Fel Should Be A No Guard Area

[Martell]

Don't deny my existence

So you camp random blues houses and rp places to try and get easy kills? If so get a life or better yet actually try and pvp for real.

 

[outcry]

Now I do understand the base of this argument.. But, I do use vendors in fel towns often. Especially faction vendors when those running them arnt beeing "prickly" but setting the taxes high. Often enough they reduce the prices below that of trammel vendors and for that I shop there. That for me at least means guard zone towns.

As far as gate fighting.. I know the main reasons the gate is used is for access by anyone,the housing in the area plus a reasonable proximity to the bank. Maybe swapping out bucs den rules with yew gate might do everything that is needed although I am sure there would be less players actively fighting there as a result.

Some players just wont PvP unless they have -That Kind of Advantage-

If it was truly a case of guard zones being lame we would simply see more actives at bucs den instead of yew gate.

So you want the reward with no risk............... why should you be allowed to use faction vendors when you are not in factions? You all want the benefits of factions with out having to risk anything at all...

As for bucs den have you ever tried to pvp there with the many server lines...

Time for us Reds, Faction people to stand up and demand our rights for a change...

 

[Mervyn]

You've gotta bear in mind that people in general don't know what they want, they all think they know what they want, but they don't, I think the devs have listened to the players too much and should take some of their own decisions, thats why the game is in the poor state of membership it is now.

Everyone cried for trammel and now, not only did you get trammel, fel players can't even get a lavaliere or a slither out of trammel.

Everyone as a whole are morons

 

[Woodsman]

Everyone cried for trammel and now, not only did you get trammel, fel players can't even get a lavaliere or a slither out of trammel.

I don't think people knew what they wanted other than an option to PvP.

Tram seemed like an easy hack to quickly deal with the situation rather than a long-term well thought out solution. Separating everybody geographically on the same shard was a mistake.

Most other MMOs saw UO's problems and just made their servers/shards PvP or PvE/PvM.

UO2 was going to have most areas be non-PvP with a few areas PvP, which would have been interesting. It was going to allow non-PvPers to do their thing, but was going to strongly encourage them to at least venture into PvP territory.

 

[pgib]

If making fel a no guard area can help those who like pvp i vote for it.

I do not agree that trammel was a bad choice because we have siege that is a no-trammel shard but it doesn't look to me like the most populated shard.

And that's the weird thing for me. Why players that dislike having trammel around don't simply go playing to siege? What's wrong with siege?

Because it always looks like these supposed pvpers don't really want pvp at all: they just want the harass the occasional player by butchering its char for no reason at all. I seriously doubt even other games tolerate this.

 

[Woodsman]

I do not agree that trammel was a bad choice because we have siege that is a no-trammel shard but it doesn't look to me like the most populated shard.

I think it could have been done better, but yeah, overall, UO's most popular time was well after Tram. After AOS even.

And that's the weird thing for me. Why players that dislike having trammel around don't simply go playing to siege? What's wrong with siege?

Siege intimidates a lot of people, plus a few of the rules are incredibly difficult to adjust to.

I've told plenty of people they should try Siege, but they act like I'm telling them the moon is made out of cheese.

 

[Lady Storm]

Contrary to your opinion of how the guard zones should be for pvp... normal people live and play in fel thank you and I for one would not like to have the small protection they serve gone. I am not alone I see from the other comments.

While it might be fine for you to have free reign over Fel, I see it as a way to skirt the way things are for others who would take advantage of it on non pvp players. Also that guard zone has been in uo from consept as we only had Fel so to remove it would take away some of the last vistages of the old uo ways.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

The point is:
1) More people would want to PVP if you COULD fight, x-heal, and lay fields in towns. Serp Docks is prime example of why fighting in towns would be more fun. Currently Serp Docs results in reds sitting in a grinder inside fire and blues sitting out on docks and then ends up in ganking the reds who pop out to try and kill those flagged to them or the reds ganking the one person flagged to them. Either way it ends up in a lame gankfest.
Also, with town fighting possible, fighting wouldn't just be limited to yew gate, which I think most consistent pvpers would consider boring as hell by this point.
2) GZ are somewhat bad because with them blues never learn how to pvp and hence don't partake in spawns. It doesn't take a genius to realize in about 10min that a sampire doesn't work for pvp (and neither do fencer-archers anymore).
3)Champ spawn artis are now worth more than scrolls blues seem real content just chaining ilsh spawns.
4)Lastly what has this game come to that blues wouldn't want to come to fel without guardzones!? Are you really that concerned about losing 9k? PVP is by far the best, skill oriented, unique aspect UO has going for it and sadly it's pretty dead. You wanna solely do quests and earn pixel prizes go play wow, they have far more quests and other redundant bs.

Just a small curious question, Have I not addressed all of your issues all the while with out removing the guard zones?

