For Those Who Are Unsure...

[Baghdaddy1]

I don't post much, just lurk a lot (like 6 years) and I have read where a lot of people are wondering what the "ultimate Doom/champ/peerless" tank is and I would like to add my 2 cents.

I play a simple samurai/paladin that does heavy pvp and pvm. I have not changed my template since Nov. 2004. I absolutely love the defense Bushido gives me. This was taken earlier this evening when I was doing my Doom circuit. Now, to get the damage like that is kind of rare, so don't think it was every hit. I'd say the average hit (once perfection built up) was 120-170ish.

In a nutshell: C/W, Divine, EoO, 10 lvl of perfection, critical hit (non slayer weapon) going off along with the counter attack (normally when soloing big bosses I keep evasion up at all times but I decided on counter attack to get the screenie). There is no doubt in my mind that the Sammy/pally or Sammy in vamp form is the superior template to be a supertank. Happy hunting

 

[Guest]

Excellent. Can you give us your template, stats, equipment details? Just for curiosity.

 

[Baghdaddy1]

120 swords
120 parry
120 bushido
100 tactics
100 anatomy
90 healing
70 chiv

helm of insight
gauntlets of nobility
jackals collar
rune beetle carapace
fey leggings
high resist mana regen 2 sleeves
ring, 13 HCI/DCI, resists
brace 12 HCI/ 10 DCI, 7 LMC, resists
5 DCI quiver
primer on arms talisman
crimson

stats with gear on:
str- 130 hit points
dex- 145
int- 78

lowest resist is 63 and highest is 66, 48 DCI, 30 lmc, 7 mana regen, 40 DI (minus weapon), for weapons, I prefer ornates with ssi, mana leech, hld at the minimum.

If I could find a way and acquire the gear, I would love to run this guy in vamp form.

 

[Keegan-ElF]

Impressive to say the least.

I dropped my chiv for Focus, but then again my Sammy warrior is more set up for PvP.

Though I might just have to do a thing or three for PvM on another character.

 

[Guest]

Nice setup. Nigh unkillable in PvM.

I had the same thing, except maces instead of swords. In order to try the necro mode, I soulstoned healing/anatomy for necro/resist/med and bumped tactics to 120.

I found that I wasn't taking enough damage with evasion and that I had plenty of healing with confidence, vamp form's life leach, and chiv. The only downside was that I was using even more mana.

Also, in PvP, if a mage figures out you have no resist, you will be mana drained and para-ganked. An ignominious and humiliating way to die.
It'll rarely hapen in PvM. Sometimes a lich or lich lord will use mana drain, but they're hardly a threat.

 

[genuine_fake]

Have you been able to solo the Dark Father with that template? I have almost the same exact thing, only with 40 out of Tactics for Necro to turn Vamp with items. I can kill any of the bosses (sometimes the Abyssmal Horror gets me) except the DF.

The reason I was thinking I could solo him was because of a guy I saw down there who was using the exact same thing and could take it alone. He died sometimes, but not that often, and he said that he's killed a DF alone before in 12 minutes.

Any tips?

 

[Baghdaddy1]

Yes, I can solo the Dark Father but I have to pay extra attention to the blood oaths (instant death for me) and I have to keep the spawn under control. I am in the process of setting some macros for cutting the bones up. Its been about 3 years since I have done Doom so I feel like a gauntlet newbie again, hehe.

Without the spawn, the DF would be real easy. The only threat he poses to me is blood oath. I'll be honest in saying that there is no way I can do it in 12 minutes though, more like 30-40 min. Hopefully if I get the bone cutting down it will be less. I like your idea of the 40 tactics for the vamp form. That is the only thing I want to experiment with on this template. I'll give it a shot.

The key to soloing the DF that I have seen work for me is: always honor it, the perfection is sick damage, run evasion, use momentum strike (or whirlwind if the spawn is building up) on the revenants and spawn. I spend most of my time clearing the spawn out but I have absolutely no problem going toe to toe with the DF (sans oath). The rest of the Doom bosses are real easy. Just got to pay attention to the blood oaths.
Hope this helps

 

[genuine_fake]

Thanks... I tried it last night, but it was so horrible I couldn't bear to try it again. He killed me about 3 times. I just plain wasn't able to hit him. I always have lightning strike going too (HCI max), and the spawn hadn't even popped up yet. 115 macing too, but do I have to have 120 in order to hit him?

