doing the right thing

[Lord Richard]

I for one am glad to see that poster/players here are just as passionate about the bot runners/scriptors as they are about PvP and nerfing the thieves.
I'm sorry if the so called ROC in the game prohibit the intentional luring of creatures to where an unattended player is, but after all, they are un attended in the biggest sense of the word, and may not even be in the same building while their character is doing it's dirty deed. The casual investigator would be able to make a character on any shard and most likely, there would be same said pc standing in the same place in game doing the same thing.....
We as players should be able to, as concientious citizens of the shard, be able to put these players in check, and on notice that we will not permit the wanton exploitation of our game for profit. This game was brought to the public to be a form of entertainment, not a money making way of life. And to be quite honest, they are all laughing at those who defend their position with the ROC, because they are justifying their illegal acts by hiding behind the rules. The game designers and GM have quite enough to do, so I say kill a scriptor, make his job as hard as you can, do what ever you can within your power to make his life as miserable as you can. Then earn your own gold, and quit buying it off players....geese, this is what feeds these guys. Now as Dr. Laura would say"go out and do the right thing."

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

A person has the responsibility to be present and in control of their character to prevent harm from occurring to that character. If they are not present to avoid or report someone luring or using other tactics, then that is the unattended person's problem.

So basically, if there's no report, then there's no foul IMO.

Don't like people luring or reporting you? Then don't play unattended... it's a risk you take in doing so.

 

[Amber Moon]

For me this whole issue is just sad.

Sad that scripters are affecting peoples play.

Sad that the game is in a state that GM enforcement of the rules is too difficult (apparently).

Sad that people think that their vigilantly efforts make more then a minor annoyance to the the scripters.

I, for one, perhaps one of a very few, would be happier if people would just get on with playing the game in ways they enjoy.

I would be happier if everyone played by the spirit of the rules instead of hugging the guard zone line of the rules to suit their own purposes. The players 'job' is to play the game and most importantly to have fun and gain enjoyment from it. That is 'the right thing' for players.

But as a well known developer writes, people are broken as much as the game is. We make own bed and we all get to lie in it. This bed makes me sad.

 

[Alvinho]

Anyone I see in Felucca killing Trogodlites, It is my duty as a red to kill them and loot them includeing takeing the single repair deed off their corpses. I see a miner mineing MY mountain in Felucca it is my duty as a home owner to protect my mountain. It is my game play and I Choose to protect the stuff that I pay 12.99 a month for.

My thief template is a specific build, and when i do travel to tokono or trammel sometimes malas, and am in trouble I WILL use a smokebomb to save myself.

As far as anyone admitting to useing illegal scripts for whatever they have that tries to justify the use, they are breaking the TOS that they accepted when they installed UO, so any special provisions they get shoudl be available to everyone as long as it is EA approved.


What is even more hilarious is when i kill a player that is takeing my gold off corpses in felucca, they go outside the area and start casting a spell to take them to a bank attempting to cast it 5 times, and saying check 1000000 5 times as a ghost then repeating the sacred journey spell all still as a ghose. I am not accuseing anyone of anything just calling a spade, a spade when i see it

 

[Fizzleton]

For me this whole issue is just sad.

Sad that scripters are affecting peoples play.

Sad that the game is in a state that GM enforcement of the rules is too difficult (apparently).

Sad that people think that their vigilantly efforts make more then a minor annoyance to the the scripters.

I, for one, perhaps one of a very few, would be happier if people would just get on with playing the game in ways they enjoy.

I would be happier if everyone played by the spirit of the rules instead of hugging the guard zone line of the rules to suit their own purposes. The players 'job' is to play the game and most importantly to have fun and gain enjoyment from it. That is 'the right thing' for players.

But as a well known developer writes, people are broken as much as the game is. We make own bed and we all get to lie in it. This bed makes me sad.

thing is: what players enjoy differs greatly amongst the players.

assume you played an old-school crafter. you come back to the game and start to do BOD's, since you liked that play-style: doing some lottery, get some nice rewards to sell, and maybe you will hit once in a while the jackpot and get that BRSK-LBOD. And even the HRSK-made armour sold on your vendor for a decent price; not enough to get rich, but enough to get your fair share as a crafter.
So you come back, and to your astonishment you see armor vendors in luna packed with unbelievable good armor! All BRSK-made, of course. What will you do when u hear that you have to script BODS with several accounts to be able to sell in a comparabel manner? Will this game still be "yours"? No. So if you happen to play in a style that is not affected by scripting, you are fine, of course. If not - you will leave.

