EC vs 2D

[Triberius]

The real debate should be 2D vs 3D. What would bring in more p(l)ayers?

However the decision has already been made. UO is now down to a part-time skeleton crew and EA has been working with NetDragon on 3D UO.

Any arguments that CC players wont accept 3D are absurd. 2D is just 3D at a fixed overhead angle. P(l)ayers wont accept substandard amateurish graphics. They wont accept frequent crashing. That is why KR and the EC have been rejected by the overwhelming majority.

3D is the future and it will be released in 2012.

And I'm going to say it again that 2012 release isn't going to effect the majority of people who read Stratics and are involved with this discussion. So far the Netdragon UO project has confirmed it is only going to be made available for users in specific market regions mainly in areas where UO doesn't currently have a measurable presence. Like I said before if you are in one of those regions all fine and well enjoy it, but for the vast majority of us it has no relevance on the UO we currently play, and looking forward to Netdragon's offering is pointless.

 

[Woodsman]

I can agree with this, but Bioware's success rides on Star Wars. Remember what EA does when a subsidiary fails once. But I might be pessimistic about it right now...who knows, I do have a Bias as do most of us.

Star Wars scares me after what happened to Mythic when Warhammer crashed and burned.

That was before this week though.

Now that BioWare has been promoted to head of all EA RPGs and MMORPGs and is now actually a full label instead of just a studio, I feel more confident about UO's future.

I don't even know if Origin was a full label like BioWare now is. I think Origin was more of a studio that was given a lot of independence, or just acted a lot more independently.

It's weird as hell thinking about the fact that BioWare is now on the same level as EA Sports. Origin was definitely never at that level as a studio.

 

[HD2300]

And I'm going to say it again that 2012 release isn't going to effect the majority of people who read Stratics and are involved with this discussion. So far the Netdragon UO project has confirmed it is only going to be made available for users in specific market regions mainly in areas where UO doesn't currently have a measurable presence. Like I said before if you are in one of those regions all fine and well enjoy it, but for the vast majority of us it has no relevance on the UO we currently play, and looking forward to Netdragon's offering is pointless.

Dungeon Keeper Online which NetDragon is also working on with EA, was originally announced 2 years ago as Asia only, but is now being released in the US. The Indian version of UO 3D will be in English I assume, so it will ready to release worldwide. 2D is holding UO back. UO 3D is the future for Ultima.

 

[Triberius]

Star Wars scares me after what happened to Mythic when Warhammer crashed and burned.

That was before this week though.

Now that BioWare has been promoted to head of all EA RPGs and MMORPGs and is now actually a full label instead of just a studio, I feel more confident about UO's future.

I don't even know if Origin was a full label like BioWare now is. I think Origin was more of a studio that was given a lot of independence, or just acted a lot more independently.

It's weird as hell thinking about the fact that BioWare is now on the same level as EA Sports. Origin was definitely never at that level as a studio.

I'd be afraid, I'd be very afraid. SW:TOR's reviews from people allowed hands on time with it's "Demo" build haven't all been promising. Bit-tech did a review that was quite negative...

A few choice excerpts examples from their article...

The first problem is that none of the story mechanics that Bioware is so keen to talk about genuinely change the shape of the game away from the now-standard MMO template. Each class and character has a unique story, but functionally you’ll still spend all your time collecting or destroying arbitrarily chosen items. It’s not even like Bioware has gone to great efforts to hide it either – we saw plenty of missions which involved objectives like ‘Destroy turrets alpha and beta’ or ‘Kill five Imperial snipers’.


The plot lines that we saw wouldn’t have been gripping even if they had been populated with Oscar-winning actors, however. Cast in the role of a bounty hunter, our class-specific tale revolved around an event called The Great Hunt – a supposedly secret bounty hunter championship which everyone we met was incongruously aware of. Sponsorship is expensive, however, so the first arc of the quest involved trying to impress the local Hutt ganglord.

We found ourselves wading through an almost obscene amount of combat too, usually against the type of wild beasties and bandits that typify every RPG, ever – but in greater quantity and in an area which felt far smaller. In some cases we’d clear out an area, walk into the next room, turn back and face the exact same enemies we’d killed only moments before. Once or twice we even saw foes respawning over their own corpses as conversations distracted us – very, very anti-fun.

Potential isn’t something that a Star Wars MMO is theoretically short of, so it’s a shame that most of it seems to have been wasted in The Old Republic. What we saw in our time with the game wasn’t always terrible – the combat may be staid and static, but Bioware has at least done a good job at balancing the wide variety of classes against each other.

Instead, the issue that plagues The Old Republic is one of predictability. An MMO from such accomplished RPG writers and based on such a rich fiction could have redefined the genre, but instead appears to merely ape other MMOs, with little thought given to reconciling the fiction with the gameplay or capitalising on the depth of the narrative. From what we've seen, there’s very little to make The Old Republic stand out from any other MMO we’ve played.

Since this article was from April, and the game is already gearing up for Beta, I can't feel assured some of these issues they point out will be addressed adequately or heaven forbid they are actually that way by design.. but it's taken my expectations down quite a notch.

All the other articles I've seen from people with hands on time, was from information released by Bioware so you can't expect too much negativity there...

