Drags a bag of monkey wrenches ..

[Guest]

Neutral to flaming hair. Seems a bit silly IMO.
YES to stopping vendor banking. Also really tired of FINALLY running across a non-Luna house with tons of vendors only to discover they are all BOD storage.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>

Well, there is a way around that. you can buy bods from your vendor. It will put the gold in the vendors purse.

I have nearly 20 mil on mine and I can put as much gold as I want in it. There is an top limit of gold that a vendor can hold. I can't remember the gold cap but it is there.

[/ QUOTE ]

you need to come up to speed ...
the idea .. of and for the cap ... came up when JC, in the linked thread ... mentioned that particular method ...

you could still use it ... but if the cap goes into place ... you could only use it to reach the cap ...
NOT pass it ...

but,
Thanks for the bump ... gives me an opportunity to refine it ...

point one
there is too much gp ingame

point two
the flow of gp in, significantly exceeds all existing voluntary "drains"

point three
for all other items ingame ...there is a defineable "limit"
Except for gp

point four
Bods, as noted in first thread, but again for emphasis: Were given a "pass" or expansion of original limits
(books can be used to make 5 bods count for 1, can be stored on vendors at NO cost in gp, OR as lockdowns, limited only by vendor item limit)
GP was not given a "pass" or expansion of original limits

point five
GP was originally intended to be removed from the vendor on a reqular basis
KB(pertinent part)
Vendors are not intended to be used as banks. Be sure to collect your gold regularly and deposit it into your bank box.


now ..
point one is the primary target
If there's too much gp ingame ... Where is it? and How did it get there and Whats the simplest fairest way of removing it.
It is extremely likely ... since it is NOT being accounted for in an item count manner ... not even at a 5to1 ratio like bods ...
that it is on vendors.
The ONLY actual number, that you admit to not knowing, about what the "GP Limit" on vendors is/maybe, has only once been stated as being 2Billion (2,000,000,000)
... that is unverified and hasn't been seconded ... not going to bother a dev for it ... 2B is WAY too much ... and I SUSPECT actually a "low-ball" guess ..
IE. very likely higher, per each vendor, vendor only need store the one NUMBER ...it doesn't have a weight, it only counts as one number ... no matter how big it is:
2B is too big.
It got on the vendors, due to unenforcement, through convenience and ease and "custom" (your case in point)

My "idea" ... that the existing design parameter, by being enforced with a negotiable cap; IS the simplest fairest way of removing it.
By FIRST getting all the cards(checks) on the table(in the game accounted as 1 item per million check)
which leaves it to the player to decide what to do with it ...
The player is used to NOT having to make decisions based on the count ... well ... here we are.



.erk

minor up date ...
There WAS a "second" guess hazarded about the 2B number ...(by cogniac)
depending on language and bytes allowed FOR the storage of the one number ...
well

the maximum limit for the one number ... *sob* isn't smaller(dev would know... I AIN'T asking)

 

[Connor_Graham]

Ok, I just got done testing this issue with the vendors refusing gold on all 6 of my vendors, and these are the results using the same 30 gold, AND on a character that does not have the combat timer on (which doesn't seem to make any difference):

Vendor 1- Paid for 99 Days: Refused gold
Vendor 2- Paid for 21 Days: Accepted gold
Vendor 3- Paid for 154 Days: Accepted gold
Vendor 4- Paid for 54 Days: Accepted gold
Vendor 5- Paid for 500 Days: Refused gold
Vendor 6- Paid for 50 Days: Refused gold

I'm not seeing any kind of pattern here, are you?

 

[Connor_Graham]

<blockquote><hr>

Connor, are you accounting for the stock the vendors have? Is the one that refused stocked more, or less, or simply differently than the others... this sounds like some sort of weird bug, which may bear it's own investgation... but that's just me...

maybe send your findings in as Feedback, or PM a dev?

[/ QUOTE ]

All of the vendors are stocked with items that are unique to each vendor.