 

[Amber Moon]

thing is: what players enjoy differs greatly amongst the players.

assume you played an old-school crafter. you come back to the game and start to do BOD's, since you liked that play-style: doing some lottery, get some nice rewards to sell, and maybe you will hit once in a while the jackpot and get that BRSK-LBOD. And even the HRSK-made armour sold on your vendor for a decent price; not enough to get rich, but enough to get your fair share as a crafter.
So you come back, and to your astonishment you see armor vendors in luna packed with unbelievable good armor! All BRSK-made, of course. What will you do when u hear that you have to script BODS with several accounts to be able to sell in a comparabel manner? Will this game still be "yours"? No. So if you happen to play in a style that is not affected by scripting, you are fine, of course. If not - you will leave.

Absolutely. No disagreements here.

Scripting absolutely drives out players. My contention is that players actions can't and won't drive out scripters. Only GM rule enforcement can reduce it and even that won't end it completely.

The solutions other games have used are to create effective player reporting systems along with high priority GM enforcement. I would suggest we petition for that model here as well, rather then carry on with all this ego stoking "I killed/lured on x number of scripters today" chatter. I believe that is far more likely to be effective since the other just gives the team a claim that action is taken against the scripters, just not by them.

 

[Fizzleton]

yes, absolutely no disagreement here, also

killing scripters is somewhat pathetic; gives you a good feeling for the moment, but does not change anything. I think it shows the whole amount of helplessness of players confronted with such a situation. It changes the moment, but not the situation.

 

[ColterDC]

Cheaters continue to ruin this game for honest players.

The gold farmer making gold cheap as dirt and driving the price of everything higher than it should be.

Bod runners collecting and filling BoD's 24/7 making it impossible for any honest player to compete selling their legally gotten items.

People running twice as fast as everyone else in PvP thanks to certain Speeder programs.

And the list goes on and on.

The reason the game is in this state is completely 100% EA's fault. They could stop 99% of the cheating in this game, but are obviously unwilling to do what it takes. The sad thing is the amount of players that would flock to a cheat free UO would far outweight the amount of banned accounts. It's to bad the people in charge of this game are not willing to take a short term lose in order to achieve a long term gain.

 

[Lady Michelle]

Most of us kinda have ourselves to blame when we over price our items &,sell them on vendors or at the bank. Making it to where others will go buy the gold to buy these items.I don't care if I make alot of gold selling things on my vendors my stuff is cheap. I sit at the bank sometimes, and watch to see who is buying what. I go up, and ask them how much they are willling to spend on it. When someone replies back how much you want for it? I tell them I know how much I would like for it, but the point is what you are willing to pay for it not what I want for it. Sometimes I get lucky, and they go over what I want for it. Sometimes Im not so lucky, and they go under what I want for it. but I still sell it to them.


Reason I won't buy UO gold for something on a game. I want a hunters headdress I don't have enough for it. Well maybe I should go buy the gold then I got to thinking what if I buy the gold off the person who is selling the hunters headdress. So if I buy the gold get the hunters headress I could be giving this person back his gold to resell it over. I will go without, and do the best I can without.

 

[galefan2004]

...

A person has the responsibility to be present and in control of their character to prevent harm from occurring to that character. If they are not present to avoid or report someone luring or using other tactics, then that is the unattended person's problem.

If you can't handle a few mobs lured in your direction when you are at your keyboard then you must really suck as a player. If you want to lure on players that are unattended you have my blessing. If you lure on me I can pretty much handle myself, and reporting people for such activity unless it is repeatedly done is just lame.

 

[MaryForUo]

Cheaters continue to ruin this game for honest players. and GM
are sleeping. Paged on many clearly scripters, but never seen a gm.
this suck, like ea service. They get money from us quickly but they dont
have a service to protect this game from cheaters and scripters. Sad...very sad!

 

[galefan2004]

Sad that people think that their vigilantly efforts make more then a minor annoyance to the the scripters.

Who says it matters to us at all what it does to the scripters. Its fun for us to kill scripters in Felucca or to lure monsters to them in Trammel based rulesets especially if one of those monsters likes to rummage corpses.

I, for one, perhaps one of a very few, would be happier if people would just get on with playing the game in ways they enjoy.

You mean like killing script miners and luring to script looters...that is something I enjoy.

I would be happier if everyone played by the spirit of the rules instead of hugging the guard zone line of the rules to suit their own purposes. The players 'job' is to play the game and most importantly to have fun and gain enjoyment from it. That is 'the right thing' for players.

