Feel Pity for our Dev Team

[Theo_GL]

Ok, I patched up the latest SA client and gave it a go.

After spending about 20 min on it and realizing I'd never feel confident to take on anything tougher than ratmen for it - I logged out of it feeling sorry for our dev team.

They remind me of the boy in Mercer Mayers book 'The Flying Machine'. He has grandiose plans to build a flying machine out of wood. He cobbles this thing together the best he can out of scraps and misc items and then tries to take it out of the garage/shed and the wings are too big and it falls to pieces as it hits the door.

I know you all put alot of work into the client and probably spent lots of time working on the zoom in, zoom out and other features but its just not intuitive, its hard to use and simple things just don't seem to be there.

Like re-organizing your backpack. You can't seem to resize the backpack to show filled and open spots. Ok, so if I want to move my rune books around, i need an empty grid location in the pack to use to move items around (you can't seem to just drag/drop to organize). Well, i have so much stuff you have to scroll down to find an open slot. Well you can't do that while dragging. Now what?

That was annoying to say the least.

Hot bars - I didn't see an option to 'lock' them and if you make a mistake clicking accidentally hold your mouse button it starts to try to move the icon. Basically the same problem you have in 2d for the past 8 + years with pet bars and how you can accidentally going into rename mode when you are trying to heal them. By accidentally double clicking instead of single clicking.


There are about a dozen other things that just boggle my mind. It is like the devs who wrote the game have never played it before and still don't. Or if they do - they do very little besides walking around luna.

Why is it so hard not to have a standard macro that is by DEFAULT put on every new char hotbar for bandage self? It took me a good 5 min to figgure out how to create that macro and now I have to do it for every dexer with healling?

I was hoping for much better usability with the new client and while I see the attempts - its just clumsy and awkward. I've picked up other games and been 10x more productive than the time I just spent in the SA client.

I feel bad for the dev team because they spent so much time and effort developing something that is poorly concieved and has no chance to 'fly'.

*shrugs*

If the 2d client ever goes away - I'd go back and play Bards Tale on the C64 emulator before I'd try to play this with the SA client.

 

[Gildar]

Well, i have so much stuff you have to scroll down to find an open slot. Well you can't do that while dragging.

Yes you can - use your mouse wheel.

Hot bars - I didn't see an option to 'lock' them and if you make a mistake clicking accidentally hold your mouse button it starts to try to move the icon.

And then you let go to drop the item back in the same slot and click again to activate it. Yes, a "lock" option would be nice, but hardly show-stopping.

Why is it so hard not to have a standard macro that is by DEFAULT put on every new char hotbar for bandage self?

Because not everybody would want a bandage self macro on a hotbar. I'd wager that well under half of the semi-regularly used characters in UO would get much benefit from a bandage self macro.

It took me a good 5 min to figgure out how to create that macro and now I have to do it for every dexer with healling?

Five minutes to learn is a very short period of time, and now that you know how to do that you should be able to make bandage-self macros for a new dexxer in seconds.


Remember that the client is still in Beta, there are dozens of playstyles, dozens of ways to think about and execute those playstyles, and a limited number of developers working on the client. Be constructive, explain your problems, and offer suggestions on how to fix those problems... for all of your complaints, not just two of them.

 

[Viper09]

Why is it so hard not to have a standard macro that is by DEFAULT put on every new char hotbar for bandage self? It took me a good 5 min to figgure out how to create that macro and now I have to do it for every dexer with healling?

Not everyone uses bandages, not everyone needs it as a macro. And 5 minutes? Is that suppose to be a long time to learn something new?

But yes it has problems, what you expect from a Beta? If it had no problems it wouldn't be called Beta, lol.

But submit your feedback. If or when it is finalized it should go smoother.

 

[pgcd]

The lack of ingame information is very very annoying, but it's not the client's fault, imho. Once you decide you wanna deal with it, the best thing to do is read a guide or something and go back to the client without trying to make it be a skinned 2D, and things suddenly become very very easy.
Every veteran player tries to make a bandage self macro, and gets angry over how stupidly complicated it is. A new player (or someone who reads a guide) drops the bandages in a hotbar and sets the target to "self" - something that would never occur to someone used to playing with UOA etc.

 

[Zayin666]

After spending about 20 min on it and realizing I'd never feel confident to take on anything tougher than ratmen

I have no problems engaging the hardest monsters in UO using the new client, I even find myself doing somewhat well in the few pvp encounters Ive had. Must admit that I never pvped much, so cant say if the new client is better or worse... I just thinkits useable.

you can't seem to just drag/drop to organize

Ill take the grid view and list view over the old bags anytime... maybe Iam spoiled after a few years of wow... I just hate stuff blocking eachother so you cant see stuff underneath.... and you can actually drop stuff onto other stuff, when you do this the thing you dropped will find the next open spot in your bag.

Ohh... btw.. did you notice that you can turn on legacy bags in the options menu?? (While there disable legacy targeting, so you have full advantage of the hotbars)

Hotbars lock

Yes.. that would be nice

Why is it so hard not to have a standard macro that is by DEFAULT

I only use bandages on 1 of my 7 chars and since it takes merely 2 secs to drag the bandies to your hotbar, rightclick, chose target = self.. voila! Done.