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Star Wars scares me after what happened to Mythic when Warhammer crashed and burned.

That was before this week though.

Now that BioWare has been promoted to head of all EA RPGs and MMORPGs and is now actually a full label instead of just a studio, I feel more confident about UO's future.

I don't even know if Origin was a full label like BioWare now is. I think Origin was more of a studio that was given a lot of independence, or just acted a lot more independently.

It's weird as hell thinking about the fact that BioWare is now on the same level as EA Sports. Origin was definitely never at that level as a studio.

I'd be afraid, I'd be very afraid. SW:TOR's reviews from people allowed hands on time with it's "Demo" build haven't all been promising. Bit-tech did a review that was quite negative...

A few choice excerpts examples from their article...

The first problem is that none of the story mechanics that Bioware is so keen to talk about genuinely change the shape of the game away from the now-standard MMO template. Each class and character has a unique story, but functionally you’ll still spend all your time collecting or destroying arbitrarily chosen items. It’s not even like Bioware has gone to great efforts to hide it either – we saw plenty of missions which involved objectives like ‘Destroy turrets alpha and beta’ or ‘Kill five Imperial snipers’.


The plot lines that we saw wouldn’t have been gripping even if they had been populated with Oscar-winning actors, however. Cast in the role of a bounty hunter, our class-specific tale revolved around an event called The Great Hunt – a supposedly secret bounty hunter championship which everyone we met was incongruously aware of. Sponsorship is expensive, however, so the first arc of the quest involved trying to impress the local Hutt ganglord.

We found ourselves wading through an almost obscene amount of combat too, usually against the type of wild beasties and bandits that typify every RPG, ever – but in greater quantity and in an area which felt far smaller. In some cases we’d clear out an area, walk into the next room, turn back and face the exact same enemies we’d killed only moments before. Once or twice we even saw foes respawning over their own corpses as conversations distracted us – very, very anti-fun.

Potential isn’t something that a Star Wars MMO is theoretically short of, so it’s a shame that most of it seems to have been wasted in The Old Republic. What we saw in our time with the game wasn’t always terrible – the combat may be staid and static, but Bioware has at least done a good job at balancing the wide variety of classes against each other.

Instead, the issue that plagues The Old Republic is one of predictability. An MMO from such accomplished RPG writers and based on such a rich fiction could have redefined the genre, but instead appears to merely ape other MMOs, with little thought given to reconciling the fiction with the gameplay or capitalising on the depth of the narrative. From what we've seen, there’s very little to make The Old Republic stand out from any other MMO we’ve played.

Since this article was from April, and the game is already gearing up for Beta, I can't feel assured some of these issues they point out will be addressed adequately or heaven forbid they are actually that way by design.. but it's taken my expectations down quite a notch.

All the other articles I've seen from people with hands on time, was from information released by Bioware so you can't expect too much negativity there...

What you just said is exactly why I do not have high hopes for the game. Everyone is trying to repeat WoW but all WoW did was polish the market. You need real innovation, or a different style all-together to have a real ground breaking game. The thing that bothers me, is Bioware knows this. They are well established in the Area of RPG if they just applied that to the MMO sector it would be fine, but for whatever reason they decided to go with another "clone" more or less.

 

[lucitus]

Focusing on strictly the EC won't help anything in the long run as far as declining player base, cheating, and improving the game play experience by a large factor etc... To really do something about overhauling UO and modernizing it they need to focus on the server side, and rebuild it from the ground up first then look at modernizing the client side of things. I expressed my views on it on a personal blog if you want to see what all I have to say then just look here.

Thats wrong focusing on 2d will change nothing, the current player base will get smaller and smaller we see that for years now and then the day comes when UO is down!

I dont say drop the 2d client, i say focus the EC and make new players like to join, nobody also i would never play UO if there is only the 2d client!

 

[Triberius]

Thats wrong focusing on 2d will change nothing, the current player base will get smaller and smaller we see that for years now and then the day comes when UO is down!

I dont say drop the 2d client, i say focus the EC and make new players like to join, nobody also i would never play UO if there is only the 2d client!

I say that focusing on the EC won't really help either because it's really only an improvement in the UI side of things right now. Graphically the EC is still almost a full decade behind the times, it is not what new players want, and until they remove the limiting factors holding it back on the server side of things it will not change anything in the long term.

I don't feel the devs should be focusing on improving either client until they address major issues in the game and overhaul the server side to allow the EC to actually live up to it's potential.

 

[Ender]

I have little hope for any new MMO aside from Guild Wars 2. That's the only one in the near future that appears to be doing anything innovative, rather than just copying the WoW formula.

 

[Siteswap]

As far as getting new players into UO, the EC isnt the answer. The EC is not a viable replacement for the CC, it is simply an alternative. So here we are still, years later, stuck with a 2 client system which I think everyone would agree isnt the best way forward.

Until they replace both the existing clients with a true state of the art 3d client (which will probably never happen) then UO will remain a niche game relying on its loyal (although ever dwindling) playerbase to keep it going. UO will never attract new players in significant numbers with the current 2 client system and it cant ditch one of the current clients in favour of the other as this would decimate the player base to a level that made UO no longer viable.

No win situation.

Oh, and werent they planning on cancelling the CC whern take up of the KR client reached 95%? Never have the idiots in charge of UO made such an error in judjement as this one!

