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Help Please: Triton not using special moves

MeTheGreat

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
So I got a decent triton (126 wrestling and 224 str) and decided to make it into a two-magic pet, with the thought of using armor ignore, feint and chivalry.

All was going well until I switched it from bushido (for feint) to chivalry.
Now, since I switched its magic, it has not used armor ignore or feint once -
which I know from watching damage ticks and listening for the sound effect from either.
It constantly cycles between chivalry spells, but not the special moves.

I submitted a bug report and received a reply that they could not do anything for me.

Does anyone have any tricks or suggestions, or am I out of luck?
 

MeTheGreat

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
I first chose bushido, then feint and armor ignore; I then switched to chivalry after I 120'd bushido.
 

popps

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Is there a particular reason why pets' training has been Designed in such a convoluted way that players have a hard time to figure out what is the right way to train them ?

Why does it HAVE TO BE so much frustrating ?

I do not get it.
 

MeTheGreat

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Update: Since I had a few unspent training points, I re-selected bushido.
When bushido is active, the triton uses armor ignore and feint.

Upon re-selecting chivalry, the special moves once again are not being used.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
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They use Feint effectively. Go to Navrey or other long fight and look at the damage taken. You should notice it cuts in half once in a while.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
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Stratics Legend
Mine is at Navrey now. 26 damage drops to 13 damage when he used Feint. Same build.
 
Good evening. SO from reading your thread on Tritons I picked Bushido at round 2 and chivalry at final round. My chivalry is going up normally but my bushido is stalled. So under Lore and Knowledge it shows Chivalry and bushido with their respective %%. I have AI and Feint as special abilities. Will Bushido continue to rise or will it be stuck at 59.3?
 

Keith of Sonoma

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Good evening. SO from reading your thread on Tritons I picked Bushido at round 2 and chivalry at final round. My chivalry is going up normally but my bushido is stalled. So under Lore and Knowledge it shows Chivalry and bushido with their respective %%. I have AI and Feint as special abilities. Will Bushido continue to rise or will it be stuck at 59.3?
Bushido will continue to rise, but the pet only has a chance to raise it when using the special move. It WILL take a while!!
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
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Stratics Legend
Good evening. SO from reading your thread on Tritons I picked Bushido at round 2 and chivalry at final round. My chivalry is going up normally but my bushido is stalled. So under Lore and Knowledge it shows Chivalry and bushido with their respective %%. I have AI and Feint as special abilities. Will Bushido continue to rise or will it be stuck at 59.3?
Yup, as above, it will go up as it uses it. Fight things that take a while. Navrey, T Rex, Great Ape. Have to fight stuff.

You did not need to choose Bushido. Feint adds the Bushido passive. As long as your Lore and Knowledge looks like the one above, they will both increase.
 
I have fought Nav 100 times and Bushido is still at the same mark. Once I get chiv to 120 I am going to rechoose Bushido (only costs 1 pt) and that will allow Feint to work.??
 
Yup, as above, it will go up as it uses it. Fight things that take a while. Navrey, T Rex, Great Ape. Have to fight stuff.

You did not need to choose Bushido. Feint adds the Bushido passive. As long as your Lore and Knowledge looks like the one above, they will both increase.
 

Attachments

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
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The first pic says it has Chiv and Bushido that is a passive for Feint.

Bushido only increases when the pet uses Feint. Have to fight and make it use Feint.

Pet is built correctly.
 

Khaelor

Certifiable
Governor
Stratics Veteran
TWO "MAGICAL ABILITIES" CANNOT BE ADDED TO A PET AND HAVE THE PET USE BOTH.

In fact, when you attempt to do so, you get a warning screen stating it will lose previous magical abilities.

What can be done is when you add an ability like feint, bladeweave or nerve strike is a PASSIVE form of bushido or ninjutsu will be added to your pet. This addition is for damage/damage reduction calculations ONLY and that is Because the potency of the move is affected by the bushido/ninjutsu skill. This is why you can scroll the pet with feint for 120 bushido, is so feint can be more effective.

Adding feint (and with it the passive bushido) and then the magical ability bushido and then magical ability chiv, removes both passive and active bushido from being used, it also messes up previously given special moves. Making it so pets no longer use feint or even ai. It won't gain bushido because both passive and active forms of bushido are considered removed. You can add feint (with the passive bushido) and then chivalry and have the pet still use feint (and gain the passive bushido in the process).

Again, there is no such thing as two magic pets. The exception being, things like Rune beetles, skree and shadow wyrms that spawn with two magics active. You cannot train a pet two have two magics. You can add abilities, like feint that will passively add a form of bushido that's is used ONLY for damage calculations, passive bushido. That is not a two magic pet.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
TWO "MAGICAL ABILITIES" CANNOT BE ADDED TO A PET AND HAVE THE PET USE BOTH.

In fact, when you attempt to do so, you get a warning screen stating it will lose previous magical abilities.

What can be done is when you add an ability like feint, bladeweave or nerve strike is a PASSIVE form of bushido or ninjutsu will be added to your pet. This addition is for damage/damage reduction calculations ONLY and that is Because the potency of the move is affected by the bushido/ninjutsu skill. This is why you can scroll the pet with feint for 120 bushido, is so feint can be more effective.

