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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
Well, that is interesting. I wonder if it is only broken on Siege?
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DEVS: Why is the FACTION + NON FACTION could ally each others??
The small group of people I play with has nonfaction and faction guilds on about 13 shards (if I've counted correctly). They all used to be allied, but I think we've only got one alliance left to bust up on a shard that we haven't played on regularly for over a year.
Yes, it was nice when the guilds were allied to be able to use alliance chat and to see everyone's characters show up in green. However, I don't think anyone's really missed the benefits of being allied all that much. We generally use TeamSpeak when we do stuff as a group, as well as ICQ, and probably 95% of our PvP characters are in factions. If you're doing stuff together in Fel with faction and non-faction characters, you just have to be careful when you do certain things. And you need to kind of keep on top of whose characters are whose so you don't freak out when you see an unfamiliar blue or red name show up at the house or out in the field. (We're a small enough group that usually isn't a problem unless someone goes on a character-creating binge using crazy names and you're out of pocket while they're doing it. LOLOL)
I remember that shortly before we split up the alliances this spring, the nonfaction characters in the alliances couldn't be rezzed, healed, etc. by any characters outside of the alliances while they were in Fel. So, in a sense, they were being penalized or treated almost as if they were faction characters, except no skill loss if they died. It's nice to know that's no longer the case for our nonfaction characters.
I sympathize with the folks on Siege who are trying to figure out how to split up their allied guilds, since it sounds like they use alliance chat extensively for communication purposes. Good luck to you with reorganizing and hopefully someday you'll find a good mechanism for keeping everyone in touch, regardless of their faction status.
Yes, it was nice when the guilds were allied to be able to use alliance chat and to see everyone's characters show up in green. However, I don't think anyone's really missed the benefits of being allied all that much. We generally use TeamSpeak when we do stuff as a group, as well as ICQ, and probably 95% of our PvP characters are in factions. If you're doing stuff together in Fel with faction and non-faction characters, you just have to be careful when you do certain things. And you need to kind of keep on top of whose characters are whose so you don't freak out when you see an unfamiliar blue or red name show up at the house or out in the field. (We're a small enough group that usually isn't a problem unless someone goes on a character-creating binge using crazy names and you're out of pocket while they're doing it. LOLOL)
I remember that shortly before we split up the alliances this spring, the nonfaction characters in the alliances couldn't be rezzed, healed, etc. by any characters outside of the alliances while they were in Fel. So, in a sense, they were being penalized or treated almost as if they were faction characters, except no skill loss if they died. It's nice to know that's no longer the case for our nonfaction characters.
I sympathize with the folks on Siege who are trying to figure out how to split up their allied guilds, since it sounds like they use alliance chat extensively for communication purposes. Good luck to you with reorganizing and hopefully someday you'll find a good mechanism for keeping everyone in touch, regardless of their faction status.
Twist someone's arm to give it a try. I suspect it works fine there too, as long as you satisfy all the criteria. If it doesn't work with the silver amounts I posted, try doubling or tripling them just in case it costs more there. I do know you won't even get the faction blessing/hue gump if you're in the right spot and made something exceptional but don't have enough silver in your backpack.
For whatever it's worth, I just did a quick test with three characters on the shard where we still have allied faction and nonfaction guilds. Here were the results of a very very small test:
- In Trammel, the nonfaction and faction allied characters could heal each other. Forgot to test if a character outside the alliance could heal the faction character, but I assume it would work while in Trammel.
- In Fel, the faction character could heal the allied nonfaction character. However, the allied nonfaction character could NOT heal the blue allied faction character and also could NOT give her any pets (tried with an ordinary horse). For both healing and pet transfers from an allied nonfaction char to an allied faction character while in Fel, I got the "no beneficial acts" message.
- In Fel, a character completely outside the faction could heal a blue nonfaction character that belonged to the alliance. I didn't have time to test that the nonallied character could heal a blue faction character, but I'm assuming that is still not possible.
