Fel Should Be A No Guard Area

[Triberius]

Just one question about your "grand idea"........

When was the last time you saw a guard at a champ spawn, peerless, or anything pvm related??

My reasoning is that so many of the vocal people want to change this or that with only one aspect of the whole in mind. If so many people want to look at and discuss Fel only from a PvP aspect then fine, make the entire facet only suitable for PvP and nothing else.

 

[Flutter]

Just one question about your "grand idea"........

When was the last time you saw a guard at a champ spawn, peerless, or anything pvm related??

My reasoning is that so many of the vocal people want to change this or that with only one aspect of the whole in mind. If so many people want to look at and discuss Fel only from a PvP aspect then fine, make the entire facet only suitable for PvP and nothing else.

How does this benefit anyone? What are the advantages to this?
If you are serious, and not trollilng (I have a suspicion you are trolling and nothing more) let's hear the benefits of such a plan. Who gains what?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

How does this benefit anyone? What are the advantages to this?
If you are serious, and not trollilng (I have a suspicion you are trolling and nothing more) let's hear the benefits of such a plan. Who gains what?

I think he was at least in part serious. His point is not really to benefit anyone, which is kind of the whole point of this thread, it does not benefit everyone.

If people who play in fel are so uptight about it being PvP (as someone tried to say in this thread that you HAVE to PvP, which by the way you don't.) Then make it truly about PvP.

As everyone knows I am all for fixing the issues we have with the game, and agree with idea's that do in fact promote game play. But let us stop trying to make up reasons as to why we want certain things done. And if you are being honest about your reasons then come back down from your pedestal and realize there a far bigger issues.

 

[Flutter]

How does this benefit anyone? What are the advantages to this?
If you are serious, and not trollilng (I have a suspicion you are trolling and nothing more) let's hear the benefits of such a plan. Who gains what?

I think he was at least in part serious. His point is not really to benefit anyone, which is kind of the whole point of this thread, it does not benefit everyone.

If people who play in fel are so uptight about it being PvP (as someone tried to say in this thread that you HAVE to PvP, which by the way you don't.) Then make it truly about PvP.

As everyone knows I am all for fixing the issues we have with the game, and agree with idea's that do in fact promote game play. But let us stop trying to make up reasons as to why we want certain things done. And if you are being honest about your reasons then come back down from your pedestal and realize there a far bigger issues.[/QUOTE]
I don't know. I genuinely had fun when the guard zones were off for the shadowlord event. It was a lot of fun faction fighting and not having to deal with people I consider griefers. Perhaps that is a little extreme but not any moreso than someone who says pvpers are griefing when they raid spawns.

It seems to me there are plenty of non faction cities (Including Magincia to the person who was trying to make this entire thread about her) for people to bank or buy in. There is supposed to be risk in Fel. It's supposed to be a dark and scary place where murderers and thieves thrive. Why not really make it so? To me, and many others, it is fun.

 

[Triberius]

I think he was at least in part serious. His point is not really to benefit anyone, which is kind of the whole point of this thread, it does not benefit everyone.

If people who play in fel are so uptight about it being PvP (as someone tried to say in this thread that you HAVE to PvP, which by the way you don't.) Then make it truly about PvP.

As everyone knows I am all for fixing the issues we have with the game, and agree with idea's that do in fact promote game play. But let us stop trying to make up reasons as to why we want certain things done. And if you are being honest about your reasons then come back down from your pedestal and realize there a far bigger issues.

Ding Ding Ding someone gets it!

That's exactly it, if all the Hardcore PvPer's want Fel to be all about PvP then fine give it to them, remove anything that hints at PvM and put in place systems that were designed to automatically increase the difficulty of PvP like the Revenants did in Khaldun.

Why should there be carrots dangled everywhere to get the PvP community easy meat, that's not PvP that's wholesale slaughter and bad for the game as a whole. If they want PvP, challenging PvP and in their own little world that's all UO is about to them then fine, let them have it. But don't turn around and cry when the crutch that Spawns provide is offered as a trade off for what they claim to want.

