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Focus changes

C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
Hmmm, wasnt this focus for PVP?
Doesnt it say in Storms created copy of the "devs" proposed changes that its
??
I just double checked and didnt see a dev say anything about pvm.
Did I miss something?
From 15 sdi to 40 sdi is a fair difference, I was pointing out that in any situation essence of wind does more damage to a larger area than any other AoE and comes barely in second place of any AoE damage wise in general. So if there was a character with spellweaving and none of those other skills sets (a bard perhaps as I have had in the past), correction a "small group" of such characters could in fact do a tremendous amount of damage to a large area just like necros use to do in choke points against any close range combatant except essence of wind actually has a farther reach than most target spells.
 

Cailleach

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I did say "devs", right?
And these changes are from the devs, right?
So to clarify, I responded to someone who has nothing to do with any changes, but started the thread, but I meant it for the "devs" who initiated these "changes" as I stated.
Roger?
I should put this clarification in all my responses to the "devs" threads when Storm or any other non "dev" copies them for clarity and ease of responding to multiple topics ?

Ive been a member on stratics for quite some many years now....honestly....I know the difference between "devs", and Storm.
Perhaps the unknown "mistake" you refer to would be avoided if the stratics team didnt put their name to DEVS threads?
Im just sayin.....


Perhaps the mistake could have been avoided if you hadn't said 'you devs' whilst quoting Storms post.

You're verging on rude. Please don't.
 

AzSel

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Personally I would prefer if the SDI bonus wasnt only applied to item cap, not everyone is fortunate enough to afford a new suit or a suit with enough sdi to reach the cap. If the cap was raised from 15% to 30% for items, but the 10% remaining was added as a inherent bonus?
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Re: Focus

I would normally agree Azsel, but at the moment I'm thinking that if Casters after their full SDI are willing to sacrifice some HCI, HPI, DI on their equipment.. Anything at all really NOT RELATED to Casters.. Then it's allright with me.

This is not 1-Sided at all, if my Skills' DmgInc Cap was raised to +50% for Specializing I'd definitely let go of some DCI, HPI or other "Tank" stuff as I'm a Dmg Dealer.

This will allow for a minor degree of diversity.. At last. I can only hope things wll go down that way from now on with more changes.

I mean, really, no Dual Wield, no Pot CoolDown, no Skill Trees, BUT WE DO HAVE "Tank Mages with Bushido and full DCI who can Disarm Warriors" and "NecroDinmurai"...? And Special Moves are tied to Items, while Warriors must use MANA..! Hahahahahaha :p I love variety but such things are too much.

Ahh.. :wall:
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
So this is for PvP only and changes nothing in the way PvM works or will work if/when this goes to prodo shards?
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
So this is for PvP only and changes nothing in the way PvM works or will work if/when this goes to prodo shards?
Correct, this has no affect on PvM since there is no SDI cap in PvM to begin with.
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Personally I would prefer if the SDI bonus wasnt only applied to item cap, not everyone is fortunate enough to afford a new suit or a suit with enough sdi to reach the cap. If the cap was raised from 15% to 30% for items, but the 10% remaining was added as a inherent bonus?
Most of the SDI templates are going to encourage wrestlers, or a move away from the one-handed do-it-all mystic mage. If anything, wrestlers are easier to outfit for PvP (plus you can't disarm them for as much loss, so they're even more defensively efficient). No more one-handed mage weps, which cost more than a DCI/SDI spellbook. At least, right now, haha. If you use a scrappers that's an easy 49 SDI from max jewels and book (or 37 SDI from a scrappers and one max jewel). For any template that isn't a wrestler the SDI will be tougher though.
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
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Stratics Legend
I played a bit on a necro dexer last night. Boy is it tough to fit 40 SDI and balance every other mod that you want on a dexer.

I actually think it is pretty balanced with the 40 SDI. You have to sacrifice so much to stay pure that you lose a lot of the burst damage that comes with hybrid templates, it kind of makes up for it.