What kind of weapon do you use? Since I heard that elemental slayers do work on him, I found a nice club with 52 mana leech, air elemental slayer, 28 damage increase, and 27 hit lower defense. My suit has 9 MR, 21 LMC, and 64/70/70/55/69 resists. He would hit me for like 48 and then a second later for 56, I don't even know what it was. I know it wasn't blood oath because I never saw the visual and it never popped up in my status gump. On most everything else I fight I rely on my bandages and the leech from Vamp form to heal me, but I wasn't leeching anything because I wasn't hitting. Maybe I should switch to swords and use the Soul Seeker, the 3 leeches and 60 SSI is starting to look very nice.

 

[Baghdaddy1]

I'll be honest and say I am not sure about slayers that work on the DF. I know deamon works but I am unsure about the elemental. I will try my Z-claw and see if it works.

I do not use any slayers. All I use is an unenhanced ornate axe with high SSI, DI, Mana leech and HLD and it works fine (as long as I keep consecrate up but as long as perfection is running, its not a big deal). You don't need 120 to hit the DF as far as I know, 115 should suffice. I also use the soul seeker or a mystic halberd with high ssi, di, mana leech, hit harm for whirlwind if the spawn is getting too bad.

It does seem like you are getting hit awfully hard. I dont really pay attention to what i'm getting hit for because he seldom hits me back to back (max parry and DCI 4tw). Im gonna try and swap some tactics out for some necro. Stick with it, once you find your groove, it is too easy.

 

[genuine_fake]

I suppose one of my problems is a lack of DCI. Other than the 5 from my quiver, I have none. Add to that I only have 115 bushido and 110 parry and I'm not evading as much as you either. I'll try to rework my suit.

Thanks a ton for the encouragement, I'll keep trying. And I'm going to switch to swords anyways, it's too hard to find nice mace weapons (without them swinging like molasses).

 

[Guest]

Also understand there is a HUGE difference between 115 bushido/110 parry and 120/120. For this template against those monsters it is vital to have them maxed. Look at that post on these forums a few months ago setting the evade chance for different skills and you will see it is substantial.

Just keep working with the template and you will love it. It is hard to get going, but once you get the right set up and everything you will LOVE the char.

 

[genuine_fake]

Have you seen how much those 120 Bushido and 120 Parry scrolls cost?

To buy the scrolls I have to make money. To make money I have to earn artifacts in Doom. To earn artifacts in doom I have to have 120 Bushido and Parry.

It just doesn't work out for me.

However, I checked out the difference between 120/120 and the 115/110 that I have. The parry chance for 120/120 is 35% while at 115/110 it is a 31% chance. According to the Samurai Forum FAQ (which may be outdated, don't know), evasion adds 50% to your parry chance, regardless of amount of Bushido. So the difference between 15 or so million gold is a 4% Parry chance.

I think this is wrong though, because according to that I would be parrying 81% of all the junk he throws at me, and I really don't think I am.

 

[Guest]

I don't know the actual numbers, but going off the numbers you provided...
"evasion adds 50% to your parry chance"

Parry chance + Evasion addition = Parry w/Evasion chance
(50% of Parry chance)
30% + 15% = 45% ?(100/100)?
31% + 15.5% = 46.5% (110/115)?
35% + 17.5% = 52.5% (120/120)

i doubt it adds 50% to 31%

I don't know if the evasion effectiveness scales by skill level also, if so then these numbers will be off for the stats that list Bushi under 120

 

[Baghdaddy1]

I finally did some template altering after 2 plus years. I went ahead and stoned my gm tactics and replaced it with 45 tactics and 55 necro to give vamp form a shot. I was getting real envious reading how everyone enjoyed it.

