Gold sinks, what do you think will work (Voice your opinion!!!)

[Xenobia]

The only point I can agree with here is #3. It does not have to be voluntary to work. Any system that removes gold involuntarily or otherwise is still a gold sink. If its involuntary then #2 is automatically moot.

Despite my long initial paragraph in my tax proposal, you guys still ignore the fact that you're addicted to having all the stuff you have in game and would continue playing and paying the tax if it were implemented. You'd start 100 threads on Stratics and pancake about it, but you'd still do it.

This is not necessariy true. I have several accounts and if I had to be taxed on ALL of those accounts I may not be able to afford them all. Just because I have all those accounts does not mean I am rich in the game. They may lose some account activity because of it. It's possible that I would have to take it down to one account just to be able to pay what I need to pay. As I'm sure you understand, EA wants REAL MONEY. They may not care so much about taxing people on fake money if it means folks have to close accounts. Just a thought...

 

[Xenobia]

You make my point for me. We will do whatever EA comes up with in order to keep our precious pixels.

Yes I did fight to keep those pixels because I (Me, Myself) worked to get those pixels originally and I pay EA a monthly fee that allows me to do that. Just because someone enjoys what they have in the game does not mean its the end all be all to their lives. I stressed over that house because I placed it a long time ago and due to a bug with my account and then the crashing of the housing server, I almost lost it. Will I conform to them stripping me of my hard earned gold??? Hell no I won't. I already pay them from my paycheck. *sigh*

 

[Xenobia]

Ok I am out of this one...Happy debating! I'm going to go kill some stuff and earn some gold and play with the pixels that I pay for every month lol

Take care

 

[Warrior of Time]

Warrior:

Actually, you will notice I only mentioned wandering healers and priests of mondain.

In-town healers and rezzes from other players would still cost 0. And, you could also make it to where characters with a "Young" tag weren't charged for any death.

I did notice it. I also know from the past that most don't die in or near enough to a town to get a rez and back before the body decays. Also some people play late at night when no one else is around.

Being new last only a week and most new people with no help will only get to see a small part of the game. Most people play for weeks before their char is stable enough to actually do anything. Many I run into make the wrong mix of skills to be useful at all even once compleated.

They will die a lot more than most and can aford it the least. How long will a new person stay if they keep losing things faster than they can get them insured.

As for taxing. Many play UO to get away from a world that has taxes. Taxes would be a better reason to leave UO than KR ever could.

The NPC is possable way to take gold out of UO. What is sold must be Needed, and used up quickly. It must be sold only by an NPC to remove gold. It must be needed by a lot of people.

For lack of a better example look at arrows and bolts. You buy them from an NPC the gold is removed. With UO:SA coming we have a chance to add just such an item. The throwing skill could be just the ticket.

I know the crafters will want it if they see they can make a lot of gold by makeing and selling them. We can make it so you can buy the item to make it too at a lesser price. It would not bleed the people that can least aford them. They will simply use something else.

Selling millions a day in one shard alone Could help. The trouble is that people will want it to earn them enough gold or chance to earn more than it cost. A two edged sword indeed. Take out less that it puts in.

At that point it is the earning the skill that will take out the gold, but only so long since there is an end or slowing down point GM. At least making them the only reasonable way to learn the skill helps a lot. It can't stop there. It must also be useful after all the work you did.

A fire dart [example name] used once then is gone. Also the price must be locked, and can't be sold back. There must be enough for those that don't have or know a crafter to have and use them.

We can't start charging tax or pay for things that has always been just to be used as a gold sink.

 

[5% Luck]

I favor the housing tax but instead of housing going into decay they get auctioned off as a bank would do. All items included.

Not only does this take off some gold via the tax but the gold made from the auction goes straight to the drain. Now the tax rate I see here in this thread is trying to pull specific numbers off the top with tax but lets spread this number throught the whole system of tax and foreclosure. Based on storage instead of tiles.