I hope they don't tone it down too much.

I kind of like this focus concept. :thumbup1:
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I played a bit on a necro dexer last night. Boy is it tough to fit 40 SDI and balance every other mod that you want on a dexer.

I actually think it is pretty balanced with the 40 SDI. You have to sacrifice so much to stay pure that you lose a lot of the burst damage that comes with hybrid templates, it kind of makes up for it.

I hope they don't tone it down too much.

I kind of like this focus concept. :thumbup1:
Did you go test that before or after you played on your smoke bomb with legs "Ackbar" (SP?) for 15 seconds last night?

"Dexxer 99% Mage 1%". You got the unlucky dice roll of me being on my 1%er last night I guess. :p
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
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Stratics Legend
Did you go test that before or after you played on your smoke bomb with legs "Ackbar" (SP?) for 15 seconds last night?

"Dexxer 99% Mage 1%". You got the unlucky dice roll of me being on my 1%er last night I guess. :p
Ackbar doesn't have hiding or stealth, and only 80 jitsu.

You had a horse shoe shoved up your ass for those 15 seconds. I don't understand how i could not connect on a single swing.

How about a rematch !
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The 15 smoke bombs in your bag made me assume smoke bomber. Those must've been leftovers from what you looted off Kraz's mighty faction detect/ss rez killer's corpse.

I'm sure I'll be on tonight. No getting help from Jewel's greater dragon on Serp's dock like you had 2 nights ago though.

Hey, we could get really crazy and go mage vs mage. I think I saw a glimpse of Yoshio (your mage) before you logged on with Ackbar the other night. I'll make sure to leave my bow (that I use 1% of the time now) at home!
 

Specialshoes

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Has there been any mention of how focus will affect the skills that don't have spell damage? Bushido? Ninjitsu?
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
Has there been any mention of how focus will affect the skills that don't have spell damage? Bushido? Ninjitsu?
They don't, the list is "Pure mage, Pure mystic, Pure spellweaver, and Pure Necro" the other skills on the list are there to simply negate the effects of being a pure if you have any of them.
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
IMO I could see a pure template needing -SDI% while in protection. Anything with 40% SDI that can't be interrupted might be a huge crutch for many of players. I can see it now 3 mages in pro walk up (exp precast) next FS... synced... player down. Then again... and again and again. THEN mix in the fact they're all inscribe/anat/healing so they're healing every 8 seconds for 30-55 damage while focusing there mana on purely damage output.
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
IMO I could see a pure template needing -SDI% while in protection. Anything with 40% SDI that can't be interrupted might be a huge crutch for many of players. I can see it now 3 mages in pro walk up (exp precast) next FS... synced... player down. Then again... and again and again. THEN mix in the fact they're all inscribe/anat/healing so they're healing every 8 seconds for 30-55 damage while focusing there mana on purely damage output.
I can agree with this. Would we just bring it down to current SDI ratings? Or are we trying to really stick it to people in protection?
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
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Stratics Legend
Cloak‡1981546 said:
I can agree with this. Would we just bring it down to current SDI ratings? Or are we trying to really stick it to people in protection?
Protection as it is right now is making new skills OP. And would further make the new attempt at balancing pure templates OP.
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
Protection as it is right now is making new skills OP. And would further make the new attempt at balancing pure templates OP.
I was fully agreeing with you, just asked your opinion on how to nerf the problem was all.
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
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Stratics Legend
Cloak‡1981563 said:
I was fully agreeing with you, just asked your opinion on how to nerf the problem was all.
Just put any player in protection at 0% SDI.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Cloak‡1981677 said:
Is this an argument against doing it? I mean...sure I could see people complaining, but people complain about every little thing.
Personally, I would love it if there was 0% sdi in pro form. I was just bracing for the whining to change.

Maybe they could make it 0% sdi in pro for pvp, but keep pvm as is.

