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Dexxer Tamer template ideas

Gb8719

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
This character is based on a template and play style that Lord GOD posted. I’m intrigued and want to try something like this and make it work.

Has anyone ever tried this build or had success with it?


I’m debating between two different styles:

Tamer with Archery. Healing myself and pet with 4/6 and spellweaving.

Tamer with Necro and swords. Focus on mostly damage with no parry. Pet will be tanking. Healing with Vet.

Both would be using a Cu with Disco.


Thoughts?
 

Keven2002

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
This character is based on a template and play style that Lord GOD posted. I’m intrigued and want to try something like this and make it work.

Has anyone ever tried this build or had success with it?


I’m debating between two different styles:

Tamer with Archery. Healing myself and pet with 4/6 and spellweaving.

Tamer with Necro and swords. Focus on mostly damage with no parry. Pet will be tanking. Healing with Vet.

Both would be using a Cu with Disco.


Thoughts?
I believe @Pawain has an archer tamer. He might be able to chime in on this...
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
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Stratics Legend
Mine has these skills:
upload_2019-6-18_16-28-11.png

Works great against a single target. Toon damages more than pet.

Chiv healing on a pet is very low and have to be very close. I heal with Consume when needed.

I can't fight crowds with him because my Toon needs Invised often. Cu works great, you can hop on when needed.

Spellweaving works great at low level spawn. If you can fit that into that template, you can kill stuff.

There are some PvP templates that use a NM and necro/swords. Some tweaking and using the right damage pet you should be able to kill things pretty well.

For me, I have trouble keeping my toon alive unless I can invis. Im too slow with potions.

We need more players to use melee damage with pets I think many varieties will work.
 

Gb8719

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I like this template recommendation a lot.

I tried an archer/tamer a long time ago on Test and I had such a hard time with having everything attack me instead of my pet. That's what makes me lean towards the Necro route so I can tank just as easily if necessary. Downside of that build is that I might not have room for Bush and/or Parry.

Any thoughts on how a Sampire template would be with just Necro to self heal? Maybe including HLL on a weapon for extra survivability.

Template:
Swords 100
Tactics 100
Taming 90
Lore 100
Vet 90
Necro 100
Chiv 80
Bush 60
 

MeTheGreat

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
i just built a melee tamer, waiting for pets to bond to start testing viability
I chose fencing because the bracelet i'm using has that skill
i opted for parry because both chiv and vet require being next to the pet
i plan to let pet be the tank and then hack away
my concern is whether i leech enough life/mana to stay alive (slayer leaf blades: 96hll, 68hml)

120 fenc (105+15)
100 tact (75+25)
100 parry
115 lore
120 tam
100 vet (85+15)
120 chiv

i have 120 arch and 80 bush on soulstones for when i plan to keep distance
(and may swap bush for vet if i run in party with other tamers so that i can use feint)
 
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Pawain

I Hate Skilling
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Stratics Legend
my concern is whether i leech enough life/mana to stay alive (slayer leaf blades: 96hll, 68hml)
Ya my fencer does not Leech much with leaf blade. But slayer will help. Have some fencing whips to try?
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Cu Sidhe with Disco would be ideal because of the heals. Possibly a Beetle for Rune Corruption.
You might rethink your tamer then, not sure you could handle any 5 slot with those or even a 4 slot
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Gargoyle is more practical with Macing. For a 1h AI/Double Strike setup which still allows you to use a shield for FC.
 
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Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Think you're all missing how you play this. It's not dexxer OR Tamer, it's BOTH at the same. The pet tanks WHILE you attack and Vet, not while you Chiv heal it. Or the pet shields while you gather mobs for WW. You utilise positioning and pet control to stay protected while you Vet, then WW on Guard with Hit Area.
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
I’m debating between two different styles:

Tamer with Archery. Healing myself and pet with 4/6 and spellweaving.

Tamer with Necro and swords. Focus on mostly damage with no parry. Pet will be tanking. Healing with Vet.

Both would be using a Cu with Disco.

Thoughts?
If the first one you mean 4/6 chiv, spellweaving and no Vet it isn't enough to heal the pet.

The second works, though I don't see why you would limit yourself to a Discord Cu. When you could exploit (just as an example) a fire beetle with rune corruption, coupled with double strike and onslaught.
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Another version (just to confuse you all further lol) would be replace the 100 necro with a necro ss split and use wraith and/or curse weapon.
 

Gb8719

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Rune corruption+double strike+onslaught sounds amazingly hard hitting. I think I read that Disco stacks with this also.

I guess going with Vet is my only or best option. That would make being ranged with Archery pretty pointless.

