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Houses in Guard Zones

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JC the Builder

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But those same people also rely on the people that make the game to communicate to them that things are happening. Again, silly to expect the devs to actually be on top of communication when the only people that will suffer from this really are those that bought these homes from others. The placers don't suffer at all. They can just drop the house themselves and get back every gold piece they spent on it. You tell me honestly that that is fair.
Not so simple. Have you ever heard of condemned housing? Anyone who placed and expected to move into these houses are going to have to transfer their current house to another account. Some people may even have to pay to open a second account to save their house.

But guess what? With the new 15 day old requirement to own a house you simply can't open a new account to save your house. So if you are someone who only plays with one account and have no other inactive accounts ready with a character to hold your house, you are so out of luck.
 

Nystul

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Another great job by our rookie dev team.

When the hell will they learn from thier mistakes? It was an obvious issue and they should have taken down shards one at a time and fixed it right away.

Good job on whoever's ****ty decision this was.

I'm so glad they are taking this stance but ain't doing jack **** for everyone walking around with changling duped items, available by the hundreds of thousands.

Obviously I could go on & on with other crappy things they looked the other way on...

But yeah what a ****ty move, I'm leaving my keep up. When it gets deleted I'll be shutting down my accounts. Good job EA & Tim.
 

Nystul

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edit: I'm selling it to someone who knows no better. I hope they enjoy thier loss on monday, GJ Tim. :)
 

Elric_Soban

Babbling Loonie
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There ya go. Inconsistency. I feel bad for those players that lose gold buying houses that aren't grandfathered in and allowed to be in guardzone. Another example of players being punished for not scouring every forum for the game they play.
disagree.. if you've been playing long enuf to be buying a house, you should know that houses arent to be placed in guard zones and that they're only there through a bug.

buying into the latest bug/exploit.. bad investment.
 

drinkbeerallday

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disagree.. if you've been playing long enuf to be buying a house, you should know that houses arent to be placed in guard zones and that they're only there through a bug.

buying into the latest bug/exploit.. bad investment.
what about before they fixed the guard zones? there was no way of knowing it was a GZ
 

Widow Maker

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Doesn't it just sicken you when someone plays ignorance just to try to take the place of stupidity or greed? :loser::loser:
 

Nystul

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UO has a huge history of crappy publishes, crappy testing, and crappy decisions. Maybe if they spent more time testing them, and then more than one day to decide "oh its good to go, publish it on all shards even though we know we screwed up guard zones" things like this wouldn't happen. All they had to do was delay it another day or so.

But again, history repeats itself (How so predictable).

It's a good thing OSI made a hell of a game. Too bad EA is destroying it w/ elementary decisions.
 

JC the Builder

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Despite me telling people not to, a couple in our own guild had put items in the houses. Luckily it sounds like that almost everything was recovered. But one person had moved everything they own into one of their new home. It is unimaginably cruel what EA has pulled over the past 2 days in regards to these houses.
 
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Aboo

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It is unimaginably cruel what EA has pulled over the past 2 days in regards to these houses.
I don't wish to get into an argument with you but I think the blame lays with the people who placed the houses in the first place.
 
G

Glacier-GL

Guest
Wow, so they're demolishing the keep that I placed, but my 18x18 that I had before this is now slightly worn and will fall and I don't think theres any way I can get it out of the IDOC state since I just placed a house... What the hell... That sucks. So now both my houses are going to fall and I have no where to put all my stuff... Gr... Can we please get this problem address and fixed?

Can I get the idoc status removed on my old house? I had no idea this wasn't intended.
 
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AesSedai

Guest
It is unimaginably cruel what EA has pulled over the past 2 days in regards to these houses.
I don't wish to get into an argument with you but I think the blame lays with the people who placed the houses in the first place.
I agree 100% with Aboo
- me for 3.

