Going AFK

[imported_Shirl1211]

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Well, it would be nice to have an official ruling on AFK/Open stores.

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It's never been allowed, and there's never been any indication that the situation has changed.

Just because some people do it and get away with it doesn't mean everyone should.

Some people drink underage. Some people smoke. Some people take drugs. Some people steal cars. Doesn't make it any less wrong even if everyone does it, it's still against the law.

In TSO, the "law" is the terms of service.

I would hope that, as part of the anti-botting and anti-cheating measures that are supposedly being used to keep the economy in check, the powers that be are going to crack down on people keeping their stores open all day when they aren't actually there.

I'd gladly sit there for 8 hours a day logged in checking stores and whacking repeat offenders with the banhammer if EA would pay me for the privilege. After all, I am probably one of the most experienced people in knowing what to look for and how to report it ... or at least that's the reputation.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a comparision, since this is nothing more then a game. Unbelievable!!!

 

[Guest]

ah... but of course you know that he can still give his opinion whether you agree or not and you are also free to "let it go".

Thanks Polly for the info - THAT was what I was thinking of. I would love to see/hear more about this kind of thing. I know that in my time playing EQ2 I have seen many changes to the selling system, originally you had to be online to do so, there have been a few changes and the end result is the current system where I can leave items at my house to sell. I still have to log in within so many hours to keep my items on the market but everyone who plays has th same oppurtunity to sell their items.

I would like to see a change to the time out feature but I don't think it will be necessary for this issue. The idea of being able to just leave your house and still allow people to browse and buy from you would be fantastic and would allow everyone - especially honest players to benefit.

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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I gotta agree with AJ. Until we're notified that ToS has changed, why would you think it had changed just because some players are slipping through loopholes? Yes, it might mean that the ToS is not being properly enforced, but that's like saying if the police force has a crisis that makes them short staffed so that they cannot catch all the murders and rapists, that its 'OK' to go out and attempt one of the two and play Russian roulette to see if you're one of the lucky ones that gets caught or not. Why do you need someone enforcing the rules to follow them when you know they exists. Are we adults that can control our behavior or not?

Food for thought.

[/ QUOTE ]


I am appalled at being compared to these kinds of people, when we are making comments about a game. That is really bad!!!

 

[Guest]

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*****Hmmmmm*******
I just went to read the ToS. I'm having trouble finding here it says we are not allowed to be afk? Can anyone find it and direct us all there?

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"[You may not] Use or distribute “auto” software programs, “macro” software programs or other “cheat utility” software program or applications."

AFK overriders are "cheat utilities".


"You will not attempt to interfere with, hack into or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers running the Service."

If you are using a non-software based 'device' to stop the timeout... you're interfering with a transmission to the server that will log you out after 15 minutes of inactivity.


"You will not exploit any bug in the Service or in any EA product to gain unfair advantage in the game and you will not communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through the public posting) to any other user of the Service."

Overriding timeout is an 'unfair advantage'.


"You will not do anything that interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing an EA game and using the Service"

If you're cheating, you're interfering with the ability of others who wish to play fairly to compete.

Seems fairly comprehensive to me.

Remember here that 'afk play' is NOT an issue as long as you come back every 14 minutes to prod your keyboard and stop the countdown. You don't have to sit at the computer every single minute you are logged in. It's those that are online for 23 hours a day, overriding timeout, with a house full of their own sims racking up the hours cheating in the same way, that are causing the concern - and have done for 5 years.

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See now....that's your opinion. You have a right to your opinion.

In my opinion, these ToS leave lots of gaps and loop holes. I don't necessarily 'read into' the rules that the method used to override the time out falls into any of these categories.

What about sleepwalkers? Are they cheaters too? Obviously sleepwalking was programmed otherwise why would the devs have given the option to "wake up" the sleepwalkers? But someone else might view it as a cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are ignoring things clearly stated to justify cheating. That's not the same as us 'reading things' into it. It's clearly there, as outlined and explained. If you choose to cheat from this point forward, you cannot proclaim innocence/ignorance. The ToS has spoken, ignore it if you want to. 'Nuff said. This round and round is nonsense.

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Who said anything about using any kind of device. All a person has to do is click on something from time to time in order to stay afloat. Another thing, if this rule has not been enforced for a very long time with the tree farms and afk skillers, maybe it should be discontinued so we all have a fair shake at being on the boards period, honestly i'd be happy at #100 . And for the cheat and bot busters, you sure are slacking on your mission to report this kind of gameplay or maybe you have and nobdy cares.. I challenge you to go into some of these stores late at night with up to 22 sims that I counted last night, and tell me what you see! And also speak to them and see how many answer! I believe in fair gameplay as a rule too and will stay AFK and make money or skill with my other sims because that's the only way of prospering for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

If having to cheat equals prospering to you, then I'm not sure what to say to that. If I had to cheat to 'prosper' in the game, I'd realize that the ends never justify the means, and I just would not do it, or I'd find a way to do it without cheating. If as you say you are happy with spot #100 then the 100th position in TC3 currently has TWO MINUTES visitor time. Surely you can beat that without having to lower yourself to cheating. If *I* couldn't do that, I'd wonder where the heck all my ingenuity and creativity went to. The whole premise of the top 100 list was supposed to be that it would be a challenge to see how you could strategize to get as high as you could. Cheating is NOT strategizing. It's that simple. You want something that other people have, but you don't wanna work to get it. Have a wedge of cheese.

 

[dinaj]

Either way as a long term player of this community for you to do that I think is reprehensible. We long term players are the backbone of this operation. We set the example for the newbies. I do not want that example to include giving off the impression that cheating and exploiting is OK,


I am a long term player, that just wants to be a player. I play to enjoy the game not police it or babysit.

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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Why is it so tough for some folks to allow us to ask a simple question without getting that 'tone'? I have every right to ask for clarification on a rule that appears to be no longer in affect.

I'd rather get the subject out in the air and get it settled then to sit around grumbling and belly aching about it.



