Funny you should say that...my fella was going to set up a wee shop, then he realized chat was a lot more convenient and cheaper than vendors. It worked really well for him
Wenchy
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Wenchy
Number 1, this is not real life but a game, an entertainment product intended to bring leisure to the customers paying for it.
Number 2, when the players competing to get a Bazaar Vendor have much varied forces (wealth...), chances are that unless the Developers put in safeguards to protect those who have less means, the Bazaar vendors will go to those players who have most means to get them.....
Now, if there were plenty of these bazaar vendors so that any and all players could get them it would not be a problem. But since my guess is that they will be in a limited number, that some players will get them it means others will not.......
And this has nothing to do with desire. I have played the game long enough to have seen a whole lot of griefing going on in UO.
I would not be surprised to see a Player A who has no desire to get a Bazaar vendor and a Player B who really needs it and has much desire to get one.
Thing is, in this theoretical example, that Player A is much more well off and has more financial means to win any bidding over Player B unless the Developers put in some sound safeguards to prevent that. I would not be surprised to see cases where Player A, just to make Player B upset, will take that Bazaar Vendor away from Player B even if Player A has no need and no desire for it.
Besides, even if we want to drive parallels with the real life, there is plenty of protection in real life for weaker people. Laws, anti-trust Agencies to protect weaker companies and protect competition and blah blah. Taking care and protecting the weaker party happens every day in the real world.
I do not see why it could not be also in a computer game where people pay for entertainment.
Funny you should say that...my fella was going to set up a wee shop, then he realized chat was a lot more convenient and cheaper than vendors. It worked really well for him
Wenchy
I guess it depends on the shard and whatever players are logged at a given time then, because most often I see bad comments on Chat of players annoyed by vendors/buyers' SPAM messages. And sometimes the comments are really nasty towards those trade spammers.....
Now, imagine the Chat channel flooded by hundreds of players all Spamming their buying and selling messages, multiple times.........
I am not sure how many players would keep their Chat Channel open....
That is what I have been trying to say, apparently without much success.
A Vendors' Global Search System cannot be worked around because, as you correctly point out, the resources flowing into the economy, are unlimited.
On the other hand, what such a system could bring to the game is, finally, IMHO, an equal footing among players when it comes to vending capabilities which would enhance competition and help fight inflation.
I really think that such a search engine would be a great addition for the game.
Not all shards are the same. Some shards there are other options for players. But the point is, you don't have to use a vendor to trade.
Wenchy
Except that Player A could use his resources (wealth) to pay for an account that would show as limited resources, and thus still outbid Player B.
IMHO, in UO, I think that if a player really wanted a Luna vendor, that it is not that difficult to do so. It is even easier to place a vendor somewhere and drop runes in Luna and at gates to attract customers.
Also IMHO, if these bazaar vendors become reality, it will be for people who obtain a very desireable item, do not have a vendor or do not like to vendor, but want to sell it. Rent a vendor at the bazaar, and go to town. After a week, or whenever you are done with your vendor, you are done with it.
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FishinFool
Guest
Sorry, but that is not cornering a market. We are in a constrained and distorted market. With a proper search function that would not be possible or profitable to accomplish. Simply put, it is not possible to be available 23/7 to continually purchase everything for resale at a higher price. It will be easy to spot people who do this and take action accordingly.
This brings into a sharper focus the difference between the real value of items versus someone's perceived value.
This system will benefit sellers as well as buyers. The only people who stand to "lose" anything are the people who are renting vendor slots for exorbitant prices.
Luna is a mess of poorly organized vendors, and frankly is a running joke for most people who disparage the game.
This brings into a sharper focus the difference between the real value of items versus someone's perceived value.
This system will benefit sellers as well as buyers. The only people who stand to "lose" anything are the people who are renting vendor slots for exorbitant prices.
Luna is a mess of poorly organized vendors, and frankly is a running joke for most people who disparage the game.
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soulstoner
Guest
Right. The General & Help Chat channels became polluted with a good deal of rudeness and spamming (at least on Atl) - hence, I turned em off after bout couple weeks of OMG
. Though I like the concept of them - they just got kinda derailed by .......
..
Special occasion/events are good use for the Chat system.
HHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Go read post #72. Looks done to me, myself and I. It is a gold sink, you want it you pay for it. Sorry no freebies in UO.
K
Kiminality
Guest
Popps... You would make a terrible game designer...
Saying "Here is a new feature, but you can't use it because you're too established" is terrible. There is no other word for it.
It's so backwards that you're telling people "you can have this prime vendor spot, but when you're successful enough, you can't have it any more".
