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[Provocation] Do bard masteries raise skill or no?

SouthPaw

Lore Master
Do bard masteries raise skill or no?

Getting mixed messages from posts here. Currently have 92 real provocation, tried the mastery for awhile, didn't get any gains. The Crystal ball of Knowledge gives the message "Too easy" when I use masteries.

Never mind. I used it for about 10 minutes and gained 0.2
 
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SouthPaw

Lore Master
Update: I kept using it, up to 105 real provo skill now. Seems like there's no reason to lock music at GM any more since we can use masteries at 90 skill. This is very likely the fastest way to gain after 90 skill because you can turn the mastery on and off so quickly compared to a 7-8 second timer when using the skill on mobs.
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
Update: Up to 115 real provocation now, purely using the mastery spell. Gains are extremely slow now to the point that using the mastery for gains no longer seems viable; I noticed it got slower after 105 skill and then a lot worse after 110. Now it's like facing a brick wall. I have 120 music skill, not sure if gains would be better if music was at 100. I'll likely stone music and start it over because I need to work on my Discord skill now (currently 80) and I'm thinking perhaps both skills would raise faster if music was at 100 (not sure if mastery spell gets bonus based on music skill or not). Once I get 90 disco I'll try gaining with that mastery spell. My goal is to have music, discord, and provocation at 120 by the end of this week. I'm tempted to just get +5 provocation and +discord jewelry once I get 90 real discord, and gain the rest of the way by actually playing the game instead of pure skilling-SO boring!
 
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SouthPaw

Lore Master
Got my discord to 90 via slimes and slugs near entrance of underworld. Then I got it from 90-110 via mastery spell. Going very slow now. I just discovered by accident I can use the discord ability on myself and my Crystal Ball of Knowledge shows "Optimal". Gained 0.8 using disco on myself so far. Seems faster than using the mastery spell at this point.

*Edit*
Went from 110-120 discord just from using discord on myself. Got slow towards the end, but works.
 
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Innoxicated

Journeyman
Haha I trained my discord using masteries on myself just because it was so convenient, and I definitely noticed it raises faster than provo. You may have shed a little light on why! If provo is still dragging ass, i think it's worth trying bringing music back down to gm. I was told by someone even using masteries that's the way to do it, because I believe there are still 2 skill checks.

Even though you can't fizzle, knowing uo as the peculiar beast that it is, I wouldn't doubt gm+ music gives a bonus to success chance for masteries just like it does for regular use of the skills.

Tbh, not trusting uo to function in a logical fashion, I actually locked my music at 99 hoping to edge a little closer to failing that check than succeeding. I don't know for certain if it made a difference or not, but if you find yourself bored to tears, it's something you can consider, anyway!
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
I finally got 120 music, provocation, and discord. I did 2 spawns with my guild today...pretty fun. Frustrating that the success rate on higher end mobs is still low even with 120 skills. I find myself trying to land discord first and then provo. Is that what most people do? What areas are great for bards?
 

Innoxicated

Journeyman
Don't forget to bring several types of slayer instruments, and if you use EC have macros to switch. You definitely want to spam discord first, at least on the target you're wanting to provoke things onto. (Or vice versa, or both, as the situation necessitates.) Then it becomes a delicate balancing act, as you attempt to manage your targets' health so you're not left with one at half hp and is also more powerful skillwise, due to the 'training' you've given them, especially with any tough mob or fight that lasts a while.

Keep in mind you get a success chance bonus for active use of the bard skill you select as your mastery, also a good reduction in cool down time for all bard skills. This might not matter if you're running provo masteries, as you'll probably discord first anyway, but it obviously helps a lot if you're mastery is discord. I find myself changing back and forth a lot, provo early and discord to up dps as a finisher.

If you're lucky maybe @Lord GOD(GOD) will chime in. I've played bard for a long time and still found a lot of new information from posts of his in regards to playing the best content available for bards. Of which there is much less to choose from than I would like, unfortunately.
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
I find myself trying to land discord first and then provo. Is that what most people do? What areas are great for bards?
99.9% of the time I run 4x 120 Bard skills and 120 Mage/Med. During spawning levels I run the Provoke Masteries, and use 2 EV's and Firehorn for killing stuff, with the odd Discord or Provoke thrown in at later levels to keep the heat off me. For the champion switch to Discord Mastery, Discord it, then use Despair & Tribulation set on it's weakest resist. Provoke if possible but prioritise keeping the Masteries active. Depending where you're spawning you can get some good Provokes (i.e. lost lands Parragon Greater Dragons vs Meph) but in general if there's a group they will end up killing any Provokes through lack of awareness.