As an alternative, why not demand fixes for what's broken now, and look to ways to get players interested in PvP, real PvP not this pansy 20 people raid a spawn being done by 3 trammies stuff. The PvP community is it's own worst enemy, they are vocal which isn't bad but how they handle things is in generally poorly thought out. No matter what the devs do to UO as it sits currently as far as changes in game, have effect beyond PvP or PvM. Changes effect both sides of the moongate and players who may or may not wish to engage in one play style or the other. Lack of consideration of how any proposal of change effects the whole is childish and counter productive, and a part of what's hurt UO in the past. Not just the PvP guru's but all the players making demands as a whole which the devs have enacted without balancing out the consequences.

 

[Anakena]

Yes I have , as Flutter knows I am very passionate about this......... I play both blues and reds and I know the risk if I head into fel on my blue and I die then was my own fault because I choose to go to Fel.....


You see we have a guild on our shard who only play blues in yew, and our guard zone is whacked we can be by our house a screen away and still get guard whacked by the blues..

The reason people are fighting in at Yew gate is because of the houses where they can hide. On the other hand, those who do not have access to an house have only the guardzone as relative secure spot if they are blue.

As your post confirms it, you try to attack from the safety of your house or wait that someone flags you so you can always go hide back in your house (this is the most common tactic at Yew gate).

If you remove the guard zone, those who do not have access to a house will simply never come.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Who besides myself thinks that all of Fel should be a no guard zone area?


Reasons why..

1) Faction people then can heal each other in any town if red
2) Blues have , 4 other facets to go to be safe
3) Would cut down the number of blues who come to help factions and attempt to guard whack us when fighting



Just a few of my reasons I do have more but them are the main points

Too funny.

Let's radically revamp an entire facet on every shard so that the OP can have his obviously much needed personal faction assistance.

No reason to take into account the thousands of other non-faction people that have been living in Fel for years right?

I still get a laugh everytime I see someone posting about or referring to factions as if they were hardcore. Factions are nothing but a joke. A gank outlet for chest-thumping monkeys that have 'punkte' set to a 1 key macro.

This thread makes my top 5 ridiculously selfish list(and thats not an easy list to crack considering TOS sets age minimum at only 14)

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

GZ around gates is fine but it would be sooooooooo much more fun if fighting could take place in towns (ie. fields can be thrown and reds can be healed). Also factions should extend to tram to................ but this will never happen.

I find it extremely sad that fighting with fields has been so common for so long now that people just dont stop to think about how gimp it really is. Fields are a crutch for lousy Mages and do nothing but promote ganking.

Nothing in this game makes more sense then turning the system back on to flag fielders yet it just doesnt happen due to the FACT that the Dev's are scared of the outcry it would generate.
Every gimp Mage in the game would threaten to quit.

*shakes head*

 

[Flutter]

.

No reason to take into account the thousands of other non-faction people that have been living in Fel for years right?

lol?

There are thousands of non-faction people? In all of UO there may be...30 across all shards?

 

[Martell]

I find it extremely sad that fighting with fields has been so common for so long now that people just dont stop to think about how gimp it really is. Fields are a crutch for lousy Mages and do nothing but promote ganking.

Nothing in this game makes more sense then turning the system back on to flag fielders yet it just doesnt happen due to the FACT that the Dev's are scared of the outcry it would generate.
Every gimp Mage in the game would threaten to quit.

*shakes head*

I'd say fields make group fighting more fun, as more tactic is involved, and is the best way to combat dexxers. Paralyze is now useless seeing as how anyone with half a brain has a box, fields are really the only way to even remotely slow down a dexxer. Also I think in a town scenario field fighting would be pretty darn fun.

 

[Martell]

lol?

There are thousands of non-faction people? In all of UO there may be...30 across all shards?

GL is pretty much all non faction and atlantic has been witnessing a drop in faction action. That's the two populated shards right there.

 

[Martell]

Even rather than removing guardzones is it to much to ask for a single small facet or town that has no GZ so people can effectively fight in. I think a lot of people are sick of the yew gate setting and Bucs Den has all the server lines going through it. I really think that if a town like Brit was made, with multi level buildings, a castle, roofs and walls that can be teleported to, and bridges, without guardzones this would be a great pvp landscape that lots of people would enjoy. At the least it's worth testing.
If the devs could put in the effort to make that absurd "shard of the dead" with the glass swords I'm sure they could throw out some new pvp landscapes to test out.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

.