No need to make a macro for this!! (Remember... options-> turn off legacy targeting)

I feel bad for the dev team because they spent so much time and effort developing something that is poorly concieved and has no chance to 'fly'

I dont.. I think they did a great job creating the best client for UO so far.
Playing on a 24" monitor is really really giving you alot of space for your gumps in the old client... in the new client I have a huge playing area where I can zoom in and actually see an entire castle from the above! (Which also make the new client extremely usefull for house placement!

Give it anotehr go... dont leave it after 20 mins... give it a week.. really.. its good!!

Best regards

New client fanboi!

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

Ok, I patched up the latest SA client and gave it a go.

<snip>
Like re-organizing your backpack. You can't seem to resize the backpack to show filled and open spots. Ok, so if I want to move my rune books around, i need an empty grid location in the pack to use to move items around (you can't seem to just drag/drop to organize). Well, i have so much stuff you have to scroll down to find an open slot. Well you can't do that while dragging. Now what?
<snip>
If the 2d client ever goes away - I'd go back and play Bards Tale on the C64 emulator before I'd try to play this with the SA client.

I agree and submitted a bug report in the client. I basically submit a report on everything I see wrong with it. I think it is more constructive that way and gives the developers the information more direct.

-Lorax

 

[popps]

Why is it so hard not to have a standard macro that is by DEFAULT put on every new char hotbar for bandage self? It took me a good 5 min to figgure out how to create that macro and now I have to do it for every dexer with healling?

I was hoping for much better usability with the new client and while I see the attempts - its just clumsy and awkward. I've picked up other games and been 10x more productive than the time I just spent in the SA client.

I feel bad for the dev team because they spent so much time and effort developing something that is poorly concieved and has no chance to 'fly'.

I agree that a client should be as much easy as possible to be used for it to be really succesfull.

For macros, a good system I like is the "record" macro that UOAssist uses.

Just press the record button, record the macro and then stop when finished recording.
Then play for using it.

 

[Ivorythorn]

I find the Enhanced Client much better than the old client. At first I didn't like it, but I gave it a chance, and my gameplay is better. I find macros are easier to make, and can make one on the fly if necessary, doesn't take 5 minutes. I like the grid view and the list view, staying organised has become much easier. I used to use UOAM and UOA, but I find the EC atlas much better than either of those. You can do so much more with the Enhanced Client than you can with the Classic Client. Putting together a suit of armor is easier with the character sheet, i.e. it adds up all the mods for you, and not just resists.

Give it a chance. I can't imagine playing with the old client anymore. The Custom UIs people are making are great also.

 

[Miriandel]

In other words, Theo_GL, it's not really that you refuse to adapt, but more that you can not adapt.

And then insult the devs for your own incompetency.

Deja vu

 

[MissEcho]

Ok, I patched up the latest SA client and gave it a go.

After spending about 20 min on it and realizing I'd never feel confident to take on anything tougher than ratmen for it - I logged out of it feeling sorry for our dev team.

All I can say is I feel sorry for someone who can only spend 20 minutes trying to 'learn' something new and giving up after that minimal effort. I feel sorry for the dev's having to put up with trying to develop something for people who don't have the tenacity to bother even attempting to give the work they have put in a decent try.

As for:

Well, i have so much stuff you have to scroll down to find an open slot. Well you can't do that while dragging.

Yes you can. You didn't 'try' hard enough. Not only that but if you can think outside the square for a second, put a bag in your hotbar, open it, put in the stuff you want to reorganise and then scroll to your hearts content. But you know what, you dont need to actually 'reorganise your backpack. Those of us who play the client understand that once you have all your normal stuff you carry and need to 'access' regularly in your hotbars, you just dump it all in the very bottom of your grid and forget it, FOREVER.

Nothing better than never having to deal with 2d jumbled mess that the old backpacks were, especially on death. Oh and yes, for those who need the comfort a backpack that looks and operates like the old 'legacy' one may give you, you can have just that. I have a 'command' toggle so I can open either in grid view or legacy view. Only use 'legacy' for my vendors, as there would be very little point to using that style for actually playing. I can access all I need to access in my backpack with it closed completely for 99% of my playtime.

Hot bars - I didn't see an option to 'lock' them and if you make a mistake clicking accidentally hold your mouse button it starts to try to move the icon. Basically the same problem you have in 2d for the past 8 + years with pet bars and how you can accidentally going into rename mode when you are trying to heal them. By accidentally double clicking instead of single clicking.

At least the bars tend to stay where you put them by locking together. 2d is much better yes? Accidentally right click..........darn spell disappears, whoops shuffle around in my backpack to find that spellbook that is now hidden under the last bunch of loot that is now scattered over my stuff while I am busy dying as I right clicked my heal spell away, that is much better than just having to 'right' click where you want the accidentally picked up icon back.