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It makes me wonder too. With those gruesome comparions and indiffereance to every thread should make it obvious. And then to tell US to use our common sense. Unbelievable! Also CBrewton. Read the OP. I have never cheated in at anything in my life. Now, you have just added your usual point the finger at the bad person to my post. I think you need to consentrate on the subject at hand and leave your garbage out of this thread for once. I really think you stay up at night trying to think of how to bash everyone who writes a post in this forum. Now if your going to quote me, try and get it right, ok. I said "I'd be happy being at # 100 and the readon being is so buyers can see that I have a store and that its open, ok. Since I have been crafting and you will probably see my stuff all over since my store use to sell out daily in BF I may just have a little bit of creativity after all. I only want to be on the borads to be seen OPENED&gt; Get your facts straight for once!!!!!!

 

[gamdaaf]

I like a suggestion of making a mark on the face of an afker and modify the time out to be on green bar left and timeout starts. The Mark could be a yellow ring arround the avatar face. That way we could remove the illegal action because afk is now and has been a function in the game just was a comical setting in the air. But this way one could hide and go afk and stay put for however long you desire, or go ahead and skill till you got to the last green bar then time out and the house owner would not have to kick you if you did not come back in time.

 

[Guest]

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I am appalled at being compared to these kinds of people, when we are making comments about a game. That is really bad!!!

[/ QUOTE ]The actual comparison may be extreme, but it an apt description of someone who doesn't feel the rules apply to him or her.

Until we get official word from the developers that the ToS/UA have changed, the original ToS/UA stands enforceable.

 

[Guest]

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I gotta agree with AJ. Until we're notified that ToS has changed, why would you think it had changed just because some players are slipping through loopholes? Yes, it might mean that the ToS is not being properly enforced, but that's like saying if the police force has a crisis that makes them short staffed so that they cannot catch all the murders and rapists, that its 'OK' to go out and attempt one of the two and play Russian roulette to see if you're one of the lucky ones that gets caught or not. Why do you need someone enforcing the rules to follow them when you know they exists. Are we adults that can control our behavior or not?

Food for thought.

[/ QUOTE ]


I am appalled at being compared to these kinds of people, when we are making comments about a game. That is really bad!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Forget the labels and the parallel applies still......that was the jist of the post. Fill in 'littering' or 'speeding' or 'public lewdness' if you wish. The point is I don't think there's any reasons adults should not be able to behave appropriately without having things spelled out to them, or having someone stand over there shoulder like a parent has to with a child with ADD to ensure that they get their homework done and stay on task. If you act like a child, be ready to be treated like one. If you act like a cheater/exploiter, be ready to have the same boom come down on your head either by the devs or by this community that would come down on any poster here who openly bragged about their cheating and even went so far as to advocate that others do it, or that it just be made to be OK just to make it easier for those that want to do it. Think about it, if we're gonna start doing that, then hell why stop there? Why not abolish the ToS all together? Let the players make up their own rules as they go along. Wonder how long the game would go in a state of total anarchy without ultimately self-destructing? I know you're not suggesting this, but it is a domino effect. One 'lax change' leads to another, leads to another, leads to another, etc. This is really not a bad rule to have to follow, it just requires that you actually at least semi play the game while hosting your store.

and amazed, imagine that, eh?

 

[Guest]

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I am appalled at being compared to these kinds of people, when we are making comments about a game. That is really bad!!!

[/ QUOTE ]The actual comparison may be extreme, but it an apt description of someone who doesn't feel the rules apply to him or her.

<font color="red"> Until we get official word from the developers that the ToS/UA have changed, the original ToS/UA stands enforceable.</font>

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There's the answer, from a mod, hooray!....only a few steps removed from the devs themselves. The mods are charged with enforcing the ToS here on the boards, therefore I *think* they have a pretty good handle on what it says and doesn't say, so I trust their word on it just a little bit less than I'd trust a dev directly, but not much. They are the voice of the game when the devs cannot be around.

 

[Guest]

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What a comparision, since this is nothing more then a game. Unbelievable!!!

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Believe it. I'm well known for saying exactly what I believe, and in the way that I feel it needs to be said.

If you don't like the comparison, feel free to ignore me. But that doesn't automatically make me wrong just because you happen to disagree with the labelling.

It may be "just a game" to you but some people take it very seriously. After all, if it didn't matter, why would people be cheating to try and 'get the upper hand' against those who prefer to stay within the rules?

 

[dinaj]

How seriously can anyone possibly take this game? It is a game after all.

 

[Guest]

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Actually one of the things that the devs have talked about is the ability to own more then one property at once and for that property to be visitable by others without the need for the owner/roomie to be there.

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Probably the easiest thing is to just get rid of the visitor hours/bonus. Then people can cheat all they want and it won't give them that unfair advantage over those who don't override timeout.

Let a store's popularity then be based on their prices, and the quality of the custom objects they sell, not how much cheating they can get away with.

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The bonus has been gone for months.
It's bad enuff you come back ranting and raving and stirring people up all over again, but you could, at least, pay attention.

As to the rest of your "solution", I have little doubt that NO MATTER WHAT is done, you will find cheaters under the bed that MUST be dealt with.
You have been wailing about how the game can't survive for 5 years now - yet, it's still here despite your 'oh so insightful' predictions.

You have stated publicly and often how much you despise TSO - so spare us your 'benevolence'.

 

[Guest]

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Sims can use the hide feature for ways it was not intended to be used too. More people "exploit the bug" in the hide feature more than they "exploit the bug" in the sleep feature. However both are well known bugs and are considered exploitation.

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I'm not aware of any bug in the 'hide' feature.
Could you elaborate, please?

 

[vapd3317]

oooooo....Ive seen it Donavan....a big ole wooly booger bug. It hides under the green four poster. Ran into it a couple times. It eats rare pets. Lost an affie to it once,....called him fugly bugs. poor poor fugly.

 

[Guest]

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Sims can use the hide feature for ways it was not intended to be used too. More people "exploit the bug" in the hide feature more than they "exploit the bug" in the sleep feature. However both are well known bugs and are considered exploitation.

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I'm not aware of any bug in the 'hide' feature.
Could you elaborate, please?

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There is a bug....but if I told you what it was, I would have to pull my own post and send myself a warning........