To address your first point, removing the guard zones would not help your serp docks situation at all, the blues would simply go somewhere else and you would have no one to fight at all. (while it is not a much worse situation than it is now, it is still what would happen)

Like I said, I could live with having no guard zones, and did you say it was ok for the gates to have the GZ for spectators? What if one wishes to spectate in a town? I agree we need to be able to heal our red allies (and only our allies, either an ally through faction affiliation, guild or an actual alliance.) But I am not sure allowing for an open ended possibility of ganking (which you admit happens now and thus would just increase from removing the guards in totality.)

Last question, you stated there are no grief PvPers, but what about those people who are just there to spectate and yet still get ganked. (even while standing in the guard zone, since a good timed hit will down them and they can't call guards.) These are the same people who would kill a crafter knowing its a crafter and then act like they just killed the best PvPer on that shard. Just saying I consider these to be grief PvPers as the people involved are not there to PvP at all (although they might have gone to spectate and pick up a few things by watching so they can learn, but would be turned off by the crowed who act the way I just described.)

 

[Martell]

Just a small curious question, Have I not addressed all of your issues all the while with out removing the guard zones?

To address your first point, removing the guard zones would not help your serp docks situation at all, the blues would simply go somewhere else and you would have no one to fight at all. (while it is not a much worse situation than it is now, it is still what would happen)

Like I said, I could live with having no guard zones, and did you say it was ok for the gates to have the GZ for spectators? What if one wishes to spectate in a town? I agree we need to be able to heal our red allies (and only our allies, either an ally through faction affiliation, guild or an actual alliance.) But I am not sure allowing for an open ended possibility of ganking (which you admit happens now and thus would just increase from removing the guards in totality.)

Last question, you stated there are no grief PvPers, but what about those people who are just there to spectate and yet still get ganked. (even while standing in the guard zone, since a good timed hit will down them and they can't call guards.) These are the same people who would kill a crafter knowing its a crafter and then act like they just killed the best PvPer on that shard. Just saying I consider these to be grief PvPers as the people involved are not there to PvP at all (although they might have gone to spectate and pick up a few things by watching so they can learn, but would be turned off by the crowed who act the way I just described.)

1)Pushing back the GZ at serps would reduce the stupid grinder fight that always takes place, that alone is a plus. I don't know who would stop coming to fel simply because they can't stand outside of fire and gank a red with 10 other people clogging the entrance... Actually I can the same type of people that like to sit at yew gate and just gank a random red with the rest of the blues. If you're pvp experience consists of just hopping on a massive gank then you're not pvping and your presence isn't missed.
2)Are you really complaining about people getting dumped on at the gate?! Boohoo that person loses 5-9k get over it. This only happens when Yew is completely dead, as there's no one to call guards. 2nd the best way to spectate is as a ghost anyway so who cares.
The pvp scenario shouldn't be catered towards spectators. I think with imbuing now any moron can put together a decent dexxer suit and any moron can figure out how to play a dexxer (you have 2 specials, a bandage button, and potions button) anyone can get by on that alone.

 

[Ludes]

It WAS fun chopping heads off though..

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

1)Pushing back the GZ at serps would reduce the stupid grinder fight that always takes place, that alone is a plus. I don't know who would stop coming to fel simply because they can't stand outside of fire and gank a red with 10 other people clogging the entrance... Actually I can the same type of people that like to sit at yew gate and just gank a random red with the rest of the blues. If you're pvp experience consists of just hopping on a massive gank then you're not pvping and your presence isn't missed.
2)Are you really complaining about people getting dumped on at the gate?! Boohoo that person loses 5-9k get over it. This only happens when Yew is completely dead, as there's no one to call guards. 2nd the best way to spectate is as a ghost anyway so who cares.
The pvp scenario shouldn't be catered towards spectators. I think with imbuing now any moron can put together a decent dexxer suit and any moron can figure out how to play a dexxer (you have 2 specials, a bandage button, and potions button) anyone can get by on that alone.

I am not really complaining, just pointing some things out. The people who are standing there waiting to gank the reds would be the ones who would no longer be there. That is just my observation of the situation anyway, maybe they would still try I can't speak for them.

I offered a reasonable way to interact with reds with guard zones, I assume the only argument left is that people can not attack any blue they want so long as the guard zones are up. (Thus not allowing for any griefing against blues and also allowing for ganking on singular reds, but a good group should be able to keep someone alive, otherwise they were going to die anyway. I also know this could be a problem, but I have little solution for it with out the already suggested method.) I do not fully agree with you about there being no grief PvPers, I will say there are not people who ONLY look for this type of thing, but I would venture to say that more than half of the current "PvP" crowd would in fact gank every blue they see in fel if there are 0 guard zones, I am not against removing them from a decent area around the entrance to fire perhaps, (since I see no reason for the blues I am talking about to even be there.) I am not even really against removing them at all (they serve me little purpose except to allow me to go afk on my only blue from time to time in Fel.)

 

[outcry]

Contrary to your opinion of how the guard zones should be for pvp... normal people live and play in fel thank you and I for one would not like to have the small protection they serve gone. I am not alone I see from the other comments.