You know you can drag the bar off your pet and NEVER have the rename problem don't you? Heal it, etc etc with no problem. Then again it is so easy to set a bandy macro for a pet that you shouldn't 'need' to use a pet bar. Just minimize the 'official' pet bar and use your dragged one. Can't do that in 2d. Oh and playing with someone else and need to heal their pet? Easy, just have a few standard petheal macros set and edit it on the fly with 'target = stored' to insta heal their pet on one click of the macro icon or assigned key. Not needed right now?, just collapse the bar til next time you need it. My tamer has a bar with 6 pets spots she uses for party playing. Tooooooooo hard! ......... not! I never rename anything.

Why is it so hard not to have a standard macro that is by DEFAULT put on every new char hotbar for bandage self? It took me a good 5 min to figure out how to create that macro and now I have to do it for every dexer with healling?

Probably because most players do not have any difficulty in creating a macro as you seem to of had. Really hard to drag a pile of aids to a hotbar and right clicking to set target 'self'. Then again you sound like someone who will try to play the EC client with the 'old' targeting systems as 'change' is something that a lot of people, like yourself, seem to have difficulty with. Never fear tho, you can set a macro using the 'old' system as well.

As for needing to create that macro on every character you need to bandy heal with, you may like to wonder how I can create a brand new mage on your shard and by just logging out and logging back in I can have 75 macros and my whole desktop set up and being good to go in less than 30 seconds, and with all hotkeys and other bindings set? It is called template copying and oops, 75 macros you say? sheesh with UOA I can have a starling 16 macros....... that is much better...... isn't it?

Anyways as you said, you gave the client a whole 20 minutes. Based on that I guess you are the expert on the Enhanced Client yes?

 

[Zayin666]

In other words, Theo_GL, it's not really that you refuse to adapt, but more that you can not adapt.

And then insult the devs for your own incompetency.

Deja vu

LOL - actually I think he spend more time writing this post than he did trying to use the new client!

 

[Zayin666]

Anyways as you said, you gave the client a whole 20 minutes. Based on that I guess you are the expert on the Enhanced Client yes?

And truly this is what it comes down to... if people just took the time to really try the new client, they would realise that so much is better/easier/more intuitive in the new client.

Its like comparing Windows 3.11 with Windows 7

 

[pgcd]

If you guys would stop bashing Theo for a second, you'll see that there're a couple other players who agree with him - the problem is not them, the problem is that the EC is hard to get to grips with for an old player (not so much for people used to other MMOs).
Instead of the legacy macros importer, welcome though it was, I think the devs' time would have been better spent trying to ease old players into a very very different playstyle and interface, with some kind of ingame tutorial for the new targeting and macro system.
It would take 5 minutes, and it would help Theo and most of the players who agree with him see that adapting to the EC is a lot easier and more effective than trying to make it adapt to a 2D user's wishes.

 

[Zayin666]

If you guys would stop bashing Theo for a second, you'll see that there're a couple other players who agree with him - the problem is not them, the problem is that the EC is hard to get to grips with for an old player (not so much for people used to other MMOs).
Instead of the legacy macros importer, welcome though it was, I think the devs' time would have been better spent trying to ease old players into a very very different playstyle and interface, with some kind of ingame tutorial for the new targeting and macro system.
It would take 5 minutes, and it would help Theo and most of the players who agree with him see that adapting to the EC is a lot easier and more effective than trying to make it adapt to a 2D user's wishes.

Ouch.. point taken! Good idea here!

 

[Sarsmi]

I think I agree with the spirit of what he is saying, there's a learning curve that most people don't want to navigate - the new client just isn't meshed well with the understanding of how the old client works, and that is going to hurt how many converts they get in the end.

Like when I tried SA it took me a really long time just to figure out how to try to talk. I hit just about every button on my keyboard in frustration that I couldn't just type and speak like I do in the 2D client. Multiply this by 100 things that the SA client has to do differently than the 2D client. I think there should have been a stronger push to get compatible commands and features passed from the old client to the new client.

BTW the reason I don't play the SA client is 4-fold:

1. I run tons of vendors and I could not put their wares out in SA. Putting stuff in a drag and drop backpack in SA is messy and stupid, things don't end up where you want them.

2. I can't get my screen the way I want it. My monitor resolution is 1680 x 1050, I play 2D uo in half of that screen on the left side, and keep a web browser up on the other half of the screen. SA will simply not do this, if I try to move the window to where it takes up half the screen it blanks out and resets its self.

3. Mining - I thought SA would be great for mining (and I'm sure it is) but it's not compatible with the way I mine, which is set to mine very specific spots that I have recalls to (they are high yield color versus iron and high yield overall). I dont want to area mine out the spots, I just want to mine that one particular spot. If I could get SA to do this I could at least use it for mining.

4. I dislike the character models. They are not attractive to me. Maybe the 2D art is 12 years old, but I like it. Just because something is old doesn't mean it's no longer good.

I think everything else that would bother me I could adjust to or it could be modded to suit me. But those four things are biggies.

 

[Bara]

LOL - actually I think he spend more time writing this post than he did trying to use the new client!

\

Hehe.

Seriously folks. Was UO intuitive and easy the first time you played it?

Hell no! You worked and got good at it!

Try to remember that it wasn't as easy and intuitive when you first started it. That perspective is very difficult to truly realize.

And lets not forget that multiple complex third party programs were invented because of ultima's problems and limitations!

