Honor "annoyance" or bug?

[startle]

Regarding Honoring a monster:

Ok, so I've decided to get my tamer up to Knight of Honor so she can tame GD's easier (and just for fun cause she can). So she's killing Succubus's in the Dojo. What I've notice is this: Once she initiates the "Honor" and receives the Honor message (the one that says she has initiated it), she only receives the "You have gained Honor" message after the kill about 30% of the time.

I think she's doing the exact same thing every time, which is:
She runs up and "Honors" a Succubus and watches for the successful msg.
She then runs away a bit (typically not offscreen), casts an EV, then runs back and drops it in front of the Suc.
She then "Peaces" it, waits the counter, then Discords it.
It dies...
About 30% of the time she sees that she has "Gained Honor".

Why not all the time?

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Best guess: Honor is greatly reduced if you use pets or summons.

So you might only gain enough to warrant the message about 30% of the time.

May want to grab a demon slayer spellbook, or maybe a spell focus sash if you don't have a demon slayer spellbook, and do more direct damage.

-Galen's player

 

[Nexus]

Get a Cu Sidhe and go kill Thrashers in the Blighted Grove.

 

[startle]

Best guess: Honor is greatly reduced if you use pets or summons.

So you might only gain enough to warrant the message about 30% of the time.

May want to grab a demon slayer spellbook, or maybe a spell focus sash if you don't have a demon slayer spellbook, and do more direct damage.

-Galen's player

Wasn't aware of that, but it makes sense... Thx GalenKH

 

[startle]

Get a Cu Sidhe and go kill Thrashers in the Blighted Grove.

Interesting idea... I'll have to check it out... Thx Nexus

 

[G.v.P]

Moving from the spot from which you honor also reduces the honor you gain, as does attacking first, as does using poison.

Honor really is best to gain on a dexxer. I also don't think it decays over time, which is sort of interesting. I've been seeker on one of my necro mages for over two years since I converted him from being a dexxer.

 

[Hunters' Moon]

Regarding Honoring a monster:

Ok, so I've decided to get my tamer up to Knight of Honor so she can tame GD's easier (and just for fun cause she can). So she's killing Succubus's in the Dojo. What I've notice is this: Once she initiates the "Honor" and receives the Honor message (the one that says she has initiated it), she only receives the "You have gained Honor" message after the kill about 30% of the time.

I think she's doing the exact same thing every time, which is:
She runs up and "Honors" a Succubus and watches for the successful msg.
She then runs away a bit (typically not offscreen), casts an EV, then runs back and drops it in front of the Suc.
She then "Peaces" it, waits the counter, then Discords it.
It dies...
About 30% of the time she sees that she has "Gained Honor".

Why not all the time?

You are doing everything wrong in your attempt to gain honor.

Mistake one: Running away. If you truely wish to gain honor 100% of the time,honor the target and stay put. Do not move even one tile,if possible. It's an "honorable" fight after all.How is honor to be gained from running away?

Mistake two: Peacing your target. Don't do it.Ever. This practically blows away any real chance to gain honor.Leave your instrument in the bank. Ideally,you'll want your honored target to hit you first. Be in war mode and pull it to you. Then tab out of war mode and honor. You will not attack first and if lucky,the target will damage you first.Because you are a mage,I personally suggest using a staff of the magi or a spell channeling mage weapon and jewelry.

Mistake three: Using summons/pets to do your damage for you. This,I believe,reduces your chance at honor gains.Use direct damage spells and a mage weapon to deal out the damage to your honored target.

Good luck with your future attempts at honor gains.

 

[[JD]]

why on a tamer are you using EVs?
i don't know what effect peace mgiht have, it could possibly be messing you up.
ive never had a problem gaining honor using a pet. yeah supposedly you gain less but you can kill more of them faster, so it evens out imo.
ive never run off the screen. don't do that.
also you need to make sure you honor them before they BLESS themselves. i would wager if peace wasn't causing your issue you're letting them bless themselves and are not gaining honor.
i have never honored a monster and NOT gotten the "you have gained in honor" message, unless the monster was too low to gain from.

with that said you should be doing two things as a tamer:

1) demon slayer + mind blast + SDI. succubus are cold vulnerable demons, and mind blast doesn't even require eval intel. you'll burn them down fast.

2) the advice about using a CU is spot on. they do great damage, targeted towards the succubus resists, and can heal themselves. it will actually take twice as long to kill a succubus using a greater dragon.

Does anyone know if Fel gives double Honor like it gives double Karma? I found a spot in Fel with Succubus but it is a DEATH TRAP.

 

[Adol]

I'm afraid most of you are actually wrong, helpful as you are trying to be; JD is correct by stating

"i have never honored a monster and NOT gotten the "you have gained in honor" message, unless the monster was too low to gain from."

Succubi should always give it, even if you run far away from it and use any pet you like; I should know, I've grinded that last bubble plenty of times myself for Honor taming, and sometimes had to run quite a distance to stop sudden retargetting! But it's a bug that they suddenly stop reporting Honor at all, and one I've ran into recently too. I wasn't able to locate the cause, and it just stopped of it's own volition, returning to giving the "Gained Honor" message on every kill again for me.

The Cu does indeed kill faster, but most of the conditions listed for invoking Honor are out of date, in that they are only at worst reductive not rejective; you will get some from Succubi what ever you do... Using the Bane Dragon and it's Poison everything for instance gives the same Honor from kills as using a Cu (although not over time of course; but I train all my pets on Succubi when they are strong enough), as can be seen by counting or using Gold claimed for that last bubble as a record (I use a Bag of Sending when there)

 

[startle]

Well, you ALL make very, very good points regarding Honor and the way it "works" or is "supposed to work"... It makes "logical" sense that one shouldn't "run away" after invoking Honor, and how pets could detract, etc.

But let me tell you my experience a bit more. Right now my Tamer (with her "taming" skills SoulStoned and traded for my Bard's) has gained (Honor) from Honor killing Ice Fiends and now Succubus's. She has done it the same way, as I described above. Currently she is a "Seeker" of Honor (on her 2nd "set" of bubbles) and she has gotten this far as described.

After reading all your kind posts, I've come to the conclusion that she would might be better off picking up her Cu Sidhe and getting her taming back off the soulstones. The only reason I have been using "Bard/Mage" skills on her, was because I had read somewhere that you couldn't gain Honor if your pet did the killing - but after reading your comments, I see that's not the case.

I thank all of you for taking the time to respond...

Cheers guys...

 

[WildWobble]

Don`t listen to all the dexxers bashing your attempt at honor training they are right min you but they are also wrong! what you need to do is grab a big pet and go kill SPHINX in t2a honor it and sick your pet on it you will get ok loot and decent gains with little risk a cu or a gd will own the sphinx with a bit of help healing them now and again just don`t move and you will gain it consistantly! seeker-knight you do not gain as much as a warrior would gain doing battle following all the rules of honor but you will gain and thats what matters!.