erm, basic info on murder/red needed..

[arkanos]

Hello,
i am a 13 year vet and - beleive it or not - have maybe killed 5 players in all these years. 3 or 4 of them being fellow guildmembers and this usually happened through "tragical accidents" involving pets while doing guild hunts.

Following story: the other day I decided to take my smith to my local fel cave to do some mining and I find this guy obviously scripting (the usual recall - mine - tinker tools as needed - mine - recall routine).
Now before someone here says something like: how do you know he is really scripting? He has probably better things to do than to talk to you!
Let´s just assume he was, ok?

So after paging on him (exploit reason) nothing happens - I see him continuing 24/7. Whenever I go there I can be sure to see him in the next couple of minutes.
So, I get my trusted ABC archer out to take matters into my own hands and - long story short - kill him.
It did surprise me that I actually could, because I thought with protection on, his recall will work before I can get him down, but my arrows seemed to actually make him fizzle the spell.

This makes him stop for about 15 minutes and back he is....
Suddenly enjoying the "PVP" (yes, I know how poor this sounds) I decide to kill him again.

After this I start to think: hmmm, I just killed an "innocent" - twice - and probably did something criminal. I remembered the old "I must consider my sins" sentence and result is 0 short term counts and 0 long term counts.
So now to my questions:

1.) Will killing this guy over and over make me go red?
2.) Why don´t I have counts? Has he got to "give" me a count? The one or two times I got raided at champ spawns and was killed I never had the option to "give" someone a count as far as I remember. So how does this work?
3.) Is attacking him a "criminal act"? Or only if I kill him? Or only if I loot him? Or any of the above.
4) Will any or all of the above actions turn me grey (I noticed I turned grey but cant remember at what point -attacking,killing,looting - it happened.
5.) If I am grey and I go to a guard zone (recall, sacred journey did not work for a while) can anyone call guards on me?
6.) What happens if I go red really? I simply have to sit somewhere ingame to make it go away?

Well, I do know how noobish this all sounds but please forgive me. My interest in PvP has really been awakened lately (not through the above, but through the upcoming arena system) and I suddenly saw how little I know.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Hephaistos of Europa

 

[Petra Fyde]

Try this:
UO Stratics *New* | The Murder System

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

1.) Will killing this guy over and over make me go red?
2.) Why don´t I have counts? Has he got to "give" me a count? The one or two times I got raided at champ spawns and was killed I never had the option to "give" someone a count as far as I remember. So how does this work?
3.) Is attacking him a "criminal act"? Or only if I kill him? Or only if I loot him? Or any of the above.
4) Will any or all of the above actions turn me grey (I noticed I turned grey but cant remember at what point -attacking,killing,looting - it happened.
5.) If I am grey and I go to a guard zone (recall, sacred journey did not work for a while) can anyone call guards on me?
6.) What happens if I go red really? I simply have to sit somewhere ingame to make it go away?

1- Only if he reports you.

2- If you are blue and someone there is a gump that shows on the screen asking if you/they would like to report the murderer. If you say yes 1 count, if you say no, there is no count.

3- Attacking a blue is by itself a criminal act. You will appear grey to anyone coming by. Looting his corpse if someone else kills him is a criminal act, you well show grey to any that are around.

4- Yepp

5- They can call the guards on you from what I remember, but the guards just watch you. Unless you attack etc. then is guard whackin time. But I can also remember being gw for rezzing a red during the Brit invasions a few years ago .. soooo *shrugs*

6- Yepp, sit or eat a forged pardon {removes one count per pardon}. I think it's still 8 hours short term and 40 hours long term for 1 count to go away.

 

[Picus at the office]

1.) Will killing this guy over and over make me go red?
2.) Why don´t I have counts? Has he got to "give" me a count? The one or two times I got raided at champ spawns and was killed I never had the option to "give" someone a count as far as I remember. So how does this work?
3.) Is attacking him a "criminal act"? Or only if I kill him? Or only if I loot him? Or any of the above.
4) Will any or all of the above actions turn me grey (I noticed I turned grey but cant remember at what point -attacking,killing,looting - it happened.
5.) If I am grey and I go to a guard zone (recall, sacred journey did not work for a while) can anyone call guards on me?
6.) What happens if I go red really? I simply have to sit somewhere ingame to make it go away?

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Hephaistos of Europa

What a shame, all this time and you just found the best part of the game...oh well:
1) Yes, five murder counts and you are red.
2) Scripters don't tend to give out murder counts. They are more concerned with getting back to what they were doing and hope that you lose intrest.
3) All the above, you will be grey and free to be attacked by anyone(I'd kill you in a heartbeat)
4) See above
5) For a short time yes but some people might decide to just kill you, myself included.
6) You should not be concerned with going red, every player should have at least one red char. It takes 40 hours of sitting in game to erase a murder. Take your archer and go kill people it's fun and rewarding. Make new archers on new shards and go kill people, you will like it and understand why everyone else is doing it. I try to murder at least one person a day but it is hard due to factions so putting a person in stat is close enough but doing this should be done much more often.

