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Farewell UO! Its been fun!

Lord Chaos

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
And the comment about my grandson. Well, that's mostly a response to Chaos who suggested doing something else and ignoring the problems. I'm not gonna do that. I'm an old granny who's sick of seeing the damage that the bullies do when no one cares enough or is too intimidated to speak up. I understand this is just a damn game and yeah some idiot deciding to hog the spawn is in no way equivalent to having a jerk shake your seven week old grandson and totally mess up the rest of the little guy's life and tip upside down the life of everyone else in the family. Maybe having my life tipped upside down three years ago has made me a little more sensitive about certain issues. No, I'm not gonna back down on this. I will speak up when I see stuff like this. The world doesn't need more bullies and it especially doesn't need large corporations to provide opportunities for the bullies to act in complete anonymity and with no repercussions whatsoever. In my opinion, companies that look like they encourage that kind of behavior truly need to be called out for it and at the very least provide some kind of rational explanation for why they're doing it.
No, those two aren't even remotely similar...so quit comparing them as if they are. One is far far more horrible than you *maybe* not being able to get a spawn that day...it used to be that you couldn't even get to a spawn without getting PKed repeatedly.

Who cares about the chat, if it really bothers you (I've never seen anything bad in chat), then leave it, go to another channel, put the person on ignore, etc. There are lots of options.

You're completely overreacting to this. So you never went to Stratics OT, did you?
 
C

Coppelia

Guest
Uo is the last game were there are remnants of "wild" designs. There's so much a player can do, that it's hard to see all the consequences of an addition. Thinking EA is encouraging bullies by giving them more power is paranoia. The new tame was added not to annoy tamers, but in order that this time (in reference to dread horses), every tamer that wants one will be able to get one. Those are the developers' words. That's the exact opposite of what Tina says.

UO isn't Disneyland, you can't put everything behind fences, with a protection and strict safety rules, an over-present security staff, clean little paved roads with a properly cut lawn around and a closely watched drinking water fountain. I wouldn't play such a game.

So it's perfectly understandable that you leave the game when you feel too involved and every tiny issue cumulates to an exaggerated drama. But don't blame the devs. You said it yourself, UO was crunching your life. So it's time to take a break. Nobody's against that, we're all thankful for all the guides you did. But spitting on devs because they weren't able to deliver you a pasteurized fool-proof over-tested feature, that's going too far. Maybe you could look at yourself too : your personal problems made you notice more and more those issues and your patience wore out faster and faster. UO didn't really change there.

It's totally normal to give a feedback to devs pointing the methods of griefing that've been made possible. But I remember reading the same issue with dread horse being killed before havingany chance to tame it. Had I just mentionned that I'd like to tame one that someone gave me one. I don't know if Europa is so special, but I prefer to think about all the nice players who helped me, like Petra for the dread horse, Miss Teacup for my crafter's fire beetle, Lady Flame for my candle of love, etc. That's UO for me. Not the few annoying selfish players that are a bit too excited about the latest craze and bother other people.

More often than not, just talking with the other players avoid big misunderstanding. There's too many autistic paranoids thinking every other player is after them and aren't able to type a sentence of explanation. It leads to situation like for the new dragon mount : some people were crying on the forums because other players were killing them, and one of these players had to come and explain that they were just looking for good stats and taking turns, and any players wanting one with lower stats was welcome to take it.

So calm down. Point out problems, but don't start those conspiracy theories about devs protecting bullies or whatever. You're only hurting yourself.
 

Tina Small

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You people are amazing.

I DO HAVE BANE DRAGONS AND HAD THEM WHEN I MADE MY FIRST "DRAMATIC POST" ALMOST TWO WEEKS AGO.

This is NOT about not being able to get a damn bane dragon.
 
B

Beer_Cayse

Guest
Just now I get thru all the posts and then figure out you are the person I saw just before we all went on the T-hunt a few days ago. Seems to me I (or rather Spin Nakor) marveled that UBB was a guild abbreviation he had not seen in a long time ... to which you smiled.

Fare well and safe journeys where ever you go and in all your activities.
 

Hannes Erich

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Fare thee well, to those who are leaving. After years of begrudging instanced content in other MMOs, threads like this make me realize how I'm growing to appreciate it more and more. I love UO, don't get me wrong; but I won't argue with Tina when she says (in so many words) that the nutbags are, indeed, around every corner.