I would sugest 10gp per storage unit(base not upgraded) per month. A castle would be about 30k a month or 360k a year(estimated) ans a small 7x7 about 7k a month or100k a year. Location would not be a factor. This is just to keep it in the system. The auction though, would take location into consideration.

I foresee more gold being generated(sunk) via the auction rather than the tax in a grand total. This would also off set the idoc house placement problems we have AND bring some of the biggest gold hoarders to the table with a sink right in front of them.

Of course wed have to attribute an extra housing slot to the auction winner for a specified amount of time maybe 7-30 day. And allow their current house to not go idoc during this time. This could be aplyed to all idoc housing and replace the current and notably broken system.

 

[5% Luck]

My take on insurance or healer charges would be to insure your items for a specific amount of deaths UPFRONT. Meaning you can chose 5 deaths or 5 days for a relative cost but once the 5 days were over you would need to reinsure. For pvp you can pay for insurance for a specific amount of time instead. We can have insurance "plans" Thats if it were to be changed.

I personally think insurance is fine as is and wouldn't want to pay a npc for my right to live. Truth be known i favor full loot no insurance but....:gun:

 

[Fink]

- Reagents, LRC items ruined the use of them, was a huge grab.

Turn LRC into "Reagent Channelling". 100% RC takes regs directly from your bankbox rather than pulling them out of thin air. RC suits would still be useful/desirable, regs would cost money again.

- New currency

A once-off conversion of all existing gold coin and cheques to copper pieces. Copper pieces are then tradable for gold at 1000cp:1gp. Remove gold from loot, have it only generated by trade with NPCs - selling resources cut from corpses to shopkeepers - or via questing. Whatever gold exists in the economy would still be traded among players, just not in the order of magnitude seen now.

Have mobs only drop loot that makes sense eg: Swoop would drop feathers meat and bone, not 2k gold plus 12-15 weapons/armour of various craptacularity. Repond creatures would drop armour/weapons food etc depending on their profession, dragons would drop gems and other shiny objects along with carved hides bones meat & scales, etc. Spiders would drop the silk reg plus spun silk thread for tailoring, etc.

The whole loot system could be overhauled so that killing monsters provides you with a tradeable resource rather than a gushing gold faucet. Everything in game should have a market and a value, which could be tweaked in publishes if things become unbalanced.

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

I like the idea of Wandering Healers charging... but maybe making it "Tiered" to not penalize younger players...

Less than 300 Skill Points... all res's Free
301 to 450 Skill Points... all res's cost skill point total first time in 24 hours, 25% increase for each successive res until you are paying 2x your total skill points per res which is max... resets at server down.
450 to Max Skill Points... all res's cost 2x skill point total for first res and increase 25% until you are paying 4x skill point total which is max until server down.

Towns and player res are still free.

 

[The Home Guild]

Already seen a thread with the same questions and answers.
Here we are again asking the same thing.
Let's move along.

 

[Setnaffa]

I added my Gold Sink idea to my first post in this thread.

 

[Coldren]

I think a great gold and resource sink could be found in crafters. This is more of a free-form idea than a practical implementation, but here goes.

City Invasions.

Let's look at what happens when a city is invaded: Buildings are destroyed, gaurds break weapons and armor, need to "Hire" NPC's to replace fallen ones, etc..

Why not make a turn in system part of a city invasion system? This would sink not only gold, but resources, straight out of the system.

Crafters turn in weapons, armor, potions, scrolls and resources. Rich players turn in gold. Every city (Including Luna and Felluca cities as well) will have a defense rating, and that number is directly dependent on how much gold and resources are donated to the collector for that city. At various points throughout the week, the city with the lowest defense rating (That isn't already being invaded) has a massive invasion of mobs, maybe with a theme (Undead, Lizardmen, Trolls, etc.). In the event of a tie, a random city is chosen. That invasion will continue to spawn and attack NPC's in that city, killing vital NPCS (Guards, Healers, Merchants, Bankcers, etc.). Those towns STAY invaded until the players take action in one of the following ways:

A) Players kill a certain threshold of the progressively difficult monsters, all of which have a total amount of gold/items that could possibly drop per "invasion", making farming them impractical. This would have to be disproportionate in difficulty to the benefit of turning in resources/gold.