I haven't been in game for a while but I think Doom is probably the best arena for a pure Bard, all of the rooms can be solod with Discord Masteries, and the DF can be solod with Provoke/Summons/Masteries.

If you're not at that level yet (soloing bosses) and are still on regular level 4-5 monsters (Blood Eles, Balrons, Ancient Wyrms, Shadow Wyrms) then anywhere where there is a lot of spawn is great. Unbound Energy Vortex's and the nearby Eles (can't remember name) are good, as you can get all 8 on the UEV plus Discord Masteries, plus Air Ele Summons, plus if you're a loon a Mage Weapon Heavy Xbow.

You can also consider having 120 Spellweaving in place of Peace, but it makes both your Provoke and Discord Masteries weaker, that would be effective throughout the fight, for a high burst of damage right at the end of the fight (where depending on how many are attacking it could be less worthwhile).
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
99.9% of the time I run 4x 120 Bard skills and 120 Mage/Med. During spawning levels I run the Provoke Masteries, and use 2 EV's and Firehorn for killing stuff, with the odd Discord or Provoke thrown in at later levels to keep the heat off me. For the champion switch to Discord Mastery, Discord it, then use Despair & Tribulation set on it's weakest resist. Provoke if possible but prioritise keeping the Masteries active. Depending where you're spawning you can get some good Provokes (i.e. lost lands Parragon Greater Dragons vs Meph) but in general if there's a group they will end up killing any Provokes through lack of awareness.

I haven't been in game for a while but I think Doom is probably the best arena for a pure Bard, all of the rooms can be solod with Discord Masteries, and the DF can be solod with Provoke/Summons/Masteries.

If you're not at that level yet (soloing bosses) and are still on regular level 4-5 monsters (Blood Eles, Balrons, Ancient Wyrms, Shadow Wyrms) then anywhere where there is a lot of spawn is great. Unbound Energy Vortex's and the nearby Eles (can't remember name) are good, as you can get all 8 on the UEV plus Discord Masteries, plus Air Ele Summons, plus if you're a loon a Mage Weapon Heavy Xbow.

You can also consider having 120 Spellweaving in place of Peace, but it makes both your Provoke and Discord Masteries weaker, that would be effective throughout the fight, for a high burst of damage right at the end of the fight (where depending on how many are attacking it could be less worthwhile).
I've been getting more experience with the mastery spells lately. Can you solo spawns as a bard? I'm not sure how you clear the spawn; using provoke or the disco masteries would take a long time, do you mostly use EV's and summons? I'm not sure which is better damage; death ray or the 2 discord masteries. Death ray hits harder but it seems like the discord masteries hit faster and together they cost a little less mana. I confess I've never used a fire horn so I've got no experience there, I'll have to try that out. For the champ boss how do you keep the boss off of you if there's nothing to provoke on it? EV's?

*edit*
I tried out fire horn. Good area damage to nearby mobs, about a 5 second cool down, must have ash in pack even with 100 LRC (lame!).
 
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Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
I've been getting more experience with the mastery spells lately. Can you solo spawns as a bard? I'm not sure how you clear the spawn; using provoke or the disco masteries would take a long time, do you mostly use EV's and summons? I'm not sure which is better damage; death ray or the 2 discord masteries. Death ray hits harder but it seems like the discord masteries hit faster and together they cost a little less mana. I confess I've never used a fire horn so I've got no experience there, I'll have to try that out. For the champ boss how do you keep the boss off of you if there's nothing to provoke on it? EV's?

