DEV'S: Overpowered?

[Llewen]

Experience, wealth, communities, friendships, knowledge, memories, etc.

If these things aren't enough for you and you need further advantages over a n00b, then you're the one truly missing whats important in the game.

Those who stick around get other rewards anyway...resources, money, community, friends, experience, memories, fun times, etc.

If that really isn't enough for you, but also need an content-wise "one up" on returning and new players, then there's something really sad going on with you.

That sounds like "motherhood and apple pie", and in a way it is, but I'm also a gamer that plays the game for the sake of the game itself. I want to have items and achievements that are worth playing for. If everyone can get everything within a week of joining, the gaming part of the equation becomes meaningless and empty. And really gold by itself is also completely meaningless unless you have something worth spending it on.

Not only that, but those good things you list, "community, friends, experience, memories, fun times", those good things are built around the game, not the other way around. There wasn't this massive community of friends, laughter and sunflowers and someone decided to build a game around it.

No, the game was created, and all those good things happened because that game was created. If the game isn't worth playing, if there is no point to playing the game because everything is simply handed to you, all those good things disappear, or fail to be created in the first place.

At the heart of this discussion is pvp. Great, if everyone can get everything easily, then we can all go out and pvp and have a good time. Newsflash - There is much more to UO than pvp. I love pvp, but I also happen to love pvm, and I also love building suits for both of them. And if everything comes easily, and there is nothing that is rare and hard to obtain, that is actually useful, then all that fun I have planning for, working for, and creating suits disappears.

It's hard to argue against someone who starts throwing around words like, "community, friends, experience, memories, fun times". But the simple truth is that those things simply don't exist without a UO that is worth playing, and at the heart of a game worth playing, is challenge and the struggle to become more than you are, and in UO unless there are items worth having that are a challenge to get, much of the game is destroyed, along with that essential impetus that results in "community, friends, experience, memories" and "fun times".

 

[dum3886]

I actually have a idea how long it will take them to earn 50mil or 5mil. Lets see if they just started there main focus will be to hunt lizardmen and cats and dogs and mongbats while they move up in game. This is to increase there skills. If they can finish there skills in in a week that means there not a new player and decided to shortcut the way. This point then would be mute.

So eventually after much killing they made enough gold to get a luna vender 20k a week or free if you get friendly people. If they joined a guild they will have 50mil in days. But this is assuming they are a loner. So now he has a luna vender what can he sell well all that time killing lizardmen he should of cut there hides and sold them also continue looting for better items. Slowly each sweet sword he gets gets better and better as he kills stronger and stronger monsters placing leather on venders selling for nice high amounts. He hits tokuno and sell all those ingredients for imbuing for loads of gold while having fun in the proccess.

Sooner or later he will get strong enough to go on ishnear/tok champ spawns looting sot and all that gold they drop on the ground. He will eventually hit replicas as a drop and able to sell these things on his vender for 10's of millions. Now he has all this gold and have no idea what to do with it. Well he decides to make crafters and make his own equipment so he trains imbuing and blacksmith and tailoring. He started with imbuing first and now using all the resources he looted from abyss he can make his own sweet sword. Of course he relize there is no such thing as a sweet sword that cost 50mil and would of being scammed if he did payed for it in the beggining, but He never needed to pay a dime for his sweet sword. Now hes content and on to his next challenge. In the mean time ea gets his subscription fees and he always have something to look forward to later. This is the life of a real new player.

The life of a fake new player. Has already everything he ever needs cause hes being around a long time. Started another account and is supplied by his main account. The End.\

The life of a returning vet. Already knows everything needed about the game. Already knows how to make gold. Takes him less than 2 weeks to go from 2k to 60mil. The end.

lol yes... 2 weeks for people like u with no lives.

I came back around 3 yrs ago and within about a yr and a half i had about 1.5 bill worth of equity (including suits etc..) but that was bcz i used to play ages ago i knew how to macro 6x120 skills in a week i was also lucky to be in a relativly unpopulated shard so events i could make 300-400 mill (rubble event) in a day etc...

but HAH 60mill for a newbie... yeah not every1 lives in UO my friend...

I have since quit UO... but even if i considered coming back.. yes the item barrier will be a big wall for me. Especially now with imbuing etc... the old times of hunting for nice items and selling them is over when people will just imbue everything. not everyone wants to hunt for ****ty leather and sell it. A lot of people who come back come back purely for pvp not to sit around a dungeon bashing a wall 24/7. Only 2-3 years ago i could make a suit with 5-10 mill and i'll be on even grounds with most people(sure no 100%LRC etc.. but that is livable). Now u need wat 200-400mill maybe? even i noticed b4 i quit.. my suit would ahve been worth 300mill easy...

Thats y im praying for a classic shard.. i'm willing to wait a yr for their decision there isn't one by the end of the yr... farewell UO EA for ever.... Hello Free Shards.

 

[UOKaiser]

That sounds like "motherhood and apple pie", and in a way it is, but I'm also a gamer that plays the game for the sake of the game itself. I want to have items and achievements that are worth playing for. If everyone can get everything within a week of joining, the gaming part of the equation becomes meaningless and empty. And really gold by itself is also completely meaningless unless you have something worth spending it on.

Not only that, but those good things you list, "community, friends, experience, memories, fun times", those good things are built around the game, not the other way around. There wasn't this massive community of friends, laughter and sunflowers and someone decided to build a game around it.