I go down to the gauntlet and was simply amazed. The damage output was a little bit lower but I was still getting criticals for 180ish rather than 220ish but IMHO, the benefit of the life leech in itself is worth the vamp form. I found that it took me much less time to kill the DF (did not die) and I actually welcomed the spawn as you can see by the screenie. The hits I was scoring with momentum strike and whirlwind kept me near full health.

I was impressed to say the least and look forward to going back down there. The rest of the bosses were an absolute joke. I killed the darknight creeper so fast that 2 fleshies spawned (i dont know, i was alone and I'm not sure what made the other fleshie spawn) and at first I though I bit off more than I could chew but with the life leech and confidence, momentum strike 4tw. I wish I grabbed a screenie of that.

Sadly, I have been soloing doom all week and haven't got nothing. lol, thats how it goes I guess. Just got to find some bracers and trade my taming mark for the necro one.

 

[Guest]

Nice. I may see if I have a good demon slayer mace and a reworked suit with a lot of DCI and head on down there.

Offhand, I think you'd want to have a little HLD 25+ on your weapon. Once it goes off, you will quickly build up perfection and will be running with max perfection most of the time. Looks to me like you are already doing that, but I wanted to mention it anyway.

Also, I was under the opinion that consecrate weapon has no effect on the DF because all the resists are the same. Do you mean EOO?

Finally, if you have EOO up, don't you take extra damage from the other spawn? Granted, with vamp form, it probably doesn't matter, but I thought that's how it worked.

Again, the only thing that you'll have to worry about (a little) is being mana drained by a lich or lich lord. They like to do that and if it happens at a critical time, you could be in trouble.

I'm guessing the ideal weapon would be:
war hammer or black staff (for whirlwind)
undead slayer
HLD
DI/HCI/SSI/DCI (the usual suspects)
hit fireball
100% fire damage

 

[genuine_fake]

<blockquote><hr>

I don't know the actual numbers, but going off the numbers you provided...
"evasion adds 50% to your parry chance"

Parry chance + Evasion addition = Parry w/Evasion chance
(50% of Parry chance)
30% + 15% = 45% ?(100/100)?
31% + 15.5% = 46.5% (110/115)?
35% + 17.5% = 52.5% (120/120)

i doubt it adds 50% to 31%

I don't know if the evasion effectiveness scales by skill level also, if so then these numbers will be off for the stats that list Bushi under 120

[/ QUOTE ]
ROFL, I'm so sorry, I wasn't thinking when I posted that. I really do know that it's not 81% chance to parry. Thanks for putting the numbers up Ni.

So, it looks like it is a 6% increase. As soon as I can afford it, I will get 120 bushido and parry. Besides, at 120 it is like 1 in 5 LS is critical right? That will be nice.

Baghdaddy, I'm glad you like it! Yes the life leech is amazing. How are you liking that extra mana and stamina regen too? I actually got SUPER lucky and my 2nd artifact I've ever got from doom was the midnight bracers (first was jackal's collar, only got 2 so far). I don't have a mark, but I have only 40 necro and it works great for me. Puts me at 104 (one of my jewels is only +14) and thats plenty enough for me. I insure 20 LRC head, gorget, and leg pieces so I don't have to use regs.

Oh and I do think the elemental slayers work on the DF. Go look in the warrior forum for the post named "What slayers work on the Dark Father?" by me. Sorry, I'm too lazy to go get the link. Anyhow, in there Guildmule tells me they work. I went and tried it with that Air Elemental slayer i mentioned, I think it does work. Also, now I've decided to switch to Fencing. I just got the most AWESOME Pitchfork to use on the DF. It has 40 stam leech, 40 mana leech, 25 ssi, earth elle slayer, and 38 damage increase. How cool is that?

One more question I forgot about. The poison that the RCs give you, I'm guessing it is the highest level right? I've noticed that it isn't resisted by Vamp form. Also, I have about 94 Healing and I fail to cure it every once in a while. I never actually get the fail to cure message, but it just says you finished applying the bandages and doesn't heal the poison. Is this normal?