B) Enough gold/resources are given to the cities so that they can fight back the invasion on their own. The quality and quantity of the resources has a high rating, making crafters able to contribute, and gold is always needed and is worth a flat amount.

Much like faction rewards, players could earn unique items based on their contribution, or fancy titles or fluff items.

A rough idea, but it gives continuous content, is a perpetual sink because invasions are always reoccurring and in different/multiple places simultaneously if not addressed, helps build community, diversifies shards, and opens the door for a lot of fun PvE, RP, and PvP.

 

[Sarphus]

NPC vendors could offer some of the more rare imbuing resources for exorbitant prices. That would give players the choice to buy the ingredient from a vendor or go hunt for it.

I think the same could be done for peerless resources.

 

[Fluffi]

When i started playing the game, it took me and about 3 other people savings of 1 months of non stop fighting to afford my first little wooden cadin, (which would Decay in 3 days if no one visited) and we were so happy just to get that,

I understand what you are saying, but I can't equate your above statement to your desire for goldsinks.

You had to work for your house; you had to save for your house; and presumably, you've saved for other stuff since then.
If you want goldsinks just because you've got more money than you know what to do with... every town has a trash-can.
If you want goldsinks because other people have got lots of money, why punish them for saving their gold?

Were are now you can kill one monster and make enough money to last you a life time...

No you can't.

It's a long time since I did any serious shopping in UO, but with the exception of 1-off event items, what would you say are the rarest/most expensive freely available things? 120 mage/eval? Ornament/Inquisitors/Z-Claw?

A quick run around some shops gives a price-range of +/- 20mil for these. Your lucky weekend camped in Doom or at a Champ is NOT going to get you a suit and a weapon: You'd be lucky to get a single high-end piece for the price of the Ornament.

So New players are getting the advantage of the over inflation and getting fortunes a kill, since everything seems to carry more than 1000 gold (over state ment i know )

Ignoring your exaggerstion , what exactly can a newbie kill? Earth Ellies after a bit of training? 200 gold and a gem? Not exactly raking-in the funds.

Also when you start something up, it really feels like *^%$%* when you just made your first 10k gold from saving up after a long time, and go out shopping were you can buy :| 500 arrows maybe. :|

This is a point we will never agree on.

You make your first 10K... you spend 3K each on 2 bits of armour better than that you are wearing; 2K on a better bow, and the rest on arrows.

Go out. Kill stuff (perhaps a bit higher than you could kill before). Loot. Repeat until you have your 200mil suit and a 100mil bow.

or if you go out to battle and die, about 100 times against a monster,

If this happens, you are trying to run before you can walk; which is a personal error, not a fault of game mechanics.

and you see a person run up and 1 hit kill them, and run by like it was nothing... This dismays new players to me....

This happens to EVERYBODY at some time.

I can solo any non-named monster, and have done few bosses with some of my characters.

There will always be someone who can kill xxxxxx quicker than me, but I don't let that bother me.

Nobody is ever going to "win" UO, so I at least, never choose to try. (Which is why I enjoy UO)

 

[Harb]

...City Invasions...Why not make a turn in system part of a city invasion system? This would sink not only gold, but resources, straight out of the system.

One of the better "first thoughts" I've seen lately, you've got a concept here that with tweaking has merit for consideration, though not as a "gold sink" in today's sense. "Wealth" has too much varience, some people literally have billions, others have nothing (not just the handfull of new players, we've been around more than 11 years and don't keep gold sitting around at all). As written, said system relies on contribution of players, sorry partner but that won't happen. The player who has the billions, wants the billions, regardless of why they keep it - they want to keep it. Again, there can be no penalty in any sink. Every player, and every playstyle must be considered equally. Nerfs, and "taxes," should be out of bounds. Whatever is going to be used to drive gold out of the game, it must be significant, and can not be unique. Regs, insurance, etc don't scratch the surface. Duping must be stopped (I like many sound like a broken record, but sadly we have to keep repeating it). The sink gets established, then the currency changes.

