Heavy Metal is Dead

[Sevin0oo0]

When people think 'Dragon Slayer', many envision a knight in full plate, w/ lance, charging for the kill. A handful might be able to RP this out, but I think for the majority of players, this concept is Dead. In harmony with other threads, I'll take the Lance part first. It's the weapon everybody has, but all forget to bring to battle. "Dang! I forgot to bring my lance, brb" - sound familiar? Thought not, how come? Excellent for Daemons or Acid Elementals, as they love when you miss 4-5 times in a row to fully heal during that 20seconds, making that fight last a loong time. I tried a slightly faster weapon on Tyball's Shadow, those multiple whiffs made it impossible with a GM weapon. I'm not saying faster weapons are better, they are more realistic missing consecutive times. A slower weapon affords more time for aiming and planning, and should readily connect. Tyball's Shadow is another easy example of mobs healing faster than the damage rate.
Point, there seems something very wrong with weapon mechanics, especially on slower ones.

The second is the plate armor, and I won't say too much since they plan changes for this. I will say I'm not a fan of "non-med". When you cast a spell, where does that mana go? Straight thru the metal, then transforms into something else - but the mana goes thru, unhindered. Now, It can't make the return trip? Just not realistic to me. If it blocks, why doesn't it block incoming spells? Poison, for example, mana goes thru the armor, transforms to poison the target.
Point, these One-way trips don't make sense to me.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

since no comments, I'll say pick a middling swing speed, no bonus or minus
faster weapons lose HCI, slower gains HCI
so that more weapons might be chosen and used for everyday use.

 

[Raptor85]

well, the mana is only going TO you, you're not just projecting out raw mana, you're meditating to draw it in from the area around and "transforming" it into a spell. That was plate's major downside that was added as when it came about it was quite overpowered for mages to be able to have as much defense vs physical attacks as warriors did... but at the same time the BENEFIT was supposed to be that plate had higher damage reduction than leather/cloth.....they kept the downsides of plate but not the upsides when AOS rolled out O_x

I believe the lance was added in AOS (could have been ren, I don't remember it from when I played) but the big 2H weapons pre AOS did a LOT more damage relative to hp/armor than they do now, hit chances were significantly reduced during AOS as well which further made heavy weps like that useless (the lower the hit chance the more a faster weapon is favored)

But then, we've been complaining about how unbalanced AOS made the items system since...well..AOS. They haven't seemed interested in fixing it in 10 years of players leaving so far so why should they start now....

 

[Sauteed Onion]

Well, overall, I think Sevin is on the same track of thinking many of us are on. In general, the reason you don't see so many people getting into their full plate suits, and 2 handed weapons and kicking the pee out of stuff is well, there's higher "potential" in leather armor and faster weapons that have their damage and hit chance and hit lower defense.. yada yada samething alot of others have said.

At one point people had AR instead of these resists. AR > resistances at this point in the game. Perhaps when resistances were implemented it was the natural evolution that UO needed. Fire should burn, poison should do poison damage. Along this course of UO evolution though, it just got crazy. Crazy to the point where magic Leather (not studded either), started becoming more powerful than magic chain and plate.. Magic 1 handed butcher knives start eviscerating 20 times more efficiently than magic 2 handed swords and axes and as Sevin pointed out, Lances. It begs one to wonder, when you think about how the battlefield was won was it not people in suits of plate and chain armor on horse back running people down with lances and swords and axes? Can you imagine in UO where this is recreated and you've got an army of people on horseback with lances and I dunno Long Swords and plate armor vs. some group of people with skinning knives and leather on or off horse back, with maybe a kryss or something as a secondary weapon. It'd be hilarious, promise you.


Bottom line it's a video game, set to stimulate imagination and provide hours and hours of entertainment. I don't play UO with the intention of "winning", but to just overcome, in most cases big monster encounters, and have fun with friends and the tight knit guild I am in. That being said, I do think it's time the UO team realize where the game is going in terms of modifications that are needed which are long overdue. Also we need to realize that our dedicated uo team is small, and they can only do so much and that somewhere someone in that team decided to make an order at which to deal with the challenges we as a community for the game have proposed for them, however convoluted and silly that order is.. well that's topic for another discussion altogether.. meow.

 

[BeaIank]

This is a sad truth.
I am training my warrior in plate mail and she will keep wearing it even though leather is clearly superior in UO, as resists on both are on par, and you regain mana way faster in leather armor.

And the state of the bigger, slower weapons isn't much better than poor plate mail fate.
In order to survive against the mobs of new revamped monsters, you need a fast weapon. I can emerge victorious from fighting a mob of earth elementals and mud pies surrounding me with a dagger, but I failed badly every time I tried to do it with a halberd because it was too slow, even with whirlwind attack.

I am not exactly sure how to balance them, but I'd love to see plate + halberd to be equal in power to kryss + leather armor...