 

[Guest]

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Sims can use the hide feature for ways it was not intended to be used too. More people "exploit the bug" in the hide feature more than they "exploit the bug" in the sleep feature. However both are well known bugs and are considered exploitation.

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I'm not aware of any bug in the 'hide' feature.
Could you elaborate, please?

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There is a bug....but if I told you what it was, I would have to pull my own post and send myself a warning........

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LOL !

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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I gotta agree with AJ. Until we're notified that ToS has changed, why would you think it had changed just because some players are slipping through loopholes? Yes, it might mean that the ToS is not being properly enforced, but that's like saying if the police force has a crisis that makes them short staffed so that they cannot catch all the murders and rapists, that its 'OK' to go out and attempt one of the two and play Russian roulette to see if you're one of the lucky ones that gets caught or not. Why do you need someone enforcing the rules to follow them when you know they exists. Are we adults that can control our behavior or not?

Food for thought.

[/ QUOTE ]


I am appalled at being compared to these kinds of people, when we are making comments about a game. That is really bad!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Forget the labels and the parallel applies still......that was the jist of the post. Fill in 'littering' or 'speeding' or 'public lewdness' if you wish. The point is I don't think there's any reasons adults should not be able to behave appropriately without having things spelled out to them, or having someone stand over there shoulder like a parent has to with a child with ADD to ensure that they get their homework done and stay on task. If you act like a child, be ready to be treated like one. If you act like a cheater/exploiter, be ready to have the same boom come down on your head either by the devs or by this community that would come down on any poster here who openly bragged about their cheating and even went so far as to advocate that others do it, or that it just be made to be OK just to make it easier for those that want to do it. Think about it, if we're gonna start doing that, then hell why stop there? Why not abolish the ToS all together? Let the players make up their own rules as they go along. Wonder how long the game would go in a state of total anarchy without ultimately self-destructing? I know you're not suggesting this, but it is a domino effect. One 'lax change' leads to another, leads to another, leads to another, etc. This is really not a bad rule to have to follow, it just requires that you actually at least semi play the game while hosting your store.

and amazed, imagine that, eh?

[/ QUOTE ]


Again, it's hard for you to determine what my motives are because you seem to be stuck on "your a cheater" instead of seeing my frustration about the #1's and the ones that do cheat. I have not executed that idea yet but if people are doing this afk thing freely with no regards to the rules and with
*nothing*
being done to stop it then why would the dev's like they stated in city hall even care if I go AFK. Why do you always take things to extreme? And please don't ever compare me to a murderer or rapist since I am married to a cop and I hear about these hidious crimes way too often..It does not even compare. That's a harsh and disgusting example coming from a upright sim citizen such as yourself. Oh, and thank you for the cheese since you have blessed us with the whine. I have played this game honestly for many years and being AFK has been going on the entire time but most recently since the trees came into the game with out a single ever being done. So if it makes you feel superior to talk down to everyone who may disagree with some of your comments then go for it. You may stand correct on these rules which I have never disagreed with you on, its just the way you express them. If it had of been a newbie, they would have packed thier bags and went on thier way. There is a big difference between stating your opinion and bashing others for thiers.

 

[vapd3317]

CBrewton/AJ

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It's an advantage because of the flaw of the top 100 list being ranked like they are. It's based on VH, so when players do this with more than just their own roomie sim(s) then they are gaining visitor hours unfairly, jumping other players who really deserve to be there by playing fairly, having superior customer service and all the things that make a QUALITY store lot.

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Appears that you are attacking Shirl when she supported owners/roomies being afk, yet turned around and stated that what is unfair is to have non-roomies/visitors that are afk. Now THAT sounds like a personal attack when you admittedly alter your stance to another poster.

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Lee and Greg have both openly discussed this in the community house, and dont have a problem with AFK owners or roomies. Now that buy mode is more or less gone, they need stores to be open.

What they DID have a problem with is a multitude of afk non roomie sims that are there hiding on a property primarily to manipulate the top 100 list. There are a couple of stores tht stick out like a sore thumb for this rule flouting, and its hard for them to deny it when they have 100 plus visitor hours.

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And it also appears by another poster that some DEVs have already voiced thier opinion on this issue.

How about jumping off that fence and choosing a side instead of playing stratics politics. Or do you have nothing better to do than attack every post Shirl places?

oh and btw,...between you and AJ trying to parallel an illegal act, to nonconformity with a RoC or ToS is absolute ignorance. Show me the statute under the federal state or local crimes which shows how the NCIC is going to list my new FBI number for any TSO offenses. Where the hell is Judge Judy when I need her? I wanna have her call AJ so he can state "The ToS is the Law !!!". Holy cow, you go JUDGE DREDD.

Although, I will say that I spend more time on stratics than I do in game now. Guess I'll have to go afk hide my sim at a store so I can enjoy the continued and uninterrupted drama of the forums.

 

[Guest]

I like the way you think.

 

[DGLita]

Thank you VAPD for acknowledging my post regarding the fact that the devs have openly discussed this issue regarding AFK stores. I mention this point everytime the AFk issue comes up but it generally gets ignored.

The discussion took place several times at the community house in TC3, Lee argued with a number of players about this reason why AFK stores should be tolerated.

After these discussions had taken place, about a week later I think, I had an in game message from an EA rep wanting to know if I was AFK or not. It was bad timing on their part, becasue I had literally just logged in and landed on my lot, if they had waited another 5 minutes I wouldnt have been at my desk.

I sent a message to Greg stating to him that although he was saying it was ok for stores to be AFK, the reality was that if someone complained about it then the AFK sim would be investgated by the CSR team and possibly be banned.

I attach here his reply to me. I doesnt entirely explain the previous discussions, but you will get the gist of it. BTW Greg in TC3 was called Stir

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/litabelaqua/Stirmesssage.jpg

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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Thank you VAPD for acknowledging my post regarding the fact that the devs have openly discussed this issue regarding AFK stores. I mention this point everytime the AFk issue comes up but it generally gets ignored.

The discussion took place several times at the community house in TC3, Lee argued with a number of players about this reason why AFK stores should be tolerated.