Thanks for the info. I’m gonna have to start swapping some skills around to give this a shot.
 

Gb8719

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
If you're Human I would go Swords.
I was debating on elf for the flexibility of riding a Cu without the pads. Definitely Swords though.. can’t beat Double Strike with a double axe.

So here’s my final template:
100 swords (120)
90 taming (120)
100 lore (115)
100 tactics (110)
90 vet (enhanced bandies)
100 necro
80 chiv
60 bush

How does this look?
 

Gb8719

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Ok, one more option for theorycrafting templates. How about using Consume Damage with an archer and possibly wraith form to keep mana up? It should be a good option to replace Vet and stay at a range.
 

Keven2002

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Ok, one more option for theorycrafting templates. How about using Consume Damage with an archer and possibly wraith form to keep mana up? It should be a good option to replace Vet and stay at a range.
Would be a fine idea if you were fighting something that was 100% physical damage as that's the only thing consume will work on. If you are fighting something other than that consume isn't nearly as helpful.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Ok, one more option for theorycrafting templates. How about using Consume Damage with an archer and possibly wraith form to keep mana up? It should be a good option to replace Vet and stay at a range.
That is what I do. But for me just single target. With a slayer bow with HML you can run consume and use specials as long as you need.
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
I'd never play an Elf.

Masteries are based on your real skill. I don't see any point in putting 60 Bushido on this. Spreading points that thin and needing all that skill increase items, when you'll already be cramped mod wise trying to get 4/6 and dexxer stats on there.

I don't see the benefit of keeping at range. If you learn to position correctly it's more beneficial to melee and vet.

As above consume only works vs physical damage. Many high end things are not physical damage.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As above consume only works vs physical damage. Many high end things are not physical damage.
All the Peerless all the Spawn boss's do some physical damage. Only Stygian Dragon and Rikktor do 25% rest do 40% or more. Effusion and and Lich do 20% all types.
Corgul does 20% all types Dark Father also 20% all types.

Consume works fine on them. DF and friends kill pets for other reasons.

But this is more important:
Masteries are based on your real skill.
OP has nothing at real 120. Unless he is using Mace mastery (lol) he is not doing the damage he could do.
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
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Some is rarely enough to stay alive from. That's 80% of melee damage that isn't healing it. That's not a good use of your mana.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
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Stratics Legend
Some is rarely enough to stay alive from. That's 80% of melee damage that isn't healing it. That's not a good use of your mana.
And the OP does not have 120 taming and Lore so he can not use that so another matter.

I have always wanted to use a Vollum with my warrior. They changed them to 3 slot but I have experimented with builds that require only 20 taming/lore so my JaT can use it with no issues.

The pet would have Battle Defense. In theory it would cut your damage taken in half. You just have to keep the aggro off of the Vollum.

What do you think about that?
And Is there a 2 pet combo that one pet have the Battle Defense and a three slot tank?(warrior Tamer or Tampire :) )

A ram and a Triton at 3 slot may work. the Triton could get some str and discord.
 

Gb8719

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
And the OP does not have 120 taming and Lore so he can not use that so another matter.

I have always wanted to use a Vollum with my warrior. They changed them to 3 slot but I have experimented with builds that require only 20 taming/lore so my JaT can use it with no issues.

The pet would have Battle Defense. In theory it would cut your damage taken in half. You just have to keep the aggro off of the Vollum.

What do you think about that?
And Is there a 2 pet combo that one pet have the Battle Defense and a three slot tank?(warrior Tamer or Tampire :) )

A ram and a Triton at 3 slot may work. the Triton could get some str and discord.
That's a great idea. I'd prefer up to 4 slots so I could still use a Paroxy Dragon for damage reduction. With that build you could focus on taking damage and using your pets for additional damage and possibly discord/RC. I wonder if you could have both Discord and RC on two pets that are both 2 slots?
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
I think Battle Defense would be a waste, too many of it's abilities do nothing useful, wondering if you meant Feint for halving damage?

I think the idea of using two pets with this build is not a great idea personally. It's a busy template to play just fighting alongside the pet. Depending on what you're fighting obviously. I'm going to posit at a Champ Spawn for example, these are not high level by any stretch of the imagination but with varying levels are a good test of player skill, if you can't handle a spawn you're probably not ready for the next logical progression (Peerless? maybe)...

So two versions of this:
1. 2x defensive pets with less damage output plus you the player as a dexxer.
and
2. 1x 5 slot pet, like a Hiryu, Rune Beetle, GD, Fire Beetle, Triton, plus you the player as a dexxer.