 

[aarons6]

As far as getting new players into UO, the EC isnt the answer. The EC is not a viable replacement for the CC, it is simply an alternative. So here we are still, years later, stuck with a 2 client system which I think everyone would agree isnt the best way forward.

Until they replace both the existing clients with a true state of the art 3d client (which will probably never happen) then UO will remain a niche game relying on its loyal (although ever dwindling) playerbase to keep it going. UO will never attract new players in significant numbers with the current 2 client system and it cant ditch one of the current clients in favour of the other as this would decimate the player base to a level that made UO no longer viable.

No win situation.

Oh, and werent they planning on cancelling the CC whern take up of the KR client reached 95%? Never have the idiots in charge of UO made such an error in judjement as this one!

i agree, i would love to play a uo type game based on the dragon age 2 engine.. one that can tilt, rotate and zoom in.

 

[Woodsman]

Until they replace both the existing clients with a true state of the art 3d client (which will probably never happen) then UO will remain a niche game relying on its loyal (although ever dwindling) playerbase to keep it going.

There is a segment of the player population who has made it clear that it's "CC or nothing" or "2D or nothing" and regardless of what side of that debate you fall on, as you point out, EA doesn't want to screw with losing that group.

Look at UO2 - there was a lot of stuff in there that found its way into World of Warcraft a few years later. UO2 had the potential to shake things up again, but it was canceled for various reasons, with the main reason being competing with UO.

Oh, and werent they planning on cancelling the CC whern take up of the KR client reached 95%? Never have the idiots in charge of UO made such an error in judjement as this one!

It was going to happen with the 3D/Third Dawn client - once player levels reached a certain point, the CC would be ditched, and they did it again with KR. It was dumb, it made CC developers very defensive, and both new clients, especially the original 3D client, saw developer layoffs which set the clients back.

Things have changed a lot though just in this past week. BioWare is now an actual label, which should mean the end of EA executives mucking around with UO. There were some pretty ******** decisions over the years, clearly made by executives who came out of non-development or non-gaming backgrounds and who didn't understand RPGs/MMORPGs and that should be at an end, since the decisions won't go any further than the top of BioWare.

 

[Woodsman]

i agree, i would love to play a uo type game based on the dragon age 2 engine.. one that can tilt, rotate and zoom in.

The EC is based on the Gamebryo client which is the engine for Dark Age of Camelot, Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Rift, Warhammer Online, and a lot of others. The problem is not the engine, it's what Dermott and others pointed out - the design of UO itself, and the resistance of a lot of players to change. Arguably they could be right, too much change and what we would end up with is not a UO that we would recognize.

If they were to change engines, I'd prefer HeroEngine as it's both client and server and it's what BioWare plans on using for its MMOs starting with Star Wars. It will probably power Kingdoms of Amalur's MMO, assuming the single-player Kingdoms of Amalur does well.

Speaking of Kingdoms of Amalur, that's probably the game we should be watching instead of Star Wars. It's designed by the guy behind Elder Scrolls Morrowind and Elder Scrolls Oblivion, it's got R.A. Salvatore doing the game universe and backstory, and our good friend Todd McFarlane doing the art/concepts. If they turn that into an MMO, that would be three fantasy MMOs under BioWare, four if you count Warhammer although I don't see Warhammer lasting too long after Star Wars or after the other Warhammer MMO launches. I'd think Camelot would have more to worry about. BioWare developers seem more interested in Ultima.

 

[Elric_Soban]

Ok not to derail here, but where are you guys getting all this "UO 3D in 2012" stuff?

 

[Petra Fyde]

Ok not to derail here, but where are you guys getting all this "UO 3D in 2012" stuff?

HD2300 is posting it in multiple threads.

Net dragon are developing, under license, a version of UO. However what he is totally ignoring is the fact that their license only covers China, Hong Kong, Macau and India.

 

[Elric_Soban]

oh i c.
lol

I'l wait until an official EA announcement before I get my hopes up.

(Even still, i was just getting to really liking the EC, so having to get into yet a new client will annoy me. I suppose as long as all the UI/Macro functionality is kept, and It still plays isometric, id be ok with it.)

 

[HD2300]

Net dragon are developing, under license, a 3D version of UO. However what he is totally ignoring is the fact that their license only covers China, Hong Kong, Macau and India.

...but dont discount the fact that NetDragon is also developing, under license from EA, Dungeon Keeper Online, which was initially announced 2 years ago for release only in China, Hong Kong, Macau and India, but now is going to be released in the US.

Why are there 20 types of Crest, not just one? Because 20 types of Crest make more money that just one type of Crest.

All Ultima fans rejoice. There will finally be a real 3D UO.

 

[Cirno]

...but dont discount the fact that NetDragon is also developing, under license from EA, Dungeon Keeper Online, which was initially announced 2 years ago for release only in China, Hong Kong, Macau and India, but now is going to be released in the US.

The license may be extended to other territories, but to assume that it will without anything directly supporting it is a deductive fallacy.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

and our good friend Todd McFarlane doing the art/concepts.

You'll forgive me if I don't see this as something to put in the plus column. This was tried before with Ultima and ended up with Borgthorn and his Borg minions.

