Hidden Brittle properties: this is really annoying!

[Wizal the Fox]

So I take my Token Of Holy Favor out of my museum to test something and I get hit ONCE by an Ogre, lowering it's durability to 254/255. No big deal I thought, I would just repair it and pof it back to 255 before returning it to the Museum... BUT it turns out it has a hidden Brittle property I wasn't aware of: so it cannot be Pofed back to 255 and now my museum has a piece which doesn't look brand new anymore

I just don't understand why there are a few items with a hidden Brittle property. It is just plain annoying and doesn't serve any purpose. For sure there is also The Redeemer like this (and of course all champ replicas), and I heard reports of other items such as the Warded Demonbone Bracers and/or the Petrified Matriarch's Tongue, and probably several more. One could wander why they put 2 different flags (Brittle showing, Brittle not showing) in the game.

On that specific arty (Token Of Holy Favor) it is even pointless to have it unpofable in the first place, it's not like it is a hugely overpowered item

 

[Redxpanda]

Can't u just repair it? I thought the whole point of the PoF was to add to the maximum durability. If it is 254/255 then it just needs to be repaired right (or am i missing something)?

 

[olduofan]

repair takes 1 point off most times if not all the time i think if my memory severs me well...

 

[Redxpanda]

I thought there was a chance to lose 1 max durability upon repair. Didn't know it was guaranteed. Anyhow, so it's 254/254 now?

 

[olduofan]

like i said i think there is a chance you will lose 1 point not sure tho for sure..

 

[MrMightySmith]

i think he means he cant re powder of fort it back to 255 and theres something preventing it......

 

[Basara]

Repair by a crafter (as opposed to a deed) has a chance of losing a durability point that doesn't reach 100% until you're around 30-60 points below fully repaired, depending on the full maximum durability of the item. The actual formula was given by the devs in one of the Five on Fridays.

 

[John Merchant]

Repair by a crafter (as opposed to a deed) has a chance of losing a durability point that doesn't reach 100% until you're around 30-60 points below fully repaired, depending on the full maximum durability of the item. The actual formula was given by the devs in one of the Five on Fridays.

Basara, does that mean you always lose a point if you use a deed?

 

[JoO]

Items in a museum should have some wear. Half the beauty of an artifact is the patina.

 

[Basara]

I think that the deeds have a penalty that works out to something like the 100% chance of the point being lost occurring about 30 points sooner than if a crafter of the same skill level was repairing it. I'll go look for the exact numbers.

 

[Wizal the Fox]

Yeah the stupid bracelet is 254/254 now... I didn't use a deed so I had a chance not to loose durability, just bad luck that I did.... but this is not the point. The point is I can't fortify it back to 255/255, meaning it is in fact Brittle without showing it.

 

[Thiefy/Glorfiedel]

Worldwide Release - Publish 67 | Mythic Entertainment | Ultima Online


it isnt a "hidden" property.

 

[puni666]

So I take my Token Of Holy Favor out of my museum to test something and I get hit ONCE by an Ogre, lowering it's durability to 254/255. No big deal I thought, I would just repair it and pof it back to 255 before returning it to the Museum... BUT it turns out it has a hidden Brittle property I wasn't aware of: so it cannot be Pofed back to 255 and now my museum has a piece which doesn't look brand new anymore

I just don't understand why there are a few items with a hidden Brittle property. It is just plain annoying and doesn't serve any purpose. For sure there is also The Redeemer like this (and of course all champ replicas), and I heard reports of other items such as the Warded Demonbone Bracers and/or the Petrified Matriarch's Tongue, and probably several more. One could wander why they put 2 different flags (Brittle showing, Brittle not showing) in the game.

On that specific arty (Token Of Holy Favor) it is even pointless to have it unpofable in the first place, it's not like it is a hugely overpowered item

FFS, REALLY!?