 

[imported_Electrolyte]

It seems highly unlikely, but do you think something the vendors are stocked with, or a combination of the stocks, could be causing them to not accept gold?

maybe create a set of test vendors, all dressed alike and with identical stocks... give them each different amounts of starting gold, and see if the problem can be reproduced...

if you find anything out about it make sure to let me know, I am just really curious now

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Vendor 2- Paid for 21 Days: Accepted gold...~~50k
Vendor 6- Paid for 50 Days: Refused gold
Vendor 4- Paid for 54 Days: Accepted gold
Vendor 1- Paid for 99 Days: Refused gold...~~??150k
Vendor 3- Paid for 154 Days: Accepted gold ....~~200k
Vendor 5- Paid for 500 Days: Refused gold

Well ... no pattern as far as "days" being a "cut-off" point.
Closest match from numbers before (...~~) no pattern

another possibility ... though not clear as to how/why ... from the KB:
Vendors only take payment from the gold in their account, which you give them directly(gold you drop on them/not in pack), or from the "Gold held for you" if their account drops to 0. (Vendors will not take gold from your bank to pay themselves.)

gold in their account
"Gold held for you"

hummmm ... "Gold held for you" has not been accounted ... IF thats what is causing it(refusing gold) ... thats where a pattern would emerge (If it were a "cap")

not too likely that you're "using them as banks" though ... but "not likely" is not: "eliminated" ... though ... STILL leaning towards "just bugged" (now that the combat timer is pretty well eliminated)

Welp, there it is ... IF the gold held for you "is the cause" ...easy to see where the "breakpoint is" ... well ... easy to narrow "where" it might be ...
ALL "accepted gold" would be below the mark ... ALL "rejected gold" would be above it ...
and
Like the days paid for and vendor account quantities ... 1 low refusing or 1 high accepting ... just about clinches "just bugged"

No real bene from looking at stock for sale ... Its the vendors actions (as far as accounting) thats in question ... NOT the stock ...

 

[Connor_Graham]

"not too likely that you're "using them as banks" though ... but "not likely" is not: "eliminated" ... though "

The one at 500 days has 13mil on it because it's my artifact vendor and I sold a couple of high end artifacts yesterday morning and just haven't figured out which character to dump it on yet. Most of my gold is sitting in Connor's bank box.

"STILL leaning towards "just bugged" (now that the combat timer is pretty well eliminated)"

That would mean that half of the vendors are bugged. I'd think that would be a stretch for it to happen to 3 at once when we've never even seen this before, and I've placed a lot of vendors over 3 years. I'm sure the rest you and the others involved in this conversation have too. One, yeah I could go for it being bugged, but half of the current vendor staff being bugged would put even the Evil Lord RNG to shame. Not saying it couldn't happen, I've seen stranger things, but for half to be bugged there's got to be something weird happening with the coding on this one.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Aye ... it would mean that half are bugged ...
first though ... it shows that there is NO "Fayled cap idea in place" ... (I can "*whew*" again.)

Vendors being bugged ... whole different set of possibilities open up ...
time of placement ... PLACE of placement ...actions occuring before during and after (like customizing vendor/house ... one before the other .. during ... after)
order of placement, facing of original placement, Sex of vendors, items "customized" on vendor (gumps/clothing)
Time of placement(day/night) ... combinations of above ... something I couldn't think of off the top of my head ...
Something as bizzare as "alphabetical" priorities in their random name generation ("D", fine in a corner ... goes wonky when next to but not between a "Pair of A's")

Just saying ... plenty of possibles for the vendors being bugged ...

"Fixing" remains as simple as
Drop and replace the "suspects"
All good?
yes?
3 bugged vendors gone ... another mystery for the books

No? (not all good/normal as expected)
THEN can start trying to figure why ...

not me, not interested in that ...

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

rtlfc

*still laughing at flutters post*

RE: vendors, one question... why?

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>

RE: vendors, one question... why?

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm ... for a post from ME ...this thread has been pretty clear ... on the "why?" part ...
I thought the "points list" exceptionally so ... but
if ya missed it ... its still there ...

Instead of a "why not?" reply ... how about two questions:

Is there too much GP ingame ?
Where is it ?


........