No reason to take into account the thousands of other non-faction people that have been living in Fel for years right?

lol?

There are thousands of non-faction people? In all of UO there may be...30 across all shards?

I usually respect your opinion but in this case you appear to be completely lacking in pvp/felucca knowledge in general

 

[icm420]

I find it extremely sad that fighting with fields has been so common for so long now that people just dont stop to think about how gimp it really is. Fields are a crutch for lousy Mages and do nothing but promote ganking.

Nothing in this game makes more sense then turning the system back on to flag fielders yet it just doesnt happen due to the FACT that the Dev's are scared of the outcry it would generate.
Every gimp Mage in the game would threaten to quit.

*shakes head*

I find fields help to control the 6 guys I am fighting solo so yah I use them, if I had even or close to even numbers I usually don't field much. I also play alchemist mage and that tends to be better in fields. I understand what you are saying I def crutch on them but what should i do against 6-8 guys when it's me and mayb one or two others? I have yet to figure that one out. I suppose I could roll over and die but thats not really my style, I like to drag it out and make it a long painful death.

 

[Shiznit Bo'Bourbon]

Remove guards from faction cities. Leave them in Occlo/Cove/whatever.

 

[Flutter]

.

No reason to take into account the thousands of other non-faction people that have been living in Fel for years right?

lol?

There are thousands of non-faction people? In all of UO there may be...30 across all shards?

I usually respect your opinion but in this case you appear to be completely lacking in pvp/felucca knowledge in general

There aren't "thousands" of people playing UO in Fel. Red, Blue, Orange or Grey. Period. *Most* of the ones who are PvPing are doing so on multiple shards. Most of those are in one or more factions depending on how many accounts they have.

 

[Slickjack]

No reason to take into account the thousands of other non-faction people that have been living in Fel for years right?

If you are talking INDIVIDUAL characters, then yes, MAYBE there are 1000 non-faction characters across all shards that live and play in Fel exclusively.

To say anything to the contrary would imply that you haven't walked in FEL on any shard at all.

Fel is a GHOSTLAND. You can go anywhere (other than generic pvp areas, Yew, spawns, etc.) and not see anyone for DAYS.

The only people in Fel, outside of PVP areas are script miners.

But since you can type out just like I can in this post, without anyone declaring either of us the authority on the issue, I guess we will have to live in our own separate realities of what is really going on.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I don't know. I genuinely had fun when the guard zones were off for the shadowlord event. It was a lot of fun faction fighting and not having to deal with people I consider griefers. Perhaps that is a little extreme but not any moreso than someone who says pvpers are griefing when they raid spawns.

I mostly agree, and I have tried several times to offer solutions for those pesky griefers in this thread alone. (Not to mention backing up other plausible idea's as I do not find the OP the best option. But it is, after all, just my opinion.)

It seems to me there are plenty of non faction cities (Including Magincia to the person who was trying to make this entire thread about her) for people to bank or buy in. There is supposed to be risk in Fel. It's supposed to be a dark and scary place where murderers and thieves thrive. Why not really make it so? To me, and many others, it is fun.

It is fun to play, I never suggested other wise and am not sure anyone else has, but what others have said (and I mostly/partly agree with) is that removing the guards does add for the ability for the other side of this equation to grief, shouldn't we look for an option that tries to prevent/stop both parties? I agree my ideas might not be the best, and only partially address the issue as a whole, but it is still more balanced than simply removing the guards. But again, just my opinion and anyone is free to agree or disagree it will not hurt my feelings.

 

[icm420]

Fel is a GHOSTLAND. You can go anywhere (other than generic pvp areas, Yew, spawns, etc.) and not see anyone for DAYS.

The only people in Fel, outside of PVP areas are script miners.