Good Luck and murder freely.

 

[arkanos]

Thanks for the answers!!!

@Kyle: hmmm, the one or two times I was killed at a champ I don´t remember a gump to give a count. Well, maybe I did not see it.
@Picus: what I don´t understand really: you say you would attack a grey in a heartbeat. But what difference does it make to you if I am blue or grey really? Unless I am in a guard zone I guess. Has it got to do with the murder count I could give you when I am blue? Is this something people even think about if they PvP?

Update on the story btw:
I went back to the cave and a red stealth archer appeared out of hiding and attacked me but somehow did not seem to damage me much, so I thought I toy around with him, I got him below half health a couple of times but he always disappeared when on low health. Suddenly his friend shows up and I thought it was time to leave (on foot because being dismounted several times).
I managed to run all the way from the northern brit mining cave to brit while they were attacking me. Strange that they could not kill me, I know nothing about PvP. I actually fought them with my dragon slayer bow .
This all happened on Europa and the attackers were SL faction (I guess I am allowed to say this without breaking any TOS).

So, if anyone wants to report on a script miner (maybe it helps if more than one report) - or do other legal things - visit the northern brit mining cave in fel and wait a bit

I have to say i actually had fun doing the PvP dance (until it was two opponents ).....

Hephaistos of Europa

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

The difference in you being blue {you will get gump asking if you want to report} and grey {you will not get a gump asking if you want to report} is why anyone attacks grey.

That could have happened to you at a spawn or you could have attacked the other person first, like with an area effect spell. Once you attack first you will not be asked if you want to report because you are the aggressor and they beat you back basically. But in the heat of a battle it can be easy to click off the area and it defaults to non reported.

 

[Picus at the office]

Thanks for the answers!!!

.
@Picus: what I don´t understand really: you say you would attack a grey in a heartbeat. But what difference does it make to you if I am blue or grey really? Unless I am in a guard zone I guess. Has it got to do with the murder count I could give you when I am blue? Is this something people even think about if they PvP?

Hephaistos of Europa

Simply because I could. If I am on a faction player and I happen accross a different faction person I attack, same goes for a red or a grey. PvP is a amazing part of the game and killing people is a great part of PvP. It's hard to actually be a murdering player anymore so you have to take what you can get.

That said if I was seeing script miners running around often I would not be using a blue so you should just go red and join the fun.

 

[aarons6]

bascially pvp = murder counts if you win.
the murder count system is so broken its not even practical.
nobody can stay ONLINE for 40 hours on one character..

they need to change something and it needs to be done fast.
either make it so you have to be in factions to pvp, or do away with murder counts all together.

 

[Flutter]

You will only go red if you get 5 murder counts.
You get counts by killing innocent blue characters.
Innocent blue characters are not grey, red, or orange.
If you are grey you are freely attackable without being able to call guards to defend you.
If you are grey you cannot give murder counts.
You may be grey in guard zone without penalty.
You cannot commit a criminal act in guard zone without penalty (ie: guards can be called on you). If guards can be called on you, you will get a message stating it is so. NPCs can and will call guards (those dirty rats).
If you kill someone and they res without giving you a count you don't have to worry about it anymore. They can't go back and change their mind and count you. You got away with murder OJ.
If you do go red you can play the character normally but cannot buy from NPCs, call guards to help you, or go to non-pvp facets. You may "work off" the counts by staying logged in on that character for 8 hours or you can eat a forged pardon you get from treasure maps.
To give people counts a gump pops up upon death offering the names of those who caused your demise and if you would like to report the murder or not. If you are attacked by more than one person it is possible to report (ie: count) one person and not the other. It is at the discretion of the deceased.

 

[Picus at the office]

What happened to the other replies to this thread? I wrote a nice short tutorial for those that have limited prior PvP play, can this be restored?

 

[Petra Fyde]

Yes, you can re-post. Without quoted post that was the cause of it being included in those removed. I will copy/paste it to you by pm so that you don't have to re-write from scratch.

 

[Picus at the office]

Thank you. Here is what I had wrote:

PvP is the only aspect of this game that should keep a 13 year vet going, IMO. After doing everything and killing all the MoB's, finishing all the quests and building all the chars, farming this and crafting that PvP is the only one constant that UO gives time over time and is never the same.

I have built chars on many servers and there is always someone to stalk, watch, kill or fail at doing so. It is the true end game but it never gets old. You can have one day where you are near unstoppable and the next where you are the laughing stock of the shard. It is the only place where you get true character acting and the only place where you ever see full shard participation. I've seen people who would love nothing better than to beat the other player to death with bare hands drop everything to make sure that a item that was lost made it back to that very same person.

The PvP community is tight and has a solid following that IMO only gets stronger, it would be a shame to play this game with all the care bear aspects that have been added over the years and not take advantage of them.

