. The formula is on the UO website, and the cap is 1.25.

 

[Skelf]

Chaosy,

Many thanks for posting that link - I came across it some months ago and couldn't find it again. Now that I understand the mechanics of SSI, this shouldn't be an issue again as the charts can, as people have rather...pointedly...made clear, easily be calculated...however, it's now logged.

**views the responses to his last post**

Ah...lese-majeste...*bows head in shame*

Now I understand...p

 

[Arch Magus]

Don't worry about it Skelf.

All of us have, at times, been called out for being a little "long winded".

 

[Chaosy]

If you were still interested in the actual formula, here it is:

Formula: ((Base Weapon Speed - Stamina Ticks) * (100.0 / (100 + Swing Speed Increase))) = "x" ticks

Base Weapon Speed = speed in seconds multipled by 4 (i.e. a dagger is 2*4 = 8)
Stamina Ticks = Current stamina/30, rounded down (i.e. 118/30 = 3)

When you plug everything in, you can change the "x" ticks into seconds by dividing by 4. An important thing to note is that if you get your final x = 8.6334236 blah blah, it always rounds down to the lowest integer value, which would be 8 (this means you would swing once every 2 seconds).

 

[Storm]

This is how SSI works:

http://users.lmi.net/~noodle/netathene/guilds/Posts/

Yay SSI charts. The formula is on the UO website, and the cap is 1.25.

Awesome I was in the process of making a similar chart and its a pain you just saved me tons of work thank you very much