[Bushido] Help me get my PvM sammy template in line please? ;)

[Old Wolf]

Howdy all,

Feel free to answer just parts of my questions below if you don't want to do them all... any answers are appreciated so much!

I think my PvM sammy needs a face lift, so I thought I'd come and let you all tear him apart.

Here's the template I'm currently planning to adjust to:
120 Fencing
120 Bushido
120 Parying
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
90 Resist
70 Chivalry

As far as his suit goes, I'm currently running with a nearly all 70s suit, with higher physical resist so that with protection he's still at about 70 (I get fiercely annoyed when I'm receptively interrupted). The suit contains a great deal of MR and LMC, so mana is never a problem for me. I'm looking at starting to use Kama's for weapons, with the advantage of whirlwind (I seem to be stuck in the midst of mobs a lot, such as in doom).

Here's what I've come to ask:
1. What template adjustments would you suggest? I'd hate to give up resist, but would it be worth it for vamp form (I should add that I have all the vamp form pieces, but I'm reluctant to mess up my suit for them)?
2. What stats would work well for the template. Right now I'm sitting at 125 dex, something like 55 int, and the rest in str. I've never been good at choosing stats. :X
3. Any suggested changes to me suit? I'm lacking in DI, HCI and DCI (I might have a bit of all three, but not much).
4. Anything wrong with using Kama's as my weapon of choice? Would someone suggest something else for fencing?

Thank you very much for any help you can give me, I really appreciate the input!
OldWolf

 

[Starla]

You should drop resist and change to tactics. That will increase your damage output. Bring along trapped box to break para (very useful) and orange petals (optional)

If you are going for vamp form, then the template will be very cramped and its another story altogether.

I have all melee skills in soulstones, and by far I think macing works best. A diamond mace hits hard and is one-handed. For fencing, I prefer to use leafblade. Kama is good for whirlwind. The other fencing wep that has whirlwind is Lajatang (spell?) but to get one with good stats is going to be very difficult.

If you go elf, you will get more mana and can distribute the remaining stats to str and dex. You seems to have low strenght from your post. My elf sampire runs on 110 str , 120 dex , 25 int. With greater str potion ( I have 40+ EP on suit), purple petal and HPI from armor, I am usually running at 150/150/45 when I am preparing for a big fight.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'd suggest this template:

Wep Skill 120
Bushido 120
Parry 120
Tactics 100
Necro 100
Spirit Speak (or Resist or Anatomy) 100
Chiv 60

Str 110
Dex 125
Int 20 (go elf for the extra 20 mana

You can swap Spirit Speak for Resist or Anatomy depending on what you're fighting. This makes for a very versatile character that can do whatever you want it to at peak efficiency.

 

[paralyzed]

im also in the midst of rebuilding my sammy aswell, thanks to the nut kick from ea

ill have to try to cram necro onto him somehow, at this time im thinking along the lines of

120 mace
120 bushido
110 Parry
99 necro
90 tactics

this is where i get stuck, leaves about 166 points left and i still have no anatomy/healing or chiv

chiv is a must i think, probably lock it at 65/70 giving me 100 points left, im going to need some serious +skill rings/braclets i think, this will be more complicated than i thout, maybe forget heal/anatomy, get spirit speak, and then get some +DI rings/bracelets, sorry to the op this gives no answers, but isnt it nice to know you arent the only one at a loss?

 

[Connor_Graham]

im also in the midst of rebuilding my sammy aswell, thanks to the nut kick from ea

ill have to try to cram necro onto him somehow, at this time im thinking along the lines of

120 mace
120 bushido
110 Parry
99 necro
90 tactics

this is where i get stuck, leaves about 166 points left and i still have no anatomy/healing or chiv

chiv is a must i think, probably lock it at 65/70 giving me 100 points left, im going to need some serious +skill rings/braclets i think, this will be more complicated than i thout, maybe forget heal/anatomy, get spirit speak, and then get some +DI rings/bracelets, sorry to the op this gives no answers, but isnt it nice to know you arent the only one at a loss?

You should look at the template I posted above.

 

[Old Wolf]

I have all melee skills in soulstones, and by far I think macing works best. A diamond mace hits hard and is one-handed.

I'm a little confused about what you say here... with pary/bushido, isn't 1 handed a disadvantage? Or am I'm out of date (it wouldn't surprise me)?

I'd suggest this template:

Wep Skill 120
Bushido 120
Parry 120
Tactics 100
Necro 100
Spirit Speak (or Resist or Anatomy) 100
Chiv 60

Str 110
Dex 125
Int 20 (go elf for the extra 20 mana

You can swap Spirit Speak for Resist or Anatomy depending on what you're fighting. This makes for a very versatile character that can do whatever you want it to at peak efficiency.