Make a char you feel comfortable with like a straight dexxer. Research your one handed weapons and only carry two at first like a disarm and armor ignore set up(you can use the ingame macro's to switch between these very fast) or a balanced comp for a archer. Make a suit, doesn't need to be all 70's but it has to be 60+ with as much DCI, HCI, EP, mana regen, 40 LMC and stat increase as you can fit. This is not hard, use excel to make a spread sheet and work with it. Make sure you have 120 weapon skill even if the only thing you can afford is macing, believe me macing will tear people up. Then add skills as you see fit such as 110+RESISTING MAGIC and others. You can sacrifice anatomy on most templates and run with 110 healing but either way make sure you use enhanced bandages(after you kill people you will notice that dead people use normal bandages). Have a trapped box at all times and make sure that your UO Assist can trip it. Never leave for a fight without all of the potions/apples and never less then 25 greater cures. Chug your str and dex pots all the time and take these into account when setting your prechugged stats 120 str/dex with 50 EP equals 150 after greater chug, again make a UO assist macro to do this and for eating apples.

HAVE FUN AND KILL PEOPLE.

 

[arkanos]

Thank you flutter for the detailed info...
Thank you also Picus, your post has convinced me to give it a try for sure.

Although I have read that many PvPers don´t like the idea of the new arena system, I am looking forward to try out some things in an area where I can be sure I will only have to deal with one opponent at a time before going out to the "real" thing.

And lastly: thx to Petra for cleaning this thread. I am afraid I got a bit too much involved with some of the comments that were posted here regarding different playstyles...

Hephaistos of Europa

 

[Picus at the office]

There was a fair amount of intrest in the arena test shard but you won't see much action at a single shard arena simply due to the fact that most PvPing types do it on the field and not often will people actually duel.

Bring back the test!!!!

 

[John Connelly]

1.) Will killing this guy over and over make me go red?

Do you have a tamer? Tame a mare or a couple of frenzies and release them in the area where he mines. Alternatively lure spawn on to him. That way you cannot get counts.

 

[arkanos]

Do you have a tamer? Tame a mare or a couple of frenzies and release them in the area where he mines. Alternatively lure spawn on to him. That way you cannot get counts.

Well, thx. But I guess I am one of those oldfashioned guys that tend to stick to the rules (afaik the luring and taming/releasing is not allowed and can cost your account). Even if your idea is very tempting of course

@Picus, you are probably right, but on Europa I know lots of people, oldtimers, who have the same thoughts about PvP as me (they want to try it, but...). Since most are in other guilds the arenas will give us an opportunity to train a bit at least. I know felucca is huge and we should be able to find secluded areas where we could kill each other over and over but the arenas would be convenient for lazy old people like us.

Having said this: I am aware that the duelling system will NOT prepare any of us for what is really happening out there but it is a start at least.

Btw, if the arenas would be on a test center I would still use them if I could import my char oc. I even understand why people would rather have them on a test shard to be able to fight people from other shards. To me - at the moment - it makes no difference I think.

Hephaistos of Europa

 

[LadyNico]

Do you have a tamer? Tame a mare or a couple of frenzies and release them in the area where he mines. Alternatively lure spawn on to him. That way you cannot get counts.

Well, thx. But I guess I am one of those oldfashioned guys that tend to stick to the rules (afaik the luring and taming/releasing is not allowed and can cost your account). Even if your idea is very tempting of course

@Picus, you are probably right, but on Europa I know lots of people, oldtimers, who have the same thoughts about PvP as me (they want to try it, but...). Since most are in other guilds the arenas will give us an opportunity to train a bit at least. I know felucca is huge and we should be able to find secluded areas where we could kill each other over and over but the arenas would be convenient for lazy old people like us.

Having said this: I am aware that the duelling system will NOT prepare any of us for what is really happening out there but it is a start at least.

Btw, if the arenas would be on a test center I would still use them if I could import my char oc. I even understand why people would rather have them on a test shard to be able to fight people from other shards. To me - at the moment - it makes no difference I think.

Hephaistos of Europa

Luring & releasing aggressive critters in Felucca is not only quite acceptable and well within the rules, it's also enormous amounts of fun! One of my fave chars is a ninja with herding.

 

[arkanos]

Luring & releasing aggressive critters in Felucca is not only quite acceptable and well within the rules, it's also enormous amounts of fun! One of my fave chars is a ninja with herding.

Wow, now this is completely new to me...
Hmm, I guess I´ll get my tamer out and try some fun things with the script miner in this case

Thx for pointing this out Lady Nico...

Hephaistos of Europa

 

[>DatGuyUKnow<]

Wow, now this is completely new to me...
Hmm, I guess I´ll get my tamer out and try some fun things with the script miner in this case

Thx for pointing this out Lady Nico...

Hephaistos of Europa

Don't kill too many or else you won't be able to buy ingots anymore.