Adding feint (and with it the passive bushido) and then the magical ability bushido and then magical ability chiv, removes both passive and active bushido from being used, it also messes up previously given special moves. Making it so pets no longer use feint or even ai. It won't gain bushido because both passive and active forms of bushido are considered removed. You can add feint (with the passive bushido) and then chivalry and have the pet still use feint (and gain the passive bushido in the process).

Again, there is no such thing as two magic pets. The exception being, things like Rune beetles, skree and shadow wyrms that spawn with two magics active. You cannot train a pet two have two magics. You can add abilities, like feint that will passively add a form of bushido that's is used ONLY for damage calculations, passive bushido. That is not a two magic pet.
He is not expecting to get bushido moves. He is expecting the pet to increase bushido when it uses Feint.

Which it should. Mine have over 115 bushido and chiv. Or over 115 ninja and chiv with FWW.

Don't try to convolute this. He is not expecting to get lightning strike and other bushido spells.

He just wants the Bush to go up when the pet uses Feint.

If it not going up and you have points left you could erase chiv by putting Bushido on. Increase the Bush skill then add chiv back. That would cost 2 points.

The pet should increase in Bushido when using Feint. Whether khaelor thinks so or not.
 

The Doctor

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
He is not saying it is now using both full magics. He is saying that he did full bushido after adding feint in part due to the low cost but also to raise bushido to make feint have a bushido of 120 for optimal results. Then he took away magic bushido by adding chivalry as he intended to do from the start knowing it would no longer cast bushido spells but would now get the effect of bushido at 120 because it was easier to raise than just by using feint. Once he switched to chivalry he is saying that it no longer cast feint or armor ignore. He had points left so he applied bushido as the magic again and it was using both again. So I believe the issue was once chiv is on it no longer would feint.
 

The Doctor

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I first chose bushido, then feint and armor ignore; I then switched to chivalry after I 120'd bushido.
If it is a bug it may have resulted from choosing bushido as the magic first then feint. Maybe replacing the magic caused it to erase the bushido in feint as well because the majority of the points were spent in the magic section instead of the special moves section. If this is happening it would have to be tested by putting them on in the same order.
 

Khaelor

Certifiable
Governor
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He is not expecting to get bushido moves. He is expecting the pet to increase bushido when it uses Feint.

The pet should increase in Bushido when using Feint. Whether khaelor thinks so or not.
You and I have two vastly different levels of reading comprehension, particularly to what is going on in this thread.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
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Yes we do. Brood will have to clarify. I was under the impression he wanted an AI/Feint/Chiv pet.
And is asking why the Bushido is not going up.

From what he wrote I do not think he was expecting to get any other Bushido specials.

Hey @The Doctor, I'm in Vegas right now Elvis would had no idea that it would change so much!

Free drinks rule!
 

The Doctor

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Just went to test center to try a few things. Did Bushido first then AI then Feint (it would use AI and Feint) and then changed to chivalry and it would not use them. Did Feint AI then Bushido ( would use AI and Feint ) then added chivalry and it would not use them. Both when changed back would use them. Since the order does not cause the loss of special moves then maybe it is caused by whirlwind from the Bushido magic being removed bugging out the special moves.

Adding feint (and with it the passive Bushido) and then the magical ability Bushido and then magical ability chiv, removes both passive and active Bushido from being used, it also messes up previously given special moves. Making it so pets no longer use feint or even ai. It won't gain Bushido because both passive and active forms of Bushido are considered removed. You can add feint (with the passive Bushido) and then chivalry and have the pet still use feint (and gain the passive Bushido in the process).
This is thread is the first that I have heard of this bug. Wish I had run across any post on this before.
The only thing I can think to tell the OP in this case is to report this bug to the devs, it is easy to replicate as I did myself.
You may have a Bushido Triton for now but I would save a few points should the day come this is fixed you can make it chivalry again. I have been working a Triton with just feint on it no magics or AI to raise Bushido on it and was getting ready to try the method mentioned by the OP to gain faster, I am glad I came across this information.

@Pawain hope you enjoy Vegas Baby!
 
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The Doctor

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I just tested adding bushido by itself with no special moves. If I replaced bushido with chiv then added feint and AI it was working that way. Further testing reveals that the same thing will happen with frenzied whirlwind and ninjitsu.
 

Khaelor

Certifiable
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Just went to test center to try a few things. Did Bushido first then AI then Feint (it would use AI and Feint) and then changed to chivalry and it would not use them. Did Feint AI then Bushido ( would use AI and Feint ) then added chivalry and it would not use them. Both when changed back would use them. Since the order does not cause the loss of special moves then maybe it is caused by whirlwind from the Bushido magic being removed bugging out the special moves.