 

[genuine_fake]

Yes Croaker, EoO really hurts to use on the DF. I only use it in the very beginning of the fight, when he is alone. Once the spawn comes I don't dare use it. Mostly because if a Lich just goes off on you, you're pretty screwed. Even though you're in Vamp form and you'll leech more from doing more damage, it just isn't worth it because of how much damage the critters do to you. Also, if you have 100% DI on your weapons, built up Perfection, and a Demon slayer weapon, the 50% DI from EoO is not doing you any good, since you're already at the 300 cap.

I'll elaborate a little on the Elemental slayers. They supposedly give a 50% damage increase on the DF instead of the normal 100% from Demon slayers. I can't honestly confirm this, because I haven't done serious testing (which would be pretty hard to do), but I did notice an increase when using the air elemental slayer.

I would love to get HLD on my weapon too, but I don't want to go searching for another weapon. Maybe I could use the Mace and Shield glasses? The effect of HLD is only a 20% DCI penalty, so maybe it's not vital that I have it.

 

[Baghdaddy1]

Decided to solo a Dread Horn last night and was pretty impressed with the end results. We all know that the hardest part of the Twisted Weld is gathering the keys. I was extra careful in my steps and used patience dealing with each creature. I was prepared to embrace honor but never had to.

After about 30-45 min I grab all the keys and place them in the statue. I was curious as to how this was gonna go because you hear of disco tamers and the such soloing the DH and maybe two dexxers cross healing but not much about a single dexxer.

I teleported in and quickly honored the DH and put up my usual buffs. I was amazed on how fast this fight went. Even though he has way more HP than the DF, I was able to focus on him solely. At no time did I feel the need to run to the other side of the island and heal, actually the leech and perfection was working so well that at times I stopped using evasion and went with counter attack. I moved positions one time because there was a small group gathering keys and was dying often around the altar and I wanted them to see me.

It was very satisfying opening the Dread Horn corpse knowing that it was all for you and you did not have to go back to the "Guild House" to roll for elite items. I put a lot of hard work in making my character and getting the right gear as well as perfecting his tactics. From looking at the clock on my computer, from the time I went in to when I killed him was roughly 17 minutes.

So far so good, everything looks under control

Everything is running smooth, getting anxious to finish the DH

Closing in on the kill

Thats a wrap!

 

[Guest]

Nice job. I logged into my samurai for the first time in 6 months last night to give this a try. I've completely forgotten how to play him. Gotta get back into practice. I think I'll head down to the citadel.

Had to completely rework the suit to add 45 DCI while keeping mostly 70's resists and some MR. Now, however, I find that my LMC/MR aren't keeping up. DCI was actually helping a lot.

Looks like I'm going to be working on this suit for some time. I may have to go farm swoops with my tamer for a while...

Do you find that you use the healing a lot? Is VE life leech and chiv enough healing for you?

I also couldn't get any HLD on my suit. I'm using the brightsight lenses for the MR, but would consider the mace-and-shield glasses. In my experience, once the HLD hits, you essentially never miss - which is good for a samurai working perfection. Even 20% HLD will be sufficient with something like the DF or dreadhorn that has so many hitpoints.

 

[your_average_joe]

With vamp form running, are you finding healing and anatomy worthwhile still? I've been considering doing a straight up chiv sammy with vamp form and was wondering how I'd be without healing.

 

[Guest]

Yeah, that's what I was asking. I found previously that healing wasn't used much in vamp form, and I could get by easily with chiv healing.

However, if you're soloing a DF or dreadhorn, it seems healing may be very useful.

What about doing this?
120 macing/parry/bush/tactics
50 necro
70 chiv
80 healing
40 anat

You don't need to cure with vamp form very much (and chiv can take care of that, or a pot).

I think I'm going to try it. Seems like it should work, and I think I have at least 80 healing stoned somewhere.

 

[Baghdaddy1]

I do find healing and anat useful. Granted the leech from vamp form is the primary healing but the healing worked great for curing lethal poison and a couple of close calls. I prefer defense anyday over offense. For lesser bosses you could easily do without heal but I like having it for DH and DF.