I'm not sure I could survive without healing... how do I make up for that? Does the vamp form really leech that much?


Thanks for the answers so far!

 

[Connor_Graham]

Spirit Speak can be used for healing as well as Confidence from Bushido. Between the leech from Vamp form, and these 2 methods of healing, you should be just fine against just about anything.

For your question about 1 handed weapons, there is only a 5% difference in Parry chance between a 1 and 2 handed weapon.

 

[Old Wolf]

For your question about 1 handed weapons, there is only a 5% difference in Parry chance between a 1 and 2 handed weapon.

Well, I should have rephrased that. I know it's not a huge penalty, what I was wondering is why he wrote it as though it were an advantage to have a 1 handed weapon? Is there an advantage there?

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Not sure who you are referring to, but like Connor said...there is really not a dramatic difference. I have only tinkered with said template, but I would say basically due to using a one-handed weapon you can equip a shield to help boost HCI/DCI. I have heard of people just using soul seeker or a good scimitar.

It just really boils down to if you think you already have enough HCI/DCI. Ornate's and other weapons are nice due to their damage putout. And, some people might laugh but I like the no daichi (not sure if I spelled right) as well.

But, with the 2 before-mentioned weapons, you gotta have SSI on them I would say to help you leech and keep your health up.

 

[nemo]

I'm currently re doing my sampire too.
After reading all the threads I decided to go for the following.

swords 120
parry 104. heading for 120 cap
tactics 120
bush 101 heading for 120 cap
chiv 74
necro 35
spirit speak 62, heading for 100

I'll have about 30 points left which i'll prob put into ss or necro
I got bored training ss last night so i went for a play. First i tried a greater dragon, which was no prob so I then went to find a para balron and to my surprise managed to go toe to toe and kill him no probs.

I was a bit dubious about dropping healing but curse weapon is pretty awesome. I'm using wraith form, and before i fight i chug a greater str, then honour. My damage is down a little due to no anatomy but the cusre weapon and mana leech of wraith form more than make up for it....better than my sampire ever was.

I have greater heal and greater cure pots on my hotbars, and have the following gear.Oh and i also have protection cast to stop spell interruptions.

mace and shield glasses
jackals collar
fey leggings
primer on damage removal
essence of battle
brace with HCI 12%, DCI9% DI24% - will change when i find better
tunic, gloves and sleeves to fill out resists which are -

Phy 70 after protection
fire 70 in wraith form
cold 69
poison 70
energy 71

Hci is only 12 at the moment (use lightning strike)
Dci 34
Di 74
Lmc is only 8, but i've found in wraith form i don't need more at the moment.

Str 136
dex 120 (was 140 but i still hit at max speed with soul seeker, and don't have to use bandies anymore)
int 49

As soon as i've got the skill up i'm gonna go try dread and see what happens, i'm fairly optimistic as i managed him on my sampire.It does take some getting used to as there are so many keys to keep pressing...not as easy as some people think.

If any of you more experienced wammys have any advice i am more than happy to take it.

Also forgot to say i have a trapped box, as i have no resist spells and if i get para'd for more than 3 or 4 secs i'm toast.

 

[Old Wolf]

I'd suggest this template:

Wep Skill 120
Bushido 120
Parry 120
Tactics 100
Necro 100
Spirit Speak (or Resist or Anatomy) 100
Chiv 60

Str 110
Dex 125
Int 20 (go elf for the extra 20 mana

You can swap Spirit Speak for Resist or Anatomy depending on what you're fighting. This makes for a very versatile character that can do whatever you want it to at peak efficiency.

Alright, so I'm more or less convinced, albeit not too happy to give up my healing. It's like loosing a friend.

Quick question with this then, do the effects of vamp form and curse weapon stack? Because I can see where that would lead to all the HP I might ever need.

Thanks,
OldWolf

 

[nemo]

Not sure who you are referring to, but like Connor said...there is really not a dramatic difference. I have only tinkered with said template, but I would say basically due to using a one-handed weapon you can equip a shield to help boost HCI/DCI. I have heard of people just using soul seeker or a good scimitar.

It just really boils down to if you think you already have enough HCI/DCI. Ornate's and other weapons are nice due to their damage putout. And, some people might laugh but I like the no daichi (not sure if I spelled right) as well.

But, with the 2 before-mentioned weapons, you gotta have SSI on them I would say to help you leech and keep your health up.

Only thing is if you do use a shield you might as well bin parry because you have almost no chance to parry when using a shield with bushido

Just checked and it's 5%

 

[Connor_Graham]

Alright, so I'm more or less convinced, albeit not too happy to give up my healing. It's like loosing a friend.