I'm leaving UO again too, though for a different and temporary reason, and I know I'll be back (I always come back to UO). See, for me, right now, I want an MMO that will help me wind down after a hard day's work; and for the first time, I'm realizing that sand box style MMOs (no matter how much I love them and have preferred them) just require more time, energy and concentration than I have at the end of some days. Maybe it's age.

I have unsubscribed from Eve Online and will be unsubscribing from UO shortly. I'm keeping City of Heroes as my only subscription; while a bit of an amusement park, it doesn't tell me what rides to ride, its missions and story arcs are instanced (nutbag free), it's the only character-centric MMO I know of (not item or skill based), and there are many (many, many, many) opportunities to create my own content.

Oh. And I'm also going to read some of these books that have been laying around my apartment. And maybe write one of my own. :)
 
B

Beer_Cayse

Guest
Yup - I'm getting that way as well - for the same reason. It is fun, but damnall draining when I just want to relax.
 

hawkeye_pike

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
[...]we've seen EA add new stuff to the game that seems to have been designed deliberately to allow people to be real jerks to other players who are also paying to play the game.
The more freedom players have, the more creative and exciting gameplay is. But also, the more tools jerks will have to annoy others.

MMORPGs are by design games that offer a lot of freedom to the players. Or at least, they should be. Because that's what distinguishes them from single-player games. Unfortunately, most of these freedoms have already been stripped off the game during the past years, which renders UO today nothing more than a quite versatile SIMS game.

I find it a pity that many people fail to see the chances you have in a game with lots of possibilities (both good and evil), and that most UO players seem to prefer a safe haven to play in, where everything is handed to them on a silver platter.

I am beginning to doubt that UO will ever get back its original character and freedom, and unfortunately that's what will drive most players away from the game in a long term.

I'd much rather see content that brings players together to fight a common foe and rewards cooperation. But that is apparently not the direction in which Cal and company want to take the game since we keep getting content that seems to deliberately drive wedges between groups of people and/or pays great rewards for being selfish.
But that's exactly what failed in the past. There were numerous events where people came together to fight a common foe and for rewards. What was the result? Those who did not get a reward for whatever reasons spammed these boards with massive complaints, calling everything "unfair". That's what you get when you turn an MMORPG into a safe-zone item-based kindergarden game.

I very much respect you opinion, Tina, and I find it sad that you leave. But I strongly diasgree with what you posted here. The only thing I'd agree with is that UO would need GMs who occasionaly take action against notorious griefers.
 
B

Babble

Guest
But it is a development fault by making things too rare.
In most mmos as in life we get rewarded by having rare things as they are worth more and the one who dies with most won the game of life it seems.

Good designers would have put up more camps possibly with different strengths for different kind of gameplay.

Warhammer is not the first one to have done Public Quests as chamspawns basically are such. And this event reeks of a cheap copy of Public Quests.
:p
 

phantus

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
But it is a development fault by making things too rare.
In most mmos as in life we get rewarded by having rare things as they are worth more and the one who dies with most won the game of life it seems.

Good designers would have put up more camps possibly with different strengths for different kind of gameplay.

Warhammer is not the first one to have done Public Quests as chamspawns basically are such. And this event reeks of a cheap copy of Public Quests.
:p
No. Public quests allow for healers. They give prizes to those who actually did something, not those who just hung out waiting for a reward. They give a bonus to those who didn't get a reward the last time they did the PQ. While I'm sure you know all this I just don't see how you can compare them. Public Quests are so much more advanced than UO's systems it's like comparing a bicycle to a porche.

See ya Sindris. Glad you had a good run.
 
B

Babble

Guest
Give UO time.
Once upon a time we did not have 'blue' corpses.
If a monster dropped all could loot it.

I think we can agree that the handing out of rewards is ... well sucky.

They could have done a point system which might seem more fair.

I think that UO is not doing itself a favour by going the 'rare loot' rewards.

In a game where each weapon is 'unique/rare' only geeks can quarrel about more rares.
:p
 

Arcus

Grand Poobah
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
we've seen EA add new stuff to the game that seems to have been designed deliberately to allow people to be real jerks to other players who are also paying to play the game.
I am definitely not an EA apologist but this is emotion speaking not common sense. Do you really believe that they intentionally put stuff in game wit the purpose of allowing the jerks to hassle other people? Really?
 