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'm certainly not going to drop them unless it continues to give me problems when they get lower on gold. It's too much of a PITA to restock them all over again.

I can't help but wonder if the recent changes to NPC vendors may have inadvertantly messed with the code for player vendors....

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

Is there too much GP ingame ?
Where is it ?

[/ QUOTE ]

The answer to the first question would depend greatly on the player.

Imo, the rl cost of gold per mil has always had too much impact on what the in game economy is doing. The prices of items are riddiculously high but so is the amount of gold players have accumulated since publish 16 (powerscrolls and runics) and AOS which wasn't far after.

The answer to the second question would depend greatly on the player.

Maybe it would have been better if you had just said that you think there is too much gold in the game, on vendors. But again I don't see how it's much concern to you which is why I ask why. Maybe I should have asked, why does it concern you?

 

[Basara]

Connor, it's easy to reset vendors, if you know the trick....

You can move stuff BETWEEN VENDORS without having to reprice the items.

You can even do it between vendors in different houses, it they both belong to the same account! I have two houses, with vendors, and in both cases the larger plot opened up next door, so I placed the new house, built it, added the new vendors, then brought an old vendor and new vendor (one from each house) into the space between them (have to be 5 or less away, on each side of you) then transferred items between them, before doing the rest of my contents move, and dropping the older house (if they are more than 5 away, set up vendors in house to "fire brigade" items to within that range).

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

The answer to the first question would depend greatly on the player.
<font color=blue>Nice dodge ... but the question WAS directly to you ... restated: do You think there is too much gp ingame ... a request for Your Opinion ... so yeah, STILL depends on the player ... in this case you</font color=blue>

Imo, the rl cost of gold per mil has always had too much impact on what the in game economy is doing. The prices of items are riddiculously high but so is the amount of gold players have accumulated since publish 16 (powerscrolls and runics) and AOS which wasn't far after.
<font color=blue>(and, baring a "sweeping system change" rl cost of gold per mil Will STILL have impact ingame ... not targeting that specifically ... but acknowlegeing that there maybe ingame fallout that impacts the rl value that impacts the ingame gathering ... *whew* the "wheel will keep on turning" ... regardless of "opinion" )</font color=blue>

The answer to the second question would depend greatly on the player.

<font color=blue>Not so good a dodge ... was quite very direct ... where is it ... could have dodged it ... entirely IF question one had been answered NO ...</font color=blue>

Maybe it would have been better if you had just said that you think there is too much gold in the game, on vendors. But again I don't see how it's much concern to you which is why I ask why. Maybe I should have asked, why does it concern you?

since the remaining is ME ... no need for the<font color=blue>blue</font color=blue> ...

...
I DID say that I think there is too much gp ingame AND that it is being stored on vendors.
That you can't see that too much gp ingame can be a problem for anyone ...

Much less a concern for just one(me in this case) ...

well ... 'not knowing' Why? ... is what I'm left to address.

IF the economy is going to be addressed ...NEED a lot of 'knowing' of a Lot of different things ...
I chose to begin with: just "where is it" ...not who or how or why

just "where is it" ... from there: can we touch it? control it? affect it in any way? ...
then we can start playing around with the next steps: if this then? how about that... then?


pretty basic

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

Nice dodge ... but the question WAS directly to you ... restated: do You think there is too much gp ingame ... a request for Your Opinion ... so yeah, STILL depends on the player ... in this case you

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, haha, not intending to dodge. Having seen your reply in another thread just reminded me about this one and came looking for it I did!
When you asked you said "Is there too much gold in the game?" not "Do YOU think there is too much gold in the game?" Making me think you were being rhetorical to an extent that you weren't specifically asking me as you had already made up your mind.

But anyway to avoid further waffle!... Yes I do but I think a vast majority of it is tied up with the kinds of items people buy/sell/trade. Most of the people I know in game are pvpers and are generally item rich rather than cash rich.

<blockquote><hr>

Not so good a dodge ... was quite very direct ... where is it ... could have dodged it ... entirely IF question one had been answered NO ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, not intending to dodge, despite all of your emphasising I find it hard to judge your tone.