I think Garriot's vision when he created UO was to have a place where players dispensed justice onto other players that broke the laws. Scripting is breaking the law and its in the spirit of the law that killing scripters is a fun and sometimes profitable activity.

But as a well known developer writes, people are broken as much as the game is. We make own bed and we all get to lie in it. This bed makes me sad.

People are not broken. People are made up of different parts of their enviroment all coming together to create their personalities, dreams, desires, goals, etc. As part of my enviroment, I desire to clean up all scripters myself isntead of paging a gm to whine about them every time I see them. I don't want them removed from the game, but I want to play with them when I see them. If I can play with them by getting them killed or killing them myself then that is fun to me.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

That's my point. You have to be present to protect your own character. How you do that is your decision (be it evading, dfending, or reporting), the point remains that if you're not present to protect your caracter, it's your own fault for getting lured on, PKed, stolen from, or reported.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

People are not broken.

A group of people in Arizona want to ban WiFi claiming some form of allegry.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the quoted statement... there are a LOT of "broken" people in the world, and in UO.

 

[galefan2004]

The reason the game is in this state is completely 100% EA's fault. They could stop 99% of the cheating in this game, but are obviously unwilling to do what it takes. The sad thing is the amount of players that would flock to a cheat free UO would far outweight the amount of banned accounts. It's to bad the people in charge of this game are not willing to take a short term lose in order to achieve a long term gain.

Umm...remember spybot? UO wanted to impliment spybot to rid out scripters and the player community went nuts about it. The same players that played WoW which "scans for non-confidential system data" almost every time you log in whined about the same system being implimented in UO. So, no the fault is not EAs alone...it also belongs to the players.

 

[galefan2004]

...

People are not broken.

A group of people in Arizona want to ban WiFi claiming some form of allegry.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the quoted statement... there are a LOT of "broken" people in the world, and in UO.

If you read what I wrote you would see that PEOPLE ARE NOT BROKEN in the fact that they are a completely functioning system comprised from parts of their enviroment. People are functioning competely as they should. The enviroment is the broken part.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Sorry, I don't buy into the "People are only the result of their environment" line. Sure it plays a part, but we still have the higher brain capabilities to overcome that environment.

Just because an environment ALLOWS you to act in a certain way doesn't mean that you SHOULD. It is still the responsibility of the individual to act accordingly.

 

[Amber Moon]

People are not broken. People are made up of different parts of their enviroment all coming together to create their personalities, dreams, desires, goals, etc. As part of my enviroment, I desire to clean up all scripters myself isntead of paging a gm to whine about them every time I see them. I don't want them removed from the game, but I want to play with them when I see them. If I can play with them by getting them killed or killing them myself then that is fun to me.

Nice to see my point so openly admitted. Thank you for your candor.

I think scripters are incredibly corrosive to the game and want them banned at each and every opportunity. All this killing does is distract from what actually needs to occur.

 

[Joyous2K]

yes, absolutely no disagreement here, also

killing scripters is somewhat pathetic; gives you a good feeling for the moment, but does not change anything. I think it shows the whole amount of helplessness of players confronted with such a situation. It changes the moment, but not the situation.

assuming there is money to be made from scripting, this vigilante action is only going to improve the scripts... Get killed in Painted? Yes. Try once more. Get killed in painted? Yes. Try location B. Get killed in location B? Yes. Try once more. Get killed in location B? Yes. Try location C.

I am certain their scripts can be improved on and it will be fun for the programmer to design that type of a script. Ultimately he will have an even better script program to handle more kinds of disruptive scenarios.

 

[Mister E.]

thanks Sheridan for again being my personal censor. Threads like this do not belong in U-Hall but rather in rants and flames. Perhaps instead of censoring me you should be putting the thread in its proper place no?

 

[Lord Richard]

Most of us kinda have ourselves to blame when we over price our items &,sell them on vendors or at the bank. Making it to where others will go buy the gold to buy these items.I don't care if I make alot of gold selling things on my vendors my stuff is cheap. I sit at the bank sometimes, and watch to see who is buying what. I go up, and ask them how much they are willling to spend on it. When someone replies back how much you want for it? I tell them I know how much I would like for it, but the point is what you are willing to pay for it not what I want for it. Sometimes I get lucky, and they go over what I want for it. Sometimes Im not so lucky, and they go under what I want for it. but I still sell it to them.


Reason I won't buy UO gold for something on a game. I want a hunters headdress I don't have enough for it. Well maybe I should go buy the gold then I got to thinking what if I buy the gold off the person who is selling the hunters headdress. So if I buy the gold get the hunters headress I could be giving this person back his gold to resell it over. I will go without, and do the best I can without.