Sure, it was 'crafty' to notice or even to read the warning about the guard zone issues and do the math... but to think that it was meant to be a new addition to UO & that housing was meant to be there... yeah, it was 'crafty'...
 
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Glacier-GL

Guest
Someone in other thread mentioned that trial accounts could hold my houses items... my response was --


That's actually a good idea, thank you. I may lose my 18x18 :( , but at least then I could save my items.

Still, this is very annoying, I had no idea this wasn't intended. Someone told me that they opened up new house spots, so of course I placed a house that was in tram and cooler than my 18x18... Of course I didn't exactly realize that I'd in fact end up losing BOTH of my houses. :eek: Pretty frustrated.
 

JC the Builder

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I don't wish to get into an argument with you but I think the blame lays with the people who placed the houses in the first place.
Once again, they said the guard zones went down accidentally but they would be going down anyway at a later date. So you could infer that houses would have been able to be placed later on during the event. Instead of simply warning players not to place houses in these areas, they kept silent.

The blame here is 100% on the developer three-fold. First they screwed up with the removing of guard zones. Second, they don't put out a warning not to place. Third, they just go around deleting houses causing players to lose gold and items. Then the forth screw up is going to be some angry players who lose their main homes over this because they can't get them transferred.
 
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Amathist of PoC

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All I have heard in the last couple of weeks is JC thinks this in unfair JC was treated badly JC wants this changed......news flash the Ultima world does not revolve around JC, if you are hating the game so much ...which is certainly how it seems by every post I have read recently try something else, take a break till bugs are fixed what ever is going to make you happy but please oh please stop the complaining over every little thing.

A mistake was made people took advantage of it ea are fixing it....its that simple. although I honestly think if they had of left the houses you would have complained about that also. They deleted some as was admitted by Jeremy the rest are being left to monday........deal with it mistakes happen they are human too and this is just how things are.

All this crying about unfair treatment of people who knowingly or unknowing break rules is getting on my last nerve. I feel sorry for those who unknowingly break a rule but live and learn. But I do not feel sorry for those who just hope they do not get caught.

I also do not think I have seen a case yet of someone who UNKNOWINGLY made a mistake yet....they have all either thought they were getting an unbelievable deal....which comes under if something seems to good to be true it probably is.......or they have figured they should be above the rules cause well they say so.

GROW UP LIFE HAS RULES OF MANY KINDS YOU EITHER FOLLOW THEM OR YOU BREAK THEM......if you break them the responsibility is yours and no one else's.
 

JC the Builder

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People keep saying that there was a bug exploited here or a rule broken. It isn't as clear cut as that. Jeremy even joked in the announcement post that the mistake will liven things up for the day. Well some did liven things up........by placing houses. Now they come out and just delete players hard earned gold and items without warning and don't try to reconcile the situation at all. All it would have taken is one sentence, "If you place a house in an area where the guard zone is down it will be deleted." But no, they didn't.
 
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Amathist of PoC

Guest
So JC where you one of the houses deleted?? Just curious as no one else has defended it so vemonly and only one person has come forward saying my house was deleted or going to be deleted actually and I want my old house back.
 
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AesSedai

Guest
dang
lol

But no occifer, no really, I'm omniscient I tell ya! No, really, I'm innocent; or at least some of us are and this is just not right!
It is your fault EA: 100% x 3 times even.
I told my pals too and they worked the (obviously broken) guard / new housing-placement system too; so I lay the blame on you EA for having split one mega publish into two and allowing me to take advantage of it.

dang
lol

---

edit: Amathist of PoC: JC said he had a keep placed & that he also told his cronies of the situation; up-above in this thread.
I wouldn't have bothered placing or helping lots of people get their new houses then. Now we have dozens of people stuck with condemned houses that have to figure out how what to do with them..
Apparently this is not true because the Keep I placed is gone.
Where's the wolf? I hear people crying. again.
 