I did DH again 2 times this morning and everything went off without a hitch. Got some really good loot and it is sooooo much faster killing DH rather than the DF (at least for a dexxer). If I have time tonight, I might try a proxy solo. Im not worried about his attacks, if I can momentum strike his blobs of acid and get them dead, i might be ok. We'll see.

To compensate the vamp form i put on the brightsight lenses, they are working great, though I hate to not wear the helm of insight (most underrated dexxer piece of armor hands down), I love having the 48 DCI, I fully recommend not trying any high level pvm without max DCI. Croaker, you are right about the HLD, my ornate carries 45 and as u can see from most of my screenies, I am at max perfection pretty much during the whole fight. Happy hunting.

 

[Guest]

I'm planning to use an exiler or the titan's hammer for doom, and take along a decent silver-etched mace just in case. Probably the pixie swatter or winds edge for the DH. None of these have HLD.

Thus, I'm going to try to find the mace-and-shield glasses and sacrifice a little mana regen, which I can probably regain by using the carapace.

I think, with a little swapping and a good bit of gold (good thing I have that), I can almost match that suit, even with the mace-and-shield.

You might have a big problem with proxy. As I remember it, he lethal poisons A LOT. Take orange pots and perhaps take along a mage that can archcure.

 

[Balian]

<blockquote><hr>

Ok, I was able to put together this suit:

Mace and shield glasses
jackal's collar
crimson cincture
stormgrips
totem of the void
rune beetle carapace
quiver of infinity
fey leggings
ring: dci 14, lmc 7, di 23, poison resist 7
brac: str 8, dci 12, lmc 8, fire 4, cold 15
arms: mr 2, 15/19/6/6/17

Totals:
DCI 46, HLD 30, mr 5, hpr 8, lmc 40, 70/47/70/33/70 in vamp form
stats str 133, hp 132, dex/stam 125, int 58, mana 68

I'd like to get my fire and poison resist up a bit, but I ain't complaining. Now I just need to re-learn how to use him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello,

I dont have an arty suit for my dexxer, but this is what I have.
70/70/44/70/75
HLD 70 with a bokuto that has 40hld/40ML/40Stam and 45DI its a sweet PVM wep but I would prefer something with whirlwind attack.
HCI 41 if I switch to Totem it adds 15 HCI
DCI 51
HPR 5
MR 5
114/140/66

120 Bush/Parry
106 of 120 sofar Swords
100 Anat
100 Resist
90 Tact
90 Heal

To do what you guys are doing, what skill would you stone so I can add Chiv to my temp, I have 80 on a stone

And then, with this toon, do you think it could do some soloing in Doom?

I have 120 Fencing on a stone, Ive got some nice weps too, but no whirlwind weps. Ive got mostly 1 handed forks/spikes.

Is Swords the way to go with soloing Doom? the Soulseeker? A good leeching wep?

Thanks in advance!!!!

 

[Balian]

<blockquote><hr>

I finally did some template altering after 2 plus years. I went ahead and stoned my gm tactics and replaced it with 45 tactics and 55 necro to give vamp form a shot. I was getting real envious reading how everyone enjoyed it.

I go down to the gauntlet and was simply amazed. The damage output was a little bit lower but I was still getting criticals for 180ish rather than 220ish but IMHO, the benefit of the life leech in itself is worth the vamp form. I found that it took me much less time to kill the DF (did not die) and I actually welcomed the spawn as you can see by the screenie. The hits I was scoring with momentum strike and whirlwind kept me near full health.

I was impressed to say the least and look forward to going back down there. The rest of the bosses were an absolute joke. I killed the darknight creeper so fast that 2 fleshies spawned (i dont know, i was alone and I'm not sure what made the other fleshie spawn) and at first I though I bit off more than I could chew but with the life leech and confidence, momentum strike 4tw. I wish I grabbed a screenie of that.

Sadly, I have been soloing doom all week and haven't got nothing. lol, thats how it goes I guess. Just got to find some bracers and trade my taming mark for the necro one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi,

Thats a sweet pic, all the others are too.
Umm, what items are you using to raise necro in order to cast VE?
After you are in Vamp form, do you change the items back to keep your uber suit as is?