I am the same way, I never thought I would ever hear someone who thought like me in the forums..God Bless you.

 

[Lord Richard]

thanks Sheridan for again being my personal censor. Threads like this do not belong in U-Hall but rather in rants and flames. Perhaps instead of censoring me you should be putting the thread in its proper place no?

I fail to see a rant here, just alot of fed-up players that don't like to see theirgame ruined by those that prefer to make money off it rather than enjoy it for the entertainment value it was designed for. So many things we do for relaxation are being exploited for financial gain in this world, we would like to have just one place here where we can just have fun, and not feel like we have to cheat to be able to compete in the game to survive.

 

[MalagAste]

Back years ago when I first started playing OU a small 7x7 home would run you 5 million gold..... I would hunt day in day out and I NEVER had more than 100k..... no matter what... I looked into buying gold.... but back then the price of gold was 25 dollars per Million!.... worse than trying to make 1 million gold... Now however there are plots upon plots available... you can place a house anywhere.... back then there wasn't a spot to place at all... you could search for months on end and never find a spot even for a tiny little 7x7.... and now the price of gold is less than 2 dollars per.... something is wrong with that ......... VERY wrong.....

You know another thing....... Back then I would read stratics everyday... I never saw anything that say "Quitting UO!"..... now it's a daily post. Back then the worst thing out there was the PK.... Or those who tried to sell you a house with a scroll.....

Somethings have changed for the better in UO... some have not.... but one thing remains the same... there is NO shortage of cheaters and scammers. And the PK remains...

They deal with the fact that prices for arties are just plain out of sight by making them a bit more reachable by the average joe... this I like..... I actually enjoy going to doom now knowing that if I work really hard I actually WILL get an artie.... that made my day.... When doom first came out I went there day in day out trying to get an artie.... I tried on my archer, I tried on my tamer, I tried on my dexer and I tried on my mage... Never got an artie... after months and months of trying I finally said forget it... I spent more in insurance monies and losses than it would take to buy the arties off vendors... Took me several years before I ever got my first artie out of doom.... and even that was a slap in the face... as my artie was the dragon lance.... something comepletely worthless not only to me but anyone else... After the changes I went down to doom and within an hour had an artie...... this time a very nice blade of insanity.... wasn't the Ornement of the Magician or anything but it was mine and it was nice... I go there now on a regular basis getting my OWN arties... And it has improved game play to me alot.... Seemed to me back before the change the same few folk always got the artie.... now hard work is rewarded no matter who it is.

As for fixing the bod runners and the gold scripters.... I'm not sure what the fix for that would be. One thing is for sure... it needs to be done. One thing to remember though is where there is demand there will always be someone wanting to supply.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Very well put, Lord Richard! Couldn't have said it better.

Yesterday I killed my first scripter in the Painted Caves in Felucca. It actually is fun killing people who deserve it. Stealthing next to them. In an opportune moment: disarm, bleed, switch weapons, poison, armor pierce. Dead. It took the guy a while to notice what happened. I received one murder count. It was worth the murder count. I can afford killing one scripter every 40 hours of playing. And I will continue to do so.

Funny enough, 2 hours later I saw the same guy in the Painted Caves in Trammel. I lured Lurg towards him, then did a shadow strike. He was dead and didn't even notice until his body had decayed.

I know all this won't solve the problem. But It makes me feel good to know that I contributed a tiny little thing to make this world a better place. Also, I never would buy gold or items for real money. I wouldn't do it on principle. I hope many other people think as I do.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

You know another thing....... Back then I would read stratics everyday... I never saw anything that say "Quitting UO!"..... now it's a daily post. Back then the worst thing out there was the PK.... Or those who tried to sell you a house with a scroll.....

You are actually wrong. I've been playing UO since the very beginning, and there have always been people predicting the doom of UO. There have always been people posting their frustration out on the message boards. As a matter of fact, I believe that the frustrated people post way more often than the people who enjoy this game.

Actually, I consider myself an average joe. By killing creatures for 5 months I made about 2 million (most of it I have spent however). I never finished a champ spawn, I never received an artifact in Doom. I do only things that are fun. But the community is what counts! People helping each other out. Some with advise, some with ideas, others with items. I'm very happy with what I achieved in game, although there are many people who have 50 times more gold in their bank box than I do. No idea what they're gonna do with all that money...

Conclusion: You don't need insane amounts of gold to have fun in this game! All you need is friends.