After these discussions had taken place, about a week later I think, I had an in game message from an EA rep wanting to know if I was AFK or not. It was bad timing on their part, becasue I had literally just logged in and landed on my lot, if they had waited another 5 minutes I wouldnt have been at my desk.

I sent a message to Greg stating to him that although he was saying it was ok for stores to be AFK, the reality was that if someone complained about it then the AFK sim would be investgated by the CSR team and possibly be banned.

I attach here his reply to me. I doesnt entirely explain the previous discussions, but you will get the gist of it. BTW Greg in TC3 was called Stir

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/litabelaqua/Stirmesssage.jpg



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That's just wrong when I still see the busy tops lots hosting so many people in the early hours of the morning. You'd think that someone would report them instead of of someone like you that took it to Dev's for permission. I think the the staff at EA needs to get together on this issue once and for all since it is really making people ugly. I am sorry they singled you out !!!!

 

[Guest]

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Thank you VAPD for acknowledging my post regarding the fact that the devs have openly discussed this issue regarding AFK stores. I mention this point everytime the AFk issue comes up but it generally gets ignored.

The discussion took place several times at the community house in TC3, Lee argued with a number of players about this reason why AFK stores should be tolerated.

After these discussions had taken place, about a week later I think, I had an in game message from an EA rep wanting to know if I was AFK or not. It was bad timing on their part, becasue I had literally just logged in and landed on my lot, if they had waited another 5 minutes I wouldnt have been at my desk.

I sent a message to Greg stating to him that although he was saying it was ok for stores to be AFK, the reality was that if someone complained about it then the AFK sim would be investgated by the CSR team and possibly be banned.

I attach here his reply to me. I doesnt entirely explain the previous discussions, but you will get the gist of it. BTW Greg in TC3 was called Stir

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/litabelaqua/Stirmesssage.jpg



[/ QUOTE ]

That's just wrong when I still see the busy tops lots hosting so many people in the early hours of the morning. You'd think that someone would report them instead of of someone like you that took it to Dev's for permission. I think the the staff at EA needs to get together on this issue once and for all since it is really making people ugly. I am sorry they singled you out !!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so sure I understand where you are coming from. It seems to me it was just an initial lack of communication between the devs and CSR's, which has since been (possibly) corrected going by the message from Stir.

I do agree that EA should clarify this and possibly update the ToS, because apparently their word isn't enough until it is written there, regardless of the fact that we also agreed that our gameplay experience may change at any time.

Part of me wonders, even if they did update the ToS, how many players would still fight the battle that "AFK IS NOT FAIR, AGAINST THE RULES, ETC".

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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Thank you VAPD for acknowledging my post regarding the fact that the devs have openly discussed this issue regarding AFK stores. I mention this point everytime the AFk issue comes up but it generally gets ignored.

The discussion took place several times at the community house in TC3, Lee argued with a number of players about this reason why AFK stores should be tolerated.

After these discussions had taken place, about a week later I think, I had an in game message from an EA rep wanting to know if I was AFK or not. It was bad timing on their part, becasue I had literally just logged in and landed on my lot, if they had waited another 5 minutes I wouldnt have been at my desk.

I sent a message to Greg stating to him that although he was saying it was ok for stores to be AFK, the reality was that if someone complained about it then the AFK sim would be investgated by the CSR team and possibly be banned.

I attach here his reply to me. I doesnt entirely explain the previous discussions, but you will get the gist of it. BTW Greg in TC3 was called Stir

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/litabelaqua/Stirmesssage.jpg



[/ QUOTE ]

That's just wrong when I still see the busy tops lots hosting so many people in the early hours of the morning. You'd think that someone would report them instead of of someone like you that took it to Dev's for permission. I think the the staff at EA needs to get together on this issue once and for all since it is really making people ugly. I am sorry they singled you out !!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so sure I understand where you are coming from. It seems to me it was just an initial lack of communication between the devs and CSR's, which has since been (possibly) corrected going by the message from Stir.

I do agree that EA should clarify this and possibly update the ToS, because apparently their word isn't enough until it is written there, regardless of the fact that we also agreed that our gameplay experience may change at any time.

Part of me wonders, even if they did update the ToS, how many players would still fight the battle that "AFK IS NOT FAIR, AGAINST THE RULES, ETC".

[/ QUOTE ]


Amen to that!!! Let's just hope that the last part of your quote doesnt happen.

 

[Aelisa]

It just dawned on me that in my previous post I neglected to say that even though I'm afk on occasion, I don't circumvent the time-out thingy. I set my timer for 14 minutes just in case I forget (forgetting is the latest addition to my many and varied talents).

Just wanted to clarify that so I can retain some semblence of decency and honor. Or whatever.

 

[Guest]

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Just wanted to clarify that so I can retain some semblence of decency and honor. Or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh. You can't really say anything without losing honor and decency with some people, while at the same time gaining it with others. It's a pretty tricky concept.

 

[Guest]

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If it had of been a newbie, they would have packed thier bags and went on thier way. There is a big difference between stating your opinion and bashing others for thiers.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a newbie is coming here and intends to cheat to 'get to the top' then frankly I think we would be better off without them.

I'm not attacking anyone specifically - but I have always been very strongly of the belief that cheating in online games to get "one up" over players who choose to stay within what I see as fairly clear cut rules is wrong.

Of course if someone comes here and says "ha ha I cheat" of course I'm going to give them a verbal smackdown (as far as the rules allow me). Often there's no actual maliciousness within the cheating, merely a thought of "well everyone else does so it must be ok" - so thus the old timers who are still here have the duty of educating those who are new to help them stay within the rules - otherwise when they do get caught, all they can say is "not fair, everyone else does [whatever] so why can't I".

It's a shame that every online game I've ever experienced has the cheater problem ... I just rest happily knowing that I play fair, and I get a lot more satisfaction out of playing the game the way it was intended to be played than going out with a high level, well equipped character without the faintest clue how to actually play.

