*discussion* Faction Bonuses vs Artifacts

[Kratos Aurion]

If all you wanted was the faction arties then factions are better off without you. Factions are about PvP outside of your dungeon grinders.

*quoted from the stickied "Factions 101" thread*

I think EA brought this upon factions by implementing an extremely poor structure for recruiting new factioners. It was bound to be abused by PvM'ers and PvP'ers.

Who wouldn't abuse it? The artifacts are considerably better. It was a lousy fix to get mass recruiting.

Honestly the faction motives should have been different and structured to be used in fel only like..

All faction members...

1) 10% higher chance to get 120's during spawns (starts at 1% at rank 1 and follows up to 10% at rank 10) *may or may not affect SoTs/Replicas*

2) All members gain a 10%-20% DI or SDI (based on active skills) bonus towards all PvP combat in general in factions (the percentile is based on the same scale above)
-melee requirement = 3x gm any 3 melee related skills
-mage requirement = 3x gm any mage related skills (discluding necromancy/chivalry)

3) The ability to take 1 skill passed 120 up to 130 or any gm capped skill up to 110 (but still uses the 700 overall cap/720 cap with a 4 year veteran - will not stack over cap like skill modded armor/jewelry - only works on legendary skills - instantly makes the change from 120-130 when used and char has available skill points)
-these scrolls can only be used on faction characters @ rank 7 or higher and can only have 1 active scroll per character
-unlike normal skill gain, the scrolls would give you the skill instantiously
-must have available skill space for the scroll to work
-if person decides to not use the 130 skill, all he/she needs to do is train any active skill up .1 and the scroll is automatically redeeded into the characters backpack (and only useable by that character) *or if the dev team isn't lazy, they may add an option to remove the advanced skill at the loss of the scroll on the characters toggle menu*
-unlike normal scrolls, faction 130 scrolls can either be obtained through random acts of active faction fighting (and killing) with a rare chance of obtaining one or obtainable with a set # of silver.

4) All Factions recieve a special champion/dungeon that are only accessible to faction members. The dungeons are placed where ever EA sees fit. The spawn is worked like normal champions (and give SoTs/PS/*possibly non replica or alternatively give harrower replicas)
-alternatively these champions could be used to also obtain the advanced skill scrolls that take you from 120-130 skill
-Can help determine the controller of specific cities (establish one dungeon for ecah faction and each dungeon is controlled to a specific city)
-Dungeons can be built for a more in-depth faction purpose such as fighting off the forces of minax or the royal britannian guard (champions can be captains or generals of either leauge)
-additional rewards could be implemented and used by the player base as a whole such as new artifacts or other oddities.


I believe changes like that would have been far superior than adding highend extra/advanced modded arties and would require active pvp participation in order to use the bonuses and only usable in fel *with the exception of the scroll idea*. It would have been enough incentive for any active pvpers to join knowing that all of them would be actual benefits to pvp (scroll bonus/pvp di/sdi/advanced skill).

What are everyone elses thoughts? Ideas/Suggestions (revert faction arties? add changes?) I'd like to make a decent non-flaming/ranting/trolling discussion.

UPDATED:
-added additional notes to faction dungeons

 

[weins201]

Faction Dungeons, Like brit sewrs for TB.

But i think all the fationc need towns around their bases like TB and COM. Viable towns, or all like Minax and SL without towns.

I think the idea for faction fight dungeons a pretty good one but as for items and other S&*T you mentioned well.

 

[Kratos Aurion]

Faction Dungeons, Like brit sewrs for TB.

But i think all the fationc need towns around their bases like TB and COM. Viable towns, or all like Minax and SL without towns.

I think the idea for faction fight dungeons a pretty good one but as for items and other S&*T you mentioned well.

Lol I'm not exactly an expert factioner. I haven't really played in Factions since before SE so I'm not exactly sure what everyones desires are.

EA wanted to create an incentive for people to join so they gave them unnecessary doom artifacts with advanced mods.

My ideas revolve around pvp as opposed to EAs rolling over it (meaning it doesn't even have to be a factor).

I thought that having any sort of small "advantage" to being in factions other than plain implementations would make it not only fun but inticing for pvpers to join.

EDIT: But at least you liked one of my ideas so I'm somewhat on the right track.

I just think that in order to make factions enticing, it really needs something all pvpers want but not necessarily need such as the PS bonus and skill bonus and DI/SDI bonus.

It wouldnt be enough to cripple regular pvp or destroy non-faction related spawning.

 

[Black Majick]

I think that the effects should not carry over into Trammel facets and that those aids need tweaked. Other than that is has breathed new life into PvP and factions on Sonoma.

 

[Lynk]

I think that the effects should not carry over into Trammel facets and that those aids need tweaked. Other than that is has breathed new life into PvP and factions on Sonoma.

Why would they not be taken into trammel?????? Factions is about PvP. If you join factions you have consented to PvP. These ****ing ***gots are skewing the amount of killpoints needed to maintain rank by farming the points via exploiting the war zone bonus. This is in turn making it difficult for other legit PvPers to maintain rank.

If you want to partake in our items, you take the risk of me killing you.