E

Evlar

Guest
Although I would suggest that Tina might be confusing real-life with game-life a little too much, whilst also heading off on a crusade against developers who I don't believe have set out intentionally to encourage what she accuses them off, I do sympathise due to what I feel is a more accurate assessment of things.

I'll also note (highlighted in red), what brought me to my final decision to stop playing UO.

· Utterly inept customer support.

When EA customer service representatives don't even know what Ultima Online is, whilst "in-game" (yeah right!) GM's are multi-tasking for a number of games, plus understand very little of the game mechanics. They also seem to care little for "problems" that arise in-game, that might not necessarily be "mechanics" related.

I think that the latter may be one of the frustrations Tina may be experiencing in some respects. Although I prefer not to give "bullies" or griefers or other idiots the satisfaction of my attention (which is what they're after, an audience...), I do believe there are more than enough genuine cases we've all seen or experienced. When these warrant urgent attention and all that happens is a canned response or no action appears to have been taken, then it's highly frustrating. That can in some respects, give the impression that those running the game don't care.

I simply think it's nothing more than CS/GM ineptitude. Nothing deliberately intended, though wouldn't it be nice to see some real improvement there. After all, customers are paying for a service, part of which they're clearly not receiving to a satisfactory standard.

On a side note, I have actually witnessed a couple of situations where a player was suffering severe abuse and harrassment from another. Neither time was anything done about the offending players, regardless of numerous GM calls for action, from several players.

As a paying customer, I would expect to recieve a basic "standard" and level of support from CS and GM's. As the years have gone by, the level of help and support I've recieved when I've encountered genuine issues, has been sub-standard, usually offering no actual help or support.

· Poorly produced design implementations, rushed patches & fixes, unfinished/incomplete content.

Although I understand the difficulties of working with a game that functions with two clients - one which by current standards should be obsolete, the other still in "beta" - too many patches or content releases, are introduced to the game, without sufficient forethought or testing.

Although I know there's always a clamour for "new" content, quests, items, etc... I also believe that the majority of paying subscribers would indeed be more patient, if they knew the time they waited, resulted in a more polished product once it's pushed out the door.

Personally, I don't believe that a game where many "features" either don't work properly, or are simply "broken", fixes and patches appear rushed and incomplete/untested, offers value for money. Certainly not when compared to other products, that seem more polished, are cheaper, or even free to play. Even more so, when considering the suggested player numbers (circa 70,000 to 100,000?) and revenue the game still generates. Not enough of that revenue is being put back into the game that generated it.

· The post-AoS/post-Trammel game.

I'm not here to preach "classic" shards, but to make an observation.

Once AoS style gameplay was introduced, it changed the dynamics of the game for ever. In fairness, I believe that "Imbuing" is an attempt at balancing the game. Putting choices back in the hands of the players themselves, but one that was working within a game, that's already been blighted by messy implementations and expansions.

I feel that the style of gameplay represented by the post-AoS content, has shaped the player base, more than the player-base has shaped the game itself. It's created a game where for many, the wholse point is to accumulate the best items. Not the journey to "greatness", nor the participation. The mindset of many players, is simply attaining those items.

Although there are still great players playing UO - and I've shared many hours of fun playing the game with them - there seems to be far too much reliance and "need" to have the latest uber-item.

When a game creates a situation where the majority of those playing, are only seemingly interested in playing the game for "items", then in itself causes friction. I don't recall seeing that much friction over "items" pre-AoS, because they simply weren't the major factor in the game. As soon as runics, artifacts and item statistics were introduced, it became a glorified case of keeping up with the Jones', or beating the Jone's to it!

Theoretically, anti-social behaviour shouldn't be a problem in a game which now separates consenting and non-consenting PvP. You can't be PK'd in Trammel (unless someone infiltrates a guild). PK's were apparently the biggest cause of grief and bullying, which caused the implementation of Trammel. All should have been fine and dandy right? Wrong, because AoS content created the "competition" for items, which now seems to cause most of the grief and bullying that plagues the game for many. Too many players seem content to step on anyone's toes, simply to obtain certain items, without a care for who they upset along the way. In their minds, they need or deserve the item more than their "competitor".

Such is why I like the idea of a "back to basics" approach, a return to some traditional principals in the game. I'm not going to preach "classic propoganda", which I've laughably seen it referred to, but I do think the game would be in much better shape, a more pleasant experience, if certain principals were applied.