That is not how you make a game fun.
I know you "must dissent", but you're still wrong, no matter how many ways you word the same flawed idea.
If you had an ounce of talent at designing game systems, then you'd have suggested a dual system.
In one location, you have a bazaar set up, with a maximum item sell of something like 50k, which will deter those wanting to sell expensive items.
In the other location, like next door to it, you have ones with no sell limit, which the rich people that you hate so much can devour with their terrible capitalistic ways.
Saying "Here is a new feature, but you can't use it because you're too established" is terrible. There is no other word for it.
It's so backwards that you're telling people "you can have this prime vendor spot, but when you're successful enough, you can't have it any more".
That is not how you make a game fun.
I know you "must dissent", but you're still wrong, no matter how many ways you word the same flawed idea.
If you had an ounce of talent at designing game systems, then you'd have suggested a dual system.
In one location, you have a bazaar set up, with a maximum item sell of something like 50k, which will deter those wanting to sell expensive items.
In the other location, like next door to it, you have ones with no sell limit, which the rich people that you hate so much can devour with their terrible capitalistic ways.
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RavenWinterHawk
Guest
Poppssyour are wrong.
At any given moment there is X amount of a resource or item.
At any given moment there are buyers for that resource or item.
You are not running the market on what COULD COME IN THE FUTURE.
You are doing it based on what is available.
200 crystals found in vendor search.
I buy them all
I sell them while they are in demand.
Others collect them as I am a selling.
I make my gold.
The price goes down.
I buy them all up again for LESS GOLD
I sell them them for a gain
OTHERS collect them and rinse and repeat.
You dont know what your are talking about.
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RavenWinterHawk
Guest
I owe three people pints now.
Absolutely but as I pointed out, at least the game would be benefitted from it because the increased revenues from the newly opened account would bring more resources to the game.
Besides, if the time limit is set between 6 to 12 months, this would mean having to pay from 60 to 120 dollars to qualify for a Bazaar vendor. I am not sure how many players already having access and, in some cases, wide access (multiple Luna/Zento houses or access to prime location vendors through friends or Guilds...) might be willing to spend 60 to 120 bucks just in spite of some other player when they do not even need such a Bazaar vendor.....
Sure, a few might do it but overall, I think the money to be spent might be a deterrant high enough to keep the issue under control.
I do not know.
If Bazaar vendors are assigned on the basis of the higher bidder, this means that they will only be worth for expensive high end items that might justify the high cost sustained for the bidding. This outright cuts out new or returning players who do not have the funds to compete in the bidding nor such expensive items to sell that might justify it.
Personally, I would have more liked to see the Bazaar Vendors used as a local "flea market" specialized by towns but the bidding system will make this hardly possible.
As I said, the more they will cost because of high bidding competition, the more they will need to carry expensive items that justify their cost and so bye bye to local flea market and to availability to new or returning players.....
In your theoretical example, there is an assumption on which the paper Castle stands on, that the re-seller can steadily resell the goods at least at the same rate if not faster than the same goods keep popping up on the market.
Because, if the buyers are limited like in a game as Ultima online is now, with scarcer population, the re-seller risks seriously ending up buying way more than they can re-sell and even if they have a margin, they will eventually see their stock of purchased goods grow and grow and their stocked gold decrease and decrease.
The re-seller has no other option but having to buyout all goods they want to corner out there. If they leave out some the buyers will go there and not to the re-seller.
But it is to be seen that the re-seller will be able to actually re-sell them as fast as the goods keep popping up, at reduced prices, on other vendors......
My take, is that it is not possible as FishinFool said in a game like UO with unlimited resources and this is why I think a Vendors' Global Search System would be so usefull for Ultima Online and a great addition.
Fail. Player A uses in game gold to pay for his account. No money flows to EA to support the game. Your Player B still cannot get a vendor (well he can, but your player B doesn't want a vendor bad enough to actually go tto Luna and get one, or place runes to their vendor somewhere else, etc.)
QFT!!!!
Well said, very well said......
Your words find me in agreement. The sooner the game gets a Vendors' Global Search System, the better.
It's so easy for ANY player to make gold in this game by selling items. I will say again so you can understand Popps... It's so easy for ANY player to make gold in this game by selling items. I dont even have to explain how because many threads you have started and derailed have explained it before a million times.
If you feel the bazaar is such an issue PM the devs. You do not speak for returning players and you sure are not speaking for new players because UO atm is not having a huge influx of new players. So you have no idea what they are thinking or concerns. Im pretty sure the last thing a new player starting in UO is thinking about bazaar vendors. I think they would be focused more on charcater developement which will make them gold by killing monsters.