No, the game was created, and all those good things happened because that game was created. If the game isn't worth playing, if there is no point to playing the game because everything is simply handed to you, all those good things disappear, or fail to be created in the first place.

At the heart of this discussion is pvp. Great, if everyone can get everything easily, then we can all go out and pvp and have a good time. Newsflash - There is much more to UO than pvp. I love pvp, but I also happen to love suit pvm, and I also love building suits for both of them. And if everything comes easily, and there is nothing that is rare and hard to obtain, that is actually useful, then all that fun I have planning for, working for, and creating suits disappears.

It's hard to argue against someone who starts throwing around words like, "community, friends, experience, memories, fun times". But the simple truth is that those things simply don't exist without a UO that is worth playing, and at the heart of a game worth playing, is challenge and the struggle to become more than you are, and in UO unless there are items worth having that are a challenge to get, much of the game is destroys, along with that essential impetus that results in "community, friends, experience, memories" and "fun times".

I just can't say it better myself. You spoke every word and every feeling and every thought I have for this topic. You put it perfectly. If someone cannot get this point then really there is no hope for them in UO and no hope for UO if DEV. listen to them.

 

[UOKaiser]

lol yes... 2 weeks for people like u with no lives.

I came back around 3 yrs ago and within about a yr and a half i had about 1.5 bill worth of equity (including suits etc..) but that was bcz i used to play ages ago i knew how to macro 6x120 skills in a week i was also lucky to be in a relativly unpopulated shard so events i could make 300-400 mill (rubble event) in a day etc...

but HAH 60mill for a newbie... yeah not every1 lives in UO my friend...

Lives in UO. Funny no lives either heh even more funny. So this includes you who came back and made 5bill right? Some people can't be blessed like me who proffession is always on computers but you put the time and you get the reward. If you only have 1 hour to play a week then expect to have 1 hour worth of items,skill and power a week.

I said a newbie will take time like it supposed to. A veteran will take 2 weeks or so. So we shouldn't just give everything to a newbie so he have as much as a 10 year veteran in the first few days don;t you think. Might as well test center all the shards and shut UO down once every one gets bored.

 

[dum3886]

THere is a difference between earning a good suit and being at a major disadvantage. UO a game based on skill and even today it is to an extent.

Take 2 pvp mages... both the IDENTICAL SUITS... if mage 1 is just **** and mage 2 is a seasoned pvper.. mage 1 will always lose hands down...

What has happened now are items r becoming SO powerful that if you do NOT have a 100+ mill suit.. u lose not bcz u r ****.. but bcz u just dun have a 100+ mill suit... end of story.

Take an dexxer with a SSI DI FC1 HLD 45% fireball lets say katana.... now put that against a returning vet mage with a 5mill junk suit.... even if the dexxer is the ****test player in the world he will always win.

After a few days good bye... wat a waste of time...

Uo has changed for the worse, why play a game with **** graphics(not saying its **** i love it actually lol) when u can just play WoW which is just the same but better lol... UO has been ruined by items.


ALSO

No 3 yrs ago a vet can get straight into the game within 2 weeks not now... and when did i say i made 5 bill... i had maybe 1.5 in items/cash total where 500 mill came from that rubble event. Maybe a 100-200 mill came from macroing demons... yes illegal.. did i care? no bcz the game has become so item based and the GMs did nothing why not exploit bags of sending lol.(If the GM's don't even bother/care enough to check if u r macroing and you never get caught... u have done nothing wrong ) The rest came from pvping power scrolls etc... so no i did not spend all day playing i pvped and the cash came with it... in my entire time i did about 5 peerless... i was lucky enough to get my CC on my 2nd one and I never felt the need to go back

 

[UOKaiser]

THere is a difference between earning a good suit and being at a major disadvantage. UO a game based on skill and even today it is to an extent.

Take 2 pvp mages... both the IDENTICAL SUITS... if mage 1 is just **** and mage 2 is a seasoned pvper.. mage 1 will always lose hands down...

What has happened now are items r becoming SO powerful that if you do NOT have a 100+ mill suit.. u lose not bcz u r ****.. but bcz u just dun have a 100+ mill suit... end of story.

Take an dexxer with a SSI DI FC1 HLD 45% fireball lets say katana.... now put that against a returning vet mage with a 5mill junk suit.... even if the a is the ****test player in the world he will always win.

After a few days good bye... wat a waste of time...

Uo has changed for the worse, why play a game with **** graphics(not saying its **** i love it actually lol) when u can just play WoW which is just the same but better lol... UO has been ruined by items.

And to the Kaiser...


No 3 yrs ago a vet can get straight into the game within 2 weeks not now... and when did i say i made 5 bill... i had maybe 1.5 in items/cash total where 500 mill came from that rubble event. Maybe a 100-200 mill came from macroing demons... yes illegal.. did i care? no bcz the game has become so item based and the GMs did nothing why not exploit bags of sending lol. The rest came from pvping power scrolls etc... so no i did not spend all day playing i pvped and the cash came with it... in my entire time i did about 5 peerless... i was lucky enough to get my CC on my 2nd one and I never felt the need to go back

This is what everyone has to remmeber this isn't a pvp game or pvm game this is a sandbox. They built the world you decide what to make of it. Even in the earlier dev. notes they stated they wanted to have as little interaction to the world and let people make the choices.
If someone has a 100 mil suit and someone has a 100k suit then logic dictates the 100k suit should avoid the battle. If that 100k suit player has vet knowledge compare to a newbie with 100mil suit then why in the world does the vet have a 100k suit? Did he forget how to make gold or something? Did he forget how to aquire suits? Hell what constitutes a 100mil suit anymore when it takes no time at all to get your own for almost free.