This may hold true on your main server, but Fel is very active on my main server, it's just most people are lazy and do not search or attempt to get a fight going. Also I feel I should put this in caps since no one seems to remember it.. JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE THEM DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARN'T THERE! Anyways, I am always in fel, never on a stealther and I get decent fights all over. I suppose having played the same server for an extended period of time I know where to find them at, but we would have daily battles in trinsic swamps for no reason other then to fight away from guard zones and obnoxious ganks. Find the house of a prominent guild leader, I almost guarentee you will get a good fight going. Find an IDOC in fel, you WILL get a fight. Check dungeons.. I know it sounds weird but you will be suprised how many people hold what you say to be fact.. I find people training or farming all over. Shame used to be very popular, I havn't really run it in awhile but I would get 2-4 kills a week in there. Lady Mel area.. most people do it on the fel side, and we all know it would be awesome to find a crimmy on one of those dead bodies. Perhaps you could consider this to be griefing/pking and sometimes yah it is, but sometimes it's not... and if you catch someone "important" you can really swat the hornets nest and get a fun battle going just about anywhere. Also I know many people who do not ever go to the "hot spots" to fight, but if you come into their area they will protect it. Role Players are like this more so then anyone else, and a lot of Role Players are pretty damn decent pvpers, and even better people (usually speaking). As I said it takes some time running around, and once you find the areas you can mark runes or know that is an area to scout when you feel like finding a fight.

I agree most pvp is at spawns or at yew gate, but don't assume that all of it is and don't assume Fel is empty just because you don't see them. It just takes some searching and since most people have little time to play and/or are lazy they don't ever look. I am not singling you out, I just find this type of view to be very common and it's usually wrong..certain server's this may hold true (LA) but I play chessy which is a medium population server and I find people all over fel.

 

[aarons6]

why dont you just make it so gaurds ignore faction members? (not being called, being called on)
there problem solved.. fel keeps its guard zones.. faction members can heal and res their own..

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Ding Ding Ding someone gets it!

That's exactly it, if all the Hardcore PvPer's want Fel to be all about PvP then fine give it to them, remove anything that hints at PvM and put in place systems that were designed to automatically increase the difficulty of PvP like the Revenants did in Khaldun.

Why should there be carrots dangled everywhere to get the PvP community easy meat, that's not PvP that's wholesale slaughter and bad for the game as a whole. If they want PvP, challenging PvP and in their own little world that's all UO is about to them then fine, let them have it. But don't turn around and cry when the crutch that Spawns provide is offered as a trade off for what they claim to want.

As an alternative, why not demand fixes for what's broken now, and look to ways to get players interested in PvP, real PvP not this pansy 20 people raid a spawn being done by 3 trammies stuff. The PvP community is it's own worst enemy, they are vocal which isn't bad but how they handle things is in generally poorly thought out. No matter what the devs do to UO as it sits currently as far as changes in game, have effect beyond PvP or PvM. Changes effect both sides of the moongate and players who may or may not wish to engage in one play style or the other. Lack of consideration of how any proposal of change effects the whole is childish and counter productive, and a part of what's hurt UO in the past. Not just the PvP guru's but all the players making demands as a whole which the devs have enacted without balancing out the consequences.

I agree with this, which is why I try to think of all parties when I post or reply.

I must say though, being part of an already small community with in a small community (PvP in UO) the Vocal parties are actually with in an even smaller minority of the whole. (This applies to both PvP and PvM) When something is changed because of someone complaining about something, it is usually not the Majority of that party that is being addressed, but a smaller portion that the rest of us have to simply adapt to or quit. This thread for example, there is a Minority of people here, the PvP community if you would, but even with in that there is a much smaller portion with which agree with this idea on the whole, if we use that as a percentage of the over all community you start to get the picture of how threads like this affect people who do not want it and do not say anything against it. (through ignorance or just plain ignoring the issue)

I agree, something should be done to fix the problems with fighting in a city (of course we should be given incentive to fight in a city, but that is a different matter.) But I do not think removing guards is the solution we as a whole seek. (Of course when I say as a whole I mean the majority of the percentage of any party or all parties combined.)

 

[Slickjack]

I am not singling you out, I just find this type of view to be very common and it's usually wrong..certain server's this may hold true (LA) but I play chessy which is a medium population server and I find people all over fel.

I didn't take it personally

I have 7 accounts and I have played since December of 1998, and these accounts have 13 houses on them (2 GF accounts) and only 2 of the 13 are not in Fel. I LIVE in Fel.

My guild runs a player run town in Fel, in the Fens of the Dead swamp which has over 30 individually owned establishments.

We have one of the largest faction alliances on our shard and are active in sigil wars at the moment, so we are in "towns" everyday while this sigil war is going on (which hasn't happened in quite a while).