As for "Where is it?"... Amongst most pvpers I would say their items (people spend riddiculous amounts on weapons). Or mine specifically is probably an unbalanced mixture of both cash and items. I have a vendor in my house for the exact purpose of being used as a bank for all my characters. I wasn't sure how allowed it was to do so but I did page a GM once and ask and they didn't seem to care - I think the reason I paged one day was because there was a lot of bannings happening about people using vendors for extra house storage - this was years ago. Despite using a vendor as a bank the gold I have on it never exceeds 1m, I usually take some out when I'm rebuilding a character and need to buy a CBD to bless a HOM or Totem or Crimson or something.

On the whole issue of money in game I think it's fine, I don't see why people keep jumping on Uhall (not you but previous posts I've seen) and claiming the end of UO unless we have a gold sink of some sort. The devs posted something about the balance of gold coming in and out of the game once (possibly on a FoF) and them bringing it up to me suggests that their at least monitoring it. I'm happy for them to monitor it.

I hope thats answer enough, if not too much!

 

[Redxpanda]

I have always been one of those against cheaters but considering the slap on the wrist they are getting for a first offense these days, i have lost hope. The whole marking cheaters thing goes against the whole discretion thing. Besides, why should cheaters be given a second chance? It's none of our concern (and shouldn't be) if they are dealt with properly and swiftly. Problem is, these cheaters are paying customers and EA has decided that some of them should get a second chance to play fair for reasons that i can only imagine are financial.

In the process, other players have seen this lack of discipline and decided that to level the playing field, they should join the cheaters. Unassisted Macroing is now so common that people feel like they are foolish for not doing it.

If i was in control:

1st offense = 10-30 day suspension pending permanent ban. In order to regain access to your account you would have to state (in writing) why you were doing it and why you didnt answer when the GM called. Your letter will be reviewed and your fate will be voted on by a board.

2nd Offense = Permanent Ban no review.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

rtlfc

With the flaming hair thing... is that just for unattended skill macroers or any/all offenses?

Maybe it's just me but I don't think theres many unattended macroers for skills, reasons being for a start soulstones. On the whole there must since the creation of soulstones and frags be less skills needing to be worked. As people store them rather than drop them/delete chars. It's actually not worth deleteing characters now mainly due to power/stat scrolls used. The only purpose to deleteing a character would be to change the name without buying a token. Even the old use of using those 50 starting points somewhere isn't really viable when you can buy most things to 40 in haven then get free alacrity gains until 50.
Also this is probably the easiest era of skill gain UO has ever had. Many skills take 30 minutes - 2 hours to GM and a further 3-4 hours to 120. Most skills you don't need to move for, many also have 2-3 ways of gaining them. On top of that mana based skills are easier to do with all the regen forms/items available.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

just for unattended skill macroers or any/all offenses ...

Well... inspired by a thread about unattended ... Unattended is the key word ...
not what they were doing WHILE unattended
just the being unattended (caught in violation of a rule unattended)...

so yeah, sure why not? any/all offenses
"all" it really accomplishes is a visual indication that "something" was done, to an account/char ... for some rule infraction
Before Draconis house burnings ... well ... name one other "visual" indication that something had been done ?
mass bannings? poof! their gone ... meh ...visual granted ... but ...
Perception wise ... what was left behind?
"GMs don't DO nothing ... paged and paged and 'es still there ... paged and got a canned message.. looking into it

everyone is doing x,y,z ... I might as well too ... gone to the scritters .... better a scritter than a victum

"
not that burning hair will change that ... already seen one set of responses ... there in the Draconi you da man! thread ... "too little too late ... didn't get them all... already back in the game on an alt account ... how come that publicity stunt and not what REALLY matters ... issue 4.71.a.245 ... been around for ages ...

"


"all" it really accomplishes is a visual indication that "something" was done, to an account/char ... for some rule infraction ...
not a "slow down ease up second second seconded chance to keep screwing the game up" ... not a "easing of punishment" ... actually ... would be an INCREASE in effect at the mid levels ... if fairly looked at.
.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

On the "vendor" question ...heh!
I'm getting the impression that you really don't get it ... no slight to you ...and
from your description ... will not actually cause you hardship if implemented.