 

[Taylor]

Once someone told me how to create hotbars, I found the enhanced client much less cumbersome to navigate than the classic client. I haven't used it much because I can't get used to the graphics, but as far as playability, I think the enhanced client was an improvement.

Macroing is especially easy: just drag the item, spell, skill, etc. onto a hotbar. Much better than scrolling through all of the mage spells, necro spells, weaving spells, and bushido spells every time you want to make a ninjitsu hotbar.

 

[the 4th man]

I WAS going to be my old self and bash your post......no.....just do us a favor. Those of us that disagree with you.

See your pic of some kids book??......show us and the devs what you can produce. Let's see your game, the graphics, the details.......in other words, if you can do better, then do so....otherwise, seriously, who are you to judge and even worse, display pity??

Agreed, it has some aspects of disfavor, but so does my cable company, or my cell company, insurance company........do I go on a forum and bash them??.....you get my drift kid, and if you're not a kid, stop acting like one.

 

[phantus]

If the 2d client ever goes away - I'd go back and play Bards Tale on the C64 emulator before I'd try to play this with the SA client.

I wouldn't bother with the emulator. Seems like too much work. Try here instead:
The Adventurer's Guild

 

[Gheed]

The EC is a god send for gardening. Grid mode allows me to care for all (100ish) plants in my main pack. Easier to buy 100 bowls in my main pack and UOA target item type to fill them in 2d. Then flip over to EC and plant/tend them. That's about the only use I have for it though.

Odd thing though, my last object macro conks out after 5 or so uses.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

I agree with ya Theo_GL.

Pay no attention to these flamers. EC does make it painful to play in so many ways its not worth the trouble it causes. I do fire it up here and there and see if I can break through that wall that must be there.Ya know that wall that all the EC lovers elude to. Ya know,when ya finally start to like the EC more than 2d.... apparently I`m nowhere near finding that wall. I can`t make myself enjoy my gametime in the EC. Its like a chore,its not fun. Doesn`t matter anyways,with the direction the EC is headed it will go the way of the Dodo,just like UO3D and KR.

I`ll still give it its fair shake after every update because in reality I WOULD really like to have a new client I could enjoy.

Until than all us 2d lovers will just hafta listen to all these rants about how much better the EC is.rolleyes:

As for the remarks about people refusing to adapt.... BS. If by adapting you mean "play it anyways,you`ll learn to love it" thats a hell of a way to promote peaple to use something.

To me,its like polishing a turd.......its still a turd.

 

[Theo_GL]

In other words, Theo_GL, it's not really that you refuse to adapt, but more that you can not adapt.

And then insult the devs for your own incompetency.

Deja vu

It seems this thread is full of people who play nothing but UO. If you go play some other games in the genre - their clients are easy to master in 20 min or less. D&D Online, Guild Wars (I'd kill for the GW map in UO with party/guild members on it), even Dungeon Siege from 10 years ago etc.

I KNOW how to play UO and find it a struggle to get things done with the new client. How do you think a new player would find the experience?

You need a client where somone can get around and be productive with basic skills immediately. Not one where you spend an hour trying to figgure out how to setup macros.

Remember Diablo and the belt? Drop potions on the belt and mash keys 1-4. How simple was that? Why doesn't uo have a similar concept where I can just drop a stack of bandages and mash F3 and it bandies me? Why do I need to go through a complex system to set that up?

And I guess I keep forgetting that this game is mages/tamers on-line. My default characters are dexers that fight hand to hand so I have alot of characters with bandies. Most new players start with Pally's as you can make money from the minute you start the char so a bandy action is useful. I don't think it has to be on every hot bar -but to go in the actions and not see a 'bandage self' option and have to string together 3 items to make one is silly. I mean they have boat navigation on the menu - add one for common actions like bandage, recall, sacred journey etc.

It is frustrating to me that little things are over-looked in the client that anyone who PLAYS the game would find annoying. Locking hotbars. Seriously - is that so hard to implement? Once you have your hotbar set how often do you want to change it?

One of the biggest jokes of UO 2D client is the spell icons you can drag and then cannot lock on your screen. So everyone screen looks like a dis-organized jumble of icons because many times you accidentally drag them instead of clicking them. It should be like the iPhone - you click it and it activates it. IF you want to move it - you click and hold for 3 seconds and then they shake and become moveable. Now that is a good interface. Not UO's interface that has not been improved upon in 10 years.

Today I was out gathering leather and was annoyed again at how when you cut a body - the message goes to the left of the screen. When you cut a corpse for the second time - the message goes right over your character about nothing to carve. WTF? Thats a non-standard position and gets completely in your way. Show the message in the same spot and away from where I'm clicking.


I could sit down and issue alot of bug requests but those are rarely fixed or even listened to so I have given up.

I mean in 2D we all got up in arms when the pet damage taken colors were red and pet damage dealt were red and asked time and time and time and time again for different colors and yet nothing has been done to this day.

Does a single dev even have a tamer? Do you not see the idiocy of this implementation? Apparently not.

These are SIMPLE 10 second fixes that our team cannot seem to find the time to address that AFFECT GAMEPLAY. Say red for pet damage dealt - green for pet damage taken. How hard is that to implement? Should I file bug report 1,534 on the topic again?