I didn't have time to test anything with field spells to see if nonfaction allied characters can walk through various types of fields cast by an allied faction character while in Fel. Don't have any red characters to mess around with.
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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
I believe that on Siege, you satisfy all the criteria but never get the gump. Honestly, that is the way we want it even though it was broken by accident.
I had no idea it still worked on other shards.
While you are at it please also consider including faction char walking thru two of the major weapon used in group fights, paralyze and poison fields, laid by nonfaction friends. Also maybe you want to include one that your nonfaction and faction EV dont flag eachother. oh yea and maybe one that your nonfaction and faction mixed necros can stand in the same spot and mass wither bomb and dont hit each other. Is there more? oh yea how about when your "nonfaction" mage fielders getting xheals from your "faction" mages safely hidden behind their fields LAID BY "NONFACTION" and when your "nonfaction" frontline mages take a death for your "faction" crew they can just run behind you and get a 3 second quick rez from anyone AND "faction" players with zero risk of be stated and will be back in full power in 3 second and start to lay down more fields. Maybe consider including the one where spellweaver using massive AoE EoW and TS and not hitting your own... how about some facts that using nonfaction mage tamers with GDs with fields laid at a choke points with GD on "all guard me" and dont get auto flagged by any of the super dragons when the "faction" hardcore players flee into your "nonfaction" fields. I can go all day... oh yea what about FACTION stealth archers standing and waiting in your massive NONFACTION fields just so when enemy gets low they can popout from those "NONFACTION" fields and "STAT" their enemies then flee back into "NONFACTION" fields again with zero chance of being caught by friendly fire...
Yes very little benefits indeed, wont be hard to make a video on those of above because those are common tactics used by most exploiting alliance anyways.
Video please!!!
thanks lets see some facts and the minimal benefits of all those above.But faction characters can heal anyone in their alliance including the nonfaction.
Other than energy field (duh) all other fiends can be used by faction and nonfaction guild in same alliance and not scratching each other. Faction reds can walk thru nonfaction fields laid by blue or red and dont get touched as long as the they are in the same alliance. This one is huge, and most choke point fights consists of para and poison fields anyways (at least for the better guild) so they can rush out and kill someone quickly if someone gets low. Energy field is only used to trap people in anyways.
omg this topic again?
there isnt much diff tween a non fac & non fac ally than a non fac & fac ally. In both cases u r allied so u dont attack each other. only diff is u can heal & rez if both r non fac, but if one of u is fac then only the fac can heal or rez the non fac, the non fac can not rez or heal the fac char.
as the non fac ppl cant go into the bases, they cant help there... & im sorry spawns r fair game so it shouldnt matter there as to whos allied to who.
so some used an exploit (i guess ud call it) to get a non fac & fac allied, but soem have been allied forever before it wasnt possible to do it.
yes the exploit should be fixed, but I dont c what the big deal is to have em allied. Its no diff than any other ally imo.
there isnt much diff tween a non fac & non fac ally than a non fac & fac ally. In both cases u r allied so u dont attack each other. only diff is u can heal & rez if both r non fac, but if one of u is fac then only the fac can heal or rez the non fac, the non fac can not rez or heal the fac char.
as the non fac ppl cant go into the bases, they cant help there... & im sorry spawns r fair game so it shouldnt matter there as to whos allied to who.
so some used an exploit (i guess ud call it) to get a non fac & fac allied, but soem have been allied forever before it wasnt possible to do it.
yes the exploit should be fixed, but I dont c what the big deal is to have em allied. Its no diff than any other ally imo.
It's no different than any other ally but an alliance by using this exploit gain some (many try to convince people it's minor) advantages in a supposed faction warfare.