Bomb Bloke

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I also do not think I have seen a case yet of someone who UNKNOWINGLY made a mistake yet....they have all either thought they were getting an unbelievable deal....which comes under if something seems to good to be true it probably is.......or they have figured they should be above the rules cause well they say so.

GROW UP LIFE HAS RULES OF MANY KINDS YOU EITHER FOLLOW THEM OR YOU BREAK THEM......if you break them the responsibility is yours and no one else's.
What rules are you referring to, Amathist?

No rules were set on this matter. EA expanded the housing zones and made no comment that it was illegal to place there until sometime after people had begun to do so.

"Inferred" rules aren't "real" rules. Likewise, you shouldn't infer that everyone who claims foul is really a cheat in disguise. Read the thread, JC isn't the only person complaining.

And might I point out once again that EA has expanded the housing zones before without "changing their mind" afterwards.
 

Harlequin

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During the recent Town Hall, it was mentioned that they are looking at new housing spaces.

Something went in that wasn't intended.

Someone found out new places have been opened up and informed the rest of the community.

Players rushed to claim the new housing spots. Hoping that it was intended since EA has not made any statements.

EA then confirmed that this is not intended and informed the player base.

Some houses are dropped. This is a bit mean, but they have shown that they are not afraid to take action if they think it's neccessary. I also believe certain people would have kept paging the GMs as long as the houses remained.

Placing the house is excusable since players don't want to lose the chance of a really good spot. Moving your stuff in before EA confirms that it's legal, is an in-excusably dumb move.

EA decides to give the owners a second chance. They now have until Monday to drop their houses, as someone said, that's more than fair.

IMO, it's a minor issue. Honestly, neither EA nor the informer nor the placers is to be blamed here.


About selling the houses to other people, I really doubt any have been sold. This includes newbies that rarely played and bought 55 mil worth of gold with RL money but "somehow" knew that housing in a guard zone is worth forking out 55 mil for.

The smart thing to do would be making a post to ask if it's worth 55 mil and if it's legal like winterhawk.



One other thing, I have a grandfathered house in Britain within the guardzone - it was hell during the days where you had to open the door to refresh it, since it decayed twice as fast.

I am told that if I ever sold the house, it will lose it's granfathered status. Not sure if that will mean the "grandfathered" tag will dissappear. However, the owner, GMs/Devs can still see the date that it was placed. Those placed sometime during 1998 all had a date stamp, those that were placed before has a blank date and time stamp. Most of my grandfathered houses pre-dates the dating system.

If you really bought a grandfathered house in a guard zone, I suggest you highlight it to the devs.
 
C

Cami069

Guest
The guard zone homes were placed in Felluca. Chances are good that if you're placing or buying a house in Fel, you're not new, nor are you completely ignorant of the game's rules. Those that placed or bought a Fel guard zone house have until Monday to move their items and drop the house. I think that's more than fair.

Edit: I tend not to think of "guard zones" as a Trammel thing, but after reading the thread it appears it may have also been a Trammel issue. If this also happened in Tram, I still think it's fair to delete the illegal homes on Monday.
 
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D'Amavir

Guest
disagree.. if you've been playing long enuf to be buying a house, you should know that houses arent to be placed in guard zones and that they're only there through a bug.

buying into the latest bug/exploit.. bad investment.
Of course, because everyone in game knows that houses aren't allowed in guardzones. Wait, yes they are, just not these specific houses. But, those that are 'grandfathered' are clearly marked as such so anyone buying one of these houses would know ahead of time. Wait, no they aren't. There is no way to look at a house in a guardzone and tell if its legal or not. But, EA came out as soon as this patch hit test and posted a notice on the login screen that houses in guardzones placed right after this patch would be dropped and not allowed to become 'grandfathered' as other houses placed in guardzones have. Wait, no they didn't. But surely EA devs tested things like house placement in guardzones during the coding of a patch that REMOVED GUARDZONES. Wait, apparently they didn't. But surely EA's QA team testing things like house placement in guardzones during the coding of a patch that REMOVED GUARDZONES. Wait, apparently they didn't either. But, surely surely they put a note on the log in screen asking players to test house placement in guardzones while a change that REMOVED GUARDZONES was on test. Wait, apparently they didn't.