I'd rather call out the dev team here as it may get more attention. What is left of them anyways.....

 

[Gildar]

In other words, Theo_GL, it's not really that you refuse to adapt, but more that you can not adapt.

And then insult the devs for your own incompetency.

Deja vu

LOL - actually I think he spend more time writing this post than he did trying to use the new client!

Spitting at somebody when they give mostly unconstructive criticism is no way to get people to consider your side, and it hurts things for those of us trying to be constructive.

some kind of ingame tutorial for the new targeting and macro system

Last I checked (which was a while ago, so it might be disabled now), there is an in-game tutorial for the new targeting and macro system. It's very short, and could use some improvement, but it's there. Create a new, non-gargoyle character to see it.

 

[Tay M'real]

It seems this thread is full of people who play nothing but UO. If you go play some other games in the genre - their clients are easy to master in 20 min or less. D&D Online, Guild Wars (I'd kill for the GW map in UO with party/guild members on it), even Dungeon Siege from 10 years ago etc.

I KNOW how to play UO and find it a struggle to get things done with the new client. How do you think a new player would find the experience?

You need a client where somone can get around and be productive with basic skills immediately. Not one where you spend an hour trying to figgure out how to setup macros.

Remember Diablo and the belt? Drop potions on the belt and mash keys 1-4. How simple was that? Why doesn't uo have a similar concept where I can just drop a stack of bandages and mash F3 and it bandies me? Why do I need to go through a complex system to set that up?

And I guess I keep forgetting that this game is mages/tamers on-line. My default characters are dexers that fight hand to hand so I have alot of characters with bandies. Most new players start with Pally's as you can make money from the minute you start the char so a bandy action is useful. I don't think it has to be on every hot bar -but to go in the actions and not see a 'bandage self' option and have to string together 3 items to make one is silly. I mean they have boat navigation on the menu - add one for common actions like bandage, recall, sacred journey etc.

It is frustrating to me that little things are over-looked in the client that anyone who PLAYS the game would find annoying. Locking hotbars. Seriously - is that so hard to implement? Once you have your hotbar set how often do you want to change it?

One of the biggest jokes of UO 2D client is the spell icons you can drag and then cannot lock on your screen. So everyone screen looks like a dis-organized jumble of icons because many times you accidentally drag them instead of clicking them. It should be like the iPhone - you click it and it activates it. IF you want to move it - you click and hold for 3 seconds and then they shake and become moveable. Now that is a good interface. Not UO's interface that has not been improved upon in 10 years.

Today I was out gathering leather and was annoyed again at how when you cut a body - the message goes to the left of the screen. When you cut a corpse for the second time - the message goes right over your character about nothing to carve. WTF? Thats a non-standard position and gets completely in your way. Show the message in the same spot and away from where I'm clicking.


I could sit down and issue alot of bug requests but those are rarely fixed or even listened to so I have given up.

I mean in 2D we all got up in arms when the pet damage taken colors were red and pet damage dealt were red and asked time and time and time and time again for different colors and yet nothing has been done to this day.

Does a single dev even have a tamer? Do you not see the idiocy of this implementation? Apparently not.

These are SIMPLE 10 second fixes that our team cannot seem to find the time to address that AFFECT GAMEPLAY. Say red for pet damage dealt - green for pet damage taken. How hard is that to implement? Should I file bug report 1,534 on the topic again?

I'd rather call out the dev team here as it may get more attention. What is left of them anyways.....

I've played UO since 99. I've tried other games but didn't like them as much.

I find the EC much more intuitive and user-friendly than the classic client.

It is much quicker to find actions - associate them with hotbar and either click or assign keystroke.

Crafting is quicker as I can assign tools to my hotbar and single click them to activate my crafting menu.

Healing macro took 2 seconds to create. I can also create my own 'counters' similar to what UOA had but was limited based on it's recognized item. I can count anything that I have.

You just aren't patient enough to learn a knew interface. You did it with other games, which was easier cause you didn't have a prior version of the game to compare the client with....so you know legacy....now treat enhanced with the same new approach and you'd be fine.

You'll find you can do ALOT with the client.

A resizeable backpack would be nice (like resizeable radar)

 

[Zayin666]

Spitting at somebody when they give mostly unconstructive criticism is no way to get people to consider your side, and it hurts things for those of us trying to be constructive.

Last I checked (which was a while ago, so it might be disabled now), there is an in-game tutorial for the new targeting and macro system. It's very short, and could use some improvement, but it's there. Create a new, non-gargoyle character to see it.

Yeah sorry... its just.... it really seems like he only gave it 20 mins

 

[Zayin666]

Remember Diablo and the belt? Drop potions on the belt and mash keys 1-4. How simple was that? Why doesn't uo have a similar concept where I can just drop a stack of bandages and mash F3 and it bandies me? Why do I need to go through a complex system to set that up?

You can do just that... pull your bandies or helth pots to the predefined action bar, press the mash the key and voila!!

All you have to do is disable legacy targeting.... nothing more to it!

You dont have to set anything special up to chunk down potions all day long with your F3 key or whatever key you assign

 

[Prince Erik]

While I have little experience with the new SA client as of yet (too busy to give it a fair critique) my son's best friend just got the game and I've been helping him get started. He honestly refuses to use the old client, he said it makes no sense whatsoever. He actually really likes the SA client and uses it exclusively.