I will repost my video request for JC here:
"While you are at it please also consider including faction char walking thru two of the major weapon used in group fights, paralyze and poison fields, laid by nonfaction friends. Also maybe you want to include one that your nonfaction and faction EV dont flag eachother. oh yea and maybe one that your nonfaction and faction mixed necros can stand in the same spot and mass wither bomb and dont hit each other. Is there more? oh yea how about when your "nonfaction" mage fielders getting xheals from your "faction" mages safely hidden behind their fields LAID BY "NONFACTION" and when your "nonfaction" frontline mages take a death for your "faction" crew they can just run behind you and get a 3 second quick rez from anyone AND "faction" players with zero risk of be stated and will be back in full power in 3 second and start to lay down more fields. Maybe consider including the one where spellweaver using massive AoE EoW and TS and not hitting your own... how about some facts that using nonfaction mage tamers with GDs with fields laid at a choke points with GD on "all guard me" and dont get auto flagged by any of the super dragons when the "faction" hardcore players flee into your "nonfaction" fields. I can go all day... oh yea what about FACTION stealth archers standing and waiting in your massive NONFACTION fields just so when enemy gets low they can popout from those "NONFACTION" fields and "STAT" their enemies then flee back into "NONFACTION" fields again with zero chance of being caught by friendly fire... "
Sorry for the text block since the advantages is very "minor".
Also faction fights rarely only happen in faction bases, it can be anywhere and usually in a city. Anyone can go into the city limit. And you must not faction much because if you did you would probably seem a big group of nonfaction players of course allied with faction GUARDING AND FIELDING the base entrance. To enter (or get out) the enemy faction would have fight thru oranges AND "unstatable" players thats helping guarding the entrance. While the enemy faction player will of course get caught in enemy fields but enemy faction players can freely going thru the fields laid by nonfaction friends. This tactic in execute usually result in a crossfire on the honest pure faction guild, where they get pushed from the OJs while the bluebies and reds are fielding behind them so there's no place for them to run to... Again that's a minor advantages right?
I dont "call it" an exploit, its stated by the DEV an exploit and DEV also suggested people to "leave such exploited alliance otherwise they would do it". Big or small, its still deemed an exploit by the game "designers".
This exploit can be used everywhere, cities, gates, spawns, harrys, and faction bases (limited access for the bluebies but as I said they can still create a death trap right on top of the entrance oh and there's only one(1) entrance to get in AND out of a faction base).
At lease I am glad you at least know an exploit should be fixed, and it's not a big deal for most people (and the exploiting alliance) but for many more PvP focused, smaller pure faction guild, enemies exploiting this exploit makes it extremely hard for them to compete, unless they also go low life and start to use the same exploit themselves, and many honorable factioneers refuse to do so. And I have never supported an exploit in my UO life and this one will be the same way.
Do you read my post? I dont think you did! You make it the opposite!
Ok. Let me state it more clear to you on 2 scenes:-
1. 1 faction guild, 1 non faction guild
faction guild red mages casts para fields
non faction guild people walk on it = get attacked
2. 1 faction guild, 1 non faction guild (ALLIED)
faction guild red mages casts para fields
non faction guild people walk on it = NO EFFECT
3. 1 faction guild, 1 non faction guild
faction guild tried to res non faction guild person (cannot res)
4. 1 faction guild, 1 non faction guild (ALLIED)
faction guild tried to res non faction guild person (CAN RES)
OK now. I just wanted to say. Please hush.
Thank you.
Stop defending an exploit/bug the DEVS stated ^___^
Alright, again I wanna post all the advantages of this EXPLOIT/BUG DEVs stated:-
1. Faction guild fields / non faction guild fields CANNOT HURT EACH OTHERS
2. NON faction guild die = no stat loss YET they can 100% fight alongside with their faction teammate. So means they could be meatshields on the front whilst their faction teammates RES THEM UP from behind and continue to be MEATSHIELD!
3. Faction teammates = take cheap shots AFTER the "allied" non factioners damage the opposite faction team members. End up opposing faction teammates get into 20 mins stat loss.