Housing would be the 2nd most important then bazaar vendors to a new player. Vendors you can get for free or small fees from most players so that is covered.
The issue is the haves and haves not. I am one of the have's. You must be a have's not. I became a have's because I put effort and time to achieve my gold. Sold stuff from a vendor house north of luna about 10 screen shots away around a mountain side past some woods. I advertise with runes. I under sold luna prices. I ran all my vendors. I had plenty of luna owners come buy my cheaper items and they resold it for more. Big deal if they resold it. I made a ton of gold for my needs. Thats how it works in real life.
Plenty of times my vendors would have to be restocked while their luna vendors would be full and selling my stuff they bought. Big woop if they made more gold at higher prices. I made quick and easy gold with lower prices. I was the Walmart, The Dollar general, The Dollar Tree of UO I cant tell you how much gold in my entire UO career but when I have a surplus of 850 mil on my accounts that I didnt even need to touch tells you its not hard to make gold.
Killing monsters in the game and looting them is an easy way to make gold. I'm so cheap and greedy that I would even loot off a dead mongbat. So UO is and has more than just a Bazaar to make gold.
If I lived on stratics complaining about every issue and taking up a cause for players that most likely dont have an issue because they dont care, it's the last issue on their mind, they dont even know about it, or they are totally new and just want to play, I be a have's not person.
Really dont care how the Bazaar Vendor is going to work. Hell they may never add it. Many times they mention stuff and it never happens.
If I was a new player checking out UO and came across this thread and the way you make it sound that the Bazaar ( even though you dont know how it is really going to work yet as the rest of us) if I dont get on the bandwagon and the rich gets them, then I dont even have a chance to compete in UO at all. The boy that cried wolf but in this story the wolf is the boy.
If you feel the bazaar is such an issue PM the devs. You do not speak for returning players and you sure are not speaking for new players because UO atm is not having a huge influx of new players. So you have no idea what they are thinking or concerns. Im pretty sure the last thing a new player starting in UO is thinking about bazaar vendors. I think they would be focused more on charcater developement which will make them gold by killing monsters.
Housing would be the 2nd most important then bazaar vendors to a new player. Vendors you can get for free or small fees from most players so that is covered.
The issue is the haves and haves not. I am one of the have's. You must be a have's not. I became a have's because I put effort and time to achieve my gold. Sold stuff from a vendor house north of luna about 10 screen shots away around a mountain side past some woods. I advertise with runes. I under sold luna prices. I ran all my vendors. I had plenty of luna owners come buy my cheaper items and they resold it for more. Big deal if they resold it. I made a ton of gold for my needs. Thats how it works in real life.
Plenty of times my vendors would have to be restocked while their luna vendors would be full and selling my stuff they bought. Big woop if they made more gold at higher prices. I made quick and easy gold with lower prices. I was the Walmart, The Dollar general, The Dollar Tree of UO
I cant tell you how much gold in my entire UO career but when I have a surplus of 850 mil on my accounts that I didnt even need to touch tells you its not hard to make gold.Killing monsters in the game and looting them is an easy way to make gold. I'm so cheap and greedy that I would even loot off a dead mongbat. So UO is and has more than just a Bazaar to make gold.
If I lived on stratics complaining about every issue and taking up a cause for players that most likely dont have an issue because they dont care, it's the last issue on their mind, they dont even know about it, or they are totally new and just want to play, I be a have's not person.
Really dont care how the Bazaar Vendor is going to work. Hell they may never add it. Many times they mention stuff and it never happens.
If I was a new player checking out UO and came across this thread and the way you make it sound that the Bazaar ( even though you dont know how it is really going to work yet as the rest of us) if I dont get on the bandwagon and the rich gets them, then I dont even have a chance to compete in UO at all. The boy that cried wolf but in this story the wolf is the boy.
THIS
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RavenWinterHawk
Guest
READ THE ONE BELOW. THIS POSTED TWICE.
R
RavenWinterHawk
Guest
Popps its not theoretical number 1.
Your not talking about buying recall scrolls or chopped wood now are you.
Your talking about bigger things (maybe things you dont have)
Yes everything is endless... not everything is available in 10 minutes. Like the items that demand 10 million or 20 million. You think global search will fix that. Come on...
Becaue a global search doesnt create items, only finds items, I can run the tables on what every item I wish if we had global search.
Let me put it to you this way. The resources and crap you hide behind as competitive and easily farmed in UO... is cheap. It sits available on vendors now.
Its the more lofty stuff, you want.