You are going to see the worst mages sitting in pro with 50% sdi spamming flamestrike with these changes. It's going to be ridiculously stupid.

I think EA should make "remove protection" scrolls. Not purge, just protection. The mages on my shard are so afraid of being out of pro, that they put every buff possible on themselves (including agil/str pots) just so a purge will miss their protection, if your purge is lucky enough to not be resisted that is.
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
Personally, I would love it if there was 0% sdi in pro form. I was just bracing for the whining to change.

Maybe they could make it 0% sdi in pro for pvp, but keep pvm as is.

You are going to see the worst mages sitting in pro with 50% sdi spamming flamestrike with these changes. It's going to be ridiculously stupid.

I think EA should make "remove protection" scrolls. Not purge, just protection. The mages on my shard are so afraid of being out of pro, that they put every buff possible on themselves (including agil/str pots) just so a purge will miss their protection, if your purge is lucky enough to not be resisted that is.
Another idea that is is reasonable. I did just reply to this in one of the UHall threads you posted in though so I am sure you will see my full response.
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@puni - going into pro for exp/fs won't time up well and will be easy to escape a sync. FS hits well after exp when in prot.
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think EA should make "remove protection" scrolls. Not purge, just protection. The mages on my shard are so afraid of being out of pro, that they put every buff possible on themselves (including agil/str pots) just so a purge will miss their protection, if your purge is lucky enough to not be resisted that is.
while they are at it please go ahead and make Remove Wraith form scrolls. Because I have no idea how the hell a mage is supposed to fight a necro mage that goes into WRAITH form and spams blood oath... The blood oath crap isn't so bad, it's just the Wraith form. I've tried an undead slayer and it doesn't work. So really all we have right now is purge magic to take these guys out which is ridiculous... Dismounted by a necro mage in wraith form and you might as well kiss your magic casting ass goodbye because all they need to do is spam little spells until your out of mana. Now what? :(
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@puni - going into pro for exp/fs won't time up well and will be easy to escape a sync. FS hits well after exp when in prot.
Right, but when the player that is the main target stands there and tries to interrupt a player the 2nd 50 damage FS is going to do anyone in. I wish that a thing would pop up above someone's head much like the *evades* while someone is under the evasion effect would pop up while someone's in protection. *protected* or an aura or some sort for indicating someone's using protection.

To keep it simple though just do 0% SDI for protection.
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
To play in protection you have to overcome so much already, the casting penalty, reduced physical resist, magic resist penalty.

I can doubleshot on my archer for 77 against an all 70s physical resist and that can't be disrupted.

I say leave protection as it is.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
To play in protection you have to overcome so much already, the casting penalty, reduced physical resist, magic resist penalty.

I can doubleshot on my archer for 77 against an all 70s physical resist and that can't be disrupted.

I say leave protection as it is.
*reads between the lines*

You must have some fun 40-50% sdi gimplets set up if these changes go through that run protection!

You're so tricky Lynk, :p
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
*reads between the lines*

You must have some fun 40-50% sdi gimplets set up if these changes go through that run protection!

You're so tricky Lynk, :p
Na, just sick of getting weaken spammed when I'm on with my IRL bud trying to sync. Sometimes when people are being pansies and weaken spamming, the only option left is to take the gayness up a notch and sync in pro.
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
To play in protection you have to overcome so much already, the casting penalty, reduced physical resist, magic resist penalty.

I can doubleshot on my archer for 77 against an all 70s physical resist and that can't be disrupted.

I say leave protection as it is.
*reads between the lines*

You must have some fun 40-50% sdi gimplets set up if these changes go through that run protection!

You're so tricky Lynk, :p
Lynk is correct here. And there is nothing stopping the person from running away when a mage casts explode FS.