While it might be fine for you to have free reign over Fel, I see it as a way to skirt the way things are for others who would take advantage of it on non pvp players. Also that guard zone has been in uo from consept as we only had Fel so to remove it would take away some of the last vistages of the old uo ways.

Again you want your cake and be able to eat it as well...

There are a total of 8, Trammel, Felucca , Iishenar, Malas, Tokuno ,Ter Mur, Luna , Umbra , What 7 area's of complete protection is not good enough for you? If thats how you want it then keep guard zone and let us reds be able to roam all 8 facets with again only guard zone for your protection...... You blues have gotten your way since Trammel came out... Time for us reds to step up and TAKE BACK ONE FACET FOR JUST US............ Your only safe in fel anyway if your in town........ so what your comment tells me is your the one player that goes to fel yew gate and spams GUARDS GUARDS GUARDS, or only stays in towns only reason then you need the town is to bank, so go skip your say back to one of the 7 other facets and let us play our style and not yours...........


GIVE THE POWER BACK TO REDS GIVE US NO GUARD ZONE IN FEL

 

[Yalp]

As part of an alliance that routinely spawns and pvp's against the resident pvp faction guild, we do use guard zones. We also use towns, moongates, yew, champ spawns, running field battles and we even wait outside the faction base the reds use as their safe haven.

Of course we don't spam the gen chat about how chicken they are and won't come out of their base, but we get entertained constantly by their crying like 10 year olds.

Want to remove guard zones in fel? Then make it fair and remove blockage of faction bases for non-faction characters.

---

 

[aarons6]

you can leave the guard zones for blues but in order to PVP in fel you should have to join factions.. guards should IGNORE faction fighting..

im so tired of PVPing on my faction char to just get murder counts because nobody else im fighting is in factions.. then they all want to duel you just to give you a count if you win.. its pathetic.

leave the guards, do away with murder counts if your on a faction char...

PVP isnt mudering..


this would balance out everything and give you a reason to join factions.. reg non faction chars would still get murder counts..

 

[Flutter]

you can leave the guard zones for blues but in order to PVP in fel you should have to join factions.. guards should IGNORE faction fighting..

im so tired of PVPing on my faction char to just get murder counts because nobody else im fighting is in factions.. then they all want to duel you just to give you a count if you win.. its pathetic.

leave the guards, do away with murder counts if your on a faction char...

PVP isnt mudering..


this would balance out everything and give you a reason to join factions.. reg non faction chars would still get murder counts..

I don't mind being red. I don't care if I get murder counts. To me the murder counts aren't the issue. The issue is that I cannot properly play all of my characters even if I stay in Fel.
Unfortunately you can't even cross heal someone who is in your own guild without getting guardzapped.

To the person complaining that non faction characters can't go into the faction base.... really? Join a faction if it's a problem.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Again you want your cake and be able to eat it as well...

There are a total of 8, Trammel, Felucca , Iishenar, Malas, Tokuno ,Ter Mur, Luna , Umbra , What 7 area's of complete protection is not good enough for you? If thats how you want it then keep guard zone and let us reds be able to roam all 8 facets with again only guard zone for your protection...... You blues have gotten your way since Trammel came out... Time for us reds to step up and TAKE BACK ONE FACET FOR JUST US............ Your only safe in fel anyway if your in town........ so what your comment tells me is your the one player that goes to fel yew gate and spams GUARDS GUARDS GUARDS, or only stays in towns only reason then you need the town is to bank, so go skip your say back to one of the 7 other facets and let us play our style and not yours...........


GIVE THE POWER BACK TO REDS GIVE US NO GUARD ZONE IN FEL

Uhm....first the person you are talking to plays on siege. No "trammel"

Second, you said malas 3 times.... There are 6 total facets, 4 of which are completely consensual pvp rules, 1 of which is a free for all and 1 of which has a "slight" mix (2 champs are in Ter mur....so I couldn't just ignore them.) And people who do not want to go to the bank in fel and get "wtfpwnd" by the newest "I am the best PvPer" should not be forced to go to "trammel". That is just my opinion about that, I would much rather be discussing possible ways to address the issues people face when fighting in Cities rather than argue over who is right and wrong.

I just want to add an amendment to my previously proposed plan. If you are blue and flag against a Red any blue that helps you (heal, cure, w/e) is also freely attackable by that red. (Partially helps with ganking situations.)

 

[weins201]

Fel is fine its a fighting style that's is broken

Who besides myself thinks that all of Fel should be a no guard zone area?


Reasons why..

1) Faction people then can heal each other in any town if red
2) Blues have , 4 other facets to go to be safe
3) Would cut down the number of blues who come to help factions and attempt to guard whack us when fighting



Just a few of my reasons I do have more but them are the main points

I had to read the WHOLE thing before i finally get your point, you are a Faction Red, so I fully agree that fellow factioners, freinded or allied guilds should have NO problem healing you without the risk of getting guard whacked. This has been an ISSUE forever and yes should be fixed but there are ALOT of parallel ones that should also be fixed with flaggin. Examples are RPD, Bards, Pets, Poisoning, on and on)

Blues have 4 facets, hum you don't want other playres in fel but those who are PvP in Factions? Sorry but that is a very poorly thought out idea.