You wrote:

"As for "Where is it?"... Amongst most pvpers I would say their items (people spend riddiculous amounts on weapons). Or mine specifically is probably an unbalanced mixture of both cash and items. I have a vendor in my house for the exact purpose of being used as a bank for all my characters. I wasn't sure how allowed it was to do so but I did page a GM once and ask and they didn't seem to care - I think the reason I paged one day was because there was a lot of bannings happening about people using vendors for extra house storage - this was years ago. Despite using a vendor as a bank the gold I have on it never exceeds 1m, I usually take some out when I'm rebuilding a character and need to buy a CBD to bless a HOM or Totem or Crimson or something."

See? you could easily adapt to a cap ... by storing 1million gp checks in the house ... central easy access for all your chars ...*dusts hands*

In fact ... you might be easy to recruit to the "cause" ... each of your PvP items ... count as 1 item each ... yes?
shouldn't it be the same for 1millio checks? 1 item count each?
the provision (currently un-enforced ... hence the idea for a "cap") exists in the KB:
"Vendors are not intended to be used as banks. Be sure to collect your gold regularly and deposit it into your bank box."

yep! bods got a pass ...can be stored on a vendor at a 5/1 count reduction ...
Reduction NOT a "total pass" for the items count ... LIKE GP currently IS.

Granted ... WHOLE lotta shuffling gonna be a going on ... IF the cap is ... mmm ... re-inforced

and since you have only expressed a general unconcern ... and won't necessarily be adversly affected by it ...

I'm gonna count you as a yes ...

gonna need to present a real good reason ... to change you to a NO ...

thx

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

Well with my own vendor/bank in my house I just use it for throwing the odd bit of gold on when I go to log out... soon builds up! However it can't go over 1m anyway just from dropping gold on it.

 

[imported_Electrolyte]

<blockquote><hr>

Well with my own vendor/bank in my house I just use it for throwing the odd bit of gold on when I go to log out... soon builds up! However it can't go over 1m anyway just from dropping gold on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It can't? I thought that that was half the whole point of this thread... So you really can't drop more than. 1mil on a vendor?

That sounds off to me... Did I misunderstand the post??

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

*shrugs* maybe ya can't drop that much gp
but ...
No ... THAT wasn't(isn't) the point(of this thread) ... coin being stored piece by piece
the cap was inspired when in the "inspirational thread"(linked, this thread, first post)

JCthebuilder was answering THAT requester ... that paying by check WAS/is unnecessary ...
simpler, for mass quantities of gp, to buy a bods from your vendor ...

k?

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Vendors being paid with checks : will look into this

From the notes provided from the townhall feed ...
Hmmm
and them pushing the "feedback" form quite a bit ...

JUST so happen to have some ground work done ...
for their consideration

point one
there is too much gp ingame

point two
the flow of gp in, significantly exceeds all existing voluntary "drains"

point three
for all other items ingame ...there is a defineable "limit"
Except for gp

point four
Bods, as noted in first thread, but again for emphasis: Were given a "pass" or expansion of original limits
(books can be used to make 5 bods count for 1, can be stored on vendors at NO cost in gp, OR as lockdowns, limited only by vendor item limit)
GP was not given a "pass" or expansion of original limits

point five
GP was originally intended to be removed from the vendor on a reqular basis
KB(pertinent part)
Vendors are not intended to be used as banks. Be sure to collect your gold regularly and deposit it into your bank box.

REoint two
existing voluntary "drains" ...paying the VENDOR side of the books ..*shrugs* no problem
AS LONG AS THE VENDOR does not REFUND his fees ... that would be a drain ...

perfectly acceptable, keeps that bit of figuring of how Much to pay ... ON the player ...
where it ought to be. ...Player falls short, yoink, starts draining on the amount held for the player ...(that would also be a drain ... yes?

)


Your:Fayled Dhreams
Fiat justitia, ruat coelum

Save UO - Save the cheerleaders<font color=red> ... </font color=red>(AesSedai 10/31/07)