Thanks

 

[Phear]

Can Anyone give me an example of the weapon they are using to do this ?

 

[genuine_fake]

Balian, your template looked about like what Baghdaddy's did before he tried out vamp form, and he said he could solo it then, so I'd say yeah that template is good to go. You asked about the items you use to raise necro, so I'm guessing you're interested in Vamp form. It is quite worth the investment. Anyhow, there are many items that can raise your necro. The most possible would be all of the following: mark of travesty +10, midnight bracers +20, ossian grimoire +10, bloodwood spirit +5, ring +15, and bracelet +15. This means that you could have 24 necro and turn Vamp with all these items. However, many cannot afford all of it and just choose to pick up about 50 or so and get the easier to obtain items. I keep mine at 40, because I don't have a mark of trav with +10 necro and I also like to go to 105 Necro so it doesn't take me forever to cast. After you turn Vamp, you can take all the items off and put on your regular suit. The effect stays.

Phear, Baghdaddy said he uses ornate axes with high DI, Hit Lower Def, Mana Leech, and Swing Speed Increase without slayers for all the bosses. Although you can look at each boss and try to find a slayer or a weapon that matches their element, you can just use Consecrate Weapon and not worry about slayers. I have a great Earth Elle slayer for the DF (any elemental slayer also works on the DF) but my main weapon for almost all the other bosses that I sometimes use on the DF is an Elven Spellblade with 48 mana leech, 37 hit lower defense, 25 swing speed increase, and 38 damage increase. It works great in any situation. Sometimes I try to get weapons with elemental advantages over some of the bosses is because I hate casting Consecrate Weapon over and over.

 

[Guest]

Well, this new suit is pretty awesome. I'm soloing paragon succubi without much effort. Just tanking without moving. Killed about a dozen of them today and only died once - to a couple of lucky hits that tanked my stam and killed my swingspeed before I could succeed at divine fury (~78 chiv).

I'm next going to try soloing a paragon balron or two. If I can do that, I should be ready for dark fathers or dreadhorn.

One concern that I have, however, is what the new evasion chance is, now that they require tactics/anatomy for evasion. Currently I have both at GM or better, but if I add healing, I've got to drop one.

I suppose I could try running protection, so I can be sure to get off my close-wounds when I need it.

 

[Guest]

Had to search down to page 7! This should be in the faq.

Pub 43 made these changes to evasion:

----

# Evasion modifier to parry now scales with Bushido skill


* If the player has higher than GM Bushido, and at least GM Tactics and Anatomy, they get a bonus to their evasion modifier (10% bonus to the evasion modifier to parry NOT 10% to the final parry chance)
* Bonus modifier to parry range: (these are the ranges for the evasion modifier)
o 16-40% bonus w/o tactics/anatomy
o 42-50% bonus w/ GM+ bushido and GM tactics/anatomy

# Evasion duration now scales with Bushido skill

* If the player has higher than GM Bushido, and GM Tactics and Anatomy, they get a 1 second bonus
* Evasion duration range:
o 3-6 seconds w/o tactics/anatomy
o 6-7 seconds w/ GM+ Bushido and GM tactics/anatomy

 

[Baghdaddy1]

Nice work on the succubi. I did not have much time last night but I went ahead into the Proxy palace. The only thing I had trouble with was the putrifier. I had him almost redlined and he got me, i did not have anymore sacrifice rezzes left so by the time I got rezed back up (had to go to papua) he was at full health again and I did not have the motivation to do it again.

I made it harder on myself by rushing in there. I should of prepared the battlefield properly by luring all of the poison ellies and plauge beasts back to where the other 3 keys are commonly collected. And I'll prob have to hop on my laptop with my mage and make a safe spot for him to hide and rez me, when needed.

If I can get the putrifer all by himself, i know I can kill him. I'll play it safe and go toe to toe and then after a hit pull back, heal, joust a little and get perfection up on him, this technique works great for paragon balrons. I think getting the spleen from him is harder than proxy himself.