This would No impact on support chars for factioners, sorry but again ending GZ in fel would deter their supporters.

Later you attack the Faction items and being able to purchase them - you have to be in factions and get points to aquire / use them. Yes it is somthing that should not be usable outside of fel but alas it broken.

Your whole premisis is about guard whacking of red supported in guard zones - I am sorry but this goes back to IF YOU ARE A MURDERER YOU CAN/SHOULD/WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES. AS WELL AS THOSE WHO HELP YOU.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

1) More people would want to PVP if you COULD

There may or may not be plenty of good arguments to remove the guard zones in Fel. (Or to make guard zones an option of the Faction that controls the town, for Faction towns. Or anything like that.)

But this isn't one of them.

People do not want to PvP; repeated incentives to get them to have not worked.

I am not arguing the actual issue one way or the other. But this argument? No. There's plenty of incentives to PvP, or at least to come to Fel and risk it; but people do not want to.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

IUO2 was going to have most areas be non-PvP with a few areas PvP, which would have been interesting. It was going to allow non-PvPers to do their thing, but was going to strongly encourage them to at least venture into PvP territory.

We have that in UO. We don't need UO2 for that.

-Galen's player

 

[aarons6]

I don't mind being red. I don't care if I get murder counts. To me the murder counts aren't the issue. The issue is that I cannot properly play all of my characters even if I stay in Fel.
Unfortunately you can't even cross heal someone who is in your own guild without getting guardzapped.

To the person complaining that non faction characters can't go into the faction base.... really? Join a faction if it's a problem.

i mind cause i dont JUST pvp.. i do other things.. being red effects my game play in a negative way..

they should just make it so if you join factions you are no longer considered a murder, you are a pvper.

this would let you be ignored by guards, so you can res and heal others and if you kill someone you wont get murder counts..

 

[Martell]

i mind cause i dont JUST pvp.. i do other things.. being red effects my game play in a negative way..

they should just make it so if you join factions you are no longer considered a murder, you are a pvper.

this would let you be ignored by guards, so you can res and heal others and if you kill someone you wont get murder counts..

dude 1) make another char if you have such a problem with being red, 2) just don't kill blues, 3) buy pardons, that's what theyre for. Honestly crying about being red is just plain stupid, no one makes you red you get there on your own and it's so ****ing easy to become non red.

 

[Martell]

Uhm....first the person you are talking to plays on siege. No "trammel"

Second, you said malas 3 times.... There are 6 total facets, 4 of which are completely consensual pvp rules, 1 of which is a free for all and 1 of which has a "slight" mix (2 champs are in Ter mur....so I couldn't just ignore them.) And people who do not want to go to the bank in fel and get "wtfpwnd" by the newest "I am the best PvPer" should not be forced to go to "trammel". That is just my opinion about that, I would much rather be discussing possible ways to address the issues people face when fighting in Cities rather than argue over who is right and wrong.

I just want to add an amendment to my previously proposed plan. If you are blue and flag against a Red any blue that helps you (heal, cure, w/e) is also freely attackable by that red. (Partially helps with ganking situations.)

Great he's one of the 3 people that play siege, therefore he automatically knows about pvping (aka. hiding in the gate with 2 nightmares, cuz that's what siege pvp consists of). Also you place to much importance on people not having to suffer being taunted and **** talked over stupid stuff like being res killed and killed at the bank. Does it really bother you that much that people say how uber they are after getting a simple kill? Calm down nerd rager. Dying and talking **** are a common part of the game get over it.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Great he's one of the 3 people that play siege, therefore he automatically knows about pvping (aka. hiding in the gate with 2 nightmares, cuz that's what siege pvp consists of). Also you place to much importance on people not having to suffer being taunted and **** talked over stupid stuff like being res killed and killed at the bank. Does it really bother you that much that people say how uber they are after getting a simple kill? Calm down nerd rager. Dying and talking **** are a common part of the game get over it.

You are quite obviously not worth my time. I solved all your problems with out having to take it out on anyone one else in the game. Dying is a part of the game, if I never died it would be quitting time. I also said nothing about people trash talking, but you brought it up awfully fast, wonder why that is.

You sit back and complain about people being able to gank. make a statement about how if you gank you are not PvPing and your presence will not be missed, but when I bring up not letting people gank easily you go on the offensive? Not only do you go on the offensive, but you take a stance that has nothing to do with what I posted in any of my posts. And them playing on siege was only part of one of my points, which you failed to get, there is no trammel, and your number of facets is not even close to accurate.

So I have two piece of advice for you. Think about what you are posting/ Proposing. And secondly, reading comprehension will help you get through life a little easier.