Mages using protection already have a huge disadvantage when using it. In some cases, especially with the new upcoming changes, it is very difficult to even cast spells on a dexer when he is DP'in you AI'ing you, and hitting you about once a second with his Kryss. Yes dexers do miss once in a while but there are many dexers who have the right combinations of items that rarely miss. Even to a parry wrestle dci mage.

Each template has its strengths and weakness's, people just have to adjust.

Also you dont hear mages say, "why is there not a delay between switching from one weapon to another"? a weapon can be switched in less than .5 of a second, which is pretty much instantly. You dont hear mages say "why dont people take a dexterity penalty when wielding a shield"?

Dexers can Poison the mortal and then moving shot you. this can be devastating. Yes we can use potions, although the new changes makes it way harder. Yes we can eat apples, although the new changes makes it way harder.

We all have to adapt and deal with the changes. In all fairness Pure mages have been the most nerfed and less updated skill in the game. more than any other skills.

Edit.
You also dont hear mages complain how dexers done use Magic Resist as a skill and just use a trapped box to release the para spell. DUe to this Dexers get an additional 120 skill points to work with.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Lynk is correct here. And there is nothing stopping the person from running away when a mage casts explode FS.

Mages using protection already have a huge disadvantage when using it. In some cases, especially with the new upcoming changes, it is very difficult to even cast spells on a dexer when he is DP'in you AI'ing you, and hitting you about once a second with his Kryss. Yes dexers do miss once in a while but there are many dexers who have the right combinations of items that rarely miss. Even to a parry wrestle dci mage.

Each template has its strengths and weakness's, people just have to adjust.

Also you dont hear mages say, "why is there not a delay between switching from one weapon to another"? a weapon can be switched in less than .5 of a second, which is pretty much instantly. You dont hear mages say "why dont people take a dexterity penalty when wielding a shield"?

Dexers can Poison the mortal and then moving shot you. this can be devastating. Yes we can use potions, although the new changes makes it way harder. Yes we can eat apples, although the new changes makes it way harder.

We all have to adapt and deal with the changes. In all fairness Pure mages have been the most nerfed and less updated skill in the game. more than any other skills.

Edit.
You also dont hear mages complain how dexers done use Magic Resist as a skill and just use a trapped box to release the para spell. DUe to this Dexers get an additional 120 skill points to work with.
I hope you're not being 100% serious with all of those comments.

First you say that dexxers hit you with a kryss almost every second, but that's absurd considering no dexxer hits a properly equipped mage every single swing (which is 1.25 sps max), even if that dexxer has what you called "the right combinations of items that rarely miss". BTW, did you factor in all the skills and di that dexxer had to fit in just to hit a 35 AI every single time he lands an AI with a kryss? Try 100 tacts/100 anat/100 di, just to hit the 35 AI every time, and then add poisoning + fencing to the temp. That's a ton of skill points to squeeze onto a temp just to get 35 pt AI's/high level poisons. I love it when a mage weapon wielding mage (free defensive melee skill btw) makes me whiff 3 times in a row. Now imagine those whiffs while the dexxer is getting 50% sdi flamestrikes from a mage that cannot be disrupted. lol

Actually, ask Lynk about his whiffs vs my mage weapon mage the other night, and I only ran 25% sdi (scribe). I don't run pro vs dexxers on my mage btw. It's lame. If it was 50% and pro, that'd be just silly, especially since the dexxer had so many points invested in his skills just to hit me, but never landed 1 hit because of my free skill mage wep.

If you were getting hit often by dexxers on your parry/wrestle mage, then you had the worst dice rolls ever, or an improper suit/stats because that template does not get rolled on by dexxers, ever. Even when they had the bugged quiver of rages, we would laugh at all the high powered archers flying around us whiffing and tinging away.

Mages can poison dexxers easier than dexxers poison mages. Yes the mortals will stick more now, I agree.

Mages have always complained about dexxers not using resist. Always. It's not a free skill though, because if you're a halfway decent mage, you'll abuse the dexxers that run no resist. Mana vamp anyway? Yes, I'm always vamping dexxers that don't use resist. To be honest, I love it when dexxers make bad templates that don't run resist. It makes things so much easier.