And HD, MMOGs aren't exactly comparable to toothpaste. More clients is not exactly better, nor do they help the game make more money.

In fact I'd bet everything I own in UO (and probably in real life) that if you told a dev team member, especially the client coders that 20 clients are better than 1 that the level of "Are you out of your freaking mind?!?!?" in the response would never be matched in the future of the MMOG world.

Again, let's get the official announcement from the DEVS before we start claiming what is going to happen.

Remember that there WAS going to be a UO2 and an Ultima X at one point in time too.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

oh i c.
lol

I'l wait until an official EA announcement before I get my hopes up.

(Even still, i was just getting to really liking the EC, so having to get into yet a new client will annoy me. I suppose as long as all the UI/Macro functionality is kept, and It still plays isometric, id be ok with it.)

If you ever have to get into a 3D client, you will have to get into a new game altogether.


Also stop saying there will finally be a 3d UO, you may say there will finally be a 3D Ultima all you please, but to assume it will have the same structure as the game we are playing is a foolish leap. Of course it is a foolish leap on most of what you say, and to compare one game to another is just not good common sense.

 

[LordDrago]

There are 2 things keeping me from moving to the EC

#1: Learning curve....I know it is not much, but currently my UO time seems to be quite limited, and want to play as much as I can. The learnig aspect also ties into my second reason in a way

#2: Computer limitations. The EC on my current computer (3 year old laptop) just does not run well. Fighting a drake on the EC on my computer turns the little beastie into the equivalent of a Greater Dragon . And trying to learn the EC while having to deal with stutter steps, lags, etc. was driving me insane (more so than normal).

I do keep the EC patched and have Pincos UI all set up. I am hoping that shortly I will have a better computer to play on, and I will be able to move 100% into the EC. I will, however, miss the look of the CC. Lots and lots of memories in the CC.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

There are 2 things keeping me from moving to the EC

#1: Learning curve....I know it is not much, but currently my UO time seems to be quite limited, and want to play as much as I can. The learnig aspect also ties into my second reason in a way

#2: Computer limitations. The EC on my current computer (3 year old laptop) just does not run well. Fighting a drake on the EC on my computer turns the little beastie into the equivalent of a Greater Dragon . And trying to learn the EC while having to deal with stutter steps, lags, etc. was driving me insane (more so than normal).

I do keep the EC patched and have Pincos UI all set up. I am hoping that shortly I will have a better computer to play on, and I will be able to move 100% into the EC. I will, however, miss the look of the CC. Lots and lots of memories in the CC.

The look and feel is a huge thing for me too, even though I already play the EC 100% of the time. If you are playing a mage the learning curve is an issue (I still have issues with it) but on a dexxer the EC really is wonderful. (once you over come whatever technical issues you seem to be having)

 

[Woodsman]

HD2300 is posting it in multiple threads.

Net dragon are developing, under license, a version of UO. However what he is totally ignoring is the fact that their license only covers China, Hong Kong, Macau and India.

He's also ignoring the fact that after two years, all that they have to show is just a few sentences from taglines and press releases.

...but dont discount the fact that NetDragon is also developing, under license from EA, Dungeon Keeper Online

Dungeon Keeper..Dungeon Keeper...oh yeah, that franchise that EA totally abandoned.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

He's also ignoring the fact that after two years, all that they have to show is just a few sentences from taglines and press releases.

Dungeon Keeper..Dungeon Keeper...oh yeah, that franchise .hat EA totally abandoned.

Don't forget it is also from a studio they completely wiped out with out reason, and I don't know why he keeps getting on this Dungeon keeper thing, to me it actually proves my point. They announced it 2 years ago as asia markets, they announced UO 2 years ago as asia markets, and well One game is releasing the other still looks and sounds the same as the original comment.

 

[Woodsman]

...

and our good friend Todd McFarlane doing the art/concepts.

You'll forgive me if I don't see this as something to put in the plus column. This was tried before with Ultima and ended up with Borgthorn and his Borg minions.

I was being a bit sarcastic about McFarlane although some of the concept art was posted and some of it definitely feels like his work. In EA's defense, McFarlane was brought in by 38 Studios and not EA.

Kingdoms of Amalur has some potential since the Oblivion designer is making the decisions, but should it do well and EA options the MMO and BioWare takes the reins on the MMO side from 38 Studios while they develop non-MMO sequels, BioWare's fantasy MMO stable will be a bit crowded.

Regardless of what happens with Amalur , a part of me gives it 3-5 years before BioWare does something radical with UO and probably Camelot. At some point they will turn their attention to both. Maybe they already have - they've recently, deliberately, removed the Mythic branding from the main page of the Camelot website, and they are behind the Ultima Forever stuff. It would not surprise me if the move from just churning out boosters to working on the graphics, new player stuff, and quest stuff was done within BioWare. Those are all things that could be finished in time for the 15th anniversary and could set the stage for future work.

Now that BioWare has become their own label, some things start to make sense.

 

[Woodsman]

Don't forget it is also from a studio they completely wiped out with out reason, and I don't know why he keeps getting on this Dungeon keeper thing, to me it actually proves my point.