PS you example makes no sense. If you want to attach sense to your point... give me an example... are you talking recall scrolls, potion, ingots, wood, tangles, hair dye.... You know what you speak... your example stinks.
Well, this might be true for some things, although I remain skeptical.
A bigger question is why would you? Having a global search is unlikely to affect your gameplay other then perhaps trimming profit margins a tad.
The game for merchants would stay substantially the same. Those that work the hardest to keep their vendors stocked and competitive will always prevail.
Actually, some of the harder working merchants are the ones I think will fall foul of resellers. When you've dealt with these reseller folk in small doses, you know what to expect if they have a new search engine to make it easier. One persistent reseller can be troublesome, several at once...no thanks. New search engine = more resellers at a time + new customers. Expect some shop owners to get fed up of restocking constantly.
It will be abused. I'm sorry, but it will. You won't stop merchants buying cheap and selling for more. You can't then stop merchants closing shops because they're tired of restocking and playing price wars with Luna traders. Few merchants want to play trade wars
I'm lucky, I can plonk my vendors in Fel, and abuse my "no town fighting" rule. Tram merchants don't have that option.I expect the devs will inevitably cave in to folk screaming they want this search, but I think this is a real case of "be careful what you wish for".
Wenchy
Other games have auction systems and vendors with search. And although they do suffer from some reseller nonsense, I don't think it is that bad.Actually, some of the harder working merchants are the ones I think will fall foul of resellers. When you've dealt with these reseller folk in small doses, you know what to expect if they have a new search engine to make it easier. One persistent reseller can be troublesome, several at once...no thanks. New search engine = more resellers at a time + new customers. Expect some shop owners to get fed up of restocking constantly.
It will be abused. I'm sorry, but it will. You won't stop merchants buying cheap and selling for more. You can't then stop merchants closing shops because they're tired of restocking and playing price wars with Luna traders. Few merchants want to play trade wars
I expect the devs will inevitably cave in to folk screaming they want this search, but I think this is a real case of "be careful what you wish for".
Wenchy
I have to say that as a small time woodworker in another game I have had fair success. Sure I get rolled by resellers now and again. But I price my goods at what I wanted to get for them and in the end, don't care if they resell them for more. More power to them, it just creates an easy market for me.
For the casual player and those not interested in maximizing gold production, resellers can actually be viewed as beneficial.
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RavenWinterHawk
Guest
A global search engine would enhance profits.
The reason I dont want it... is the same reason I think repair deeds, recall and other items that remove player interaction shouldnt be in this game.
The game took a move to being able to play alone in your house. Recall to where ever or use similiar. Fix all your stuff yourself. Having the ability to sit at home and search is just the wrong path.
I would take your argument over Popps. Popps trys to make it sound like it would fix the problems of unscrupulous players. You make it sound like why not just have it as a on option. Your argument is as good as mine.
Just keep it mind... I would make more with less work with global search. I dont need the gold.
To me part of the game is finding vendors and vendor house and building relationships. Nothing other players can't do. Standing at a vendor search kill thats.
OH an my answer to vendor search. Allow people that want things do a SELLER SEARCH. The buyer can post on the boards what they want to buy. Sellers can go to the boards and make the transaction happen. Think about it.
Sort of like a quest... any player crafter, treasure hunter can go to the BUYING BOARDS. See a player has deposited 20k for X ITEM. The crafter can make it. Select swap and they buyer gets the items and the seller gets the gold.
Mini quests generated by players. Another brilliant idea the DEVS wont use.
Now all you global search guys can put in you buying request and see who shows up to deliver you the goods you want.
Ok, now I understand your objections. But I don't agree.
Many many games over the years have tried to force or strongly encourage player interaction. And they have pretty much proven that it doesn't get them very far.
People that don't want to interact won't. Those that do will. If you don't provide the options for those that don't want it, they are more likely to just leave your game instead of conforming it.
The game should be all about options, as open to all playstyles as possible. Redistricting things only drives portions of your potential playerbase away.
The key word in this whole thread that hasn't been used is the word CHOICE.
It's the player's choice on how they want to spend their gold and how much.
It's a player's choice if they want to have and run a vendor mall.
It's a player's choice not to have vendors but play the game and PvM or PvP for enjoyment.
It's a player's choice if they want to spend an X amount of gold on an item from a vendor or choose their luck with the RNG and gain said item.
It's a players choice to play UO the way they want to play it.
It's a players choice if they like to search for items and good deals by actually searching in the game.
It's a player choice on how rich they want to be in UO by either gold, items, housing or friendships made. Being rich can be defined by many things not just how much gold you have.