 

[Basara]

From November 16, 2007 FOF:

"I'm a Legendary Smith - why do I lose durability points so often when I try to repair things?"
"Because there's a pretty high base chance to lose a point of durability" seems to be the simple answer. The formula is as follows:

Chance to lose Durability = ((40 + Max Durability) - Current Durability) - (repairSkill / 100) (where repair skill is Test Center-style, i.e. GM = 1000, not 100.0)

Example: Blacksmithing of 1100 (110.0), 50 current and max durability, yields a 29% chance that max durability will be reduced by 1. If an item has taken more than 71 points of damage, the chance for it to lose a point of durability reaches 100% even for a Legendary smith. So there's a definite choice to be made - do you repair early and often, and risk failure, or late and seldom, and guarantee it?

So, for something 254/255, at GM skill, that's (295-254) - 10 = 41-10 = 31% chance of durability loss if you repair.

For skills that top out at 100 skill:
70 durability points down is 100% chance of a max durability loss

For tailor at 120 (and smiths not using an ASH):
72 durability points down is 100% chance for loss, and lowest chance without loss is 29% at 1 point down.

For 120 Smith using +60 ASH:
78 points down is 100% chance for loss, and lowest chance without loss is 23% at 1 point down.

Repair deeds have a substantial negative modifier (my guess is that they get something like another 20, 30 or 40 points penalty)

 

[Raptor85]

While this is wonderful information it's completely irrelivant to the question that was asked, did anyone here even read the OP? The complaint is that this item Token of Holy Favor - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia which clearly does NOT have the brittle property listed on it does not allow pof to be used on it, as if it were a brittle item. He's stated multiple times even in the first post that the problem is not that it lost durability, but that it won't allow him to re-increase the cap to 255 on a non-brittle, non-imbued item.

Now, if i were to guess, I'd say it's an issue with jewlery, is there any jewlery pof works on? I can't think of any other non-imbued/non-brittle jewlery with durability, so maybe as part of being a one of a kind item they never bothered to add in the ability to use pof on jewlery.

 

[Kojak]

I think you should dust the mona lisa next

 

[Wizal the Fox]

The complaint is that this item Token of Holy Favor - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia which clearly does NOT have the brittle property listed on it does not allow pof to be used on it, as if it were a brittle item. He's stated multiple times even in the first post that the problem is not that it lost durability, but that it won't allow him to re-increase the cap to 255 on a non-brittle, non-imbued item.

Now, if i were to guess, I'd say it's an issue with jewlery, is there any jewlery pof works on? I can't think of any other non-imbued/non-brittle jewlery with durability, so maybe as part of being a one of a kind item they never bothered to add in the ability to use pof on jewlery.

You may be right, it may actually be something not intended... in other words a bug.
What about:
- Demon Bridle Ring
- Ring Of The Soulbinder
- Enchanted Coral Bracelet
- Petrified Matriarch Tongue
I think those 4 have durability (and like the Token Of Holy Favor, no Brittle tag either). Anyone ever tried to PoF those?

 

[Harlequin]

This isn't going to make it less frustrating for the OP, but the reason these items do not show the brittle property is that the property did not exist until a year later.

SA (and the SA arties) was released in Sept 2009 (Pub 60).

The Brittle property was only given a name / introduced in Aug 2010 as part of Pub 67.

They try to avoid retro-actively changing the older items unless there's a balance issue.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

You may be right, it may actually be something not intended... in other words a bug.
What about:
- Demon Bridle Ring
- Ring Of The Soulbinder
- Enchanted Coral Bracelet
- Petrified Matriarch Tongue
I think those 4 have durability (and like the Token Of Holy Favor, no Brittle tag either). Anyone ever tried to PoF those?

tried the Demon Bridle Ring, Nada. There is Already a known bug there tho, as the repair message is often incorrect, leading to the item being needlessly repaired more times than required, dropping extra durability points. I think this is probably over a year old so expect a fix 'soon'. I just assume Anything with a durability rating <w/o Self Repair greater than 1> will lose durability, which mean all jewelry regardless of origin. Someone started a thread about items that are indeed brittle, but w/o the tag, so yeah, if it's a new tag that's gonna be used, then it should be applied across across the full spectrum of items.