This is thread is the first that I have heard of this bug. Wish I had run across any post on this before.
The only thing I can think to tell the OP in this case is to report this bug to the devs, it is easy to replicate as I did myself.
You may have a Bushido Triton for now but I would save a few points should the day come this is fixed you can make it chivalry again. I have been working a Triton with just feint on it no magics or AI to raise Bushido on it and was getting ready to try the method mentioned by the OP to gain faster, I am glad I came across this information.
Original poster did not mention he did it to gain bushido faster. But there have been several references from people with issues trying to create "two magic tritons". I am wondering if they did not know active bushido did not have to be added to get feint. I've tested this pretty extensively previously, you dont even need feint, just replacing Bushido with Chivalry when there are special moves added before Chivalry can bug out special moves. This is a further reason why this "two magics pet" verbiage should have ceased long ago.

Any magic school given in conjunction with a special move is a passive version and should be referred to as passive. Pets can only have 1 Active magical ability at once (which would be an ability trained through the Magical Ability menu).
They can, however, have an Active Magical AND a Passive Magical (which is what the OP was trying to accomplish). What the original poster did was run into an unfortunate bug, however this was very possibly caused by the two magic triton verbiage confusion.

However, care should be taken to think of how the dev's would fix this, would they take the easy route and remove the ability to switch magicals on a pet or actually find the root cause of the problem. Just something to think about.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
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Original poster did not mention he did it to gain bushido faster. But there have been several references from people with issues trying to create "two magic tritons". I am wondering if they did not know active bushido did not have to be added to get feint. I've tested this pretty extensively previously, you dont even need feint, just replacing Bushido with Chivalry when there are special moves added before Chivalry can bug out special moves. This is a further reason why this "two magics pet" verbiage should have ceased long ago.

Any magic school given in conjunction with a special move is a passive version and should be referred to as passive. Pets can only have 1 Active magical ability at once (which would be an ability trained through the Magical Ability menu).
They can, however, have an Active Magical AND a Passive Magical (which is what the OP was trying to accomplish). What the original poster did was run into an unfortunate bug, however this was very possibly caused by the two magic triton verbiage confusion.

However, care should be taken to think of how the dev's would fix this, would they take the easy route and remove the ability to switch magicals on a pet or actually find the root cause of the problem. Just something to think about.
So I should have given a step by step guide to build a pet that uses two magics. One an active and one a passive. As stated more than once In this thread.
Seems like step by step is more beneficial to the community. I won't make that mistake again and not do step by step guides like you requested. Thanks
 

Khaelor

Certifiable
Governor
Stratics Veteran
So I should have given a step by step guide to build a pet that uses two magics. One an active and one a passive. As stated more than once In this thread.
Seems like step by step is more beneficial to the community. I won't make that mistake again and not do step by step guides like you requested. Thanks
Reading comprehension. You are jumping to conclusions that are not stated nor implied.

I actually answered people's questions in this thread and tried to explain what was happening and clarify confusion some people seem to have and you attacked me in your response to me without you actually understanding the issue people were having. It would be appreciative if you stopped trying to troll and/or incite me. Thank you.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Good evening. SO from reading your thread on Tritons I picked Bushido at round 2 and chivalry at final round. My chivalry is going up normally but my bushido is stalled. So under Lore and Knowledge it shows Chivalry and bushido with their respective %%. I have AI and Feint as special abilities. Will Bushido continue to rise or will it be stuck at 59.3?
Please provide the exact order you added the abilities and magics so others can replicate. Or it fits what Dr. Already confirmed.

You did nothing wrong. The lore screens show that the pet should be increasing in both Chivalry and Bushido.
 
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The Doctor

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
To sum up what I have tested: if the special move has the same magic as the magic that is being replaced it will no longer fire off any special moves, this would be a ninja/bushido issue. I did a test with bushido, FWW ,and AI and when I replaced bushido with chivalry both moves did work. Also tested with chivalry, feint ,and AI and when I changed to disco the special moves still worked. The only time I found bushido replacement to not cause special moves to not fire ( when they involved feint ) was when I had bushido with no moves then changed to chiv then added feint and AI, so this seems like it may be the way to train bushido up for a pet that is going to go chiv later. I would recommend a test center try first as I will do again before I attempt such.

@Pawain my friends call me Doc, cause I am always on Holiday....
 
Please provide the exact order you added the abilities and magics so others can replicate. Or it fits what Dr. Already confirmed.

You did nothing wrong. The lore screens show that the pet should be increasing in both Chivalry and Bushido.
First round I did Resist, strength, base damage
Second round I picked Bushido
I picked Chivalry last.
I left some points for scrolls and it shows option for Bushido and if I choose it costs zer0
So my thought is once I 120 chivalry I am going to go bushido and train that to 120 and also see if chiv works or not.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
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Im back.

Both Magics go up on the ones I made a while back.

upload_2019-7-28_2-5-53.png

upload_2019-7-28_2-6-18.png

So, if this is a bug it does not ruin the ones already made.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
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First round I did Resist, strength, base damage
Second round I picked Bushido
I picked Chivalry last.
I left some points for scrolls and it shows option for Bushido and if I choose it costs zer0
So my thought is once I 120 chivalry I am going to go bushido and train that to 120 and also see if chiv works or not.
Your screen shot shows you added feint.
You do not have that in your choices. When did you add it?
 
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