Not to go off topic, but I still don't get why EA was so intent on ending the Dungeon Keeper franchise and just seeing it buried until somebody came along and gave them money. I get that the Harry Potter and Lord of the Ring franchises were worth a lot more, but they could have found money for DK3 at some point, especially when you look at what else EA was churning out at that time and that DK3 had a fanbase.

Then again, this is the company that ended the Wing Commander franchise, and I'm still sometimes surprised that they didn't cancel Ultima IX. Hell, they could have beat EVE Online out the door with a Privateer Online. Now that I think about it, the Wing Commander and Privateer games that were canceled were canceled within a year or two prior to DK3 - EA was intent on obliterating several of its studios

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Not to go off topic, but I still don't get why EA was so intent on ending the Dungeon Keeper franchise and just seeing it buried until somebody came along and gave them money. I get that the Harry Potter and Lord of the Ring franchises were worth a lot more, but they could have found money for DK3 at some point, especially when you look at what else EA was churning out at that time and that DK3 had a fanbase.

Then again, this is the company that ended the Wing Commander franchise, and I'm still sometimes surprised that they didn't cancel Ultima IX. Hell, they could have beat EVE Online out the door with a Privateer Online. Now that I think about it, the Wing Commander and Privateer games that were canceled were canceled within a year or two prior to DK3 - EA was intent on obliterating several of its studios

Yea none of it makes sense to me either, EA does what they want and it hardly ever makes sense. From a business perspective they seem to do the opposite of what would make sense, and from a development stand point, they make one wrong choice and then decide to keep pursuing that choice like people will just warm up to it.

Issue with EA is the people who are making the decisions are not the people who really know the best choice to make in those situations.

O.K. Enough derailing, felt bad posting about the 3D UO stuff anyway.

 

[Woodsman]

Ironic that we are discussing EA wiping out studios when BioWare seems to be wiping out Mythic. But I still feel better now that BioWare has more control over its destiny. Mythic never had that kind of freedom when it ran UO/Camelot, although I wish Mark Jacobs was still around.

And I do think BioWare will do something with UO and Camelot. With UO, the client/server issues keep coming up, so that's a natural issue to arise.

 

[Spiritless]

Blah, these threads are so stupid.. since they basically boil down to comparing two pieces of turd and arguing over which piece stinks less.

Both clients are bad and can't compete in today's MMO market. End of, really. In my opinion 2D sucks slightly less, but it's still awful considering the time they've had since UO's release to actually make it polished.

Ho-hum.

 

[Triberius]

I get that the Harry Potter and Lord of the Ring franchises were worth a lot more, but they could have found money for DK3 at some point, especially when you look at what else EA was churning out at that time and that DK3 had a fanbase.

Yea but I seriously doubt you see EA get rights to a Harry Potter MMO just like they didn't for Lord of the Rings Online... Warner Brothers approached SOE about a HP MMO a few years ago and couldn't work out a deal, shortly after Warner Brothers bought Turbine who as you may or may not know runs DDO and LOTRO. My odds are on if HP Franchise was to be made into a MMO, WB would keep it in house and hand it to Turbine to develop and run.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Ironic that we are discussing EA wiping out studios when BioWare seems to be wiping out Mythic. But I still feel better now that BioWare has more control over its destiny. Mythic never had that kind of freedom when it ran UO/Camelot, although I wish Mark Jacobs was still around.

And I do think BioWare will do something with UO and Camelot. With UO, the client/server issues keep coming up, so that's a natural issue to arise.

Mythic ceased to exist when BioWare was acquired as far as I am concerned. That is normal Business for EA, if it is EA driven or BioWare driven does not matter much to me, since it was destined to happen anyhow.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Yea but I seriously doubt you see EA get rights to a Harry Potter MMO just like they didn't for Lord of the Rings Online... Warner Brothers approached SOE about a HP MMO a few years ago and couldn't work out a deal, shortly after Warner Brothers bought Turbine who as you may or may not know runs DDO and LOTRO. My odds are on if HP Franchise was to be made into a MMO, WB would keep it in house and hand it to Turbine to develop and run.

I think his point was that EA did put out games for both of those movies, and so they ditched a few of their other IPs and studios to focus on those games. Nothing really to do with MMOs in general but more of EAs business sense.

 

[Woodsman]

I think his point was that EA did put out games for both of those movies, and so they ditched a few of their other IPs and studios to focus on those games. Nothing really to do with MMOs in general but more of EAs business sense.

Yeah, EA put out games for both movies and put a lot of resources into them and the cross-platform stuff.

EA actually had the rights to a Harry Potter MMO, and it was supposed to be done under Origin, to throw more irony in the mix.

IGN still has some stuff archived

As we previously reported, Electronic Arts-based Origin Systems will develop an online game based – a la Ultima Online – in the world of Harry Potter. The first pictures from the game have arrived on the net via the Liquid Development's website. Origin Systems approached the game developer to help with HP Online. Liquid was responsible for designing, storyboarding, modeling and texturing the game's main characters.

Gamespy as well

EA Dot Bomb

Officially, Privateer Online, Harry Potter Online, and Ultima Online 2 were cancelled in order to enhance Origin's focus on Ultima Online, which was, and still is, EA's flagship online game property. But EA's true pride and joy was to be EA.com. Think MSN's The Zone, but better. Well, that's what the plan was.