While one happy new player isn't a ringing endorsement I know he'd disagree with you entirely.

-P.E.

 

[Theo_GL]

I WAS going to be my old self and bash your post......no.....just do us a favor. Those of us that disagree with you.

See your pic of some kids book??......show us and the devs what you can produce. Let's see your game, the graphics, the details.......in other words, if you can do better, then do so....otherwise, seriously, who are you to judge and even worse, display pity??

Agreed, it has some aspects of disfavor, but so does my cable company, or my cell company, insurance company........do I go on a forum and bash them??.....you get my drift kid, and if you're not a kid, stop acting like one.

If I had a forum to bash my cable company I would. Is there any cable company that would allow that? lol

I'm not a kid and I hold a management position at a software company that makes enterprise software that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars for a copy. I would not take the pay cut to go work for a game company.

My issue with EA and the fact that they should just go out and BUY the interface or dev's from any number of games that is better than UO and have them build one/adapt one for UO at this point.

I know there is alot of work and assets for the movement graphics and houses and such and I'm fine with that part of the client (even the ugly floating character movement in EC that looks completely unrealistic). What I find problems with are the UI interaction components. The backpack, the paperdoll, the macros, chat etc. They cannot seem to get it right time and time again.

Eventually you have to ask yourself if you have the right people working on it.

Like the boy and his flying machine. He knows what he wants to build but he has no idea how to achieve it and the result is something with no hope of success.

The reason I don't play the other games is that I like the UO gameplay and I have alot of 'stuff' I don't want to give up in this game - but everytime I play the interface has issues that are frustrating. I believe the interface is the #1 hurdle to gettting new players in the game and having a game that would flourish. I have personally experienced friends that spent time in the game and then left citing the interface as the reason. If this game is going to survive - it needs to grow and attract new players and EC is a nice attempt but falls short with some of the same interface problems that 2D has.


Here are some comparisons of other games....

D&D Online

Guild Wars (how nice is that for health/mana? Both bar AND number - not to mention the map)

Dungeon Siege (oh look - rings big enough you can actually highlight them and pick them up easily)

Diablo (I'd kill for the health and mana balls in UO - So easy to see your characters status for those - I always loved that about Diablo. Keep in mind this is a 10 year old client here and still easier to use and get started)

LOTR (Same maker as D&D Online)

 

[Zayin666]

If I had a forum to bash my cable company I would. Is there any cable company that would allow that? lol

I'm not a kid and I hold a management position at a software company that makes enterprise software that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars for a copy. I would not take the pay cut to go work for a game company.

My issue with EA and the fact that they should just go out and BUY the interface or dev's from any number of games that is better than UO and have them build one/adapt one for UO at this point.

I know there is alot of work and assets for the movement graphics and houses and such and I'm fine with that part of the client (even the ugly floating character movement in EC that looks completely unrealistic). What I find problems with are the UI interaction components. The backpack, the paperdoll, the macros, chat etc. They cannot seem to get it right time and time again.

Eventually you have to ask yourself if you have the right people working on it.

Like the boy and his flying machine. He knows what he wants to build but he has no idea how to achieve it and the result is something with no hope of success.

The reason I don't play the other games is that I like the UO gameplay and I have alot of 'stuff' I don't want to give up in this game - but everytime I play the interface has issues that are frustrating. I believe the interface is the #1 hurdle to gettting new players in the game and having a game that would flourish. I have personally experienced friends that spent time in the game and then left citing the interface as the reason. If this game is going to survive - it needs to grow and attract new players and EC is a nice attempt but falls short with some of the same interface problems that 2D has.


Here are some comparisons of other games....

D&D Online


Guild Wars (how nice is that for health/mana? Both bar AND number - not to mention the map)

Dungeon Siege (oh look - rings big enough you can actually highlight them and pick them up easily)


Diablo (I'd kill for the health and mana balls in UO - So easy to see your characters status for those - I always loved that about Diablo. Keep in mind this is a 10 year old client here and still easier to use and get started)

LOTR (Same maker as D&D Online)

Hey I have played wow for 3 years... I know what you mean... I really do.. noone makes UIs that even compares with that of WoW..

But as you say yourself:

" it needs to grow and attract new players and EC is a nice attempt but falls short with some of the same interface problems that 2D has."

It is a step to attract and hold new players... sure it lacks the smoothness of other game clients I totally agree... BUT the current UI is still miles ahead of the CC UI.

My point is.. scrap the CC.. asap.. put all dev time into the new client.. steal some UI tweaks from other games and we have a winner to get UO going for many years still to come!

 

[Gildar]

My issue with EA and the fact that they should just go out and BUY the interface or dev's from any number of games that is better than UO and have them build one/adapt one for UO at this point.

Hiring more developers costs money. There is no game out there that I know of that offers the same level of options as UO, and UO devs would still need to strip apart any UI they got and make it fit in with the generic gump system that the Classic Client relies on (or do the opposite, and strip apart the back-end of the GG system on the server).