All I will say, is that had AoS been implemented well, I would probably have liked it more. As it stands, the game is now a mixture of old obsolete, superseded items, combined with the "latest" desireable items. Imbuing was a good attempt at creating more balance and need for crafted items, but it still falls a long way short of clearing up the mess that came before it.

Likewise though, joining in a chase for "items", or feeling the "need" for certain items in order to compete sufficiently, isn't fun... it's a chore. I preferred the simplicity of GM made weapons and armour, with truly "rare" uber-items (Vanq/Invul), that weren't actually that "uber" compared to GM made items. Perhaps imbuing has levelled things a little better, but I really don't find reliance on a calculator to work out item properties, a "fun" element, or adds "feature" to a game.


---------

I do miss playing the game with many friends I've made over the years. Most of them have left for similar reasons to my own, whilst some still remain, in the gradually fading hope that things "will get better".

Perhaps sandbox games simply don't work, or are appealing to the masses in todays gaming industry. For me, it doesn't work any more when it's not truly sandbox. When things have been messed around with so much, that it looks like something covered in plasters, bandages and splints, that might hold things together for the time being, but will never actually fix parts of what wasn't essentially broken in the first place.

To all those who have played as long as, or longer, than I - then you really do deserve much, much more. It's truly a sad thing to observe the game that lifted the latch for all the other online games, limping along as it is now. Your loyalty is the reason the game is still alive today. EA and whoever the developers of the moment are, should never forget that. You are just as much a part of the games history as they are.
 

phantus

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Give UO time.
Once upon a time we did not have 'blue' corpses.
If a monster dropped all could loot it.

I think we can agree that the handing out of rewards is ... well sucky.

They could have done a point system which might seem more fair.

I think that UO is not doing itself a favour by going the 'rare loot' rewards.

In a game where each weapon is 'unique/rare' only geeks can quarrel about more rares.
:p
I have given UO time. They spend time on things that don't matter. Instead of building and expanding on good systems they constantly decide to create new ones. The champ spawns are a good example. They moved in a positive direction with the abyssal lich spawn I must admit but there is so much more they can do. Time is not on their side.

The rare loot thing is fine. The problem is the people putting in the rewards do not understand where mediocre loot comes into play. When you get 50 bags of total crap you begin to get discouraged. If instead, there was a larger set of rewards that were marginally useful and 1 or 2 rare drops the system would be far superior. I know this because I play UO. I know when I get a bag the best I can hope for is a relic fragment. Hell, if I was given a relic fragment each time I clicked the chest this system wouldn't be as bad to be honest. That, however, is not the case.
 
O

Old Man of UO

Guest
we've seen EA add new stuff to the game that seems to have been designed deliberately to allow people to be real jerks to other players who are also paying to play the game.
I am definitely not an EA apologist but this is emotion speaking not common sense. Do you really believe that they intentionally put stuff in game wit the purpose of allowing the jerks to hassle other people? Really?
No, I don't think EA did that intentionally... but then, how could they NOT know that was going to happen? The Developers DID KNOW it was going to happen, but underestimated both how much griefing happen and how angry it makes other players. And it could have been avoided.
 
S

Sergul'zan_SP

Guest
Best wishes, Sirius. Perhaps one day you'll return.

No, those two aren't even remotely similar...so quit comparing them as if they are. One is far far more horrible than you *maybe* not being able to get a spawn that day...it used to be that you couldn't even get to a spawn without getting PKed repeatedly.

Who cares about the chat, if it really bothers you (I've never seen anything bad in chat), then leave it, go to another channel, put the person on ignore, etc. There are lots of options.

You're completely overreacting to this. So you never went to Stratics OT, did you?
No, she's not. She wasn't complaining about the griefers directly...give several spoiled little brats a little leverage and they'll run away with it as quickly as possible. She was complaining about the fact that the developers implement systems in the game that are easily abused by said individuals with little or no attempts to address the issues in a reasonable amount of time.

Remember how long 4/9 casting went unchecked?
How long have people been speedhacking?
How about script miners?

The problem with the above are not the scum that practice(d) them, but rather the failure of the dev team to address them in a reasonable amount of time. You are correct in saying that you will encounter all sorts of individuals in real life, but that is also why we have laws. It is EA's job to enforce the law, and they are doing an atrocious job.
 

Harlequin

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
There are many things I wish to say, but I am at a loss of words at these moments.

If you don't mind, can you share with me your reasons for leaving via pm?

Fare thee well in thy travels Sindris!
 
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