With 1 your pets take longer to kill things, which means they take more damage, and they go off in separate directions and get stuck. Your ability for healnig them is limited to Chivalry or Vet which require close proximity and you can't be in two places at once. Two of the best functions of this template are that you can go be 'warrioring' at the same time as your pet fighting, in a spawn with two of everything (and assuming you're 4/6 as originally intended) you'll be switching in and out of EoO for every target and using your Chivalry to RC on you and pets, and possibly Cure them if they're fighting RC's. The other best function is to use pets as actual shields, standing underneath them while they take all the incoming until everything's nicely gathered up to WW/Hit Area/Guard. With weaker pets, and if two are getting hit at once, you may struggle to keep up with their Vetting.

With 2 by comparison you can leave your tankier pet knowing it's not going to die without constant attention, you can easily shield under it for WW'ing at level ups, and as you're not spending as much time looking after it you're more able to play the dexxer part of your template. On the final Champ it's much easier to set it up fighting one pet than two if you need to get it on the same tile to avoid re-targeting (Semidar for example).

If I were using lesser pets I'd probably prefer to tank with my player, in which case I may as well use 5 Frenzied and glass cannon it.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
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Stratics Legend
Oh well, thats why we have not come up with a 2 pet combo in 2 years. Body guard is part of Battle Defense. Tell pet to guard you and he puts body guard on you and he. 50% damage reduction while it is running.
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Oh well, thats why we have not come up with a 2 pet combo in 2 years. Body guard is part of Battle Defense. Tell pet to guard you and he puts body guard on you and he. 50% damage reduction while it is running.
Wow hadn't heard of that, that must be so easy to exploit.
 

Keven2002

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Wow hadn't heard of that, that must be so easy to exploit.
I'd have to assume this is like other masteries though and has to be cast right (which would be very random with a pet AI doing it)? If it's up and running the entire time then yea that seems like something to look into! :D
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
I'd have to assume this is like other masteries though and has to be cast right (which would be very random with a pet AI doing it)? If it's up and running the entire time then yea that seems like something to look into! :D
It'd be easy to test on TC, but I don't have the inclination to find out tbh, I would assume it's down to pet AI and therefore an unreliable cast, the alternative would just be silly.
 

chester rockwell

Sage
Stratics Veteran
I fiddle farted with the battle mastery for dmg reduction. It was more than annoying and unreliable to say the least. I gave up on it pretty fast tho.
 

Gb8719

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Just an update since I officially finished my character and I’m extremely happy with the performance and game play.

It’s maybe not an Uber powerful template like a samphire but it’s a unique play style and really shines as a support or solo character. Plus I’m a fan of not playing cookie cutter templates.

100 Archery (+20 with HH)
100 tactics (+10 with talisman)
90 vet (enhanced bandies)
100 lore (+15 jewelry)
90 taming (+30 jewelry)
100 hiding
50 bushido
90 chivalry

I tried going with Swords first and the damage was higher but the play style was more frantic. Archery works very well with sending your pet in to tank. Hiding at 100 allows me to drop aggro at 8 tiles. Healing is done with Chiv or potion if necessary or even confidence if the damage is low.

I run with a full set of slayer Yumi’s at max swing speed. Armor pierce increases pet damage slightly but I mostly rely on EoO and auto attack and consecrate weapon.

Currently using an AI/Chiv Cu. Going to train up an RC/AI giant or fire beetle next for the reduced resists.

Any additional tips or questions are welcome.
 

popps

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I can't fight crowds with him because my Toon needs Invised often.
@Pawain

I see that your Template does not have Magery.

Does that mean that you rely on Potions to inviso ?

If so, and you need to inviso "often", how many Potions do you need to carry each time ?
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@Pawain

I see that your Template does not have Magery.

Does that mean that you rely on Potions to inviso ?

If so, and you need to inviso "often", how many Potions do you need to carry each time ?
I carry them but I'm too slow to use them in crowds so I avoid crowds of mobs. Either fight at the edges or with others who can invis me as needed. I carry ten.
 

Lieutenant Dan!

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Here's one of my archer tamer templates
ArcherTamer.jpg

Go into wraith form to maintain constant mana
Heal with life leach, potions (noticed the comp bow is balanced) and chiv when needed.
I carry ivis potions as well.
It really deals out the damage with a good pet
 

Keven2002

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Just an update since I officially finished my character and I’m extremely happy with the performance and game play.

It’s maybe not an Uber powerful template like a samphire but it’s a unique play style and really shines as a support or solo character. Plus I’m a fan of not playing cookie cutter templates.