EA.com was to showcase a variety of online games, both Java and PC-based including multiplayer and massively multiplayer. Several games were available for free, however, subscription to its platinum service would include such titles as the highly anticipated Majestic, and later BattleTech 3025 and Motor City Online pending their release. Platinum accounts did not include Ultima Online access, however.

EA.com featured quite a number of games from its other online game company acquisition: Pogo.com. Pogo.com was a hot online gaming property and was extremely popular amongst casual gamers who would like to spend their lunch breaks or avoid real work by playing the games they developed. EA took a huge risk in this venture, eventually firing around 200 people, many of who worked either at Origin on Ultima Online 2 or at Kesmai.

If EA could have seen how big Harry Potter was going to be, they might have let Origin do Harry Potter Online. Everybody knew it was big, but I doubt they could have guessed the franchise as a whole was going to be worth like $20 billion.

 

[HD2300]

Re: EC vs 2D vs 3D

...but dont discount the fact that NetDragon is also developing, under license from EA, Dungeon Keeper Online, which was initially announced 2 years ago for release only in China, Hong Kong, Macau and India, but now is going to be released in the US.

The license may be extended to other territories, but to assume that it will without anything directly supporting it is a deductive fallacy.

I know EA likes to make money, and its a no brainer that a 3D UO will make many many multiples more profit worldwide than only a 2D UO. EA exes will make the decision that will make EA more profit, because their own bonuses will be bigger.

NetDragon/EA's Dungeon Keeper Online now released worldwide when initially it wasnt -> NetDragon/EA's UO 3D will be released worldwide too.

Blah, these threads are so stupid.. since they basically boil down to comparing two pieces of turd and arguing over which piece stinks less.

Both clients are bad and can't compete in today's MMO market. End of, really . In my opinion 2D sucks slightly less, but it's still awful considering the time they've had since UO's release to actually make it polished.

Ho-hum.

Exactly. The future is not 2D. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig. It is hilarious posters arguing that one 2D turd is better than another 2D turd. Neither turd will bring in new players. If you want UO to have a brighter future, there is no debate, the future is 3D UO, which will be released in 2012.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Just because a storyline is popular doesn't mean it works well for an MMOG, and as well crafted as Harry Potter is, storylinewise, it's very narrow compared to other MMOGs that have been able to establish themselves based on an existing storyline. Ultima having had quite a long past and framework of its own world, Star Wars having the films which by themselves are fairly narrow like HP, but then throw in all the expanded universe stuff, WoW having its own established world like Ultima thus plenty of room to work with, and LotRo having the very well fleshed out world of Tolkein.

Not sure how someone would expand HP enough to make it a working MMOG.

But then HP may now be a lot like the Star Wars name in that you slap in on just about anything and you're fairly well guaranteed big sales numbers, so who knows.

Ya a little off topic, just addressing the stance that I don't think HPO would have been or would be a successful MMOG even if the story itself is.

 

[Dermott of LS]

Re: EC vs 2D vs 3D

...

which will be released in 2012.

Which you do not know will even happen.

There's a HUUUUGE world of difference between "expected to be" as stated in the sig image and "will be" as you claim.

 

[HD2300]

I think his point was that EA did put out games for both of those movies, and so they ditched a few of their other IPs and studios to focus on those games. Nothing really to do with MMOs in general but more of EAs business sense.

This is why NetDragon/EA's Dungeon Keeper Online is now being released worldwide when initially it wasnt announced. EA likes to make money.

The fact that EA likes to make money and EA execs like bigger bonuses will also mean NetDragon/EA's UO 3D will be released worldwide too.

The future is NetDragon/EA's UO 3D, not 2D clients that have already proven they cannot bring in new players.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Re: EC vs 2D vs 3D

...but dont discount the fact that NetDragon is also developing, under license from EA, Dungeon Keeper Online, which was initially announced 2 years ago for release only in China, Hong Kong, Macau and India, but now is going to be released in the US.

The license may be extended to other territories, but to assume that it will without anything directly supporting it is a deductive fallacy.

I know EA likes to make money, and its a no brainer that a 3D UO will make many many multiples more profit worldwide than only a 2D UO. EA exes will make the decision that will make EA more profit, because their own bonuses will be bigger.

NetDragon/EA's Dungeon Keeper Online now released worldwide when initially it wasnt -> NetDragon/EA's UO 3D will be released worldwide too.

Even your logic is flawed here lol. We just explained how EA let go of 3-4 Studios and all their games Despite the fact that all those games were still profitable and the studios had plans to continue in that direction, but instead they took them down and invested elsewhere which earned them nothing. Stop assuming you know anything at all when in fact you know nothing, it even appears you know less than the common knowledge let alone the future plans of anything.


lmfao, oh man And to go a step further my wife just whined about the possibility of UO not being 2d anymore. lol.

 

[Ender]

Re: EC vs 2D vs 3D

HD2300, I don't think you know anywhere near as much as you think you do here.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

This is why NetDragon/EA's Dungeon Keeper Online is now being released worldwide when initially it wasnt announced. EA likes to make money.

The fact that EA likes to make money and EA execs like bigger bonuses will also mean NetDragon/EA's UO 3D will be released worldwide too.