 

[Mervyn]

so...

When i raise this issue:

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/258076-suggestion.html

I get trolled off the board, but if a trammel player says it that makes it ok?

 

[Raptor85]

your point was a little different, you were talking about taking the existing tags of "imbued", "replica" and "faction item" and changing them to the "brittle" tag, which honestly isn't that big of a deal as those tags already mean brittle + more so a second tag would be redundant and actually further expand the ever growing wall of text items have on them, it's no harder to look up what those tags mean that it is to look up what brittle means. This thread is more about the fact that there are items with absolutely no status tag at all that act as if brittle

 

[Viper09]

so...

When i raise this issue:

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/258076-suggestion.html

I get trolled off the board, but if a trammel player says it that makes it ok?

I looked through that post so clearly you have a different definition of "trolling" than most. Also the two topics, despite discussing a property of "brittle," are different.

 

[Wizal the Fox]

so...

When i raise this issue:

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/258076-suggestion.html

I get trolled off the board, but if a trammel player says it that makes it ok?

Your post was related to the lack of Brittle tag on imbued items and Champ Replicas. While it wouldn't hurt to add it, at least they are tagged as "imbued" or "[Replica]", so we know we can't fortify them.

But here we are talking about items which are NOT imbued, NOT replicas, and which have no tag AT ALL, and STILL CAN'T BE FORTIFIED. Hence why we don't even know if it's intended (in which case this is plainly stupid) or a bug.

On a side note, I'm getting sick of people replying to posts without even reading or understanding them. Is it me or is the younger generation incapable of focusing on a message longer than a SMS or a Tweet?

 

[Petra Fyde]

I think, though this is only my guess, that the reason it can't be powdered is because it's a bracelet.
Most bracelets and rings don't have durability, under normal circumstances only imbued ones do. So, any bracelet or ring with durability seems to be being treated as if it's an imbued item - and of course imbued items cannot be powdered.

 

[Mervyn]

so...

When i raise this issue:

http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/258076-suggestion.html

I get trolled off the board, but if a trammel player says it that makes it ok?

Your post was related to the lack of Brittle tag on imbued items and Champ Replicas. While it wouldn't hurt to add it, at least they are tagged as "imbued" or "[Replica]", so we know we can't fortify them.

But here we are talking about items which are NOT imbued, NOT replicas, and which have no tag AT ALL, and STILL CAN'T BE FORTIFIED. Hence why we don't even know if it's intended (in which case this is plainly stupid) or a bug.

On a side note, I'm getting sick of people replying to posts without even reading or understanding them. Is it me or is the younger generation incapable of focusing on a message longer than a SMS or a Tweet?

So I must learn that "imbued" and "replica" means brittle...you must then learn that "token on holy favour" means brittle.

You dirty trammel

 

[Wizal the Fox]

I think, though this is only my guess, that the reason it can't be powdered is because it's a bracelet.
Most bracelets and rings don't have durability, under normal circumstances only imbued ones do. So, any bracelet or ring with durability seems to be being treated as if it's an imbued item - and of course imbued items cannot be powdered.

I agree, but that doesn't say if it is intended or a bug...

 

[Viper09]

I think, though this is only my guess, that the reason it can't be powdered is because it's a bracelet.
Most bracelets and rings don't have durability, under normal circumstances only imbued ones do. So, any bracelet or ring with durability seems to be being treated as if it's an imbued item - and of course imbued items cannot be powdered.

I agree, but that doesn't say if it is intended or a bug...

It may be an oversight. I don't recall any jewelry having durability (or at least observable durability) when PoF was first introduced. So it may be likely that when they started adding jewelry with durability they didn't think about PoF.