Besides the prices are dictated by the players. A 100mil suit on production is 10mil on siege. Not to mention imbuing had made every non dedicated or interested crafting player a self expert in crafting there own super suits. This angers me greatly as players that enjoy there UO game by crafting are pushed aside by 5min imbuers.

Oh WOW sucks. It's a strategic game not a sandbox. WOW has only a few classes balanced between each other for strategic purposes. UO is a RPG where you can be and do what you want. When the day comes you stuck in templates,classes,skills is the day the last of the vets leave.

 

[MiNi MaGi]

This is what everyone has to remmeber this isn't a pvp game or pvm game this is a sandbox. They built the world you decide what to make of it. Even in the earlier dev. notes they stated they wanted to have as little interaction to the world and let people make the choices.
If someone has a 100 mil suit and someone has a 100k suit then logic dictates the 100k suit should avoid the battle. If that 100k suit player has vet knowledge compare to a newbie with 100mil suit then why in the world does the vet have a 100k suit? Did he forget how to make gold or something? Did he forget how to aquire suits? Hell what constitutes a 100mil suit anymore when it takes no time at all to get your own for almost free.

Besides the prices are dictated by the players. A 100mil suit on production is 10mil on siege. Not to mention imbuing had made every non dedicated or interested crafting player a self expert in crafting there own super suits. This angers me greatly as players that enjoy there UO game by crafting are pushed aside by 5min imbuers.

Oh WOW sucks. It's a strategic game not a sandbox. WOW has only a few classes balanced between each other for strategic purposes. UO is a RPG where you can be and do what you want. When the day comes you stuck in templates,classes,skills is the day the last of the vets leave.

well put

 

[MiNi MaGi]

THere is a difference between earning a good suit and being at a major disadvantage. UO a game based on skill and even today it is to an extent.

Take 2 pvp mages... both the IDENTICAL SUITS... if mage 1 is just **** and mage 2 is a seasoned pvper.. mage 1 will always lose hands down...

What has happened now are items r becoming SO powerful that if you do NOT have a 100+ mill suit.. u lose not bcz u r ****.. but bcz u just dun have a 100+ mill suit... end of story.

Take an dexxer with a SSI DI FC1 HLD 45% fireball lets say katana.... now put that against a returning vet mage with a 5mill junk suit.... even if the dexxer is the ****test player in the world he will always win.

After a few days good bye... wat a waste of time...

Uo has changed for the worse, why play a game with **** graphics(not saying its **** i love it actually lol) when u can just play WoW which is just the same but better lol... UO has been ruined by items.


ALSO

No 3 yrs ago a vet can get straight into the game within 2 weeks not now... and when did i say i made 5 bill... i had maybe 1.5 in items/cash total where 500 mill came from that rubble event. Maybe a 100-200 mill came from macroing demons... yes illegal.. did i care? no bcz the game has become so item based and the GMs did nothing why not exploit bags of sending lol.(If the GM's don't even bother/care enough to check if u r macroing and you never get caught... u have done nothing wrong ) The rest came from pvping power scrolls etc... so no i did not spend all day playing i pvped and the cash came with it... in my entire time i did about 5 peerless... i was lucky enough to get my CC on my 2nd one and I never felt the need to go back

idk what your buying but my mage suits dont cost anything near 100mil... and its pretty sad when people say "why play this **** game thats item based, lets just go play WOW. AND ITS BEEN ITEM BASED FOR OVER 6 YEARS? and go play wow and get the **** off our forums.

and who the **** doesnt have 100mil these days? new players? returning vets? so your saying that the people who didnt quit cant have higher end items that they worked for?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

so your saying that the people who didnt quit cant have higher end items that they worked for?

No, I think what he is trying to say is that it is silly that you need hundreds of millions of gold in order to be competitive...even if it is easy to get.

The hyper inflation in UO is symptomatic of the problems AoS and the subsequent expansions have caused.

I understand where he is coming from. No need to tell someone to get off "your" forums just because they have a differing opinion. I am quite sure that I don't agree with what many people say here...and I am sure many people don't agree with what I say...but I don't think any one particular ideology should control a forum that is supposed to be open to all.

 

[Aran]

Wahh, I need to invest lots of time and materials to be good at a thing.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Between faction artifacts and imbuing you can make a good suit for like 5mil. Why does everyone insist on saying you need 100+mil. Even before imbuing I've made suits for many shards for 3-5mil thanks to factions.

As far people claiming uo is item based and not skill based, why is it that when everyone has access to the exact same items the same players are always the ones coming out on top?

If you can scrap together 5mil and you think it's not skill based[probably because you thought you were once good and couldn't adapt] perhaps you should try out a more player friendly game where everyone gets a trophy for trying.

 

[Konge]

Between faction artifacts and imbuing you can make a good suit for like 5mil. Why does everyone insist on saying you need 100+mil. Even before imbuing I've made suits for many shards for 3-5mil thanks to factions.