 

[Kratos Aurion]

Why would they not be taken into trammel?????? Factions is about PvP. If you join factions you have consented to PvP. These ****ing ****ots are skewing the amount of killpoints needed to maintain rank by farming the points via exploiting the war zone bonus. This is in turn making it difficult for other legit PvPers to maintain rank.

If you want to partake in our items, you take the risk of me killing you.

I guess the point here is that EA took a mildly good idea and yet again implemented without proper procedure and care.

Faction artifacts *and pardon my distaste* were a terrible idea from the get go.

1) It creates an overall field imbalance
2) It further causes mass griefing for both facets - "If they get them why cant we?"
3) It again like you pointed out causes further exploitation.

The only optional fixes would be to

1) revert faction artifacts entirely and replace them with faction bonus attributes that only work for the fel facet
2) enable factions in trammel (which I might add I am against because even tho a faction member consents to pvp, trammel is a non-pvp consented facet)
3) implement a point fix and an artifact fix that cannot be exploited *easily* or more or less balance it out somehow.

 

[Black Majick]

Why would they not be taken into trammel?????? Factions is about PvP. If you join factions you have consented to PvP. These ****ing ***gots are skewing the amount of killpoints needed to maintain rank by farming the points via exploiting the war zone bonus. This is in turn making it difficult for other legit PvPers to maintain rank.

If you want to partake in our items, you take the risk of me killing you.

Let me rephrase my statement...the effects of the artifacts should not carry over into trammel unless the PvP carries over into trammel. If the PvP did, then all cool...let the artifacts as well.

 

[Lynk]

The solution is simple.

Whipe all points back to 0.

Eliminate double and triple kill point bonuses.

Put the timers back to the way they were.

Extend factions to trammel.

 

[Bo from Kentwood]

The solution is simple.

Whipe all points back to 0.

Eliminate double and triple kill point bonuses.

Put the timers back to the way they were.

Extend factions to trammel.

I agree with everything except the last one...unless the opposing factions promise to let me bank in Luna at least on occasion

However, the wiping all points, doesn't seem like it would do much good, at least in SL. You see, if you have about 10 kill points you are rank 10 in SL. Not sure if it's that much off kilter in your faction (CoM or TB I'm guessing...does Minax even field people anymore?), so it will only be a matter of a few hours for someone to have enough kill points to maintain level 10 and even have enough to throw some his friends' way.

 

[somoka]

how about an increased kill point loss % if you are in tram more than you are in fel?

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Faction artifacts *and pardon my distaste* were a terrible idea from the get go.

1) It creates an overall field imbalance

3) implement a point fix and an artifact fix that cannot be exploited *easily* or more or less balance it out somehow.

It doesn't create an overall field imbalance. If two people join factions they are both subject to the better items. It goes back to the risk vs reward. If you dont want to join factions that's fine, but don't cry that people are getting artifacts for free when they risk stat loss everytime they fight.

The point thing I do agree with, they need to change everything except the stealing. I don't really think 10 points for a full sigil steal cycle is that big of a deal, however they should increase it back to 10 hours to hold and 3 days that you own the town again.

 

[RichDC]

It doesn't create an overall field imbalance. If two people join factions they are both subject to the better items. It goes back to the risk vs reward. If you dont want to join factions that's fine, but don't cry that people are getting artifacts for free when they risk stat loss everytime they fight.

The point thing I do agree with, they need to change everything except the stealing. I don't really think 10 points for a full sigil steal cycle is that big of a deal, however they should increase it back to 10 hours to hold and 3 days that you own the town again.

Actually it does create a huge field imbalance, when you have trammy guild like DC* we dont want to go in factions but we want to do spawns. We get raided alot and are used to dying but with the new faction arties pretty much every major PvP guild on the shard has switched to factions giving them a HUGE advantage (the 3fcr on the crystaline opens up more mods on the gloves they dont need...plus the extra 10DCI on the glasses means they can be disarmed without too much penatly).

When they fight factioners there is no imbalance but the problem is when they dont...our guild shouldnt be FORCED into joining factions to remain(sorry become) competitive.

 

[Lynk]

Actually it does create a huge field imbalance, when you have trammy guild like DC* we dont want to go in factions but we want to do spawns. We get raided alot and are used to dying but with the new faction arties pretty much every major PvP guild on the shard has switched to factions giving them a HUGE advantage (the 3fcr on the crystaline opens up more mods on the gloves they dont need...plus the extra 10DCI on the glasses means they can be disarmed without too much penatly).

When they fight factioners there is no imbalance but the problem is when they dont...our guild shouldnt be FORCED into joining factions to remain(sorry become) competitive.

Rich, DC doesn't get rolled because of gear. DC gets rolled because they are bad at PvP.

Not every guild is in factions. UOD is in factions. TDR has a couple that play oranges. BC has their stealth archers. 2.0 is all factions, but there is like 5 of us total.

 

[RichDC]

Believe me im not saying were good at PvP, but since the faction artifacts weve suddenly got alot worse.

although personally id say were heading in the right direction.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I don't think that a ring having 3 fcr now is causing YOU to get worse..

Might be user error? Maybe?