I can go on and on but when you take away choice you take away the players.
Vendor global system coding would be alot of work for the game in UO with the large land masses and many facets. The beauty of UO is the exploration of a land that many dont do much now days. You know how cool it was when you find that vendor in the middle of nowhere that had prices that were a steal. The person that ran it always had it stocked and talked to you if they were there. Thats what UO should be and is about. Take away more interaction by adding a global system just makes UO a more single player game in the end.
Yes I have a choice if they added such a system to the game to use it or not. That just makes it easy for me if I did use it. Making UO easier is definetly not UO in my book. Plus when it gets all easy then you get bored really quick and go off and play other games.
It's the player's choice on how they want to spend their gold and how much.
It's a player's choice if they want to have and run a vendor mall.
It's a player's choice not to have vendors but play the game and PvM or PvP for enjoyment.
It's a player's choice if they want to spend an X amount of gold on an item from a vendor or choose their luck with the RNG and gain said item.
It's a players choice to play UO the way they want to play it.
It's a players choice if they like to search for items and good deals by actually searching in the game.
It's a player choice on how rich they want to be in UO by either gold, items, housing or friendships made. Being rich can be defined by many things not just how much gold you have.
I can go on and on but when you take away choice you take away the players.
Vendor global system coding would be alot of work for the game in UO with the large land masses and many facets. The beauty of UO is the exploration of a land that many dont do much now days. You know how cool it was when you find that vendor in the middle of nowhere that had prices that were a steal. The person that ran it always had it stocked and talked to you if they were there. Thats what UO should be and is about. Take away more interaction by adding a global system just makes UO a more single player game in the end.
Yes I have a choice if they added such a system to the game to use it or not. That just makes it easy for me if I did use it. Making UO easier is definetly not UO in my book. Plus when it gets all easy then you get bored really quick and go off and play other games.
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Woodsman
Guest
I initially rejected auction houses and searches because I happened to have made a lot of gold on the WoW auction house when I played WoW - certain things are needed by certain groups on certain days, and I would make it a point to constantly buy out those things and then set the price on those days. It helps that there are auction house add-ons that help you track prices, including over time.
I also felt that it would remove player interaction.
I've since changed my mind for a few reasons. I don't necessarily support an auction house, and a vendor bazaar kind of fits into that, because I think it removes some player interaction. The vendor bazaar is probably going to happen, and because of what's involved, I think it will not be as appealing to the scripters as some think and I think it might change things up a bit. I think the New Magincia houses will still be more popular than the vendors in the vendor bazaar.
I do support a vendor search however, provided it makes the players visit those vendors, whether they are in Luna or outside of Vesper. In that instance it's no different than somebody dropping runes at a bank, it's just a little more organized. If I drop runes and log out, there's not that much player interaction anyways - no different than somebody finding my vendor through a global search.
I also support a vendor search because there is a search engine right now, if you live in Luna or Zento or have vendors there. They will probably add New Magincia as well. Either the devs shut those scripters down that are powering those search engines, or they offer it to everybody or preferably both. We can't pretend like it doesn't already exist and that people aren't benefiting from it.
If they shut down the scripters powering those sites and don't offer a vendor search, that would be okay as well as far as I'm concerned, because at least things would be fair.
It's a tricky situation. The devs want new players and are working on the changes needed for new players. New players are going to be used to global interaction (auction houses, messaging, etc.) and I think it needs to be looked at. UO doesn't have to be turned into a clone of any other game to bring in new players, but given that many games borrowed from UO, I think UO should borrow a few things from them, that players have come to expect and benefit from. The EC is an instance of UO borrowing from other games and it was very logical - new players are used to interfaces that they can dramatically customize to fit their own needs and tastes.
I would actually place a true communication system at the top of the list after graphics/new player stuff/revised quest system. As I said, the beginnings of one are in place - the New Magincia plot winners got a glimpse of it. That is something that the crafting folk could benefit from - it would allow them to more easily take orders and interact with customers.
Right now, spamming general chat, bulletin boards, and the containers masquerading as mailboxes are a poor substitute for such a system. A good in-game communications system would help out many crafters and could build many relationships. I know there is ICQ and other forms of chat, but those are out-of-game and new players are going to be used to true in-game communications systems.
I'm aware of a few of those games, I tend to keep my merchanting to UO only though so I can't really say anything about resellers elsewhere. But my experience running a shop in UO is that resellers can be a pain already. Giving them a search engine enables more of them to be troublesome than before. I just can't see resellers ignoring that opportunity.