As far people claiming uo is item based and not skill based, why is it that when everyone has access to the exact same items the same players are always the ones coming out on top?

If you can scrap together 5mil and you think it's not skill based[probably because you thought you were once good and couldn't adapt] perhaps you should try out a more player friendly game where everyone gets a trophy for trying.

When they say item based, it's not player skill, it's skills, you know, swordsmanship. **** like that. You know, the fact that apples and tboxes replace resist spells on most templates.

And I've been saying that these "Uber" items aren't "needed" and you can do fine, better than fine, by actually using knowledge to find work arounds (like getting 5dci or 2mr on some place OTHER than a robe and opting for the shroud of the condemned or thread robe, ect.)

But people are too busy worried about what they missed out. It's like we're in preschool and Johny got the only firetruck and you really wanna be a firefighter, so you go to the blackboard and write "Firetrucks, overpowered?"

Now I'm not trying to make a hit on the OP, just exaggerating a point. If you stop worrying about what you have not, you can actually play the game.

Contrary to popular belief, Dread mares and conjurors (insert piece here) don't "win uo." You can live with out it, people lived before it, hell, a lot of people don't even use em.

 

[dum3886]

Between faction artifacts and imbuing you can make a good suit for like 5mil. Why does everyone insist on saying you need 100+mil. Even before imbuing I've made suits for many shards for 3-5mil thanks to factions.

As far people claiming uo is item based and not skill based, why is it that when everyone has access to the exact same items the same players are always the ones coming out on top?

If you can scrap together 5mil and you think it's not skill based[probably because you thought you were once good and couldn't adapt] perhaps you should try out a more player friendly game where everyone gets a trophy for trying.

If you think u can make a character with 3-5 mill lol.. u r
1. in a zerging guild where u add 1% to what is happening.
2. u dun pvp at all lol.
3. u pvp against newbies.

Sure i can kill newbies who can't play a mage easy without any armour just jewellery and spell book... but once u get to people with skills u need to be on par with them item wise.. or at least close or u will just get dominated over and over and over again.

Ohh and 3-5 mill.. that won't even buy u the scrolls u would want.

 

[Llewen]

Between faction artifacts and imbuing you can make a good suit for like 5mil. Why does everyone insist on saying you need 100+mil. Even before imbuing I've made suits for many shards for 3-5mil thanks to factions.

Contrary to popular belief, Dread mares and conjurors (insert piece here) don't "win uo." You can live with out it, people lived before it, hell, a lot of people don't even use em.

I have a tamer that pvp's quite a lot, and I very rarely use his dread mare. Why? Because it doesn't kill fast enough for my liking. And Truth is right, with faction items you can put together a very respectable pvp suit in a pretty short time, without spending hundreds of millions in gold. Scrolls are another matter, but as is the case with anything, they come with time. And that's the way it should be...

 

[Derium of ls]

Between faction artifacts and imbuing you can make a good suit for like 5mil. Why does everyone insist on saying you need 100+mil. Even before imbuing I've made suits for many shards for 3-5mil thanks to factions.

As far people claiming uo is item based and not skill based, why is it that when everyone has access to the exact same items the same players are always the ones coming out on top?

If you can scrap together 5mil and you think it's not skill based[probably because you thought you were once good and couldn't adapt] perhaps you should try out a more player friendly game where everyone gets a trophy for trying.

because if I PvP naked and you wear a "top of the line" suit, who will win 100% of the time? YOU. the person with the ITEMS. that's what an item based game is about.

I was a high warlord on WoW before I quit, and the more gear I got the more I rolled over people... why? cause no PvPer stood a single chance against my gear unless they also spent 12 weeks at 60 hours a week to get high warlord/grand marshal... that's not fair at all. that's what an Item based games does.

the more you are REQUIRED to match an item for an item means less skill is involved. now if both players have the exact same thing on then yes, it's skill based fight, but for that to happen...

and that's what UO has been doing more and more and more. I'm co-owner of the Lake Superior Mage Tower and we did a TON of PvP, I normally wore a kilt when I fought, all it took me to get on even field with the other people was to work on my characters skills. Now I'm forced to learn crafting, complex math charts, game mechanics of caps vs resists, the current Luna market, download stupid calculators for certain skills/items, make a new character for imbuing, PvM for crafting supplies... all to ****ing PvP on an "even field".


everyone knows that in an item based game if the company doesn't put in endless grinds for the players to do, the game will fail. in a sandbox game the company has to give players options and freewill to do what they want, or they fail. I'm pretty sure every stupid thing I have to do to make a PvP suit is a long ass grind in UO now, before I ran to glow to buy 50 of each reg... Done

 

[Llewen]

the more you are REQUIRED to match an item for an item means less skill is involved. now if both players have the exact same thing on then yes, it's skill based fight, but for that to happen...

Nonsense. There are different kinds of skills, and suit building is a skill. Managing your time and resources to put together that killer suit, is a skill. And it is also nonsense that two players have to have the exact same suit to compete on the same level. There are all kinds of options for putting together a suit that will allow you to compete in pvp, some of them may give you a bit of an edge, but none of them take the skill out of pvp, or give someone who is incompetent a chance to beat a skilled player.