The future is NetDragon/EA's UO 3D, not 2D clients that have already proven they cannot bring in new players.

You do know that it is not a 2D/3D issue when it comes to new players don't you? I can only assume you don't. I agree the current clients can't do squat, but you assume to know something no one else here assumes. If the game looks and plays good, the fact that you cant turn the screen is not going to be a big deal.

Assuming all games should follow WoW is ludicrous, Netdragons largest revenue comes from isometric games with a tile based environment, yet you are going to say that a 3D game will guarantee better profits.

Also your comment about EA liking to make money, So far all their market analysis have been wrong and each game put out by the studios has been a failure (I guess it depends how you define that word) Sure their single player games are doing decently, and EA sports well...it is hard to mess up a sports game. Do you assume it is the studios making these mistakes? If you do you would be wrong, EA has had control over everything. I agree with Woodsman about one thing, Bioware being its own label now is looking good compared to it having stayed a studio, I might be inclined to agree with you if EA was not pushing in a different direction than you are stating.

If a game that was to Take away all of UO's players was coming in a years time, then they would not be migrating info over to origin.com, they would not be doing any updates on UO at all, fiction would progress much slower, if at all. there are a few other signs of this game not going anywhere, and don't try to lean in on the fact that it will just be a new client, because no 3D client developed by anyone will work with UO as we play it today.

Eventually (if ever) there is proof of any type of Ultima game in 3D (notice my use of Ultima and not UO) then I might be convinced it will be release in Hong Kong and other asia markets, but currently considering the rate at which netdragon pumps out games and info on them, 3D Ultima isn't happening, and I highly suspect it would be nothing like UO as we play it, so doesn't matter to me either way.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

This is why NetDragon/EA's Dungeon Keeper Online is now being released worldwide when initially it wasnt announced. EA likes to make money.

The fact that EA likes to make money and EA execs like bigger bonuses will also mean NetDragon/EA's UO 3D will be released worldwide too.

The future is NetDragon/EA's UO 3D, not 2D clients that have already proven they cannot bring in new players.

Presently, this is wishful thinking, nothing more.

NetDragon's UO has been vaporware for 2+ years, not even a lousy screenshot has been released to whet anyone's appetite. When and IF this product ever materializes will the majority current UO players care.

While 3D is the future, it has to actually exist beyond two measly lines of text.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

If a 3d version of UO is released and it looks good, plays well, and retains what makes Ultima... well... Ultima, THEN I'll hop on board. But if ANY game name in the MMOG world should lead towards skepticism and wariness towards future "releases" it's Ultima. Two cancelled sequels, at least 2 cancelled new clients for UO itself (not including Third Dawn, KR, or EC), and who knows what else in the meantime that we DIDN'T hear about either by press release, rumour, or otherwise.

In other words, statements about future Ultima releases that DON'T come from Cal or any current UO Dev (assuming turnover, consider "current" to be whomever is on the team at the time) should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt... and sometimes those coming from the current dev team need a grain or two as well

 

[Ender]

You do know that it is not a 2D/3D issue when it comes to new players don't you? I can only assume you don't. I agree the current clients can't do squat, but you assume to know something no one else here assumes. If the game looks and plays good, the fact that you cant turn the screen is not going to be a big deal.

Definitely.

Isometric view or full 3D, doesn't matter. If the game is good and the word is spread, people will play it.

Torchlight is an isometric RPG from a small dev team inspired by Diablo, it's sold a million copies and apparently pirated much, much more than that. Diablo III will sell incredibly well and it's isometric. Terraria is a 2D game with SNES-era graphics and it's had over ten thousand players at once today, and that's only counting those playing it on Steam. I remember a while back it had around fifty thousand players at one time on Steam alone.

If UO looked slightly better but kept the isometric view and its gameplay, and it's advertised and made more widely available, you'll have people at least trying the game out.

 

[HD2300]

While 3D is the future...

Many of you have acknowledged it already, 3D is the future, and 2D is holding UO back. This is why the UO community should be pushing hard for a 3D client. Remember 2D is just 3D at a fixed angle. In the last 4 years the new 2D clients have proven that they cant bring in new players. Whats the point of polishing a turd if it still will be a turd.

I guess for whatever reason some people will keep hyping 2D, and yes the EC is 2D, but turds will not bring in new players.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Remember 2D is just 3D at a fixed angle.

Uhm...No. Not even close.

2D = sprite based (CC and EC)

3D = texture covered polygons (WoW, Aion, Rift, etc.)

NEITHER (current) client runs as full 3D. The ONLY 3D aspect of the EC is the terrain, the rest is all sprites crudely tacked on to a single invisible polygons.

The only 3D client we've had was Third Dawn, though even it was bastardized. Textured 3D character and mob models in a world of static sprites.

Full 3D, whether the camera is locked into an isometric view or not, is completely different from 2D.


'Pushing hard' won't get us anywhere. How long have we been 'pushing hard' for the studio du jour to curtail scripting and speed hacking? How long have PvPers been 'pushing hard' for factions to be fixed?

 

[Woodsman]

Many of us would like a 3D client, but none of us believes that hanging our hopes on a couple of sentences from a 3rd party press release or financial report tagline, or a completely different franchise that EA killed off 10 years ago, is going to do anything.