As things stand, I can avoid dropping runes and gates for a while if I need a break from restocking camped vendors. A search engine wouldn't give you that. You're visible all the time, including when you're on holiday or busy in RL. If vendors look empty when someone first visits, they might not return. Unless we get an option to delist and relist ourselves, this control would kinda vanish. I value the small control shop owners have in marketing.
I think that's a fair point, but I've always offloaded stock in bulk through trades with specific resellers. If I want to generate gold really quickly I do tend to look at trading in person first. Then I can get a modest price rather than market value, but I've made some gold and emptied secures of much needed space.
Wenchy
I honestly fail to see the merits of the concerns....
I mean, if player A playes the game, gets some items and puts them on a vendor at a price they feel happy with, then comes re-seller B, buys that stock that player A put on a vendor at a price satisfying for player A, what is the issue here at all ?
Fact is that player A sold his stock at the price he was happy with. He sold the items at the asking price folks !!!
I would guess this is good news for player A, right ?
Then what re-seller B does with the purchased items is not player A's problem.
The concern that player A had was sell the stuff at the price it was put up for on the vendors. The items sold.
That's the part of the story that matters I think.
Tired of restocking ??
Excuse me ? Aren't we talking about selling stuff on vendors ? If one gets annoyed of restocking vendors because they are actually selling the stuff, then why on earth one has vendors to start with ??
We are complaining that a player actually sells the wares at the price they were put up on vendors ? Does this make any sense to anyone here ??
Close shops for excessive selling ?
Now that's some news to me. I thought the one purpose to have a vendor was to sell goods and that vendors not selling would be closed down not those who actually steadily sell their inventory........
Yet, it seems now that selling goods actually now closes shops.
And this makes sense to anyone ??
I am not worried at all and have hardly any concerns about a Vendors' Global Search System. I expect great things for Ultima Online from such a System.
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Woodsman
Guest
Games that force or strongly encourage player interaction can succeed, but they have to encourage/force player interaction from the beginning, and they have to remain fairly consistent. The EVE Online community relations manager said one time, something to the effect that EVE wasn't designed to look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it was designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world. They've been consistent about what EVE was from the beginning and what it still is, and they've made a success out of that.
Because UO was really the first of its kind, it was hard to design what it was going to be from the beginning because nobody knew what all UO would be. I think it was Richard Garriott who said he never expected the crafting stuff to take off like it did, and he talked about how that has carried over into other games, especially browser-based games. Others that worked on UO early on said they would have done things differently had they realized that certain things such as housing and crafting would become so important to so many people. When they designed UO, they had an incredibly short term view of it - a handful of servers, play with it for six months, a year or two, and then build the next UO using that they learned from the previous one.
Had UO consisted of 95% of players who just wanted to fight it out amongst each other, we'd have a different UO these days, but it turned out there were a lot of people who wanted to spend a lot of time mining and blacksmithing and tailoring and so on, while others wanted to just fight monsters and still others wanted to fight each other.
Nobody told them that they couldn't just be a miner and blacksmith or a tailor or whatever.
UO also benefited from player housing and an item ownership that is unrivaled in any game. I think if you could upgrade the graphics for those using modern displays (which EA said they are doing), and I think if you had good marketing who understood UO, you could pull in a lot of new players who would be blown away by the options present within UO, especially with housing and item ownership and crafting and the like.
I know I'm not the only one who look at a lot of the Facebook games and think those people would go crazy in UO and stick to it for years.
I hope they do some kind of in-game vendor search, and from comments that Supreem made, they understand that it would be bad to devalue player housing in general with an auction house. The bazaar thing I think (and hope) will be something that remains in New Magincia, and that is meant to replace the lack of certain NPCs.
Some people run vendors to provide a service.
Rather than doing it to make a profit, they do it because they want to help other players.
W
Woodsman
Guest
There are already search engines out there and while I'm sure many resellers take advantage of them, resellers have been present in the game from almost the beginning.
Long before Luna, I can remember dropping runes and having people come in and buy me out of a lot of things, and then coming across their shops that were selling my stuff after I saw runes offering similar things at the banks. If I saw something I thought was too cheap, I would do the same.
An in-game legal search engine, if done properly, would let you drop your vendors out of the system. In another thread I suggested they make it a gold sink of sorts - charge a small fee to have your vendor listed (not per item, but per vendor), just like your vendors charge a fee every day. Don't make it automatic, make it opt-in.
An in-game vendor search would give a lot more smaller vendors a presence and put more people on an equal footing, but it does need to be opt-in. Would unscrupulous people take advantage of it? Sure, but they've always done that in UO, whether it was scooping up runes at the banks in 2001, and buying out those stocks and then stocking that stuff on their own vendors, or following the illegal search engines in 2011.