You want a classic shard, great, we get that. I don't. I like UO the way it is, and I'm looking forward to what is to come. And no, I'm not extravagantly wealthy, and my suit is nice, but I worked hard to put it together, and that's the way I like it. And it doesn't look exactly the same as every other high end suit, and I like that as well. I'm not as skilled as some, and I'm more skilled than others, but I don't win or lose solely based on the quality of my suit. It helps, but it certainly doesn't take the "skill" out of the equation.

 

[dum3886]

I have a tamer that pvp's quite a lot, and I very rarely use his dread mare. Why? Because it doesn't kill fast enough for my liking. And Truth is right, with faction items you can put together a very respectable pvp suit in a pretty short time, without spending hundreds of millions in gold. Scrolls are another matter, but as is the case with anything, they come with time. And that's the way it should be...

U hit it perfectly... ur a tamer... off course u dun need a 100 mill suit.. u just need a bola, smoke bomb and a way to heal... while if u r a seasoned pvper i.e: a mage.. now thats a diff story.

Mages on the other hand need/would be nice to have HCI DCI HLD LMC LRC (preferably not needed but is nice to have 90%+)

Optionals: Hit fireball SC -20 mage weapon etc.... the list goes on.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Yeah, becoming a great bowler is easy. You show up, they tie your shoes for you, pick out your ball, and throw it for you.

Then, you win the championship, and life is good! Bowling alleys stay in business, and everyone wins! And when I mean everyone...I mean everyone. Everyone who walks through the door of the bowling alley gets a trophy for being Top Bowler

Bad example, someone from our town went and tried Bowling for the first time, he scored extremely high and was great at it, he participated in the local tournament the day after and won it. He came second place in the national championship, 3rd in the European championship.

In Bowling there's no veteran rewards, no "wait X years and you may now use the right ball", etc.

That's why it's so easy to make $150K a year...you go to get a job...actually...the businesses line up at YOUR door. No effort required...they line up, hire you, they do your work, and you collect the check! YAY!!

That's why it's so easy to become so good at ANY sport; teams train you, run your wind sprints...and they play the game for you. Then, you get a Super Bowl ring, as does every football player on Game Day (and, if they can't be there for the game...they can just buy one at the NFL Super Store) After all...becoming a Super Bowl player is hard, so they should make it easier for players to get the rings from the big events...otherwise no one will want to play football anymore.

You can't win money and fame from UO either...but UO isn't a sport, even comparing it to such is ludicrous. UO isn't a life long dream that can replace your RL job (unless you cheat)

"The "Staples" Line of Games...They're so easy...even YOU can compete!!"

Its called "Most MMOs out there".

 

[Llewen]

U hit it perfectly... ur a tamer... off course u dun need a 100 mill suit.. u just need a bola, smoke bomb and a way to heal... while if u r a seasoned pvper i.e: a mage.. now thats a diff story.

And you have no idea what you are talking about. If you want to suck as a tamer in pvp, and most do, sure you don't have to put any effort into building your suit. My tamer doesn't suck.

My tamer actually has a pretty decent mage suit, let me tell you about my tamer and his suit:

100 lrc
40 lmc
6/2 casting
11 mr
70 dci
resists: 67, 85, 63, 64, 71
one handed mage weapon
35 points in skills (including the -20 for the mage weapon)
10 sdi
25 ep
various stats and other mods

120 magery, 120 eval int, 120 resisting spells, 120 taming, 110 animal lore, 90 vet, 20 med (yes this is a weakness)

I'll put my suit and template up against any other suit or template out there. It isn't the best, but it certainly is competitive, and probably it is better than most. It took me quite a bit of effort over three years to put this suit and template together, and I like that. But I was competitive long before my suit was "finished".

I pvp with this suit, and I am also effective in pvm, and this tamer is a real tamer, ie. I actually tame with this character, and farm and sell pets.

You can take your anti-tamer snobbery and put it where the sun don't shine sunny bubbles...

 

[Lord Chaos]

Not to mention imbuing had made every non dedicated or interested crafting player a self expert in crafting there own super suits. This angers me greatly as players that enjoy there UO game by crafting are pushed aside by 5min imbuers.

Because yeah, just getting the tens of thousands of residue and gems needed to train imbuing + powerscrolls is easy.

Then getting the ingredients for the actual imbuing and failing 50 times in a row on a single item.

Then when you finally create the item, it can't be POF'ed and it can't have self repair, so they're very finite in their existance, especially when used a lot.

 

[Llewen]

but UO isn't a sport, even comparing it to such is ludicrous.

Nonsense. UO has as much value as any sport or hobby, and takes just as much skill and dedication to play well. To say otherwise simply exposes your own personal bias.

 

[Lord Chaos]

That sounds like "motherhood and apple pie", and in a way it is, but I'm also a gamer that plays the game for the sake of the game itself. I want to have items and achievements that are worth playing for. If everyone can get everything within a week of joining, the gaming part of the equation becomes meaningless and empty. And really gold by itself is also completely meaningless unless you have something worth spending it on.

Getting everything within a week of playing has never been contended here, its a discussion about things that cannot be achieved anymore because they only existed for a brief time or are time specific things like +5 stat cap and +20 skill cap.

Either way, you're not really affected by a new player having the ability to get a +20 skill cap increase or work their way up to get a Dread Mare.