 

[Guest]

My thoughts on this, the whole issue is totally ridiculous. AFK stores don't bother me at all, I much prefer just popping in and buying what I need, it's nice when I actually need to request something to find someone home though. I go to stores where they answer IM's. What really gets me angry is the top of the list stores all competing for top spot with 20+ alts hidden there 23 hours a day. There is just no way us little guys can compete without resulting to the same crap. I really don't like having to waste my resources having to stick a bunch of alts under the furniture just to show on the map or even hope to get in the top 50 on the list but that is exactly what is happening. Everytime I look at the map our shop doesn't show up. We've not stuffed our alts there for visitor time because we really don't see that as a fair way to play the game, but I see no other way of staying in business at this point. It's a damn shame to me, that anyone feels as though they actually accomplish something by cheating their way to the top.

I suggest the list is changed, drastically. I would like to see a rotation of stores listed more so than I see now. We are going to have many cities all in one, it would be nice for 10 to show in each of the cities, rather than just 15 total. I see she who must be #1 is ready in case they go alphabetical, but I'm sure those who want so badly to beat her will make theirs AAAA. I think an alternative would be to go by actual sales per day rather than hidden visitor hours. Those who must be at the top will still do what it takes to be there, but they'll have to do alot more work than just hiding sims under the rug.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Sims can use the hide feature for ways it was not intended to be used too. More people "exploit the bug" in the hide feature more than they "exploit the bug" in the sleep feature. However both are well known bugs and are considered exploitation.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not aware of any bug in the 'hide' feature.
Could you elaborate, please?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a bug....but if I told you what it was, I would have to pull my own post and send myself a warning........

[/ QUOTE ]
uh huh
sure

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

<blockquote><hr>

My thoughts on this, the whole issue is totally ridiculous. AFK stores don't bother me at all, I much prefer just popping in and buying what I need, it's nice when I actually need to request something to find someone home though. I go to stores where they answer IM's. What really gets me angry is the top of the list stores all competing for top spot with 20+ alts hidden there 23 hours a day. There is just no way us little guys can compete without resulting to the same crap. I really don't like having to waste my resources having to stick a bunch of alts under the furniture just to show on the map or even hope to get in the top 50 on the list but that is exactly what is happening. Everytime I look at the map our shop doesn't show up. We've not stuffed our alts there for visitor time because we really don't see that as a fair way to play the game, but I see no other way of staying in business at this point. It's a damn shame to me, that anyone feels as though they actually accomplish something by cheating their way to the top.

I suggest the list is changed, drastically. I would like to see a rotation of stores listed more so than I see now. We are going to have many cities all in one, it would be nice for 10 to show in each of the cities, rather than just 15 total. I see she who must be #1 is ready in case they go alphabetical, but I'm sure those who want so badly to beat her will make theirs AAAA. I think an alternative would be to go by actual sales per day rather than hidden visitor hours. Those who must be at the top will still do what it takes to be there, but they'll have to do alot more work than just hiding sims under the rug.

[/ QUOTE ]



Thank you for putting this into words I failed to express in my OP. I don't even care about it anymore. I have given more merchandise away than i've sold anyway. I don't much care what some of the people here feel about me either. I am a giver, not a cheater! I have furnished many of the top skill houses with my crafts and things I brought with me on the Bullet Train at no charge to them. Having thier respect and friendship means more to me then having to try and prove i'm not i'm not a cheater. They can think what they want about me because I don't much like hateful know it alls anyway. I jhave also seen your CC CntryGrl and it is so nice. I have purchased many things so don't let the top list discourage you because you are very talented!!!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

What really gets me angry is the top of the list stores all competing for top spot with 20+ alts hidden there 23 hours a day. There is just no way us little guys can compete without resulting to the same crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's "AFK cheaters" you're talking about right there. As I've stated before, someone who is not actually sitting at their computer but "nearby", hears the doorbell of a visitor and comes back to deal with them, greet them, or prod timeout at 14½ minutes is NOT an 'afk cheater'. It's those overriding timeout (which has always been against the ToS in spirit, if not in exact words) that are the problem.


<blockquote><hr>

I suggest the list is changed, drastically. I would like to see a rotation of stores listed more so than I see now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've suggested this before, so the "newest online" goes to the top of the list. The only way then for someone to 'stay at #1' is to keep closing and reopening their place, and if they are having 20+ accounts sitting on their lot hiding to artificially inflate the visitor hours then it's more of a pain in the butt for them, hopefully to the point it's not worth it.

<blockquote><hr>

I think an alternative would be to go by actual sales per day rather than hidden visitor hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they did that, someone would write a bot that sold back and forth between two accounts objects all day, not costing the owner anything but artificially inflating the figures.

The only 'fair' way that nobody can really cheat with is to do away with visitor hours altogether, as they really serve no practical purpose for 99% of the playerbase AND are no indication of whether a store is actually any good.

The practice of payouts and zombie visitors artificially increasing popularity is, unfortunately, one thing that TSO did contribute to Second Life - and it's an ongoing battle there that, until measurement of popularity is removed, will remain there too.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Actually one of the things that the devs have talked about is the ability to own more then one property at once and for that property to be visitable by others without the need for the owner/roomie to be there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the easiest thing is to just get rid of the visitor hours/bonus. Then people can cheat all they want and it won't give them that unfair advantage over those who don't override timeout.

Let a store's popularity then be based on their prices, and the quality of the custom objects they sell, not how much cheating they can get away with.

[/ QUOTE ]
The bonus has been gone for months.
It's bad enuff you come back ranting and raving and stirring people up all over again, but you could, at least, pay attention.

As to the rest of your "solution", I have little doubt that NO MATTER WHAT is done, you will find cheaters under the bed that MUST be dealt with.
You have been wailing about how the game can't survive for 5 years now - yet, it's still here despite your 'oh so insightful' predictions.

You have stated publicly and often how much you despise TSO - so spare us your 'benevolence'.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excuse me, Donavan, but I *have* paid attention, I AM a CURRENT player, and I agree with him totally

This isn't the time for benevolence and beating around the bush. This is a time for brutal honesty, taking the bull by the horns and making sure the past does not repeat itself. It seems to me that you are allowing your known distaste for AJ to make you dismiss anything he says out of hand, whether he actually has a point, or not. Don't do that.