4. / 5. /6. etc... please refer on HUNTERXHUNTER post...
Alright, now for those who said this is very minimal advantages or no advantages at all. Please go and pvp more first before you yap your mouth.
Thank you.
DEVS would need a reply on this on when they would fix this bull$hit along with the remaining quiver of rages.
1. Faction guild fields / non faction guild fields CANNOT HURT EACH OTHERS
2. NON faction guild die = no stat loss YET they can 100% fight alongside with their faction teammate. So means they could be meatshields on the front whilst their faction teammates RES THEM UP from behind and continue to be MEATSHIELD!
3. Faction teammates = take cheap shots AFTER the "allied" non factioners damage the opposite faction team members. End up opposing faction teammates get into 20 mins stat loss.
4. / 5. /6. etc... please refer on HUNTERXHUNTER post...
Alright, now for those who said this is very minimal advantages or no advantages at all. Please go and pvp more first before you yap your mouth.
Thank you.
DEVS would need a reply on this on when they would fix this bull$hit along with the remaining quiver of rages.
Ok nope. Everything is nope.
NEVERMIND GALEN.
VERY SIMPLE
READ BELOW SENTENCE:-
"DEVS stated this is NOT intended and URGE everyone FREAKING GUILDS TO DROP THE ALLIANCE BEFORE THEY DO"
Do you understand what this sentence mean?
Can't you step aside and wait for it to be FIXED? ^__^
Thank you.
I know...I know...you can't compete in fel so you resort to house hiding and complaining about the legality of something that has no effect on your gameplay. *sadface*
Please be constructive and refrain yourself from using insulting terms if people's "reasoned" opinions you dont find pleasing. Try to point out that some of my arguments being wrong if you like.
Reported for trolling.
Go ahead and report me for trolling. While you are at it, please pay close attention to your posting and posting style. If anything your negativity and one sidedness effect the way others post. Hence my post nooby.
With reasoning one would assume you are open to others arguments, denying others of their opinions is far from reasonable.
Point out? I am in a faction alliance on two shards, three others I am not. Between the two type of alliances (one...actual allies, the other...unallied guilds working together)...I can tell you from personal experience that this "issue" isn't game breaking. With each example you state the extreme, but not the norm. This in effect skews any opinions that may be formed as a result of your *openness to reasoning*.
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RichDC
Guest
The norm is faction and non-faction guilds being able to set up a choke point against an invading faction group, the allies have free and easy access through that choke, the invaders obviously dont.
Now, the norm is also that when the invading factioners get low health the protected(by the non-faction meatshield) will rush out and attempt to stat the invading factioners putting them out of the fight for 20mins.
If any of the Meatshields die the norm will be a res from the protected factioners and back to fielding.
This is the norm in most fighting these days(despise faction bases, harries) and that cant be disputed.
When the alliance is broken this wont happen, these guilds will have to adapt and come up with a new tactic, rather than cheap tactics to put others out of the fight for an extensive period(20mins = despise start to finish and back up to level 2maybe 3).
Well...this is how it would turn out then. If the alliance system was nullified then all it would take is faction mages fielding chokes...while blue chars walked inside of them.
If your major gripe is friendly fire...perhaps you prefer turning friendly fire back on as a whole, rather than singling out faction alliances. It seems your gripe is centered on choke points...instead of faction fighting. Which IMO is a completely separate issue.
Second, if you are concerned about going stat...perhaps bring a non faction char into the fight...else leave factions if you dont want to suffer stat.
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RichDC
Guest
I dont care about stat on my faction chars, as the do faction fighting.
The norm for these fights, is NOT faction fighting. It is spawning and harrowers. That is fact.
Yes the blues could walk through fields however the majority of factioners(at least on GL anyways) are red as well...due to the fact they dont "faction fight" they spawn. So that argument is really a mute point.