 

[Warpig Inc]

As it should be. You may hit me 10X. But I will hit you once 10X harder

 

[BeaIank]

Warpig: Yes, I would love that.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

The different materials should not necessarily be viewed as a bad thing. I think of physical light, a mirror reflects back the entire spectrum Equally, even parts you and I can't see. The newer armor is opposite, as it more readily absorbs certain spectrums. Fishermen know this as only certain colors are seen, others dissipated, as depth increases and available light goes away. The inherent ability of metal armors to absorb an elemental is quite realistic too me, leather, NO, well the property would have to be magically placed on the item, dangerous in that if you encounter an area that negates magical effects, you'd lose those benefits. Fortunately, we don't have theses areas in UO, yet, just sayin

 

[Spiritless]

Black Sabbath/Ozzy Osbourne disagree.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

When people think 'Dragon Slayer', many envision a knight in full plate, w/ lance, charging for the kill. A handful might be able to RP this out, but I think for the majority of players, this concept is Dead. In harmony with other threads, I'll take the Lance part first. It's the weapon everybody has, but all forget to bring to battle. "Dang! I forgot to bring my lance, brb" - sound familiar? Thought not, how come? Excellent for Daemons or Acid Elementals, as they love when you miss 4-5 times in a row to fully heal during that 20seconds, making that fight last a loong time. I tried a slightly faster weapon on Tyball's Shadow, those multiple whiffs made it impossible with a GM weapon. I'm not saying faster weapons are better, they are more realistic missing consecutive times. A slower weapon affords more time for aiming and planning, and should readily connect. Tyball's Shadow is another easy example of mobs healing faster than the damage rate.
Point, there seems something very wrong with weapon mechanics, especially on slower ones.

The second is the plate armor, and I won't say too much since they plan changes for this. I will say I'm not a fan of "non-med". When you cast a spell, where does that mana go? Straight thru the metal, then transforms into something else - but the mana goes thru, unhindered. Now, It can't make the return trip? Just not realistic to me. If it blocks, why doesn't it block incoming spells? Poison, for example, mana goes thru the armor, transforms to poison the target.
Point, these One-way trips don't make sense to me.

1) I have read quite a bit of fantasy and have yet to come across a storyline that involves a Knight actually fighting or slaying a Dragon with a lance. Dragons are almost always portrayed as creatures able to wield magic and they are of course winged. Does your Knight throw his lance up into the sky at the Dragon? Or does your Dragon just decide to forego flying and magic(gigantic advantages over a Knight)to stand on the ground and get gored to death? That would be very odd as Dragons are also always portrayed as being very clever.

2) While we are on the silly subject of trying to randomly insert rl into an MMORPG I would like to point out that I have never seen or read about a Knight in full plate with a Lance that also likes to spend huge amounts of time decorating his home and/or sitting in a bank.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

a storyline that involves a Knight actually fighting or slaying a Dragon with a lance.

I agree! include movies in that too. It only happens in make believe verbal fantasy, and is more a conceptual ideology than a believable story.
and Developers did this for adults! case in point,"The Dragon Slayer" Lance. A 4.5 second pile of crap, imo. I think someone asked about it, and the reply was to joust, use a hit and run tactic. Someday when i have a Hours of time to blow, I'd like to see a fighter do that to a greater dragon, is that really what was intended?
A classic example of DEAD.

 

[sativa green]

wearing plate only has effect on gaining mana if you are using meditation skill to gain it back. gaining mana through means of the focus skill or through mana leaching affects is simply not affected by platemail. only humans trying wearing platemail, with 0 meditation skill, who get 20 free meditation through jack of trades, will have a slightly less advantage to other humans using leather. if you are using meditation on a warrior, you are doing something wrong, as focus is superior as you don't need to stop and meditate to get mana back, nor does meditation replenish stamina.

the resists for leather armor are just easier to create as valorite is much rarer than barbed leather.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

wearing plate only has effect on gaining mana if you are using meditation skill to gain it back. .

they change this? As far as I know, Passive mana regen has a higher MPS rate than in Non-Meddable gear. I think I stop-watched this awhile back checking regen rates, w/ Med, passively, etc. Just 1 piece of non-med equipped, hosed everything.

 

[sativa green]

they change this? As far as I know, Passive mana regen has a higher MPS rate than in Non-Meddable gear. I think I stop-watched this awhile back checking regen rates, w/ Med, passively, etc. Just 1 piece of non-med equipped, hosed everything.

no change, this was always the case.

 

[Raptor85]

wearing plate only has effect on gaining mana if you are using meditation skill to gain it back. gaining mana through means of the focus skill or through mana leaching affects is simply not affected by platemail. only humans trying wearing platemail, with 0 meditation skill, who get 20 free meditation through jack of trades, will have a slightly less advantage to other humans using leather. if you are using meditation on a warrior, you are doing something wrong, as focus is superior as you don't need to stop and meditate to get mana back, nor does meditation replenish stamina.

the resists for leather armor are just easier to create as valorite is much rarer than barbed leather.

Active AND passive mana regen from med skill (on a human you lose about the equivilant of MR2 from joat) AND the passive mana regen from the inteligence stat (your passive mana regen rate is determined by meditation skill and int capped at .2 if wearing metal armor, focus is a straight MR1 for every 20 points invested and is factored sperately). So yes, even without using active med your mana regen rate in plate is considerably slower. Part of the problem is warriors were never supposed to be mana reliant in the first place, in reality if they should have made anything "used" when using specials (personally i preferred the weapons a lot better without) it should have consumed stamina.

The resist spreads also really suck on plate, making it much, much harder to piece together a 70's suit with as many open imbue slots as a leather suit due to the way the resists are spread and the "natural" max's when crafting.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Part of the problem is warriors were never supposed to be mana reliant in the first place, in reality if they should have made anything "used" when using specials ... it should have consumed stamina.

It was probably an oversight. My first thought on my fighter was "HUH? I'm not a mage!" never made sense, but using Stamina does. +1

 

[northwoodschopper]

the devs goofed the system. they should up the swing speed of heavier weapons which high strength requirements to make them competitive.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

Lance? Not sure I've ever heard of swinging one, anybody? anyone who's watched Bruce Lee knows Speed x Force = damage. Speed and strength of horse, terrain, etc. Has anybody use one in the game? Did it look as if you were raising a flag pole? Duh, the things are 15 feet long.Mistake, or not?