 

[Guest]

Again, it's hard for you to determine what my motives are because you seem to be stuck on "your a cheater" instead of seeing my frustration about the #1's and the ones that do cheat. I have not executed that idea yet but if people are doing this afk thing freely with no regards to the rules and with
*nothing*
being done to stop it then why would the dev's like they stated in city hall even care if I go AFK. Why do you always take things to extreme? And please don't ever compare me to a murderer or rapist since I am married to a cop and I hear about these hidious crimes way too often..It does not even compare. <blockquote><hr>

That's a harsh and disgusting example coming from a upright sim citizen such as yourself. Oh, and thank you for the cheese since you have blessed us with the whine. I have played this game honestly for many years and being AFK has been going on the entire time but most recently since the trees came into the game with out a single ever being done. So if it makes you feel superior to talk down to everyone who may disagree with some of your comments then go for it. You may stand correct on these rules which I have never disagreed with you on, its just the way you express them. If it had of been a newbie, they would have packed thier bags and went on thier way. There is a big difference between stating your opinion and bashing others for thiers.

[/ QUOTE ]

That comment was directed at you, because you stated you PLANNED to to join the ranks of the circumventing the time out cheaters. If you have been an upright sim citizen, there's no reason for you to stop simply because the masses are cheating, or because guests are rude. If you're sick of dealing with rude guests, there's another option besides joining cheaters: CLOSE YOUR SHOP. Yes, I do bash anybody who cheats, and yes I am hard on those who say they are upstanding citizens and then in the next breath say they are considering becoming a cheater because basically 'the game is getting too hard'. You have a choice in which category to put your house. If you dont like stores, don't run one, and sell the rest of your crafted objects to people through the trade function, just like everybody else who sells crafts but doesn't want to run a store doe. There is no, zero, nada, zilch excuse that justifies cheating in a GAME as some of you have been so quick to point out. If the game is just a game, then cheating is unnecessary because it doesn't matter whether you are 'successful' or not. Period....plain and simple.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

CBrewton/AJ



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's an advantage because of the flaw of the top 100 list being ranked like they are. It's based on VH, so when players do this with more than just their own roomie sim(s) then they are gaining visitor hours unfairly, jumping other players who really deserve to be there by playing fairly, having superior customer service and all the things that make a QUALITY store lot.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Appears that you are attacking Shirl when she supported owners/roomies being afk, yet turned around and stated that what is unfair is to have non-roomies/visitors that are afk. Now THAT sounds like a personal attack when you admittedly alter your stance to another poster.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, those are two separate things related to the same topic that are unfair. It's wrong for an owner to go on extended afk through circumventing time out *and* its unfair for that owner, or any owner to park non-roomie sims, also hiding and/or circumventing timeout for the benefit of gaining VH. Not right is not right, but if you want me to 'weigh' which one is *more* not right it would be the 2nd one, though cheating is cheating is cheating is cheating.

<blockquote><hr>

Lee and Greg have both openly discussed this in the community house, and dont have a problem with AFK owners or roomies. Now that buy mode is more or less gone, they need stores to be open.

What they DID have a problem with is a multitude of afk non roomie sims that are there hiding on a property primarily to manipulate the top 100 list. There are a couple of stores tht stick out like a sore thumb for this rule flouting, and its hard for them to deny it when they have 100 plus visitor hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and that is why I brought up the second scenario in the first place and explained why it was wrong, because somebody said they didn't understand *what the big deal was*.

I feel their stance of not caring about it is dead wrong, and would have said so if I'd been there when it was said. There are enough players in this game who do not cheat, especially now that we can have so many sims in a city and can therefore divide our interests, that I'm sure players could and would open HONEST stores if these dishonest players were dealt with and the honest players, like Shirl, didn't start to feel like they *HAD* to cheat to get anywhere. It's sad that things have come to that, even though like I told her, NOBODY *has* to cheat, even in these times. Saying they are OK with it because stores need to stay open is a farce actually for saying they just don't want to take the time and manpower to go against the ones doing it. We're making so much forward progress, it disappoints me that they are dropping the ball on this critical issue.

It does not in any way negate the other positives, but it CAN thwart the benefits that these positives will have on the game, and I hope ultimately they see that this is a big error in judgment, amongst all the other GOOD decisions they've made since last March. We don't need this thorn on the rosebush.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I'm not so sure I understand where you are coming from. It seems to me it was just an initial lack of communication between the devs and CSR's, which has since been (possibly) corrected going by the message from Stir.

I do agree that EA should clarify this and possibly update the ToS, because apparently their word isn't enough until it is written there, regardless of the fact that we also agreed that our gameplay experience may change at any time.

Part of me wonders, even if they did update the ToS, how many players would still fight the battle that "AFK IS NOT FAIR, AGAINST THE RULES, ETC".

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct. This is a business. Until something like this is written it is not 'law'. As for whether or not people would still fight the battle, I would not hassle players about it as I have in this thread, but I would take it up with EA if they were to follow through with this. Since they haven't, for now I'm going to believe that the matter is still under advisement and that they will still take the protests of the active long-term players as a sign that maybe they made a mistake. If that doesn't happen, then the matter would have to be dealt with on a higher level than can be done here on the forums.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Actually one of the things that the devs have talked about is the ability to own more then one property at once and for that property to be visitable by others without the need for the owner/roomie to be there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the easiest thing is to just get rid of the visitor hours/bonus. Then people can cheat all they want and it won't give them that unfair advantage over those who don't override timeout.

Let a store's popularity then be based on their prices, and the quality of the custom objects they sell, not how much cheating they can get away with.

[/ QUOTE ]
The bonus has been gone for months.
It's bad enuff you come back ranting and raving and stirring people up all over again, but you could, at least, pay attention.

As to the rest of your "solution", I have little doubt that NO MATTER WHAT is done, you will find cheaters under the bed that MUST be dealt with.
You have been wailing about how the game can't survive for 5 years now - yet, it's still here despite your 'oh so insightful' predictions.