*edit*
I tried out fire horn. Good area damage to nearby mobs, about a 5 second cool down, must have ash in pack even with 100 LRC (lame!).
You can, though it depends on how you go about it, where, and your template. You can use EV's and Firehorn for the spawn, Sulph Ash can be bought up easily into the 1000's no reason not to carry and use it. You can also use a couple of Vollems, their as strong as Nightmares. If you're spawning in the Lost Lands you can usually find some decent Parragons to Provoke on to the boss. You don't really need to keep the boss off you in most cases. Barracoon doesn't move. Rikktor has only a predictable Earthquake attack. Neira will die to her own spawn. Semidar I've not tried with Masteries. I've not used Deathray much but as far as I remember it stops when you move or get hit which makes it useless imo.
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
You can, though it depends on how you go about it, where, and your template. You can use EV's and Firehorn for the spawn, Sulph Ash can be bought up easily into the 1000's no reason not to carry and use it. You can also use a couple of Vollems, their as strong as Nightmares. If you're spawning in the Lost Lands you can usually find some decent Parragons to Provoke on to the boss. You don't really need to keep the boss off you in most cases. Barracoon doesn't move. Rikktor has only a predictable Earthquake attack. Neira will die to her own spawn. Semidar I've not tried with Masteries. I've not used Deathray much but as far as I remember it stops when you move or get hit which makes it useless imo.
Thanks for the information. We had a guild hunt last night against Navry, tried to see how fast we could kill her without using the falling rocks. I switched up the mastery I was using a bunch. Unfortunately there's nothing there to provoke onto her but I could discord her easy enough. The guild liked the provocation mastery buffs, but that doesn't do much for my damage output; I can cast flamestrike on her but my mana was draining fast, I have 110 meditation, but my mana regen isn't maxed on my current suit. With death ray the mana drain is heavy and if you get hit at all it stops and you can't move and the range is very low, but the damage is high (110 magery/120 eval int). The discord mastery spells don't drain quite as fast as death ray, and you can move around which is nice. The damage isn't as high as death ray, but I think the ticks are a little faster. I used summons but she either killed or dispelled them fast.

Questions:
If I use the discord mastery spell Tribulation, is the extra damage only from me or anyone hitting the same mob?

Can I level up the Vollems with no taming skill? I have a tamer character so I know how training works. This bard toon is pretty new so he has almost 0 clean up points. Can't help but feel like if I'm going to use Vollems I may as well make a tamer/bard instead of a mage/bard.

Summoned elementals seem to die or get dispelled really easy, even if I have the magery mastery running. I'm not loving the magery/bard. I'm considering dropping eval int and lowering magery skill to 106 and picking up necro/ss or taming/lore. I may even have these other skills on another toon that I can stone over. Has anyone tried a necro bard? My tamer is necro and with wraith form and wither the first 3 rounds of champ spawns are like a hot knife on butter. I'm thinking I could run the provo mastery buffs for the extra SDI until the boss spawns, then switch to discord mastery, discord the boss and provoke anything around on to him and use Despair and Tribulation on him.
 
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Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Thanks for the information. We had a guild hunt last night against Navry, tried to see how fast we could kill her without using the falling rocks. I switched up the mastery I was using a bunch. Unfortunately there's nothing there to provoke onto her but I could discord her easy enough. The guild liked the provocation mastery buffs, but that doesn't do much for my damage output; I can cast flamestrike on her but my mana was draining fast, I have 110 meditation, but my mana regen isn't maxed on my current suit. With death ray the mana drain is heavy and if you get hit at all it stops and you can't move and the range is very low, but the damage is high (110 magery/120 eval int). The discord mastery spells don't drain quite as fast as death ray, and you can move around which is nice. The damage isn't as high as death ray, but I think the ticks are a little faster. I used summons but she either killed or dispelled them fast.

Questions:
If I use the discord mastery spell Tribulation, is the extra damage only from me or anyone hitting the same mob?

Can I level up the Vollems with no taming skill? I have a tamer character so I know how training works. This bard toon is pretty new so he has almost 0 clean up points. Can't help but feel like if I'm going to use Vollems I may as well make a tamer/bard instead of a mage/bard.

Summoned elementals seem to die or get dispelled really easy, even if I have the magery mastery running. I'm not loving the magery/bard. I'm considering dropping eval int and lowering magery skill to 106 and picking up necro/ss or taming/lore. I may even have these other skills on another toon that I can stone over. Has anyone tried a necro bard? My tamer is necro and with wraith form and wither the first 3 rounds of champ spawns are like a hot knife on butter. I'm thinking I could run the provo mastery buffs for the extra SDI until the boss spawns, then switch to discord mastery, discord the boss and provoke anything around on to him and use Despair and Tribulation on him.
Death Ray is a waste of time.

On Navrey, you would use an Arachnid or Spider Slayer instrument (there's no bonus for using single slayers like with warrior weapons), Discord Navrey, set the damage type to fire and use Tribulation and Despair. Tribulation is extra damage from everyone. You could then (holding a Spider Slayer book) shoot Fireballs mana allowing.