 

[Warrior of Time]

NPC vendors could offer some of the more rare imbuing resources for exorbitant prices. That would give players the choice to buy the ingredient from a vendor or go hunt for it.

I think the same could be done for peerless resources.

I can't agree more, but what would you call exorbinant? If it is too high people will just go out and hunt for it rather than buy. That possably could reverse the effect needed.

Also it is the crafters that need it. Where would they get it from if they can't buy it from a NPC cheeper.

Because of that I think needing a lot and few on what you kill would work better. An example would be a need of 25. That same item would give you 1 per kill. Price per could be say 600 each from an NPC. {one insured itams loss} That would make a need to pay 15000 to make. To kill you would get 1 of them + gold and gold gotten needs to be close to what you get to buy it, must be cosidered. [Buy one get one free]

Buying regs and using directly from the bank could help also. How many would insure a low resist lower regs set of armor. If they could have a all 70 armor with adds. People would return to the need to buy the regs by choice. It may even help change over to the old armor system but not dex peneltys. Better mods on the plate. It could possably be a way to return to the need to bring back the heavy archer's armor.

It may be better to have a choice to either mine, or cut wood to get item for it. Maybe both. That would make it a choice of work for it or buy it. Killing to buy would also remove gold. A kind of killing to remove the gold. Also the item made must have a need to always have a use in game. It must be of high value once it is successfully made. It self must be an item that is used up in the game.

 

[sapphirediablo11]

I understand what you are saying, but I can't equate your above statement to your desire for goldsinks.

You had to work for your house; you had to save for your house; and presumably, you've saved for other stuff since then.
If you want goldsinks just because you've got more money than you know what to do with... every town has a trash-can.
If you want goldsinks because other people have got lots of money, why punish them for saving their gold?





No you can't.

It's a long time since I did any serious shopping in UO, but with the exception of 1-off event items, what would you say are the rarest/most expensive freely available things? 120 mage/eval? Ornament/Inquisitors/Z-Claw?

A quick run around some shops gives a price-range of +/- 20mil for these. Your lucky weekend camped in Doom or at a Champ is NOT going to get you a suit and a weapon: You'd be lucky to get a single high-end piece for the price of the Ornament.





Ignoring your exaggerstion , what exactly can a newbie kill? Earth Ellies after a bit of training? 200 gold and a gem? Not exactly raking-in the funds.





This is a point we will never agree on.

You make your first 10K... you spend 3K each on 2 bits of armour better than that you are wearing; 2K on a better bow, and the rest on arrows.

Go out. Kill stuff (perhaps a bit higher than you could kill before). Loot. Repeat until you have your 200mil suit and a 100mil bow.





If this happens, you are trying to run before you can walk; which is a personal error, not a fault of game mechanics.





This happens to EVERYBODY at some time.

I can solo any non-named monster, and have done few bosses with some of my characters.

There will always be someone who can kill xxxxxx quicker than me, but I don't let that bother me.

Nobody is ever going to "win" UO, so I at least, never choose to try. (Which is why I enjoy UO)

I don't want a gold sink because i'm too rich or poor i'm middle class... got about 50m gold... and over 1b in items, and location :|

As far as what a person needs to survive in the game yes... one kill will get you all that you need :| but everyone is just to lazy to get their own crafter to make the good items they want... (i relaize most elite outfits use arites... but you really don't NEED them you WANT them)

I can make a new character, and since thigns are so easy i started duoing... can't solo with him yet since hes not 100% done yet... mel... that was 4 days... 4 DAYS!!! and first drop... when it wasn't my main... yea a CC i'm lucky that day got 16 000 000.01 gold for it...