 

[aarons6]

dude 1) make another char if you have such a problem with being red, 2) just don't kill blues, 3) buy pardons, that's what theyre for. Honestly crying about being red is just plain stupid, no one makes you red you get there on your own and it's so ****ing easy to become non red.

it is?

so dont kill blues.. just stand there and maybe go after the 1 orange that is there and when you kill him you gotta wait 20 min for him to come back..

buy pardons? why should i pay upwards of 4 to 10m every single day i want to pvp cause everyone i kill gives me a count?

since nobody does anything anymore with factions except use the easy to get arties for their pvm chars.. lets redo them into something more pvp friendly?
remove guards, counts and stat.

 

[Yalp]

The simplest solution to everything.. if you don't care for the guard zone rules in fel.. don't pvp there. There are FAR FAR FAR more places in fel that are not guard zones.

You can choose to do whatever you want outside of the guard zone. You can faction, or not, faction w/faction arties or not, be red, blue, green, oj, yellow, or purple.. who cares?

And the best part? Everyone else can make their own choices too!

 

[Martell]

it is?

so dont kill blues.. just stand there and maybe go after the 1 orange that is there and when you kill him you gotta wait 20 min for him to come back..

buy pardons? why should i pay upwards of 4 to 10m every single day i want to pvp cause everyone i kill gives me a count?

since nobody does anything anymore with factions except use the easy to get arties for their pvm chars.. lets redo them into something more pvp friendly?
remove guards, counts and stat.

If you wanna pvp don't cry about being red... pretty simple.

 

[Martell]

You are quite obviously not worth my time. I solved all your problems with out having to take it out on anyone one else in the game. Dying is a part of the game, if I never died it would be quitting time. I also said nothing about people trash talking, but you brought it up awfully fast, wonder why that is.

You sit back and complain about people being able to gank. make a statement about how if you gank you are not PvPing and your presence will not be missed, but when I bring up not letting people gank easily you go on the offensive? Not only do you go on the offensive, but you take a stance that has nothing to do with what I posted in any of my posts. And them playing on siege was only part of one of my points, which you failed to get, there is no trammel, and your number of facets is not even close to accurate.

So I have two piece of advice for you. Think about what you are posting/ Proposing. And secondly, reading comprehension will help you get through life a little easier.

You made a point in everyone of your posts about people getting easy kills and talking trash as a major deterrent for who don't pvp. I'm simply saying noob killing and trash talking aren't, or at least shouldn't be a factor in pvp, simply because it happens... get over it if you care about it.

The comment about ganking was only in relation to Serp Docks/Fire entrance where because of the GZ location it's an inevitable grinder fight. Pushing back the GZ to inside Serp docks would solve this because it would give some small amount of room for open field fighting.

Lastly bringing up siege is irrelevant in this post because no one plays. Who cares if the rules are different there the shard is dead not because of the pvp set up but because of the original skill gain caps. No one wanted to make a char there because it took months and everyone already had chars set up on real populated shards.

 

[Martell]

The last couple of posts have been irrelevent to the original topic. The point I'm trying to make is that very simple changes, such as removing/altering GZ in some locations, or setting up a small facet or town without GZ would definitely increase current pvpers enjoyment and interest in the game and I would hope spark others interests to come and give it a try and experience uo in its original wild west state.
I mean hell they could even sell a booster pack for it and make some money. I'm still playing with samurai expansion just because none of the previous expansions have added anything except tram content, new gimp pixel items, and gimp templates, namely mystic. It's sad that the devs put so little effort into pvp seeing as it's the one versatile and unique thing uo has going for it.

 

[kelmo]

You have a point. There are several irrelevant posts in this thread.

The Dev's have put effort into PvP. Start here.

I am still not convinced that completely doing away with guard zones is a good idea. Not everyone in Fel, or even Siege is there to fight.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

You made a point in everyone of your posts about people getting easy kills and talking trash as a major deterrent for who don't pvp. I'm simply saying noob killing and trash talking aren't, or at least shouldn't be a factor in pvp, simply because it happens... get over it if you care about it.

The comment about ganking was only in relation to Serp Docks/Fire entrance where because of the GZ location it's an inevitable grinder fight. Pushing back the GZ to inside Serp docks would solve this because it would give some small amount of room for open field fighting.

What? Quote me saying anything about trash talking, I can wait.

I already said it is fine to move the guards a bit around fire, so no argument there, I offered solutions for all guard zones as well, but instead you wish to make an attempt to attack my character. I didn't talk about the deterrent to PvPing, I said people should not be subjected to always being attacked if they are not involved in the fight. My argument is against the complete removal of the guard zones from fel, although my argument has nothing to do with what you proposed as that is fine with me.

I am sorry if you feel that I should not consider other people when I play this game, or when I think of ideas to help the situations players complain about. But if you think inconveniencing others just to benefit yourself is fine, then go on thinking that way and ignore my ideas for fixing the things that are complained about.