HD2300, your dream UO 3D version from NetDragon will not be compatible with our UO, it's a completely different engine both on the client and server side, it's cartoony as hell and let me tell you something, if you want to end the UO franchise really quick, just replace the UO we have right now with a ****ing cartoony Ultima game based on the cartoony-looking Dungeon Keeper Online. Origin.com would crash from CC and EC users bailing on a cartoony looking 3D UO.

Our best bet here in the land of reality is that the EC graphics update looks passable, and that enough other stuff is cleaned up including the website, new player, and quest stuff, that UO is somewhat presentable as it heads into the 15th anniversary. It'll get a big boost in PR thanks to the anniversary and all of the MMO sites singing it's early praises and writing nostalgia pieces, and maybe it'll get a bump in players looking for some nostalgia.

At that point, we can hope that BioWare decides to do something more.

 

[Woodsman]

'Pushing hard' won't get us anywhere. How long have we been 'pushing hard' for the studio du jour to curtail scripting and speed hacking? How long have PvPers been 'pushing hard' for factions to be fixed?

That too. It'll come down to what BioWare wants to do.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Many of you have acknowledged it already, 3D is the future, and 2D is holding UO back. This is why the UO community should be pushing hard for a 3D client. Remember 2D is just 3D at a fixed angle. In the last 4 years the new 2D clients have proven that they cant bring in new players. Whats the point of polishing a turd if it still will be a turd.

I guess for whatever reason some people will keep hyping 2D, and yes the EC is 2D, but turds will not bring in new players.

See I can mostly agree with this post. Only thing I do not fully agree with is the concept that it is the clients that are failing to bring new players.

UO exists almost entirely on word of mouth or returning players, very few new players come along from their own merits because there is no reason for them to (I.E. lack of advertising.)

Second problem, if said new player wanted to learn about UO before playing it, they have a limited number of options and most of which will point out that the game is not polished (I.E. bugs and cheating, and I am not even talking about the huge amount of conjecture that goes on on the forums, I am talking about the Developers actually admitting to these things.)

I am all about what works, and while I agree both of the current clients are just terrible examples of what the developers can do (or any developers for that matter) I have to take the opinion that the only way anyone will ever be playing a 3D version at current is if it is a new game entirely, and it would most likely not hold true to what "we" as Ultima Online fans (not as Ultima fans, because the lore has nothing to do with what I am talking about) Believe is Ultima Online, the vastness that is our world.

The things I have said are not impossible, just unlikely. And your push for something that is not only unrealistic but with out any evidence is the only bothersome part. If you want to campaign for support to get an Ultima Online 3D game in the works, then go for it I have nothing against 3D (although the concept does not sound perfect in my honest opinion, but hey I would have to see what people came up with before I judge.) But to claim things that are not fact as fact is just wrong, and I do not mean it as you are wrong I mean it is morally wrong.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Many of us would like a 3D client, but none of us believes that hanging our hopes on a couple of sentences from a 3rd party press release or financial report tagline, or a completely different franchise that EA killed off 10 years ago, is going to do anything.

HD2300, your dream UO 3D version from NetDragon will not be compatible with our UO, it's a completely different engine both on the client and server side, it's cartoony as hell and let me tell you something, if you want to end the UO franchise really quick, just replace the UO we have right now with a ****ing cartoony Ultima game based on the cartoony-looking Dungeon Keeper Online. Origin.com would crash from CC and EC users bailing on a cartoony looking 3D UO.

Our best bet here in the land of reality is that the EC graphics update looks passable, and that enough other stuff is cleaned up including the website, new player, and quest stuff, that UO is somewhat presentable as it heads into the 15th anniversary. It'll get a big boost in PR thanks to the anniversary and all of the MMO sites singing it's early praises and writing nostalgia pieces, and maybe it'll get a bump in players looking for some nostalgia.

At that point, we can hope that BioWare decides to do something more.

Technically the EC can be formatted to run with 100% 3D in an isometric view, in fact the whole fact that it does not is part of the clients problem to begin with. I think the real thing to hope or bet on would be that they move in this direction, along with fixing/redoing the server code so that the EC can eventually run as it is suppose to.

Slight off-topic issue, wasn't KR's original style full 3d with an isometric perspective and they eventually changed it to be more 2D like to please the nay-sayers? I know the art work over all was just different, but you are not going to get the same sprite artwork when you deal with 3D imaging, just not going to happen. (although I guess they could have done a better job. and I still to this day hate the KR/EC paperdoll art, but that has to do with letting artists put their own style/spin on things.)

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I don't know if KR was ever going to be full 3d, only the 2.5d hybrid that it was. What WAS part of the original vision for KR was that the new SA area would be completely NON-tile based (thus incompatible with the 2d client) and have quite a few features due to the Gamebryo engine (most likely weather and terrain effects, particle effects, etc).

 

[HD2300]

But to claim things that are not fact as fact is just wrong, and I do not mean it as you are wrong I mean it is morally wrong.

What is morally wrong? To hype crap like the Classic shard and anti-cheating. To hype the EC graphics updates as the best thing since sliced bread, especially if it turns out to be another turd.

I 100% believe that UO 3D will be released before all the EC graphics updates ever get finished, if ever.

2D is holding UO back. 3D is the future.