If you are spending 200m on armour... you sir/mam are being ripped off... i can make a godly suit in the cost of 50m and that is buying most the items... and 100m bow get real... :| only a fool :|

But some monsters... lets take black rock elementals... it took me years to kill the one that i did... were two archers kill it in like 1 min :| but yet again another extreme case lol

Some people want to win a game... that is why they buy it... to win... but i'm not one for that i socialize in game... i'm not a die hard... so i can't really go on that either...


ANYWAYS updated list a bit.... if i missed something repost a bottom in -IDEA and i will try to bring it up top

Thanks for the ideas everyoen

 

[Xenobia]

I understand what you are saying, but I can't equate your above statement to your desire for goldsinks.

You had to work for your house; you had to save for your house; and presumably, you've saved for other stuff since then.
If you want goldsinks just because you've got more money than you know what to do with... every town has a trash-can.
If you want goldsinks because other people have got lots of money, why punish them for saving their gold?





No you can't.

It's a long time since I did any serious shopping in UO, but with the exception of 1-off event items, what would you say are the rarest/most expensive freely available things? 120 mage/eval? Ornament/Inquisitors/Z-Claw?

A quick run around some shops gives a price-range of +/- 20mil for these. Your lucky weekend camped in Doom or at a Champ is NOT going to get you a suit and a weapon: You'd be lucky to get a single high-end piece for the price of the Ornament.





Ignoring your exaggerstion , what exactly can a newbie kill? Earth Ellies after a bit of training? 200 gold and a gem? Not exactly raking-in the funds.





This is a point we will never agree on.

You make your first 10K... you spend 3K each on 2 bits of armour better than that you are wearing; 2K on a better bow, and the rest on arrows.

Go out. Kill stuff (perhaps a bit higher than you could kill before). Loot. Repeat until you have your 200mil suit and a 100mil bow.





If this happens, you are trying to run before you can walk; which is a personal error, not a fault of game mechanics.





This happens to EVERYBODY at some time.

I can solo any non-named monster, and have done few bosses with some of my characters.

There will always be someone who can kill xxxxxx quicker than me, but I don't let that bother me.

Nobody is ever going to "win" UO, so I at least, never choose to try. (Which is why I enjoy UO)

*high fives Fluffi!!!!!* Very well thought out and said. I have a feeling that at least half the folks calling for a gold sink have a ton themselves and if that's the case then they know where the trash cans are located in Brit

 

[Pickaxe Pete]

Have a lackey come up with some items like in the EM days and put them on a vendor, only one of each. Would only take a few hours even for a newbie dev. Price at 1billion points each. One gold = 1point. A direct purchase would not work due to bank capacity. The best idea is to have tickets for sale on that same vendor: 100mil points for 100mil gold. That would make it fast to empty banks.

A few trillion would leave the market, easily. At that point, it would just be a matter of depleting the gold resellers.

 

[Harlequin]

I don't think that's the only thing that will work, but it's an idea.

However, I wouldn't cap the gold per shard, as it would only hurt any real new or returning player starting with a new account.

Here's a bunch of ways I'd consider (all of them, or even a few)

1. Have all existing checks, on a certain day auto-redeem where they are, with any gold over the capacity of the container holding it (or the house, if locked down on the floor), be lost. People who want to keep a fair amount of their gold would have the opportunity to spread it out, but the more clutter one has, the less gold one would have room to keep.

Really bad idea. It's punishing people that cannot login regularly or have enough property to store their gold. What about people that suddenly gets called away and cannot login due to work/family deaths or even holidays? Also the super rich will suddenly start buying up rares/properties, but no one wants to sell. This will potentially lead to RMT.

2. Then Reduce gold by 90% (including most loot forms), but for the first 30 days afterward, PvM Insurance rates and vendor fees would also be reduced by that much (after that grace period, it would return to normal).

Bad idea as above.