Hmm, you are correct. The blame lays 100% on those few players in game that haven't gone out and mapped every 'grandfathered' house in every guardzone on every facet of every shard in UO like you guys obviously have. You are absolutely right. They are purely to blame.
 
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D'Amavir

Guest
What rules are you referring to, Amathist?

No rules were set on this matter. EA expanded the housing zones and made no comment that it was illegal to place there until sometime after people had begun to do so.

"Inferred" rules aren't "real" rules. Likewise, you shouldn't infer that everyone who claims foul is really a cheat in disguise. Read the thread, JC isn't the only person complaining.

And might I point out once again that EA has expanded the housing zones before without "changing their mind" afterwards.
Shhh, shhh. Logic has no place here. Its quite clear that anyone that placed a house or bought a house in a guardzone (even if it was sitting next to a house that had been allowed in that same guardzone for years) deserves to lose out on whatever they put into it. After all, houses aren't allowed in guardzones! Well, except for all those houses that have been in guardzones for years of course.

And, just for the record for those that haven't put me on ignore because they can't stand someone not agreeing with them, I didn't place a house in a guardzone. I didn't buy a house in a guardzone that was recently placed. I don't know anyone that placed a house in a guardzone. And I don't know anyone that bought a house in a guardzone that was recently placed.

But, right is right. No amount of EA rah rah'ing will change that. They made a mistake, it happens. But, the way the are handling this mistake is wrong. The way they released this patch was wrong. The way they tested this patch before it went to test was wrong. The way they pulled it from test early was wrong. Part of the blame for that last is of course placed on those 'We want it now!' people on these boards. Those same people are the ones now claiming everyone that suffered from EA's most recent mistake was somehow a cheater or greedy.
 

Draconi

Most explosive UO Legend
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Additional points:
  • We would never, ever, do something as life-altering as a planned drop of guard zones around towns, without including that information in the publish notes.
  • We would NEVER open up house placement inside towns without writing that in big, bold letters, in the publish notes.
  • That being said, it was obviously a bug, and exploiting a bug is a direct violation of our ToS.
  • To everyone who claims they could have been scammed/will be scammed by legitimate offers of old houses, I remind you that you *can* check Grandfathered status if you are a friend to the house. If you are ever buying a house in the future (not these, do not buy these), I highly recommend you require the owner to friend you beforehand, so you can check the grandfather/modern status, number of visits the house has had, etc. You'll find this on the "Information" page of the house sign.
 
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Aboo

Guest
The blame here is 100% on the developer three-fold.
I disagree. That's the problem with people nowadays, they can't/wont' take responsibility for their own actions, always trying to blame someone else. *shakes head*
 
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D'Amavir

Guest
Additional points:
  • We would never, ever, do something as life-altering as a planned drop of guard zones around towns, without including that information in the publish notes.
  • We would NEVER open up house placement inside towns without writing that in big, bold letters, in the publish notes.
  • That being said, it was obviously a bug, and exploiting a bug is a direct violation of our ToS.
  • To everyone who claims they could have been scammed/will be scammed by legitimate offers of old houses, I remind you that you *can* check Grandfathered status if you are a friend to the house. If you are ever buying a house in the future (not these, do not buy these), I highly recommend you require the owner to friend you beforehand, so you can check the grandfather/modern status, number of visits the house has had, etc. You'll find this on the "Information" page of the house sign.
I don't think anyone is questioning the fact that this is a bug. The issue is that the fact that some houses placed in guard zones are ok while others aren't is very inconsistent and impossible for the average player to follow without clear information from the dev team.