Quick question with this then, do the effects of vamp form and curse weapon stack? Because I can see where that would lead to all the HP I might ever need.

Thanks,
OldWolf

Yes they do, and you can also use Confidence if you get hit with lethal poison to heal in between damage ticks and Spirit Speak as a handy backup.

Ain't Necro wonderful?

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Only thing is if you do use a shield you might as well bin parry because you have almost no chance to parry when using a shield with bushido

Just checked and it's 5%

Yeah you're right. There are other template ideas in another thread that has to do with not using parry in a template. Duku I believe is the person's name had an interesting template I thought. Like I said I like Ornate's and No Daichi so that I can ensure I'll parry and get the bonus.

It's actually neat not having to worry about healing with bandage but it wasn't a big deal since a long while back I used curse weapon anyways. Not that that's saying much...just I know that it seems foreign when you're used to using bandages.

Another good weapon is radiant scimitar if you have nice stats on it and want some something different from a soul seeker. Downside is the fact that it is a one-handed weapon.

 

[Old Wolf]

Well I took the plunge and soul stoned healing and anatomy, and upped parry and bushido to 120 (currently working on bushido... have to dig up what the trick was for parry).

Thanks to everyone for your help, I'll try to remember to post my results once I get to try it out.

 

[von Beck]

I'd suggest this template:
Wep Skill 120
Bushido 120
Parry 120
Tactics 100
Necro 100
Spirit Speak (or Resist or Anatomy) 100
Chiv 60

Awesome thanks Connor. I have some questions if you don't mind

I guess you would switch spirit speak for resist in doom or vs other spellcasting monsters. But I can't work out when you would switch anatomy for spirit speak... what advantage does that give / what situations is it useful?

Also I was thinking of swapping necro for resist and keeping spirit speak. Wraith form works with JOAT and SS would be useful for curse weapon and healing. Is this a viable template, any advantage/disadvantage to yours, or am I looney?

Thanks!

 

[PrimalFear]

I did roughly the same thing as Connor...

120 Swords
120 Bush
120 Parry
105 Necro
80 SS
100 Tactics
75 Chiv

Also seen a slight variation with slightly more damage output better leeching...

120 Swords
120 Bush
120 Parry
100 Necro
80 SS
120 Tactics
60 Chiv

And I toyed with this and have found this to be fun. Better? I'm not sure, but fun...

120 Swords
120 Bush
120 Parry
100 Necro
100 Spell Weaving
100 Tactics
60 Chiv

Need a circle for sure, but attunement, gift of renewal, gift of life is fun to have on a vamp. Oh and WoD is pretty neat too. Gotta watch your mana though.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Awesome thanks Connor. I have some questions if you don't mind

I guess you would switch spirit speak for resist in doom or vs other spellcasting monsters. But I can't work out when you would switch anatomy for spirit speak... what advantage does that give / what situations is it useful?

The Anat swap would be done when you're planning on fighting non spellcasting creatures, such as Miasma or Cu Sidhe's, or when planning on being in Vamp form instead of Wraith form. Wraith depends on SS for mana leech, along with Curse Wep requiring it, so it's a requirement for that form whereas Vamp form doesn't need it at all. The extra damage increase you get from Anat is well worth making the swap when the situation is right for it.

Also I was thinking of swapping necro for resist and keeping spirit speak. Wraith form works with JOAT and SS would be useful for curse weapon and healing. Is this a viable template, any advantage/disadvantage to yours, or am I looney?

Thanks!

If you're ONLY going to be in Wraith form, this would work. Vamp form would require the Necro on the template. I actually have both 40 Necro and GM Necro I can swap out with, along with GM Resist and GM Anat, so I can switch things up to 4 different templates depending on what I plan on fighting.

 

[von Beck]

Thanks Connor, that was helpful to get my thinking straight

I've been training up fencing on my tactics mage the last few nights, playing with JOAT Necro and 95 SS that I stoned over from my sammy. I must say curse weapon rocks! Looking forward to stoning it back to sammy and using it on a real pVm template.

After patch 56 I'll be interested to see if wraith form can be maintained with JOAT Necro. I think it should be given the minimum is 20 skill.

I actually have both 40 Necro and GM Necro I can swap out with, along with GM Resist and GM Anat, so I can switch things up to 4 different templates depending on what I plan on fighting.

Nice. I'll be aiming for that too (mostly there, just need to tweek). Probably use JOAT Necro or just grab 40 from the haven instructor when I need it.