Not only that, but those good things you list, "community, friends, experience, memories, fun times", those good things are built around the game, not the other way around. There wasn't this massive community of friends, laughter and sunflowers and someone decided to build a game around it.

No, the game was created, and all those good things happened because that game was created. If the game isn't worth playing, if there is no point to playing the game because everything is simply handed to you, all those good things disappear, or fail to be created in the first place.

Which matters why? It doesn't matter what came first, its there and you're getting it as a veteran player, this is something a new player cannot match you in and that should be more important than the 50 million gold suit. But if you want to one-up the new players as well on everything else, then you're a sad player indeed.

At the heart of this discussion is pvp. Great, if everyone can get everything easily, then we can all go out and pvp and have a good time. Newsflash - There is much more to UO than pvp. I love pvp, but I also happen to love pvm, and I also love building suits for both of them. And if everything comes easily, and there is nothing that is rare and hard to obtain, that is actually useful, then all that fun I have planning for, working for, and creating suits disappears.

Its not really hard to obtain today, simply swipe a credit card on certain sites and voila, you have a perfect suit.

It's hard to argue against someone who starts throwing around words like, "community, friends, experience, memories, fun times". But the simple truth is that those things simply don't exist without a UO that is worth playing, and at the heart of a game worth playing, is challenge and the struggle to become more than you are, and in UO unless there are items worth having that are a challenge to get, much of the game is destroyed, along with that essential impetus that results in "community, friends, experience, memories" and "fun times".

Its funny how UO managed to have community and friends back before it was item based, lol.

Either way, experiences and knowledge are definitely not meaningless either way.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Hate to break it to you, but MMO's always require a lot of time if you always want to be up-to-date with everything in this game. In fact, UO requires LESS time than other MMO's out there.

Those games are level progressive and as such has meaningful content all the way through and a meaningful way to naturally progress without being lost.

UO Lacks all of those things.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Yet here you are whining about not getting what is due you... interesting... more laughs for the fodder.

What on earth are you on about, I am already a veteran, I have most of the things I need.

And posting on this forum takes what...10-15 minutes and I play UO for about maybe an hour or so...thats an hour and 15 minutes spent in total, so yes I have plenty of life besides that.

 

[dum3886]

I'm not saying tamers arn't real pvpers... i was saying that u dun need as good a suit to be competitive. Your suit doesn't help u (a tamer) as much as it would help a mage.

A mage suit requires everything u have in your suit... BUT include HCI and maybe some HLD... sure there isn't much missing but those 2 things will be very hard to squeeze into a suit.

2nd... those two things will have a large impact on who wins.. disarm, bleed, mortal etc... those r specials that can and will often decide who wins in a fight... Bleed poison combo (person with HCI)... v poison only (0 HCI)... that's not even a fair fight.

The way Uo is.. they r forcing you to play certain in a sense "races" i.e: archer tamers... bcz all the others r just too expensive.

 

[Heartseeker]

And that makes it a problem for the game since there is TONS competitive games out there....

Players do not enjoy having to spend countless time to "catch up" with existing players in order to be competitive.

And what happens when they realize, after initially trying the game out, that in order to be competitive they have to spend an enormous time to earn the gold needed to buy the items which they feel they need to be competitive ?

They ask themselves why bother and move on to some other game....

And Ultima Online looses subscriptions...........

Popps...you are making it sound like NO ONE can compete.

That is patently untrue.

ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE...even you...can compete, if they so choose.

If not, then they can blame all of their pathetic circumstances on why they can't keep up with the older players.

Or, if they are like really successful people, they will find a way to rise above the current circumstances, to achieve the desired result.

You and Chaos and everyone else that thinks that EVERYONE should have ready access to simply EVERYTHING in the game, even times that are long gone, but you seem to forget one of the most important edicts of real business:

Do everything you can to keep current customers. They are far more valuable than a new one may be.

Then, to keep the business alive, new customers must be attracted. In a game environment, that means that the game can't be TOO hard...or TOO easy.

You want to have all new players have EVERYTHING available to them that any other player has, and I say no. That is not what would keep me playing UO.

If I logged in and hit a big red Easy button to have Arties and Armor dropped in my bank account, and didn't need to hunt, run vendors, etc. I would quit.

And, as a demographic of the game for 12+ years, I would say I am not alone.

You are confusing "Ease" with "Effort".

They are very different animals. One leads to a person expecting simply everything to be available just the way, and when THEY want it (like a Coffee Shop or Grocery Store...different business model).

This is not what works in a competitive environment. To keep customers interested in competitive environment, they need to "Compete". This excludes everyone having exactly the same thing, for varying amounts of Effort.

Otherwise, both sides would win in a soccer match. But they don't. One side wins...the other loses.

In UO, if you are able to attend the event, you make it to the game. Otherwise, you "Forfeit" your game.

This can happen to people in a championship game they have waited YEARS to play, Popps. YEARS of real expense...driving kids to and from matches...YEARS of this.

If the team is late to their Championship Match, they "Forfeit" their prize, or even chance at it, and then they lose.

Now...I wanted to state all that to hopefully put a cork in your "UO will fail because it's just too HARD!!" diatribe.

However, the imbuing scenario, itself, should be evaluated. I have nothing to gain in terms of stockpiled items I can sell, or previously imbued items I covet.

However, it would seem that the reason for the change, albeit possibly valid, and meant to address something deeper than we are able to know...could be repealed with enough thought and reasoning.