I assume that the original placing in guardzones was also a bug, yet those houses were allowed to remain while this current instance is not. Do those people that original dropped houses in guardzones using that 'bug' have free reign to break other rules found in the ToS? I would hope not but you never know.

Regardless if someone claims that the removal of guardzones was planned or not, someone was clearly doing coding around guardzones in this patch. Maybe its part of something that should be in patch 56 instead of 55. But, since coding was going on involving guardzones, simply things like testing house placement in guardzones could have completely eliminated this issue from the start. Barring that seeming impossibility, a quick note on the log in screen stating that new houses placed in guardzones would be dropped even if they are sitting beside another house in a guardzone that is legal.

As for friending someone to your house, that's just inviting trouble. Anyone that has played UO for any period of time knows that it has serious bug issues. Scammers use these bugs to scam people. Suggesting that someone has to friend anyone to their house before they sell it just solidifies the opinion that the dev team doesn't really understand the playerbase of their game.

Might I suggest a few other changes that might help us all out?

*Make a change to runic hammers so that if someone holds the hammer in their hand, they can see that it is duped or legal. That way, all a seller has to do is hand over the hammer to the potential buyer so that that buyer can be sure its not a dupe. I don't see any issues with that practice.

*Fix the insurance bug by making it so that anytime you trade your gear to another player, it is automatically insured. That way, all a player has to do to be sure that they won't lose their insured items when a pk kills them is transfer all of their gear to that pk before the attack. Then the pk can kindly return those items once it has been assured that they are insured and then kill their target.

*Remove TC since its clear that every person playing knows instantly and without being told every bug that exists in UO. After all, its not like EA overlooks some bugs while acting aggressively against others. Players should be able to know the difference without any communication from EA at all.

I could go on, but I think you get the point. Or, maybe not.

The bottom line is, EA allows some houses in guardzones while not allowing others. Many players don't know which houses are 'grandfathered' and which are not. A simple note on the house signs would clear it up 100%. But, in typical fashion, the answer is to instead take part in an act that just screams "Scam" to be sure that you aren't scammed. Makes perfect sense to me.
 
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D'Amavir

Guest
I disagree. That's the problem with people nowadays, they can't/wont' take responsibility for their own actions, always trying to blame someone else. *shakes head*
I agree. All those people that placed houses in guardzones illegally all those years ago should take responsibility for the fact that their houses are going to be dropped come monday. After all, housing is not allowed in guardzones. Let me clarify based on the current dev comments on the matter....

"We would NEVER open up house placement inside towns without writing that in big, bold letters, in the publish notes."

I don't recall ever seeing in big bold letters in the publish notes that placing houses in guardzones was legal. So, that's why there will be zero houses in guardzones come Tuesday morning. All is right in the world, I am just glad that the Dev team is finally jumping on this earth shattering bug that has been allowed to continue for so many years.
 

THP

Always Present
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*Dry ya Eyes*

Either drop em or have them dropped

No more sob stories, no more crap.
 
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D'Amavir

Guest
*Dry ya Eyes*

Either drop em or have them dropped

No more sob stories, no more crap.
I agree. All houses in guardzones should be dropped. Give the owners a few days to clear them out and then drop any that remain within guardzones. You have my support of that.
 
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Aboo

Guest
I agree. All those people that placed houses in guardzones illegally all those years ago should take responsibility for the fact that their houses are going to be dropped come monday. After all, housing is not allowed in guardzones. Let me clarify based on the current dev comments on the matter....
It is so sad that you have to resort to this rather than logic.

Sometimes things happen which make us realize that they shouldn't happen. When it happened some time ago it was a mistake. I believe they made it known it was a mistake and that they would let it slide THIS time but for future reference houses are NOT allowed in guard zones. We had warning about this some time back. Now it's happened again and people are crying we didn't get proper notice. I say bunk, you did. Anyone with ANY common sense SHOULD have known NOT to place a house in an area that, has in the past, been illegal and most definitely NOT right after a publish UNLESS there has been something posted saying that EA has intended this change.