Protection + 50% sdi will allow truly unskilled mages to kill people, just like magic arrow/nether bolt/magic arrow/nether bolt did.

I get Lynk's frustration about being weaken spammed as he's trying to go big. I just don't care for what's coming around the corner, bad mages huddled up holding flamestrikes FTW. I can already envision hearing it in vent:

"I'm fighting such and such."
"Run him to us, we're holding flamestrikes."
"oOOOoooO"
"Pwnage!"
 

o2bavr6

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Stratics Legend
I love it when a mage weapon wielding mage (free defensive melee skill btw) makes me whiff 3 times in a row. Now imagine those whiffs while the dexxer is getting 50% sdi flamestrikes from a mage that cannot be disrupted. lol
Most decent dexers will disarm a mage and then bleed them.
If you are any smart at pvp you will notice that the mage has protection on, wont you?

Mages can poison dexxers easier than dexxers poison mages. Yes the mortals will stick more now, I agree.
I don't think this is entirely true. Yes a mage can cast poison on a dexer but a potion or petals will fix that immediately.
For a mage to DP with poison he has to have the skill and be right next to the dexer, and he doesn't always dp them. The dexer has a much higher chance of dp'ing you when he hits you with his weapon.


Mages have always complained about dexxers not using resist. Always. It's not a free skill though, because if you're a halfway decent mage, you'll abuse the dexxers that run no resist. Mana vamp anyway? Yes, I'm always vamping dexxers that don't use resist. To be honest, I love it when dexxers make bad templates that don't run resist. It makes things so much easier.
True on the vamp i do it all the time as well. but it still gives the dexer an extra 120 skill points to work with. where most mages run resist, which means they are down that 120 skill points... although mages who happen to use a mage weapon makes up for it a bit.

Protection + 50% sdi will allow truly unskilled mages to kill people, just like magic arrow/nether bolt/magic arrow/nether bolt did.
I still say that you should know when a mage is using protection. when you see how slow the spells are casting you can run for the hills. the mage will not catch you cause he will still be in the middle of casting.

I just don't care for what's coming around the corner, bad mages huddled up holding flamestrikes FTW.
I agree in concept with what you are saying here, but... prior to the new sdi changes, what stopped 4 mages from pre casting flamestirke and dropping someone? Or 4 mystic mages casting hailstorm or bombard?

Maybe the solution would be to put back resist the way it was and also have an effect on direct damage spells. this way player who have it wont take the huge hit and would make more sense as a way to help offset the new sdi changes.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
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Stratics Legend
I still say that you should know when a mage is using protection. when you see how slow the spells are casting you can run for the hills. the mage will not catch you cause he will still be in the middle of casting.
Ehh, so we agree on some points, and disagree on others. No worries. With these new changes, mages with poisoning with always land high level poisons, especially vs no resist dexxers. Mages can already land high level poisons as is with 60 necro/joat 20 ss/80 poison /human chars. So they do have workarounds vs poison petals already.

The whole "dexxers" get a free 120 skills is still silly. Mages can run no resist just like dexxers do. Quite a few very good mages I run with do that, and they run mage weapons. Personally, I never do it, but it's done a lot.

Your comment above was the point I was really getting at tbh.

Your solution for a dexxer going against a 50% sdi mage in protection is "run for the hills".

That's lame-sauce imo. Remove protection scrolls with casting speeds equal to protection scrolls would be fair!
 

puni666

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Stratics Legend
No worries. With these new changes, mages with poisoning with always land high level poisons, especially vs no resist dexxers.
I didn't think about how nice this is going to be against mystics that go into protection to spam the almighty cleansing winds spell. Even if it's 4th level poison they're probably going to heal for 20 if that after the cure. I bet they won't even get healed at all if they have curses on them :D. Pretty sweet imo.
 
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