I do not see the problem here.
Players would search the Vendors' Global Search System for "items", not owners or global inventory.
If I am looking for, say, a Tangle, I could not care less if the vendor in some remote area only has that Tangle on it and nothing else, if the price it is selling for, is the right one for me.
The owner is on Holiday ? The vendors are empty ? Who cares if they have the Tangle I need at the price I like........
Then when the owner restocks the vendors with, say, other items including a Crimson, if I need a Crimson and I find it there at a price I like, I would certainly go back there for my shopping of a Crimson even though I have found empty vendors there before.
This, because I would know that if the Vendors' Global Search System says that there is a Crimson selling at a given price and I like that price, if I walk there or recall there if I already have a rune to the place, I will find the item I am looking for at the price I want.
I really see no problems whatsoever here.
S
soulstoner
Guest
I'm not too concerned about auctions and bazaars if I'm honest. I'm happy to promote my shop the way I always have, I'm not afraid of new malls and the like. It's purely the search side of things that I dread arriving. I accept that players may eventually get the devs to make a search engine, but I would much rather they banned the site bots and looked at other ways to improve trading.
For example, not including the price of goods when they're found in a search listing. Or give shop owners the option to show or hide their prices. And also delist their shop if they go on holiday or want a break. Popular shops can take a lot of time restocking! What I don't want is some poor merchant logging on one day to find their entire shop empty because they were the unfortunate "cheap" shop on the list. I think customers like finding a bargain, it would be good if merchants weren't left with the choice of being camped or raising prices to Luna levels. And players could find that awesome deal on a vendor by doing a bit of looking around in game. Search engines will just push shops towards adopting a higher "market price"
Deffo my preferred option
I do agree communication needs a fair bit of work. I've had to rely on bulletin boards, books and mailboxes, but none really "works". Being able to login and find orders and PMs from customers, guild messages left for me..that kinda thing would IMO be a much better use of dev time.
Wenchy
That confuses me.
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soulstoner
Guest
???
Me, actually, but not on Europa any more.
As a crafter I used to make items to sell, and enjoy that someone would come along and buy my goods to furnish their house or equip their warrior. I'd spend an hour or so every day crafting and stocking the vendor. I got a reputation as a reliable source because I stocked them diligently. Then resellers discovered my vendors. The whole stock was cleared in 5 minutes, my regular customers found my vendors empty and my reputation for reliability was at risk. I could either spend all day, every day, trying to maintain a stock for the regular player, I could become slave labour for the re-seller stocking the vendor once per day for him to clear it, and forget about the regular customer shopping for his own needs, or I could put my prices up and up till the re-seller stopped buying. At which point the regulars wouldn't buy either because I priced myself out of the market. I no longer have vendors on Europa. I make stuff to order for people who ask me sometimes.
As a crafter I used to make items to sell, and enjoy that someone would come along and buy my goods to furnish their house or equip their warrior. I'd spend an hour or so every day crafting and stocking the vendor. I got a reputation as a reliable source because I stocked them diligently. Then resellers discovered my vendors. The whole stock was cleared in 5 minutes, my regular customers found my vendors empty and my reputation for reliability was at risk. I could either spend all day, every day, trying to maintain a stock for the regular player, I could become slave labour for the re-seller stocking the vendor once per day for him to clear it, and forget about the regular customer shopping for his own needs, or I could put my prices up and up till the re-seller stopped buying. At which point the regulars wouldn't buy either because I priced myself out of the market. I no longer have vendors on Europa. I make stuff to order for people who ask me sometimes.
Funny, I didn't think you would...
Popps, don't try teaching a girl how shopping works
Some customers (apparently not you) look at other vendors when they arrive at a new shop. Some players amazingly never use the search engines, so we pay attention to other vendors and keep runes to the good ones. If I find a shop I like I'll always check what else they sell and their prices. Then I know that shop has cheap x, y or they're good at restocking z. I might care that my customers see a well stocked shop. I don't expect you to care about it, but I want visitors to see my shop when it's stocked if I can.
Wenchy
S
soulstoner
Guest
To address some of the concern raised in various posts, I would like to offer:
A vendor search could be for items, not vendors. If you vendor is empty, nothing shows up.
Vendor system as it exists stands. If you want to develop a dedicated clients to your secret shop, carry on as before and don't list your vendor (see below).
A fee for adding your vendor could included.. opt in. Small gold sink.