It's time that players take some responsibilty for their mistakes and quit blaming EA for EVERYTHING.
 
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D'Amavir

Guest
It is so sad that you have to resort to this rather than logic.

Sometimes things happen which make us realize that they shouldn't happen. When it happened some time ago it was a mistake. I believe they made it known it was a mistake and that they would let it slide THIS time but for future reference houses are NOT allowed in guard zones. We had warning about this some time back. Now it's happened again and people are crying we didn't get proper notice. I say bunk, you did. Anyone with ANY common sense SHOULD have known NOT to place a house in an area that, has in the past, been illegal and most definitely NOT right after a publish UNLESS there has been something posted saying that EA has intended this change.

It's time that players take some responsibilty for their mistakes and quit blaming EA for EVERYTHING.
Logic? You mean like the logic of not testing house placement in guardzones during a patch that included guardzone changes? Or did you mean the logic of having no clear way of identifying 'grandfathered' houses versus those that were recently placed during this recent bug? Or was it the logic that EA didn't see fit to make a small note before all this started to let players know that guardzone housing was not allowed even though guardzones were removed? Just want to be sure I know which logic you want followed.

And, since you obviously don't read posts from those with a different opinion than yours, I will restate again. Those players that placed houses in guardzones get no sympathy from me. They knew that their house was placed using a bug. That's been pretty clear from the start.

The issue, again, is with those players that bought these houses. Not knowing that they weren't grandfathered houses but recently placed house. They didn't knowthis because EA chose not to do anything that would enable someone to tell the difference between the two. People placing houses aren't really suffering (with the exception of those that placed houses causing their other house to go condemned. I don't really feel bad for them since they did know going in what the deal was), all they have to do is drop the house on their own and get all the gold they put into it back. The only people actually suffering are those unlucky ones that bought a house from the current placers.

Sure, its easy to jump in here and lump everyone involved in this situation into the 'greedy' or 'cheater' categories. But, and this may be a shock to someone like you, there are actually some players in this game that don't know the entire history of UO. I know sympathy is not something that every has or can have. But, for some of us, it actually exists.
 
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Sublime69

Guest
If you did not read Draconi's post this publish was NOT supposed to include the guard zone changes. That being said alot of the houses in guardzone were place there 10+ years ago before the "new housing" rules went into effect, punishing vetran players who placed houses when it WAS legal to place in guardzone is no way to solve anything.

Blaming the DEV's for you taking advantage of a bug is ludicrous. I think that anyone getting a house deleted for exploiting a bug should just be glad they are not getting all their accounts banned.

As for the would be scam victims, as Draconi pointed out you can just have anyone trying to sell you a Guard Zone house friend you and look at the information page on the house sign, so you see there IS a way for you to tell whether or not the house you are about to buy is older than 3 days or not.
 

drinkbeerallday

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
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Additional points:
  • We would never, ever, do something as life-altering as a planned drop of guard zones around towns, without including that information in the publish notes.
  • We would NEVER open up house placement inside towns without writing that in big, bold letters, in the publish notes.
  • That being said, it was obviously a bug, and exploiting a bug is a direct violation of our ToS.
  • To everyone who claims they could have been scammed/will be scammed by legitimate offers of old houses, I remind you that you *can* check Grandfathered status if you are a friend to the house. If you are ever buying a house in the future (not these, do not buy these), I highly recommend you require the owner to friend you beforehand, so you can check the grandfather/modern status, number of visits the house has had, etc. You'll find this on the "Information" page of the house sign.
blaming the players as usual. have a nice weekend dude.
 

_zigzag_

Sage
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Stratics Legend
ok folks...this issue is gone round and round...and it's turning in to yet another thread that's just going nowhere.

Once again, I need to remind some of you that taking this to a personal level like you have just isn't appropriate.


*left stickied for the info*
 
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