The norm for these fights, is NOT faction fighting. It is spawning and harrowers. That is fact.
Yes the blues could walk through fields however the majority of factioners(at least on GL anyways) are red as well...due to the fact they dont "faction fight" they spawn. So that argument is really a mute point.
Yes, disbanning alliances IS INDEED a moot point and therefor the idea should just be scrapped.
If you really want change AS A WHOLE, the only FAIR answer would be to turn on friendly fire and allow faction/non-faction alliances.
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RichDC
Guest
I still dont see, nor has anyone made a valid point as to why they should be allowed to keep them???
If it doesnt affect peoples gameplay as its faction fighting, then why are there faction alliances roaming the spawns???
So, if it IS indeed only faction fighting why do they need an alliance with a non-faction???
There is no logical answer except they are looking to exploit the system.
If it doesnt affect peoples gameplay as its faction fighting, then why are there faction alliances roaming the spawns???
So, if it IS indeed only faction fighting why do they need an alliance with a non-faction???
There is no logical answer except they are looking to exploit the system.
Again, this is not a faction issue...but rather an issue with friendly fire. Second, spawns and choke point fighting are not faction issues...they are spawning issues. Third, if you are crashing or running a spawn and dont want to go into stat loss...use red chars or blue spawners.
Also, there is no exploit here, only legal use of implemented game mechanics. (see grandfathered homes for another example of this.)
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RichDC
Guest
You went on about the "norm" in an earlier post...Everyone knows the NORM is for faction guilds to spawn, not faction fight...hell the majority on almost every shard dont give a flying **** about the sigs, they want the arties to use for PvP.
If they didnt then why on every shard would the majority of the pvp guilds be factions?
All the while they are being used with non-faction allies to take and hold spawns and grinders they are an issue outside of "factions".
And, no exploit?? So Draconi is wrong?? Is that what your saying??
He's already stated they are exploited alliances.
Also, your "argument" makes no sense, if your worried about "faction" issues...then why are NON-FACTION GUILDS allies?They are not a "faction" issue either
Many things in this game can be perceived as liked or disliked. In this situation you (and others) choose to mix what ifs, hypotheticals, and non similar issues into one big grouping...which essentially nullifies any reasonable debate on the issue.
Again, your issue at heart is simply a matter of friendly fire, not the alliances OR factions themselves.
In regards to Draconi, I don't see him as all knowing. He is a man capable of making mistakes, just like you or me. Lets also not forget that he was/is a player...just like you or me. In addition, I have seen many a skewed change take place due to the *ideas* of our players.
*chuckles*
Just put me on ignore; you don't actually read my posts anyway, or if you do you don't understand them.
If you did you'd see that I changed my mind.
-Galen's player
Just put me on ignore; you don't actually read my posts anyway, or if you do you don't understand them.
If you did you'd see that I changed my mind.
-Galen's player
You're a bit late, mod. The insults started 2 days ago, assuming it still counts when I'm the target.
-Galen's player
Rich you've been spot on. If it wasn't a big deal then no one would be crying to defend this "bug" as draconi said.
The fact is if anyone flags if it were two seperate guilds it would cause chaos from fields and/or aoe.
To link what someone said before about bene acts and healing. You're making sound as if they are saying non-faction CAN heal faction. He was saying it was an advantage that FACTION can heal the non-faction because of the alliance the blues don't go bene to them. Don't try to twist it around, people are saying that it works that way, not that non-faction can res faction.
Fact is it does make a difference and if all of you are saying it doesn't then take Draconis word and break your alliance before EA does it for. Quit your crying and move on.
Yea I noticed that, many people said to use the exploit to get away from having the "proper" bene acts. It makes all blues and red nonfaction chars fully xhealable/rezzable 100% of the time when the game designed to have bene (heals/rezzes from faction to nonfaction) when a nonfaction char is flagged to a faction char.