A central search location could be used.. say an NPC at the WBB. A central location encourages at least as much interaction as we have now.
You could pay a nominal fee for a item search. If you find an item you like, pay an additional fee for the vendor name and location. Or pay even more for a rune dropped in your backpack. A central location encourages at least as much interaction as we have now. Also a small gold sink.
Resellers: well, its a free market economy. If you don't want to chop more wood then don't until you are ready. Your listing won't show up and you won't waste customers time with empty bags.
In any case I believe this is all pie in the sky given the game's aging data base and the development resources and server loads required. But it can be fun to imagine.
A vendor search could be for items, not vendors. If you vendor is empty, nothing shows up.
Vendor system as it exists stands. If you want to develop a dedicated clients to your secret shop, carry on as before and don't list your vendor (see below).
A fee for adding your vendor could included.. opt in. Small gold sink.
A central search location could be used.. say an NPC at the WBB. A central location encourages at least as much interaction as we have now.
You could pay a nominal fee for a item search. If you find an item you like, pay an additional fee for the vendor name and location. Or pay even more for a rune dropped in your backpack. A central location encourages at least as much interaction as we have now. Also a small gold sink.
Resellers: well, its a free market economy. If you don't want to chop more wood then don't until you are ready. Your listing won't show up and you won't waste customers time with empty bags.
In any case I believe this is all pie in the sky given the game's aging data base and the development resources and server loads required. But it can be fun to imagine.
Popps is a master troll. Every once in a while one of his threads manages to stay open after it's purpose has been served, which is usually early on. Unlike that vollus thread. However I don't think he was really trying hard to turn it into another pointless "debate."
That's because there actually was no Global Listing and your one single shopjut happened to be "discovered" all of a sudden.
On the contrary, "if there had been a global listing, just like your shop there would have been other shops available at convenient prices.
What the Global Search would do is put everyone on an equal footing. Had this system been available back at the time of your example, you would have been available to figure out a better average price for the goods you were selling thanking to the Global Search utility and so you would have been able to price your wares more knowledged of the market.
Furthermore, this would have made your shop more "in Line" with other players' shops that had more convenient pricing and this would have made it less likely for your shop to fall prey of re-sellers.
That is, the Global Search Utility would have actually aided your shop and you to be more knowledged of how much it would have been preferable to price your wares.
Yet another example that shows how needed is a Vendors' Global Search System and how it could come in aid of a vast majority of players, one way or the other.
F
FishinFool
Guest
I challenge you to name any (commercial) one that is on the market.
The only way this can happen is in a seige-type environment and even then will get distorted through multi-accounting and soulstones.
We are so far beyond that point today to even have it as a valid argument.
I love these types of comments. Actually it isnt alot of work. I believe it was Fertbert, when this first came up a few years ago, whipped up a basic vendor search function in a couple hours.
Ultimately, everything in the game is in a database - accessing it is simply a matter of writing a query and dumping the results into a gump.
K
Kiminality
Guest
This could be the most wrong you've ever been.
You analysis demonstrates a frankly alarming lack of understanding for how things actually work.
My counter-argument is... Something like... Pretty much the opposite of everything you've claimed will happen...
If it was so basic and so simple then why was it never put in the game back then?
Or......was it like the ones that sites use now that just run around Luna and Zento only.
Some seem to forget when players were QQ over a global chat system. UO finally got it and now there are complaints about it because how it is being used and the language. The same could go for a global vendor search if it happened.
Plus look at the size of the Dev team when Ferbert was on and look at the size the one UO has now. He may of done a basic code and tried some items but on each facet and covering all the land masses I highly doubt it.
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Woodsman
Guest
EVE Online - the example I cited. They are even working on a second player-driven MMO, Dust 514, that will take place within the EVE Online universe and players from both MMOs will interact with one another. It is about as player driven as you can get. While there is PvE, the driving factor is player interaction. Systems are controlled and developed by players, and with the Dust 514 MMO, it will be taken to a new level, encouraging even more player interaction to gain sovereignty over systems.
It was always designed to be that way though - the early EVE developers looked to the early days of UO to see what worked with PvP and player interaction, and they have talked quite a bit about the influence of UO on it. They make unpopular decisions at times, but player interaction is still the driving force behind it, and they are only going to increase it with their new MMO.
UO on the other hand, as a whole, it's changed direction and intent a few times. Some of it was deliberate and meant to put UO on a specific course, while some of it was more of a quick reaction that was undertaken without thought given to the long-term consequences.
That's not to say that little things here and there can't be done for UO to bring back player interaction, but then again a major problem of player interaction is the lack of players.