I personally LOVE to hunt script miners and roam Fel at all times and I am not even finding the miners like I used to...

Read my posts history, you'll see that I don't write things just to "win" or blabber: this was my honest viewpoint on what I have seen. And I am on Catskills which is also a medium sized shard.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

This may hold true on your main server.

What he said holds true for all servers. Even on chessy there are not 1000 players, not even 1000 player characters in fel. I am not going to argue if it is populated or not, but the essence of what he said is true, he pointed out on the whole of the game not as per shard. In totality there are very few people in fel spread across each shard, the person who said there was "1000s" was simply exaggerating, there is no way around that. But I could be reading his post wrong and you were right, but my post would still be true minus saying he meant it. >.>

why dont you just make it so gaurds ignore faction members? (not being called, being called on)
there problem solved.. fel keeps its guard zones.. faction members can heal and res their own..

This kinda does not solve the problem, It would solve the healing issue....but wouldn't it allow faction members to attack non-faction members? That would tip the scale in the other direction just as much as removing guards. If perhaps your statement was not "complete" then my apologies .

 

[aarons6]

What he said holds true for all servers. Even on chessy there are not 1000 players, not even 1000 player characters in fel. I am not going to argue if it is populated or not, but the essence of what he said is true, he pointed out on the whole of the game not as per shard. In totality there are very few people in fel spread across each shard, the person who said there was "1000s" was simply exaggerating, there is no way around that. But I could be reading his post wrong and you were right, but my post would still be true minus saying he meant it. >.>



This kinda does not solve the problem, It would solve the healing issue....but wouldn't it allow faction members to attack non-faction members? That would tip the scale in the other direction just as much as removing guards. If perhaps your statement was not "complete" then my apologies .

i meant faction on faction.. that means you can attack, heal, res or do anything you want to other faction members.. being ally or enemy without guard interference.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

i meant faction on faction.. that means you can attack, heal, res or do anything you want to other faction members.. being ally or enemy without guard interference.

ok, my apologies then. I thought maybe you meant something along those lines but was not entirely sure due to how you posted it. That is the basic essence of everything I have posted so far, and was ignored so I am not sure anyone is going to agree. heh.

 

[icm420]

I didn't take it personally

I have 7 accounts and I have played since December of 1998, and these accounts have 13 houses on them (2 GF accounts) and only 2 of the 13 are not in Fel. I LIVE in Fel.

My guild runs a player run town in Fel, in the Fens of the Dead swamp which has over 30 individually owned establishments.

We have one of the largest faction alliances on our shard and are active in sigil wars at the moment, so we are in "towns" everyday while this sigil war is going on (which hasn't happened in quite a while).

I personally LOVE to hunt script miners and roam Fel at all times and I am not even finding the miners like I used to...

Read my posts history, you'll see that I don't write things just to "win" or blabber: this was my honest viewpoint on what I have seen. And I am on Catskills which is also a medium sized shard.

I havn't played as long as most, I never heard of this game until about 5-6 years ago, and I have noticed a decline in fel populations..I've noticed a decline in the general population of UO.. but I guess missed the peak so I have less to go on. I suppose UO used to be a lot better then it is now, however I feel there is enough people still roaming about to make it fun. IF it's not fun for you guys that makes me sad, mostly because of what I missed. If Fel is a ghostland now.. ahh man it really makes me sad to think of what it used to be.

UO has horrid advertising, I really don't think they want more people to play. I heard of this game from someone I met in another game.. I never saw a UO advertisment, I never had any friends who played UO and told me about it, it's really a hard game to find out about. I used to play first person shooters more then anything else, ask a FPS player if they know about UO.. chances are they will say HUH?! WTF is UO? If you mention WOW most people say yah I know about it, and tell you why it's good or bad. Anyway the honest truth of it is UO isn't updated enough to draw enough people, I am not much for graphics but most people are. The other big killer is the rampant cheating, UO doesn't enforce any anti-cheat/punk buster stuff and that really does get to a lot of people. Oh well I will still play UO because it has incredible pvp, but the pvm aspect of UO is terrible, even more so when compared to games like DDO. I won't even mentioned single player rpgs because they are usually even better then most MMORPGS as far as pvm content and interesting game mechanics.