Undoing it simply because Popps says that new players won't have the ability to imbue a Violet Courage or an Arctic Death Dealer...well...I say bullspit...complete bullspit.

Popps...I must say...you greatly underestimate the power of the human spirit for achievement, and goal consciousness. I will admit that it is a tough balancing act indeed...but you are way out there saying that new folks just can't compete. Not ALL new folks can compete. But, people have been competing in UO...in whatever sandbox method makes them the happiest for over 12 years.

Just because your subjective view says that most quit as soon as they try the game, and you know 4 people that left because they can't compete...way too small a slice to think it is valid for everyone, for sure.

Still competing...still here. Simply stated...all of the other MMOs need customers too...we can't hog them all.

Surgeries you couldn't be more wrong, even if you tried.

There is a difference between having it all and trying to be competitive.

This game has lost it's vision of that.

I'll give you an example of what it was like.(This can be verified on a Classic Shard).

You had all players having the same skill points 700: Now there is a difference,700 plus 5 per year for the first 4 years.

Stats are the same thing; Vets are at max, while the noob has 225.

All you had to do to GM Skills was to use them;Now we have Power Scrolls, with some people never having their skills reach 120.

The skill gain system rewarded players consistently with raises: Now skills like Taming take months to years to reach 120.

Items are a must to compete now, that is why we have insurance. The problem is that to get some of these it is ridiculously hard and monotonous to any new or returning player. The Library collections being one of those systems.

This game has to many rules and mathematical stats for new people to wrap their head around.

It is easy for veterans to talk about the ease of making money or acquiring items, but in reality this is not the case.

To compare other games, they handle it differently. If you go to the right areas and train your skills you get said item or increase to max skill level.

UO was great, simple and fun game before, now it is a big time grind.

Lastly PVP: What once was a fair field, now is unplayable without the highest end items. A competitive mage suit can cost 10's to 100's of millions.

The bottom line is that game is not new/return player friendly, and without being a top merchant, one has little chance to get the most valuable items.
The fact that it's an item dependent game, makes it a big problem.

 

[Llewen]

Those games are level progressive and as such has meaningful content all the way through and a meaningful way to naturally progress without being lost.

UO Lacks all of those things.

You have got to be kidding. If you love level based games so much, go play one. There are hundreds of options out there if that's what you are looking for.

But before you go, let me tell you about level based games. You think it is hard for a new player to compete in UO, try and take a level 1 character against a level 20, or a 20 against a 40, or a 40 against a 60, in a game like WoW, and see where that gets you. The truth is you would have absolutely no chance whatsoever.

If you know what you are doing in UO, you can be into the game and playing at the highest level, within a matter of days. In a level based game like WoW you can't even go to a higher level area with a character that is too much lower in levels. If you try your life span can be measured in minutes, if you are lucky and you don't actually come within range of anything aggressive.

As for "meaningful content", UO has more "meaningful content" than just about any other MMO on the market. There isn't an MMO out there where you have more options for fun and "meaningful" game play.

However, one thing is clear to me now after that gem of a post, you are simply here to bash the game, and your posts are nothing more than thinly disguised trolling.

 

[Llewen]

Its not really hard to obtain today, simply swipe a credit card on certain sites and voila, you have a perfect suit.

It's not impossible a thousand other ways either, which is what I've been trying to say, and which basically negates the entire premise of this thread.

 

[Lord Chaos]

It's not impossible a thousand other ways either, which is what I've been trying to say, and which basically negates the entire premise of this thread.

Its impossible to work for it and obtain it through gameplay, you have to do ridiculous amounts of gold saving and trading to obtain them, if you can even find a vendor that sells them.

 

[Llewen]

Its impossible to work for it and obtain it through gameplay, you have to do ridiculous amounts of gold saving and trading to obtain them, if you can even find a vendor that sells them.

Newsflash - "gold saving and trading" are both elements of UO game play. So is social interaction and befriending others who may have skills you lack, or aren't interested in developing, but nonetheless need. There is much more to UO "game play" than keyboard mashing and killing other players or mobs.

I'm not saying tamers arn't real pvpers... i was saying that u dun need as good a suit to be competitive. Your suit doesn't help u (a tamer) as much as it would help a mage.

And I'm telling you you don't know what you are talking about. It takes just as much effort to put together a truly competitive tamer suit as it does for any other template. I don't have some of the mods you seem to think necessary for a mage suit because I needed as many skill points as I could possibly pull together, on top of all the basic mods a mage requires (my character is a tamer mage).

 

[Surgeries]

I am talking about "time".................

Time is an assett, has a worth, time is precious, time is never enough.......

What I am talking about, is that the times when there was only Ultima Online are long gone.

Now, there is tons of other games, and besides tons of other games, there is also all of the time needed to live one's own life meaning, school, work, social relations, errands, chores, family duties, blah blah and blah.......

What I am trying to say, is that on average, people do not have that much time handy to invest into a game in order to be competitive and play it for fun. Especially, when there is a whole lot of catching up needed to be competitive.

I am talking about casual playing vs. powergaming.

It is not about effort or ease, it is all about having or not the time.

When the catching up is too much, and time is too short, the 2 do not mix well.

So, players move elsewhere and the game looses subscriptions.

Shortening the gap to be covered helps keeping also the casual players with less time handy capable of competitively play the game and, so, increases the resources for the game.