3. Revert bags of sending to the 1 charge per send, but have them charge 50 GP per stone weight sent (making them worthless for gold). This will take gold directly out of the economy. Other items that use PoT (like the pet balls) would also have a gold fee to use.

Now, this is a good idea. Will make the BOS useful again for non gold items - ie resource gathering.

4. Have certain NPCs charge for their services that are currently free. Say, for example, wandering healers requiring 500 gold, the way the one in the Gauntlet askes for 5000. The Priests of Mondain would want more (the price of being red). Stables would charge much higher rates than they do now, as well as weekly fees based on control & stable slots. If one has not the gold for getting pets in or out, the pets are held until you have enough money to pay them out, or tell the stablemaster to release the pets (at which time you could attempt to retame, if they don't get guard-whacked - one could do it at the stables in Ilshenar with no guard zones, to be safe)

Not a good idea, will turn away newbies, who dies most often due to lack of funds to get better equipment. They'll get stuck in a rut they they can't climb out of.

5. Have LRC suits charge your account or your backpack gold, every time they sub for the real thing. say, 5 per reagent, per spell. This turns them into a convenience, as the only one that will save money will be Paladins (the 5 gold fee will be less than the tithing amount for most spells), and the occasional necromancer (some of the necro regs cost 5-7 each).

Good idea, can perhaps be implemented by means of a spell component pouch. Or like the Paladin's tithing.

6. Add a gold requirement similar to tithing for bushido, ninjitsu & spellweaving (or add regs to them - say, since spellweaving is most analogous to old ultima Druidism, perhaps Oak leaves, and the various lumberjack special items - after all, Mistletoe IS a Parasitic Plant, and bark would be a naturally obvious reagent for reaper form). The Bushido & Ninjitsu costs could be something similar to a daily (or weekly) donation before being able to use things requiring over 50 skill, as tribute to the Daimyo (for bushido), or to the Clan (for Ninja), based on the character's relative skill, and total skill points.

Interesting, but remember that these are free now. If it's a new spell that requires special components, then maybe. In that case, I'll still like to see the spell component pouch be used for this as well.

7. Take the collection systems, and split it into two donation totals for each character - 1 for items donated, 1 for gold donated. Require that at least half the points turned in for a specific reward MUST be from points gained from gold - and have the gold points donated count double for determining the collections' tiers.

Splitting the requirements into 2 parts is an interesting idea as well.

8. Have player-run vendors charge 1% per day of the gold they are holding, about the amount that would be needed for type of vendor contract's full duration (defaultung to the longest rental vendor period, for non-rental vendors), as a service fee for holding that kind of money. So, if a vendor was on a weekly rental basis, and charged 1000 per day, all gold over 7000 would be subject to a 1% per day fee. The fee would be waived for vendors whose total gold on person is under 10k gold.

I am against this. Almost like the first 2 suggestions, it's punishing people for not being able to login regularly. Because I can imagine I would keep checking my vendors to collect any sales made that brings the gold held down below 10k.

In general, instead of nerfing (taking without giving anything in return), I believe that implementing things in a positive way is a much better solution (give something in exchange).

I am thinking along the lines of needing gold to buy materials for ships in a pirates' add-on. Then make the ship battle possible and ships sinkable.

 

[Tycolby]

Changing the way things work now will only lead to more bugs in the system. They werent meant to be gold sinks. Plus you have to have ppl willing to use or turn in the gold.

To be effective UO needs to open up vendors in game that will sell you the codes from their site. Wanna buy a charger? 5 mil and you get a charger dropped in your pack or if you dont have gold then you can still go to the website and buy the code for a charger for real money. No chance of RMT.
11th annv items should be the same way. Heck make all the items avaible. Doom arties, peerlees ingreds, tok atries(dyes included) soulstones, and etc.etc.etc. Items blessed deeds(but not for seige cuz they are too hard core for that) And before you place the UO vendors reduce gold drops cross the board by 60%. and Why 60%? Because thats the dam number I Picked!!!!