100 Archery (+20 with HH)
100 tactics (+10 with talisman)
90 vet (enhanced bandies)
100 lore (+15 jewelry)
90 taming (+30 jewelry)
100 hiding
50 bushido
90 chivalry

I tried going with Swords first and the damage was higher but the play style was more frantic. Archery works very well with sending your pet in to tank. Hiding at 100 allows me to drop aggro at 8 tiles. Healing is done with Chiv or potion if necessary or even confidence if the damage is low.

I run with a full set of slayer Yumi’s at max swing speed. Armor pierce increases pet damage slightly but I mostly rely on EoO and auto attack and consecrate weapon.

Currently using an AI/Chiv Cu. Going to train up an RC/AI giant or fire beetle next for the reduced resists.

Any additional tips or questions are welcome.
I'd probably drop hiding all together to save the 100 points and bump up the other skills (or add anatomy) and just carry invis potions. 100 points is a lot of commitment when you could have 120 archery/tactics/taming/lore in its place. You would need to run away 8 tiles to hide so running away 4 tiles to chug wouldn't be bad... you are using arrows so restocking is going to likely be frequent anyways so restocking pots also shouldn't be too bad.
 

Gb8719

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I'd probably drop hiding all together to save the 100 points and bump up the other skills (or add anatomy) and just carry invis potions. 100 points is a lot of commitment when you could have 120 archery/tactics/taming/lore in its place. You would need to run away 8 tiles to hide so running away 4 tiles to chug wouldn't be bad... you are using arrows so restocking is going to likely be frequent anyways so restocking pots also shouldn't be too bad.
I tried going with Invisible pots first for that exact reason.

The issue I ran into was that I didn’t want balanced on the bow so I would have to unequip it and then chug a potion. There was enough of a delay to make it risky and annoying. Also think of how many times you get pulled back out of hiding and have to repeat the process.

I would 100% swap hiding for anatomy if I plan on running something like Medusa with my guild.

The only other benefit to removing hiding would be having less skills on jewels so I can run more fc/for for my Chiv heals.
 

SwordofExcalibur

One of the last Rangers of Skara Brae
Supporter
Late to the fun discussion party. I enjoy using Invisible jewelry for my hide skill in game play.

I believe the goal of an Archer Tamer is to play the defensive back-line as a not-quite-really-a-glass-cannon Archer. I play with a Chiv/Ai/WW Triton at the moment. I also have a Chiv/WW PP Mare and an assortment of other pets.

Best case scenario for playing Tamer Archer and using/not using an invis source is to ensure you never get overwhelmed by 3+ foes. Thus, keeping at a good sniper distance is a key to the strategy.

I like to do champ spawns. If I'm solo, I like to:

1. use a magical short bow w/an AoE element. Lightning Arrow +AoE element are very successful for me. It gives me 3hits + aoe hits across the mob spawn.

2. use a pet with Whirlwind/Frenzied Whirlwind to produce AoE damage and keep mob hate.

3. use Close Wounds(FC3/FCR6) + VET to keep the pet stable. During this time, I can sneak up and heal or invis/heal, invis/run-away. Usually it's no trouble if I'm smart and don't put myself into a poor position of being overcome by more spawn. As long as your pet has all the aggro, you can slip in and heal bot the pet with ease. Except on a boss. That's a different strategy.

Bosses that de-aggro can be a pain with or without invis. I usually end up mounting a pet and running, to reset the fight. However, I tend to do as much dps as possible in the window I have by staying at max range of shooting distance and staying out of cleave areas of a boss. Then if a pet gets too low, I'll attempt heals, otherwise, mount-up and use my invis-jewlery.

Really, if I'm playing lazy and not paying attention, that's when I croak. Letting Stage 4 spawn over-whelm me or sending my pet off to attack without strategizing gets me killed. I just play smart and position. I back off when I need to and reset the fight. I mount a pet and escape and reset the fight. Or I will just let the pet die and run away and reset the fight using Vet.

Playing a Archer Tamer without invis just requires positioning practice. You certainly can't be lazy with the template when you have no source of Invis. I will just rely on my FC/heals or mount/heal/runaway. It may increase my playing time to do that, but it really doesn't bother me. If I solo a champ spawn boss without invis, it is a practice in patience. I don't normally do the roof or anything else without a form of Invis.

Speccing your gear to have fast heals is pretty great when you're not running invis. FC2/FCR6 at a minimum I think is important.

Conclusively, I mostly play Archer Tamer with Invis for the OOMPH you get with single target damage to a boss. Running two damage sources of Chiv/Ai easily eats things alive. It's great fun.

I had the idea of running a magery gear swap to cast invis. I haven't really tried it yet since I was happy with my set-up. Ideally, if you swapped to enough magery to succesfully cast invis from a scroll, that would help with having no invis on your template.

I tend to run with a pocket bard too. So, I'm set. o/
 
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