The real skill points you have in Bard skills are what affect the damage, so you could boost Tribulation/Despair damage by having 4x120 Bard skills.

You can train the Vollems but not level them up.

I'm not sure what the purpose of dropping Magery to 106 is? You need Magery for success casting EV's and it's your defense when using a Mage Weapon. In other words you want it at 120.
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
Death Ray is a waste of time.

On Navrey, you would use an Arachnid or Spider Slayer instrument (there's no bonus for using single slayers like with warrior weapons), Discord Navrey, set the damage type to fire and use Tribulation and Despair. Tribulation is extra damage from everyone. You could then (holding a Spider Slayer book) shoot Fireballs mana allowing.

The real skill points you have in Bard skills are what affect the damage, so you could boost Tribulation/Despair damage by having 4x120 Bard skills.

You can train the Vollems but not level them up.

I'm not sure what the purpose of dropping Magery to 106 is? You need Magery for success casting EV's and it's your defense when using a Mage Weapon. In other words you want it at 120.
The idea to drop magery to 106 is for 100% success casting up to circle 7 spells. I would only do that if I decide to add necro/ss in which case I wouldn't use summons-they seem to die or get dispelled very easily anyways (I have 110 magery, maybe they're better @120 but I haven't been able to find a 120 magery scroll). I would use a Vollem and animate dead instead of summons if I go that route.

I have real bard skills of 120 music/provo/discord right now. I've never liked the peacemaking skill, don't see a need for it as long as you can cast invisibility, but now you got me wondering how much better would the damage for trib/despair be if I had it? We killed Navrey several times last night and at least a couple times I did what you said, discorded her, put on Tribulation and Despair with fire damage. Seemed to work pretty well-probably the best thing I can do on a boss mob. If you like peacemaking besides for the extra trib/despair damage, please let me know in what situations you use it.

I think you're right about death ray, at least with my setup, using trib/despair is a better way to go.
 
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Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Magery skill is also your melee defence with a Mage weapon. Without it you get hit 100 per cent of the time. With 120 after skill items you get hit 50 per cent of the time by things with 120 Wrestling. This may seem trivial but it makes a huge difference and is generally how you can tell a less advanced player. With 120 melee defence you can, for example, Ressurect a fallen guildie while taking the flack.

Relying on Vollems isn't a great idea as at the end if the day they are still just regular Nightmares and will die. Also leaving you unable to summon by taking control slots. Animate Dead doesn't take control slots and you can have three of them regardless of pets/summons. Though if you were going Necro you may want to use Command Undead and have two Skeletal Dragons. The only downside would be not using Bard Masteries. So it would depend how you wanted to play, as a Bard, or as a Summoner.

I don't like the Peacemaking skill either, it is purely for boosting the Mastery effects, however, in a group you can only have one set applied at a time, so if someone else had Provoke Masteries running, you would only be able to buff the party with Peace. It would also be preferable over the Provoke Masteries in any situation in which you are continually Poisoned as the healing from Provoke is blocked by that. Peace Masteries give fantastic Regens and damage reduction.
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
Magery skill is also your melee defence with a Mage weapon. Without it you get hit 100 per cent of the time. With 120 after skill items you get hit 50 per cent of the time by things with 120 Wrestling. This may seem trivial but it makes a huge difference and is generally how you can tell a less advanced player. With 120 melee defence you can, for example, Ressurect a fallen guildie while taking the flack.

Relying on Vollems isn't a great idea as at the end if the day they are still just regular Nightmares and will die. Also leaving you unable to summon by taking control slots. Animate Dead doesn't take control slots and you can have three of them regardless of pets/summons. Though if you were going Necro you may want to use Command Undead and have two Skeletal Dragons. The only downside would be not using Bard Masteries. So it would depend how you wanted to play, as a Bard, or as a Summoner.

I don't like the Peacemaking skill either, it is purely for boosting the Mastery effects, however, in a group you can only have one set applied at a time, so if someone else had Provoke Masteries running, you would only be able to buff the party with Peace. It would also be preferable over the Provoke Masteries in any situation in which you are continually Poisoned as the healing from Provoke is blocked by that. Peace Masteries give fantastic Regens and damage reduction.
Thanks again for all your information. It has given me a lot to think about. At this points I think I need to get more experience playing with my current template before I decide to make any changes. Would be nice if I can get my hands on a 120 magery and meditation scroll. Also need more SDI and mana regen on my suit.
 
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