I also thought about it more, and think any blue engaged in a fight should be freely attackable by all allies of the flagged party. (this one might get some resistance but hey, if you want to join in on the PvP then you get the full experience, specially since it is much easier for blues to jump reds in the guard zone than it would be for reds to jump blues.)

 

[Korik Bloodguard]

I agree with you, OP. Anyone who doesn't want to participate in non-consensual PvP have several facets which they can flee to.

 

[Violence]

"IF YOU ARE A MURDERER YOU CAN/SHOULD/WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES. AS WELL AS THOSE WHO HELP YOU."

What a load of BS. Red/Blue and the rest of the Flags shouldn't even exist in Fel. Just like Guard Zones. In Fel..? All goes. Anything at all. That's how it should be. Back in Tram Blues can't be touched so just allow Faction and Guild Wars. That way the "Red" issues are taken care of, Tram has its own Switches for PVP blocking Faction Items exploitation.. And Guilds can have their "Fair Duels" and such.

Why is that so hard?

And in all honesty, if you think I should be punished for being RED, I think you should be punished for entering PVP areas and TURNING ME Red for doing something that was meant to be done in those areas... And then epxloiting Guards and killing those who help me have it a bit more fair against that.

 

[outcry]

Re: Fel is fine its a fighting style that's is broken

- I am sorry but this goes back to IF YOU ARE A MURDERER YOU CAN/SHOULD/WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES. AS WELL AS THOSE WHO HELP YOU.

Does not matter if your faction or non faction for Fel , red or blue I play both get rid of guard zones.. our consequence on our red players is cannot leave Fel......... again you trams want it all...........

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

And in all honesty, if you think I should be punished for being RED, I think you should be punished for entering PVP areas and TURNING ME Red for doing something that was meant to be done in those areas... And then epxloiting Guards and killing those who help me have it a bit more fair against that.

I think there should be a penalty for being red....I also agree with the rest of your post as well. It is hard to really apply my ideology about being red considering the way the game works, in all honestly I understand sometimes you have to go red from killing people are are actually "participating" I.E. healing someone who is attacking you. But then going red just to do as such should carry some kind of burden. It is fine to go around and just kill everyone you see, but the game did originally have penalties for sush things and "not going to tram" was not it. But again, hard to distinguish between the two, I have been red plenty of times because I just had to be. But I still think we should be able to heal our red players with out getting guard killed.

 

[Lady Storm]

Re: Fel is fine its a fighting style that's is broken

- I am sorry but this goes back to IF YOU ARE A MURDERER YOU CAN/SHOULD/WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES. AS WELL AS THOSE WHO HELP YOU.

Does not matter if your faction or non faction for Fel , red or blue I play both get rid of guard zones.. our consequence on our red players is cannot leave Fel......... again you trams want it all...........

Your not getting the point. This IS how Fel was and should remain from Beta Days. It's not a "NEW" thing. So get over it and go play. This has been in place from the day UO went public, to change it now would change one of the last vestages of the original UO. It is NOT a case of Trams want it all, this is how the last almost 14 years of UO in Fel have been. It seems You and those who opt for this want the "special" treatment not Trammel players so dont go down that road. Non PVP players live in Fel, they deserve the consideration you so sorely lack giving in this request. I am not against PVP, Factions fighting, but the lands of Fel are not your private fighting grounds.

 

[pgib]

About the "Original UO" let me say that they killed it, buried and they spit on its grave two times per patch. We have to deal with Sampire Online (if you are a pvmer) or - from what i hear in general chat, i'm no expert on the subject - Speeders Online, for pvp.

That said, i think that the idea of removing guard areas from felucca has a fictional value: the land is lost, there is no more government (ok, there are no traces of in game leadership in trammel too but we handle one facet per time), the law is no more enforced and so on. Throwing in some good old siege by monsters to the main towns would also be funny to see (and maybe if the hordes are defeated they could restore order in towns).

But it don't really know why we even talk about improvements here. I mean, they cleary listen to someone else 'cause i see many good ideas presented in uohall to shake the game a bit and we get patches that go nowere near the shadow of those proposals.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

I vote that all faction towns are non-guard zone, along with T2A entrances. Keep guard zones up everywhere else they currently are.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

About the "Original UO" let me say that they killed it, buried and they spit on its grave two times per patch. We have to deal with Sampire Online (if you are a pvmer) or - from what i hear in general chat, i'm no expert on the subject - Speeders Online, for pvp.

That said, i think that the idea of removing guard areas from felucca has a fictional value: the land is lost, there is no more government (ok, there are no traces of in game leadership in trammel too but we handle one facet per time), the law is no more enforced and so on. Throwing in some good old siege by monsters to the main towns would also be funny to see (and maybe if the hordes are defeated they could restore order in towns).

But it don't really know why we even talk about improvements here. I mean, they cleary listen to someone else 'cause i see many good ideas presented in uohall to shake the game a bit and we get patches that go nowere near the shadow of those proposals.