What I find problems with are the UI interaction components. The backpack, the paperdoll, the macros, chat etc. They cannot seem to get it right time and time again.

What is wrong with the components? Aside from a few things where it has been explained how to do what you wanted to do, and the lack of a hotbar lock which everybody admits would be a nice addition, you haven't explained yourself about those yet (unless I missed something).

Here are some comparisons of other games....

I do not see anything in any of the pictures you gave that looks better than the EC client to me. Could you explain what about these interfaces you would port over to the EC client interface?

(how nice is that for health/mana? Both bar AND number - not to mention the map)

There is an option to show numbers on the health/mana/stamina bar in the settings. Not everybody wants them to be there.
I don't see what you're trying to say about the map... it looks like a standard overhead radar to me, except that it appears to spin with the player view (UO's radar spins with the player view too... except the player view doesn't move )

(oh look - rings big enough you can actually highlight them and pick them up easily)

There are two sides to that coin.
On one hand, you make rings big enough to easily manipulate.
On the other hand, you make the rings a realistic size in comparison to everything else.

One works best when the items can't be seen in the world, the other works best when you see the item in the world more than your inventory and don't need to use it that often... unfortunately UO falls somewhere in between. You could have the rings larger in the inventory than in the world, but then there is a disconnect that can confuse people (and lots of people complained about that disconnect with KR, actually).
I personally prefer the rings being a realistic, consistent size.

Diablo (I'd kill for the health and mana balls in UO - So easy to see your characters status for those - I always loved that about Diablo. Keep in mind this is a 10 year old client here and still easier to use and get started)

Keep in mind you could do very, very few things in Diablo, and everybody plays it pretty much the same way. I'm fairly certain that most people would find the health and mana balls too large for UO. If you really want them though, and aren't opposed to using mods, I'll add that to my list of things to try and mod. I could see a few people wanting something like that, and it would be a good test for some similar functionality.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Theo, the list of EC bugs is long, and a comprehensive patch for these issues cannot be seen on the horizon. Therein lies our problem.

P.S.: UO will never be a game with graphics like WoW or other games. UO was built to be a 3rd person perspective game, and it always will (and should) be one. However, games like Titan Quest and Diablo 3 show us what can be done with 3rd person perspective games nowadays.

 

[Theo_GL]

I don't see what you're trying to say about the map... it looks like a standard overhead radar to me, except that it appears to spin with the player view (UO's radar spins with the player view too... except the player view doesn't move )

Ok, I guess I should explain about the GW map. It is hard to see from the picture but what it does that UO does not is it shows enemies on the map as well as party members (imagine how useful at a spawn). It also allows you to draw on the map and all your pary members can see it.

So you can draw arrows telling them where to go or plans of attack.

The map for EC is better than the CC but still could be improved.

If the crappy ping holds up to East Coast again today and I'm limited to non-combat play - maybe I'll play with the EC some more and make a list of all the easy improvements that could be made.


And what is better about those pictures? Nearly all of the Inventory is easier to use than UO's with the non-resizeable box and small icons. Nearly all of these have locked icons at the bottom that are part of the interface and not something you have to slide around on your screen that gets hosed as soon as you resize your screen. IE - its a fixed location on the screen no matter what the resolution.

What I cannot show is how other UI's make it easier to set these skills/things up vs UO's macro system.

If you can mod the mana/health balls like Diablo I'd love it. Its one game where you don't have to divert your eyes from the action to see the status of your mana/health. It is easily seen out of the corner of your eye. With UO I am continually looking back and forth at my player's bar to monitor my health status.

 

[Ivorythorn]

If you guys would stop bashing Theo for a second, you'll see that there're a couple other players who agree with him - the problem is not them, the problem is that the EC is hard to get to grips with for an old player (not so much for people used to other MMOs).
Instead of the legacy macros importer, welcome though it was, I think the devs' time would have been better spent trying to ease old players into a very very different playstyle and interface, with some kind of ingame tutorial for the new targeting and macro system.
It would take 5 minutes, and it would help Theo and most of the players who agree with him see that adapting to the EC is a lot easier and more effective than trying to make it adapt to a 2D user's wishes.

Sorry, I am old player and while it wasn't a quick learning experience, most of it was. The thing is I didn't give up after 20 minutes. I could see the potential, and I kept at it. I found the old clients macro system, for a lack of a better term "clunky". I find the EC great for mining, lumberjacking, etc...

There are two ways to view your pack! Grid and list, and if you don't like those then use the legacy containers view!

Oh and I'm sure they are going to keep the old client around for a while. So if you are going to be stubborn, then don't worry. You can enjoy your game play with the old client, and I can enjoy mine with what I consider to be a better client.

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

I believe the interface is the #1 hurdle to gettting new players in the game and having a game that would flourish.

I don't believe it is. I believe that UO would only draw large number of new people if the game were completely redone from top to bottom. EA should target those currently playing as well as those who have left over the course of the games history because of mismanagement and constant staff changes. I don't care how good your client is...if there are bugs in game that aren't fixed quickly and there are entire systems (new and old) that are left broken for an extended period of time you aren't going to bring any new players let alone keep them.