With a good one hander, orange pots and momentum strike i should be able to clear out his acid blobs. I know for a fact if I can get proxy all by himself I can beat him. I'll try and get around to it tonight. But for now, I enjoy the solo Dread Horns, did 2 more this morning

 

[Baghdaddy1]

To get the vamp form, I had to drop my tactics to 45 and set necro at 55 (dont have all the leet necro gear yet). I dont notice that much of a difference in damage so it seems to be working fine. I fully recommend healing for the high level bosses. This evening, DH would of got me if I wasnt using aids as secondary healing (enhanced for 100). Good luck to you.

 

[Guest]

By dropping tactics you lose the evasion bonus. Does this not bother you because you rarely use evade (counterattack instead) or because you have so much DCI the reduced evade does not hurt you?

As to survivability generally I have found I really need to focus on pre-fight setup if I want to live. If I remember to honor, consecrate and cast divine fury before I begin attacking I am in great shape. But sometimes I forget and then I am behind the 8 ball the entire fight. I haven't played a dexxer in about 4 years so relearning the template takes some time in that I don't automatically default to dexxer mode.

One suggestion I have for people is counterattack rather than evade. If you are doing enough damage (i.e. over 80 damage) you will leech more damage than most can deal out particularly if you are getting 2 hits (i.e. leeching from over 150 damage). It worked much better than I would have expected.

 

[Guest]

Yep, I always run in vamp form. Midnight bracers and +30 from jewelry lets me vamp form using an arcane robe, then change back to normal equipment.

Evasion definitely got worse when I went from 110 to 40 tactics, but the damage output only dropped a bit. Healing was, indeed, very helpful and lets me use a bit less mana. However, I tried soloing the DF last night a few times, and got my hat handed to me consistently.

I'm beginning to think that the weapon choice needs to be reconsidered. I'm using an exiler (tetsubo) for the DF. I haven't tried the counter attack trick, but I'll give it a go.

 

[- Revenant -]

Im running something similar atm

115 Swords
120 Bushido
120 Parry
115 Tactics
80 Necro
80 SS
70 Chiv

Mostly run in vamp form but for bosses switch to wraith form for mana and use curse weapon for godly life leech. Biggest problem is actually gettin to the peerless or doom. I'm having lots of problems with the Bone Daemon, he just hits so often. Gonna pick up some fey leggings and get some more DCI on my jewellery. Using Mace n Shield , Stormgrip , RBC , Jackals. Gonna try and work some more DCI in there. I usually use a Blackthornes slayer against the Bone Daemon but this has to stop because I cant use evasion with it... Thats probably why I die so often to him.

 

[kettlewhistle78]

[quote I usually use a Blackthornes slayer against the Bone Daemon but this has to stop because I cant use evasion with it... Thats probably why I die so often to him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why not?

 

[- Revenant -]

Its use best weapon skill for me, and you cant evade with a non skilled weapon.

 

[Guest]

Aye. I found that out the hard way yesterday.

So, I'm now looking around for a fast, one handed macing weapon with HML, HLA, HLL, SSI, DI. It seems much easier to find uber swords weapons than uber macing weapons, which may mean a change of template to add swords.

 

[Guest]

I tried Dreadhorn last night and it was an unmitigated disaster.

I did fine against changelings and Gnaw (he was actually very easy to kill). Then I went to Spite or Guile and just could not get the job done. I was only hitting for about 45 points a strike which isn't enough to leech and stay alive. I tried it a few times and made sure to honor it and consecrate weapon, etc. - but I had no luck. I was using a battle axe with 54 mana leech, 45 hld, 15 ssi and 30ish damage increase.

I only had about 45 minutes to play so I may go back tonight and see what I can do differently. I need to figure out my lack of damage issue.

 

[Baghdaddy1]

Patience is the key to the twisted weld. Lately, when I am key gathering, I will collect at least 2 of each key. As quiet as the swamp area can be, in a second it can get crazy.

I walk one step at a time and watch the names pop up on my screen. Irk, Guile, and Spite can be killed easy (one on one) with a weapon that is low physical dmg (for them I use the luminous rune blade or a rune blade with 44 HLD, FC 1, DI 47, HML 45). But if 2 of them jump in on the fight, I retreat back to the swoops because as pointed out, you cannot leech enough.