You have stated publicly and often how much you despise TSO - so spare us your 'benevolence'.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excuse me, Donavan, but I *have* paid attention, I AM a CURRENT player, and I agree with him totally

This isn't the time for benevolence and beating around the bush. This is a time for brutal honesty, taking the bull by the horns and making sure the past does not repeat itself. It seems to me that you are allowing your known distaste for AJ to make you dismiss anything he says out of hand, whether he actually has a point, or not. Don't do that.

[/ QUOTE ]
I see you pay attention as well as he. Try reading it again - this time, look for the word "bonus".
Ah ah ah - no hints, you'll have to find it yourself.

Then, while you're at it - read the rest again. If you STILL don't understand it, perhaps you could get someone to explain it to you.

In the meantime - Congrats on the number of cliche's you were able to squeeze into one paragraph.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Actually one of the things that the devs have talked about is the ability to own more then one property at once and for that property to be visitable by others without the need for the owner/roomie to be there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the easiest thing is to just get rid of the visitor hours/bonus. Then people can cheat all they want and it won't give them that unfair advantage over those who don't override timeout.

Let a store's popularity then be based on their prices, and the quality of the custom objects they sell, not how much cheating they can get away with.

[/ QUOTE ]
The bonus has been gone for months.
It's bad enuff you come back ranting and raving and stirring people up all over again, but you could, at least, pay attention.

As to the rest of your "solution", I have little doubt that NO MATTER WHAT is done, you will find cheaters under the bed that MUST be dealt with.
You have been wailing about how the game can't survive for 5 years now - yet, it's still here despite your 'oh so insightful' predictions.

You have stated publicly and often how much you despise TSO - so spare us your 'benevolence'.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excuse me, Donavan, but I *have* paid attention, I AM a CURRENT player, and I agree with him totally

This isn't the time for benevolence and beating around the bush. This is a time for brutal honesty, taking the bull by the horns and making sure the past does not repeat itself. It seems to me that you are allowing your known distaste for AJ to make you dismiss anything he says out of hand, whether he actually has a point, or not. Don't do that.

[/ QUOTE ]
I see you pay attention as well as he. Try reading it again - this time, look for the word "bonus".
Ah ah ah - no hints, you'll have to find it yourself.

Then, while you're at it - read the rest again. If you STILL don't understand it, perhaps you could get someone to explain it to you.

In the meantime - Congrats on the number of cliche's you were able to squeeze into one paragraph.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understood it quite well, you were totally sarcastic and belittling to AJ, just because he is 'returning' to the game and hasn't been here the whole time. For all you know he has been lurking most of the time and just not posting......then again, maybe not. I do know that he's kept up with what's been going on in general, as I personally have had conversations with him about it myself. If you want to be received in what you think is the 'right' way as far as what you say, then you might want to consider rewording things in a way that don't reek of sarcasm and self-righteousness. If I remember correctly *you* took a break too, as did I, so I don't think you're in any position to criticize someone for having a minor detail wrong that happened during maybe a week that you weren't paying attention, per se.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I see you pay attention as well as he. Try reading it again - this time, look for the word "bonus".

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoop de doo. So I missed ONE TINY DETAIL that had changed in the time I haven't really been reading Stratics much. Or was it even here, was it tucked away on that blog thing or their super-special Wiki thing that only the elite few have taken over?

Stop grasping at straws trying to justify yourself and score points. Nobody is impressed.

"Stopping the timeout working by any method apart from being active at the computer playing TSO is cheating, and therefore is wrong".

Do you need me to spell it out even simpler for you?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Whoop de doo. So I missed ONE TINY DETAIL that had changed in the time I haven't really been reading Stratics much. Or was it even here, was it tucked away on that blog thing or their super-special Wiki thing that only the elite few have taken over?

Stop grasping at straws trying to justify yourself and score points. Nobody is impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe instead of getting upset and huffy because you were proven wrong you should just graciously thank Donovan for giving you a critical piece of information that you may have overlooked since your return.

If you need assistance finding or understanding the wiki I would be more than happy to help, I'm not one of these "elite" that you speak of but I have had no problems with it.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Maybe instead of getting upset and huffy because you were proven wrong you should just graciously thank Donovan for giving you a critical piece of information that you may have overlooked since your return.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it 'critical'? Whether bonuses are being paid or not does not change the fact that overriding timeout and being afk all day keeping your property open is clearly cheating.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Whoop de doo. So I missed ONE TINY DETAIL that had changed in the time I haven't really been reading Stratics much. Or was it even here, was it tucked away on that blog thing or their super-special Wiki thing that only the elite few have taken over?

Stop grasping at straws trying to justify yourself and score points. Nobody is impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe instead of getting upset and huffy because you were proven wrong you should just graciously thank Donovan for giving you a critical piece of information that you may have overlooked since your return.

If you need assistance finding or understanding the wiki I would be more than happy to help, I'm not one of these "elite" that you speak of but I have had no problems with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think he meant 'elite' in understanding...I think he meant elite as in one of the many clique that form. Now, as to whether or not I agree with that, I dunno. I do know that sometimes I've started to create a page over there, but stopped myself because I felt 'out of place', but no person over there really caused me to feel that way, I just did....it seems to be the same people posting over there for the most part, and sometimes its hard to 'elbow in' to an already formed circle. It *is* possible, but it's not easy, for sure, so I can understand partly where he's coming from, as it is an issue that I am confronting and working on myself.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Maybe instead of getting upset and huffy because you were proven wrong you should just graciously thank Donovan for giving you a critical piece of information that you may have overlooked since your return.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it 'critical'? Whether bonuses are being paid or not does not change the fact that overriding timeout and being afk all day keeping your property open is clearly cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, agreed. The elimination of the bonuses had two intentions, I believe. One was so that the money would not skew the economy, and two was so that the 'drive' to get to the top would ostencibly not be so severe. But the faulty part is that hours do count, and everybody wants to see their name *in lights* so to speak, even if they're not getting paid for it, so the only way to accomplish the second goal is to remove the VH counter along with the bonus, in addition to cracking down on those caught cheating, until such time that the ToS is changed in writing.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I don't think he meant 'elite' in understanding...I think he meant elite as in one of the many clique that form.