 

[slaveone]

TBH i agree with Theo. I think "most" people who play UO would agree that the SA client just like the KR client was a failure. Claiming the Client is still in beta is pretty much a complete joke at this point. If your still telling yourself that it's just an excuse not to wake up and smell the coffee. Sure the SA client is definately better than KR. It feels more like UO than KR did there is no doubt about it, but it still doesn't stack up to 2d IMO.

I know alot of the KR and now SA fans will argue its not a failure and to them maybe it isn't. The thing is what a small minority of uo players consider to not be a failure the majority do. That's just a fact people. If it wasn't the case 2d would already be gone! I saw the same people saying the same things about the Legacy Client when KR was out that they are saying about SA compared to 2d now. Either way the guys at EA tripped up hard and that probably had an effect on why we are now seeing people let go of the UO section of EA.

I doubt even if SA did decent in terms of sales numbers it probably did very little for getting people to switch clients. At this point if it were up to me i'd drop the new client and just focus on the legacy client and make it the best it can be. It's been under development for over 12 years and these new clients no matter how flashy can't ever compete with that. They should have stuck with UO2 and just had two games a more in depth RPG style like the current UO and a more action oriented UO2 that would have been similar in vein to WarCraft instead of creating that mess of a flop WarHammer.

The legacy UO client resembles the vision of the Ultima series creator and as of yet none of the 3 other clients have ever been able to do that well enough to be accepted by the bulk of UO's playerbase. I honestly think the first new client UO3d came the closest! At this point i've come to realize only a high resolution 2d would ever do and sadly that will almost certainly never happen. I'll stick with 2d it's not about spending time learning something new its about that something new just not being a close enough representation of that something old that i love for me and many others to be even remotely intersted in using. Unfortunatly i think UO will always be a two client game and if it ever did fall to one client i'm sure that in the end UO 2d would be the one left standing!

 

[Gildar]

Ok, I guess I should explain about the GW map. It is hard to see from the picture but what it does that UO does not is it shows enemies on the map as well as party members (imagine how useful at a spawn).

If it were all mobiles... it would get overwhelming very fast I think. Having more information on the map would be nice though, as long as you can filter it down to only what you want.

It also allows you to draw on the map and all your pary members can see it.

So you can draw arrows telling them where to go or plans of attack.

That would be really nice to have in UO. Even if it were just implemented as party-shared waypoints.

Nearly all of the Inventory is easier to use than UO's with the non-resizeable box and small icons.

How?

Nearly all of these have locked icons at the bottom that are part of the interface and not something you have to slide around on your screen that gets hosed as soon as you resize your screen. IE - its a fixed location on the screen no matter what the resolution.

None of that is shown in a screenshot. Being able to lock things in place would be a nice option, but I'd rather the risk of moving things when I don't want to over a fixed UI that I could never move around for UO.
And how often are you really resizing your client window? I do have some characters where I'll play with the client window smaller... but for each character there is only one client window size I use (per computer).

What I cannot show is how other UI's make it easier to set these skills/things up vs UO's macro system.

So explain it.

If you can mod the mana/health balls like Diablo I'd love it.

*adds it to his list of things to try and mod*

 

[Stupid Miner]

Everyone one who's been playing 2D for years feels that way at first. Try it for a month and then make up your mind.

 

[olduofan]

Everyone one who's been playing 2D for years feels that way at first. Try it for a month and then make up your mind.

I have and the art is just horrable unless they change some of the mobs and ui art ill never use it

 

[Zayin666]

I have and the art is just horrable unless they change some of the mobs and ui art ill never use it

I think you can replace the UI art with skins and mods.

But I think the client is so much more than ugly art... all the cool features I wouldnt miss just to have some "better" mob arts in the old client

 

[DarkVoid]

Why is it the images in this thread have not been shrunk down so the page fits properly onto my screen?

If I mouseover one of the images that is oversized, I get "Click the image to open in full size." and this shrinks the image down instead of enlarging it. WTF? It's already oversized, I don't want to click it to make it smaller.

To Stratics board admins: It would be nice if I could specify the screen size I'm using in preferences, and have your board render everything (including pictures) down to that size so they fit automatically onto that screen.

Edit: I just went to my control panel and back to this thread, and it then snapped everything to the visible screen size I'm using on this browser.

 

[Zym Dragon]

Everyone one who's been playing 2D for years feels that way at first. Try it for a month and then make up your mind.

I have and the art is just horrable unless they change some of the mobs and ui art ill never use it

What art? Specifically? Seriously. Please elaborate.

UI art we can change, mob art we cannot. When you saw this "horrable" art, were you zoomed out to the 1:1 aspect ratio? If not, then yeah.. you will see a blobish pixelated mess. Which mob looks so bad to you that keeps you from trying the EC?

Visit the link below to see some nice skins for the UI. Don't like any of them? Tell me what you want for UI art and I will see what I can do.

 

[T'Challa]

I shouldn't have to mod a brand new client to make it good.

2D4TW

 

[Zym Dragon]

I shouldn't have to mod a brand new client to make it good.

2D4TW

I hope you don't use UOA or UOAM, while you enjoy the classic client. They aren't really part of the old client.

Modding isn't about "having" to though. It's about having the option to, because no UI is perfect nor fits everyone's needs.