Sometimes I am lucky and Guile and Spite are far to the left and I can go right in and farm irk and both lady spiders for keys and other times I just can't get them out of the way (or after killing them repeatedly, they keep spawning in a bad spot). In that case I will embrace honor and go for the keys I need in that 5 mintute or so period.

Here is some pics of my DH battle last night. Pretty smooth sailing but you cannot get overconfident and let your guard down because in a second you can be off in a bad way. Takes about 17-20 good minutes to drop DH but its taxing because you have to be focused the whole time but looting his body is worth it in the end.

 

[Guest]

I've been having the same problem with DF. I'm thinking of the following tricks.

1. curse weapon. This should improve HLL.
2. A faster one handed weapon with HLD, HLL, HML, HLA, SSI, DI or some combination in this priority order HML, SSI, HLA/HLD, DI, HLL. One hander should allow pot chugging for more healing/curing/dex/str.
3. Jousting.

 

[genuine_fake]

Yes, when I was looking through Macing weapons to use I considered the Exiler, but with no Mana leech I realized it couldn't ever work.

The problem I've been having with the DF is just staying alive... he hits me so hard and so fast, it doesnt matter if I'm leeching or not, he outdamages me. Without blood oath, he could drop me in 10 seconds. I don't know what I'm doing wrong either. I think HLD is a necessity, because if you miss 3 swings you're pretty much dead. The only way I could tank him was if a bard was discording him for me. I have to find a weapon with HLD, HML, SSI, and DI, and maybe get myself a pair of Mace and Shield Glasses.

The guy I have mentioned wears Mace and Shield Glasses and, get this, a full set of Assassin Armor! I guess since he uses slow Axes the Assassin Armor helps.

 

[- Revenant -]

Yeah you can use a mount in vamp form.

I actually prefer wraith form. Limitless mana pool. Using curse weapon at 100 ss it lasts for around 15 seconds. Every hit with curse weapon you life leech 50% of the damage guaranteed.

The biggest problem with wraith form is mobility. It takes a while to change out and summon your mount. Usually if you really need to run you're gonna die. And of course you dont get the damage reduction bonus of a swampy.

 

[Balian]

<blockquote><hr>

Yeah you can use a mount in vamp form.

I actually prefer wraith form. Limitless mana pool. Using curse weapon at 100 ss it lasts for around 15 seconds. Every hit with curse weapon you life leech 50% of the damage guaranteed.

The biggest problem with wraith form is mobility. It takes a while to change out and summon your mount. Usually if you really need to run you're gonna die. And of course you dont get the damage reduction bonus of a swampy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for the reply!!

I have been messing around in wraith, and it works well ....slow as cold honey tho..... I really appreciate your reply because I have been working like a madman to get my necro high enough to cast VE and Im trying to get opinions if it is worth the skill point invested.

I still need 21.1 necro to cast VE

TY

 

[Phear]

Are you guys using 1 handed weapons for these battles or is it two handed only what is minimum mana leach do I need do I have to have maxed swing speed ?

 

[kytryl70]

What weapon did you use to do the dread horn?

 

[Balian]

Having no problems with Paragon succubus, no chiv on this char. Wooot

 

[Baghdaddy1]

Ornate axe:

25 ssi
40ish di
40ish hld
55 mana leech

 

[Guest]

It's darn hard finding macing weapons that good. I think it's time to stone my macing and work on swords.

 

[Guest]

I've been thinking the same thing. I have 120 swords stoned so it all depends on what I find for sale first: a heartwood runic saw or a +20 sword scroll.

 

[Guest]

Found an ornate axe almost that good (better in some ways) in luna and bought it. I'm now training swords.

Its:
HML 30
HLD 32 - which combines with my glasses for 62
HLL 75 !!!
SSI 10

DI 42

I'm only about 60 swords so far, but I'll be training it heavily.

I'm wondering if this level of HLL will let me run in wraith form rather than in vamp form. I'll give it a try once I get Elder swords or higher. 120 swords is pretty expensive on Atlantic.