 

[Richtor]

Given that Busido and Chivalry are not reagent dependent how do you deal with that when you add necro to the mix? Do you carry regs? fit 100% LRC? It seems as though the equipment that I see everyone talking about equiping their toons with does not have LRC and focus more on other bonuses. I know this was probably a stupid question, but I'm wondering how you guys that are running this template deal with this?

 

[von Beck]

Do you carry regs?

Yes.

 

[GFY]

You could get by with arcane clothing. I use boots, robe and a cloak, for 60 total. If your just casting wraith form this should last a long time.

 

[NBG]

Changed to 35necro 40ss wraith and using the talisman to get to 40/50 works well if you can build the right suit.

 

[velg]

glad to see this topic have been pm'n Conner for some info on this..I play on seige and want to do some pvp with this temp..what type fo armor is reccommended? plate mage armor? would you make the armor med suit or stamina regen suit? what type of adds would you look for +di/hld/hci or what?

 

[Connor_Graham]

There is no specific armor type you have to worry about. The Sampire template doesn't have Meditation in it, so there's no need to have all leather or mage armor.

 

[drawn]

anyone try to solo a skeletal lich yet with new pub? Want to see if sampire or wammy the way to go. Thanks!

 

[Farsight]

I have a feeling that wammy is the way to go against the skeletal lich.

It doesn't matter how hard you hit and leech, the SL will kill you if he hits twice in a row. That makes the life leech kind of pointless. Mana leech on the other hand, no matter how many times he hits you, you can still step off and cast spirit speak and/or confidence.

Now if anyone has an opportunity to solo the skeletal lich, I'll be VERY surprised.

 

[Norrar]

tried solo two ways:
went to test and made exact char (darkwood set, primer, ring of vile,health brace, soul seeker)

Samp:lasted...oh about 10 seconds
Whammy: Soloed 7 minutesish

 

[PrimalFear]

Norrar, how much damage were you doing to the lich as a sampire with your soul seeker?

 

[Nyses]

I just found this thread, late i know, but the SL goes down pretty easy to my Wammy. Only time I have a problem, is if I miss twice and he hits me twice and I do not move to heal. I've died a few times because of that. As long as I am paying close attention and careful it dies fast.


My template is:

Mace 115
Tactics 100
Parry 115
Necro 100
Resist 100 - almost
Med - 100
Chiv - 80 - and climing

It is unorthodox, I know, but fun. I wear a Sorcorers Suit, use a shield with 13 HCI and 11 DCI, 1fc on it and usually weild a Diamond mace, or UBWS Radiant Scimitar.

No regs to carry and nothing to loose upon death, but some insurance. I am trying out the spawns solo now. I'll need some good super slayers.

 

[Connor_Graham]

anyone try to solo a skeletal lich yet with new pub? Want to see if sampire or wammy the way to go. Thanks!

This is a bit late since they're gone now, but an archer was the way to go against those. 5 minutes or less to solo one, then you could recall to the next. I was hitting near 300 damage on crits against them with a regular crossbow and the Undead talisman.

 

[Lynk]

For those of you still trying to build a sampire, my recommendation is to find jewels with skill inc, DCI, and DI. They shouldn't be too hard to find.

I found a +33 skill, 11 dci, 20 EP ring and a +10 skill brace with 11 DCI and 20 DI. From there I added the midnight bracers to my suit and I was at 99 necro. I was even able to bump up my tactics for more DI. Only drawback was I lost some MR on my suit because I had to go for max resist pieces to offset the lack of resists on the bracers, but all my mana comes from leeching anyways. And for stats, I run 125 STR, 10 Int, 120 Dex. In elf that gives me 30 mana which is more than enough, and also the int is never affected by curse. All I do is lightning strike and cast enemy of one. Occasionally momentum strike.

This is the sampire build with (after items) 100 healing, 100 tactics, 100 anatomy, 60 chiv, 115 bushido, 99 necro, 120 macing, 115 parry.

 

[sikooovision]

There is no specific armor type you have to worry about. The Sampire template doesn't have Meditation in it, so there's no need to have all leather or mage armor.

Connor Am I Confused On Something Here? I Thought Non-Medable Armor Still Effected Passive Mana Regen and Or Mana Regen Items (Not Sure If Mana Regen Items Would Be Considered Passive Or Not).

 

[GFY]

This is the sampire build with (after items) 100 healing, 100 tactics, 100 anatomy, 60 chiv, 115 bushido, 99 necro, 120 macing, 115 parry.

How well does this work wothout spirit speak?

 

[NBG]

How well does this work wothout spirit speak?

Sammy does not need spirit speak at all. Basically vamp form gets a 20% life leech along with mana regen and stam regen boost. The form bonus is not affected by ss at all.