Technically factions are the government.....It is just poorly used but from a fictional stand point they are the "governing body fighting for control"

 

[Viper09]

Technically factions are the government.....

In that sense factions should control guard zones in the cities. Which would be an awesome idea and a damn good reason to fight for cities.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

In that sense factions should control guard zones in the cities. Which would be an awesome idea and a damn good reason to fight for cities.

I am down with this. Lord I have idea's abound for how Factions could exert their control, but they really don't matter since no one is listening to them. (aside from you fine people on Stratics, but I meant no one who could make them happen lol.)

 

[Violence]

Fel is now contested territory. The strongest survive, there is now Law hence Flags should not apply, the moment you join Factions. Others who don't but still want to visit Fel should be warned(They are in fact). Factions SHOULD hunt and kill any person who goes in contested areas but has picked no Side. They pose a threat, whether they are trying to get Scrolls or stock up on ingredients and such, which Factions would reasonably view as their own to take.

It does not matter how things were. That's gone. Too bad, or for the better, I can't tell. But as things are, Flags have no place in Fel if you're fighting a War and Factions should be the dominant System. Factions should not be this limited, canned and contained Meta-Game they are ATM.

Yes, all 4 Factions DO WANT to turn Fel in their own Lands. That's the point, Lady Storm. Which is what YOU are not getting! :loser:

 

[Triberius]

Who besides myself thinks that all of Fel should be a no guard zone area?


Reasons why..

1) Faction people then can heal each other in any town if red
2) Blues have , 4 other facets to go to be safe
3) Would cut down the number of blues who come to help factions and attempt to guard whack us when fighting



Just a few of my reasons I do have more but them are the main points

Here's an idea for you if you want PvP to be "Fair".

1. Remove all spawn in Felucca, no overland, no dungeon, no champs etc everything moves to Tram.
2. When a player is slained randomly somewhere on the same subserver as the slain player a revenant spawns. This revenant will only disperse when it's slayer is vanquished.
3. Revenants are no effected by fields, poison, dispel, or exorcism effects. They have the notoriety they held on death, and will automatically be in opposition to their slayers guild, and notoriety (ie they are at war with it and will attack them on sight and Blue Revs will attack Red players on sight and Red Revs will attack Blue Players on Sight).
4. Revenants have faction allegiance same as the living player had when killed
5. These revenants will not act like the summoned Necro Revenants as they can't follow cross facet, or teleport around.
6. Revenants will attack their slayer on sight and are not subject to Guards.
7. All faction players will no longer flag for actions preformed to members of their own faction.
8. Interfaction or interguild death will not dispel or create a revenant (a TB kills a TB no Rev, people from the same guild killing each other same deal)

What this does is make it if you want Fel to be about PvP then guess what It's all about PvP now, PvM based systems are completely removed. When there are groups that are extremely well organized, and rarely suffer losses the difficulty increasingly raises as the more they kill the more revenants there will be helping balance the PvP field. The more you kill the harder it gets, and those that aren't engaged in PvP still get the towns to visit but Factions aren't effected by bystanders since you can't flag inside the same faction..

Seriously, if you want Fel to be all about PvP then at the least remove all spawns, and other PvM related systems like Champs, Peerless etc. Only then would I be cool with a removal of guards.

 

[OrianaGRI]

The original poster is a noto-PK on Catskills and a member of a PvP - PK alliance.

Giving special motivation to her suggestion that there be no guard zones in Felucca and calling this to the attention of the community and the devs at this particular time is the fact that a group of Catskillians to which she and her allies have been opposed for a long time have recently created an independent city in New Magincia, Felucca which is ... inside a guard zone.

 

[Flutter]

In that sense factions should control guard zones in the cities. Which would be an awesome idea and a damn good reason to fight for cities.

I am down with this. Lord I have idea's abound for how Factions could exert their control, but they really don't matter since no one is listening to them. (aside from you fine people on Stratics, but I meant no one who could make them happen lol.)[/QUOTE]

This isn't a bad idea and I think warrants more discussion.

 

[Luvmylace]

The original poster is a noto-PK on Catskills and a member of a PvP - PK alliance.

Giving special motivation to her suggestion that there be no guard zones in Felucca and calling this to the attention of the community and the devs at this particular time is the fact that a group of Catskillians to which she and her allies have been opposed for a long time have recently created an independent city in New Magincia, Felucca which is ... inside a guard zone.

Everything in UO is not about You . I also live on Magincia( Fel ) and I also think, that since so many players wanted Trammel and got their wish ,that Felucca should be entirely the Dark Side .More to the heart of the argument ,is the chance to motivate more PVP and player warfare on Catskills. It would inevitably bring more people to Felucca who enjoy the aspect of person versus thinking opponent. The challenges are numerous with live opponents . The science of factions ,fighting, and surviving battles depends on an assortment of features, which must be constantly updated and improved. It makes working as a team the basic thread that keeps you alive. Safe zones should only be at Banks . If you choose factions or if you are blue , you should not have the gate safety of the other Facets . In reply to your post ,I ask you, why did you choose Felucca Magencia for this community? The "community" is always empty ,except for me. It is and has been nothing but a Ghost town ,a "token" city. You spend most of your time in Trammel .There are but 3 houses of the 18 or so you own as a guild "open to public" My 5 plots are open and are set up to be sources of saleable commodities and soon will sport vendors. As the old cliche goes,"if you cannot take the heat ,stay out of the kitchen".