[/ QUOTE ]
Partly, also I just don't "get" wiki's. I've tried several times on different ones, and just don't understand all this editing and whatnot.

I don't go much on blogs either, because you can't discuss what you want, only the subjects provided for you.

I much prefer forums as a communication tool. That's why I never understood why EA made the blog and wiki and splintered what was left of the TSO community, giving us 3 places to have to read to keep up with things, instead of one place that was already perfectly adequate for the task - Stratics.

Some people prefer the blog or the wiki... fine, that's up to them. But I am comfortable here.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The elimination of the bonuses had two intentions, I believe. One was so that the money would not skew the economy, and two was so that the 'drive' to get to the top would ostencibly not be so severe. But the faulty part is that hours do count, and everybody wants to see their name *in lights* so to speak, even if they're not getting paid for it

[/ QUOTE ]

For most people, money in TSO was never really an issue and the bonus was so small it didn't make much of a difference. Especially when a lot of the top houses were using bots on other accounts to make money for them.

Unfortunately it's "human nature" to want to get to the top, by fair means or foul. It's a pity most choose the latter.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I see you pay attention as well as he. Try reading it again - this time, look for the word "bonus".

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoop de doo. So I missed ONE TINY DETAIL that had changed in the time I haven't really been reading Stratics much. Or was it even here, was it tucked away on that blog thing or their super-special Wiki thing that only the elite few have taken over?

Stop grasping at straws trying to justify yourself and score points. Nobody is impressed.

"Stopping the timeout working by any method apart from being active at the computer playing TSO is cheating, and therefore is wrong".

Do you need me to spell it out even simpler for you?

[/ QUOTE ]
You make a declaration as to how easy it would be to stop the cheating based on a mistake of fact that has been in evidence on the boards and IG for months (widely and hotly discussed) - a mistake that guts at least half of your argument - but it's "ONE TINY DETAIL"????
It wasn't "ONE TINY DETAIL" when you were using it to support your argument.
This isn't something that would have been missed due to a few days absence - this is indicative of the fact that you were not the least bit concerned about what happens in TSO. And is bolstered by the fact that the overwhelming majority of your posts since the inception of EA Land (and before) have attacked TSO while singing the praises of SL. Now we are to believe that you are concerned for the integrity of the game you so openly despise????
I don't think so.
So, here you are, stirring the pot about how TSO is riddled with cheaters and how you are the one to define it and clean it up, using your 'experience' and 'reputation'.
Bah!

All you are concerned about is putting TSO down and promoting SL.
It is my steadfast belief that you are deliberately attempting to sabotage EA Land.
And THAT, my friend, is "cheating" in the real world!

 

[Guest]

ttl

The game is changing, money objects are no longer an option to use while keeping a store open and people have been saying for years that it is completely boring to sit in a store, doing nothing on the offchance that someone might stop by. The sooner we get the ability to have a second property that can be open 24/7 without us needing to be there, the better in my opinion.

I'd much prefer to see a list of what is open, rather then a list by visitor hours, especially in a store category. The number of visitor hours doesn't mean zip when you're looking for something small that can no longer be found in the catalogue at home.

Polly

 

[Guest]

Donovan, some things never change.

Just because I have been gone for a while and am trying to catch up with the changes does not mean the things that have not changed are no longer relevant.

As for "promoting SL", I'm there because of boredom caused by EA's lack of interest in the game. I'm doing very well too, thankyou. I came back to see what's going on, and despite EA trying to copy SL in so many ways, give them another chance to see what they might be able to do with what's left of TSO.

I have as much right as anyone to be here and voice my opinion, sorry. I was in "EA Land" for about an hour just earlier today, so that gives me the right.

You might like a lot of the changes. That's your right, as much as it is mine not to.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Donovan, some things never change.

Just because I have been gone for a while and am trying to catch up with the changes does not mean the things that have not changed are no longer relevant.

As for "promoting SL", I'm there because of boredom caused by EA's lack of interest in the game. I'm doing very well too, thankyou. I came back to see what's going on, and despite EA trying to copy SL in so many ways, give them another chance to see what they might be able to do with what's left of TSO.

I have as much right as anyone to be here and voice my opinion, sorry. I was in "EA Land" for about an hour just earlier today, so that gives me the right.

You might like a lot of the changes. That's your right, as much as it is mine not to.

[/ QUOTE ]
aj, some things never change - as usual, you are missing the point.
I fully agree that this game has many problems that need to be addressed - but none of those problems is the focus of my responses to you.
The point is this:
YOU are not the one to tell anybody what the problems are.
YOU are not the one to suggest fixes/work-arounds/solutions.
YOU are not entitled to take a self-righteous stand against any of the problems that plague the game.
Why? Because you sold us out - you couldn't just go to SL and enjoy yourself. Or even just split your time between the 2 games.
No - you delighted in putting TSO down (and by extension all of us who play it) at every opportunity. Barely a post hit a thread that didn't contain some kind of promotion for SL at the expense of TSO and it's subscribers.

Back in the day, even though I disagreed with many of your ideas, I still had a bit of grudging respect for you because I thought that, however misdirected your opinions might be, at least you had the best interests of the game at heart.
No more.

One more thing.... what you are doing with your "right" to post your opinion is on a par with the "right" of that Internet site to put Prince Harry's life at risk by revealing details of his deployment for the sake of "news".

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The point is this:
YOU are not the one to tell anybody what the problems are.
YOU are not the one to suggest fixes/work-arounds/solutions.
YOU are not entitled to take a self-righteous stand against any of the problems that plague the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have as much right to as anyone else, whether you like it or not.

As for comparing this to the Prince Harry thing... wasn't that web site american? You really are getting desperate aren't you?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

The point is this:
YOU are not the one to tell anybody what the problems are.
YOU are not the one to suggest fixes/work-arounds/solutions.
YOU are not entitled to take a self-righteous stand against any of the problems that plague the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have as much right to as anyone else, whether you like it or not.

As for comparing this to the Prince Harry thing... wasn't that web site american? You really are getting desperate aren't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if it was, are you generalizing that the wrongs of one American website portray the entire country? Shouldn't really matter if his comparison was in fact an American one...