On the other hand if its wammy (wraith form) you will need SS to get your % of mana leech up.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Connor Am I Confused On Something Here? I Thought Non-Medable Armor Still Effected Passive Mana Regen and Or Mana Regen Items (Not Sure If Mana Regen Items Would Be Considered Passive Or Not).

If you don't have Med the regen rate on armor from Mana Regen is the same whether it's med or non-med armor.

 

[sikooovision]

If you don't have Med the regen rate on armor from Mana Regen is the same whether it's med or non-med armor.

OK Buddy .... So your saying that if I have mana regen items on and lets say a jackals collar (non-medable) that I will regen the same as if I had on a full suit of medable armor??? If so this changes much for me, LoL.

And to ask again my other question, Is there a difference between Mana regen items and "passive regen" (what I mean by passive is the mana that I would regenerate with no med or mana regen, just the basic regen rate for all toons) as far as how the actual regeneration takes place.

I'm confusing myself here, but thanks for the help Connor.

 

[Chaosy]

OK Buddy .... So your saying that if I have mana regen items on and lets say a jackals collar (non-medable) that I will regen the same as if I had on a full suit of medable armor??? If so this changes much for me, LoL.

And to ask again my other question, Is there a difference between Mana regen items and "passive regen" (what I mean by passive is the mana that I would regenerate with no med or mana regen, just the basic regen rate for all toons) as far as how the actual regeneration takes place.

I'm confusing myself here, but thanks for the help Connor.

If you're an elf and don't have any points in meditation, yes your mana regen will be unaffected by jackal's. Non-meddable armor only affects passive meditation, not passive mana regen.

"Passive regen" refers to the mana regen you obtain from a combination of mana regen items and points in focus and meditation (also forms, but they're factored independently - I think). Basically if you're human, the JOAT will give you 20 points in meditation and 20 points in focus, so you'd benefit by having a fully meddable suit as the 20 meditation will enhance the mr you obtain from items as well as provide mr from the skill itself. However, if you're an elf and don't have meditation skill, you have 0 meditation regardless of having a meddable or non-meddable suit, which means having a piece of armor like a jackal's collar is not going to affect mr.

 

[Connor_Graham]

If you're an elf and don't have any points in meditation, yes your mana regen will be unaffected by jackal's. Non-meddable armor only affects passive meditation, not passive mana regen.

"Passive regen" refers to the mana regen you obtain from a combination of mana regen items and points in focus and meditation (also forms, but they're factored independently - I think). Basically if you're human, the JOAT will give you 20 points in meditation and 20 points in focus, so you'd benefit by having a fully meddable suit as the 20 meditation will enhance the mr you obtain from items as well as provide mr from the skill itself. However, if you're an elf and don't have meditation skill, you have 0 meditation regardless of having a meddable or non-meddable suit, which means having a piece of armor like a jackal's collar is not going to affect mr.

This is absolutely correct.

 

[sikooovision]

Thank You.

That Cleared Alot Up.

 

[rwek]

Can somone post a couple of their suits?


I used to run a template similar with healing before they nerfed the necro.

I made this char recommended here by Conner and did not do well. I'm on test trying to find what I want. I think i just need suit building help. To get max dci/hci etc. into it.


Then I'll do my best to copy something on my home server. I'm a returning player with only a few months UO time except when the game was first live 10 years ago.





btw: This is what I used

Wep Skill 120
Bushido 120
Parry 120
Tactics 100
Necro 100
Spirit Speak (or Resist or Anatomy) 100
Chiv 60

Str 110
Dex 125
Int 20 (go elf for the extra 20 mana

I took resist for going to d00m

So if a couple people can show me what arties to pack, best weapon choices etc.


The Bone Daemon ate me alive. I was trying to do skull quest to get into dooom and test on dark father, but could not progress that far. I was tired, will rebuild suit an try again, but make my life easier and show me a good suit/weapon for this template.

 

[Farsight]

The bone daddy required different tactics to defeat. Since you took spirit speak, the best way to start him is with wraith form and curse weapon.

Since he typically hits for over half of your hit points, if he gets you twice before you get him, you're dead. So the tactics goes like this.

Hit, hit, hit, get hit, run away, spirit speak (or confidence) to heal, run back in. It's harder with a non wraith (no heal skill-samurai or vampire or any combination of the above) since your mana leech on your weapon is what will get your mana back for healing. That means that sometimes you have to wait (or attack patchwork skeletons) in order to heal up and get back in the fight.

Necro-warrior is not about standing there and winning. There are tactics you need to use specific to each opponent you face, at least on the highest ends of things.