 

[They Call Me Al]

.......Safe zones should only be at Banks....... As the old cliche goes,"if you cannot take the heat ,stay out of the kitchen".

^THIS^

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

One thing on the actual merits of the issue I might point out is how we have been told for years now that "Fel isn't just the PvP facet" or "Fel isn't just PK land."

Whether or not I think it is this way now is less relevant than the obvious fact that it will surely be this if such a change is implemented.

To the degree that there are any more-casual players left in Felucca, just "regular guys" who like to hunt and eek out a living and don't mind the risk of being PKed because they are exchanging it for a comparatively empty map, they will all leave simply because they will now face a stark choice: Get hunted down like an unwanted animal, or bank in Trammel.

And if they wanted to do the latter, they would be there already.

-Galen's player

 

[aarons6]

Here's an idea for you if you want PvP to be "Fair".

1. Remove all spawn in Felucca, no overland, no dungeon, no champs etc everything moves to Tram.
2. When a player is slained randomly somewhere on the same subserver as the slain player a revenant spawns. This revenant will only disperse when it's slayer is vanquished.
3. Revenants are no effected by fields, poison, dispel, or exorcism effects. They have the notoriety they held on death, and will automatically be in opposition to their slayers guild, and notoriety (ie they are at war with it and will attack them on sight and Blue Revs will attack Red players on sight and Red Revs will attack Blue Players on Sight).
4. Revenants have faction allegiance same as the living player had when killed
5. These revenants will not act like the summoned Necro Revenants as they can't follow cross facet, or teleport around.
6. Revenants will attack their slayer on sight and are not subject to Guards.
7. All faction players will no longer flag for actions preformed to members of their own faction.
8. Interfaction or interguild death will not dispel or create a revenant (a TB kills a TB no Rev, people from the same guild killing each other same deal)

What this does is make it if you want Fel to be about PvP then guess what It's all about PvP now, PvM based systems are completely removed. When there are groups that are extremely well organized, and rarely suffer losses the difficulty increasingly raises as the more they kill the more revenants there will be helping balance the PvP field. The more you kill the harder it gets, and those that aren't engaged in PvP still get the towns to visit but Factions aren't effected by bystanders since you can't flag inside the same faction..

Seriously, if you want Fel to be all about PvP then at the least remove all spawns, and other PvM related systems like Champs, Peerless etc. Only then would I be cool with a removal of guards.

how would this make things better?? what you say doesnt even make sense.. what does having pvm monsters have ANYTHING to do with pvp?
it sounds like basically what you are saying if YOU have no reason to go to fel YOU dont care if there are guards?

all we are asking for is to remove guard zones or turn off criminal flags if your in factions..

you dont have to pvm in fel.. but you DO have to pvp in fel.

 

[Luvmylace]

.......Seriously, if you want Fel to be all about PvP then at the least remove all spawns, and other PvM related systems like Champs, Peerless etc. Only then would I be cool with a removal of guards.

Oh that is slick the whole point of spawns in Fel is to get better goodies .
reap better reward because YOU FACE THE GREATER the danger .
NICE TRY

 

[They Call Me Al]

Seriously, if you want Fel to be all about PvP then at the least remove all spawns, and other PvM related systems like Champs, Peerless etc. Only then would I be cool with a removal of guards.

[HUH?] Just one question about your "grand idea"........

When was the last time you saw a guard at a champ spawn, peerless, or anything pvm related??




Now a couple comments.......

The last I checked, ALL of the aforementioned pvm encounters can be encountered in Tram as well... Actually, there are more encounters available in Tram than there are in Fel...

Just because someone has a "murderer" character, that they pvp with, does not mean that they should be penalized and excluded from the pvm aspect from the game as well .... does it?

Now, I know what your reply will be... "Blues without guard zone will be penalized for wanting to go to Fel to get the rewards that are ONLY available on that facet"
Once again the only question I have is: When was the last time you saw a guard in one of these areas?





I am also continuously seeing the argument: "Non PVP players live in Fel" or "normal people live and play in Fel" Once again I must ask what I really think is a series of silly questions but, with what people are saying, I feel they need to be asked....
Do you really have guards protecting your house? Do the guards protect where your friends live? Do the guards also protect you while you are hunting? Are there guards in the middle of Malas out near GraveWater Lake that can protect my fisherman from Crystal Elementals? Should I move to tram where I will be constantly around guards? Will the guards save me from the WORST RES KILLER OF ALL: a paragon ancient wyrm???

Please someone help me clear up my confusion... [/end HUH?]