Many exploit supporters are trying to twist what people are saying by stating the opposite and while steer away from the truth. (nonfaction char in alliance is exploited into 100% xhealable/rezzable by faction)
And saying the conditions I mentioned as "not NORM" as in rarely ever happens, I see such thing happen at least several times on DAILY basis. Maybe those people play on a quiet shard? At least on ATL if you arent purposely trying to play UO blind folded you see it happening. And it almost ALWAYS happen at a spawn, and also almost always at a harry. Sometimes at gate, sometimes in cities and sometimes at strongholds. unless your NORM is "happening more than 20 to 100 times a day" otherwise the situation I stated is NORM for most real active PvP shards. Normally I can count 5 to 10 "real" fights a day where one or multiple of the situations I stated will happen.
The exploit is used on daily bases, and is a common practice for many guilds.
Many exploit supporters are trying to twist what people are saying by stating the opposite and while steer away from the truth. (nonfaction char in alliance is exploited into 100% xhealable/rezzable by faction)
And saying the conditions I mentioned as "not NORM" as in rarely ever happens, I see such thing happen at least several times on DAILY basis. Maybe those people play on a quiet shard? At least on ATL if you arent purposely trying to play UO blind folded you see it happening. And it almost ALWAYS happen at a spawn, and also almost always at a harry. Sometimes at gate, sometimes in cities and sometimes at strongholds. unless your NORM is "happening more than 20 to 100 times a day" otherwise the situation I stated is NORM for most real active PvP shards. Normally I can count 5 to 10 "real" fights a day where one or multiple of the situations I stated will happen.
The exploit is used on daily bases, and is a common practice for many guilds.
Thank you for your support.
I would now like to see DEVS reply on when they would put in a publish to fix this bug.
Anyways, I would also like to see GMs ban or suspend anyone currently in thsi alliance status.
Because knowing a bug and still use it = illegal
S
Scratch
Guest
when is there going to be a dev respond to this thread on a time frame for a fix
S
Scratch
Guest
Still waiting for an official response on this matter.....
having blueberries set you up for the kill and getting a faction ally to come get the kill shot for stat loss is lame and pathetic trammy pvp.....they have overpowered artifacts and mounts they can rez with a bandaid and no vet skill required....how strong are factioneers going to be allowed to get and why is the level pvp field (factions) being forced on us that dont wish to play the geared based item vs item pvp. normal pvpers are not outgeared in everyway....short of joining factions by a forced hand.....
having blueberries set you up for the kill and getting a faction ally to come get the kill shot for stat loss is lame and pathetic trammy pvp.....they have overpowered artifacts and mounts they can rez with a bandaid and no vet skill required....how strong are factioneers going to be allowed to get and why is the level pvp field (factions) being forced on us that dont wish to play the geared based item vs item pvp. normal pvpers are not outgeared in everyway....short of joining factions by a forced hand.....
all pvp is item v item. If you disagree you're drunk or never played skill based UO..
As for the alliance system. Blue guilds should not be allowed to ally oj guilds.
The major examples being HoT/Heat on atlantic exploiting this system and L*D/Meatshields alliance on legends exploiting this system.
As for the alliance system. Blue guilds should not be allowed to ally oj guilds.
The major examples being HoT/Heat on atlantic exploiting this system and L*D/Meatshields alliance on legends exploiting this system.
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Scratch
Guest
yeah i know its item vs item based
has been for awhile now....but now we have buffed artifacts to contend with..... and lousy blue/oj tactics......this is something that needs immediate attn....either they want to play factions or they dont....make them make up their minds and stop blatently exploiting for the advantage....
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
So you would punish an entire group of people who would like to play together simply because they have a poor leader? of course then the leader of the guild usually holds gm in both allied guilds and this of course means more than one account, so really....you are not hurting anyone with a suspension. Well I had to do something while typing this so I do not remember what the rest of my post was going to be *shrugs*