Super.

YOU put in the "Time"...the "Asset"..and YOU reap the rewards. If you weren't "Playing the Market" at the time the "Reward" became available...then you lose that opportunity.

In investing, there is a factor as it relates to the "Use of the Asset", and where the "Asset" is allocated.

In the event that a person allocates the "Asset" to some "Investment", and that investment doesn't return as much as another investment, not invested in, then the investor has experienced what happens to anyone not playing UO when an event happens: The investor loses the opportunity to "Gain" from the "Asset", as the "Asset" (in this case, Time) wasn't invested in the opportunity providing the more desirable return, at that time.

DON'T Invest the time, and you don't gain the benefit. Don't invest at the RIGHT time, and you suffer the same result.

Now...you think that because you pay money to play, that ALL "Benefits" from all "Investments" made by anyone, anywhere along the line, that you did not engage in, should reap the same "Benefits" for you as someone that DID "Play the Market", and invest their time, at the right time.

Is that simple enough for you, Popps...IYHO?

The people with more money to "Play the market" will ALWAYS make more, as a rule, than folks that have significantly less to spend.

You want the same "Return on Investment"...or at the very least...the exact same opportunity to "Invest" your time to achieve the same result as someone that was actually "In the market" at the right time.

Having achieved my Securities License (Series 7, for those that know these things) gives me some insight into these parallels.

Your short sighted view makes this a fairly ridiculous argument. You want something for nothing.

Some people do not have the amount of time to spend in UO as others.

Why in the world should people who DIDN'T pay the "Price" in "Assets" gain the exact same benefit as those that do not spend the same time? That is a stance I cannot understand.

Well...except from you, I guess.

You confuse "Playing for Fun": with "Being Competitive".

Some people do sports as a hobby...some do it as their life.

Some people are Power Gamers, and some are just like you and me...sometimes not able to play for days or weeks at a time.

A person MUST, by nature's very law, give in return IN EXACT PROPORTION to what they want to get for that which they seek.

There is no hiding from this law. It's accounting is flawless. The law will stand and wait for you to ask something for nothing (which you most definitely are in this case...you want the same benefit, without having to be accountable for the timing of your investment, nor even the actual time it takes to achieve the objective) and then flatly deny your request.

If you do get something for nothing, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to hold onto it. Many people that win the lottery are bankrupt within 3-5 years. They didn't "Earn" that money...money without brains is dangerous, I have heard it said.

So...once you grasp the fact that you will noit get something for nothing, and if you do, it likely will not last, you will be light years ahead.

There is a great book called "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill.

Read it please. Once you do, you will never make this argument again. Instead of ALL the posting you do here, you would invest that "Asset" to acquire the rewards you seek. It works. Give it a try.

 

[Surgeries]

I guess different people play UO for different reasons.... Not sure about others but personally, I just play it for entertainment.

Rather than going to movies, sometimes I feel playing UO.
Or, an evening TV is boring and so I play UO.

A game is there to fill in time holes when there is nothing else better or more important to do, IMHO.

I do not have to play cards with friends, I do it when I have the time and I feel like doing it.

Being competitive to play an online computer game, IMHO, has nothing to do with "besting" the game. More, it has to do with actually enjoying the time spent playing it.

Who likes dieing every fight one is in ? I think not many....

Nonetheless, if one does not have the right gear and weaponry or scrolled skills that is how fights will end up, OOooooOOOing most times....

And, that is not fun.

Since I would imagine the game is played to enjoy it, this means that if one is looking for PvP enjoyment because the NPC AI is not as fun, then this means necessarily that one needs the gear and weaponry to compete.

But if time is short, the gap to cover in order to be able to enjoy the game might be too much a long task and, eventually, the casual player might give up and move elsewhere, to other games where the catching up to have fun playing the game ain't that much a daunting task.

If I want to be a pro golfer, but can only practice one day a week, if that...and if I do not have a one in a million natural ability to play like a pro with no lessons and/or practice, like Lord Chaos's Bowling Buddy...

Should I be allowed to be a pro golfer, just because others that spent way more time are pro golfers? Should I just stop golfing if I can't pay money to be a pro, or just be granted that ability if I am really busy, and don't have the time to invest in practice, like the other pro golfers?

If so, why, and if not, why not?

 

[Lord Chaos]

Ok Surgeries, lets get this out of the way before you get way too much ahead of yourself.

UO is NOT a sport.
UO is NOT a job.
UO is NOT real life.

UO is a GAME

You don't have people playing monopoly where one of the players start with Broadway, hotels on it and 10.000 dollars extra in cash, just because he played more monopoly than the rest or happened to be around for some monopoly event in the past.

 

[Surgeries]

Ok Surgeries, lets get this out of the way before you get way too much ahead of yourself.

UO is NOT a sport.
UO is NOT a job.
UO is NOT real life.

UO is a GAME

You don't have people playing monopoly where one of the players start with Broadway, hotels on it and 10.000 dollars extra in cash, just because he played more monopoly than the rest or happened to be around for some monopoly event in the past.

OK Lord Chaos...since you are obviously not able to grasp the meaning of the term "Analogy"...I will have to just tell you this:

Your whining in my TeamSpeak channel is exactly the same as the drivel on these boards that you spout. How hard it is...why it can't be done...why it's stupid...why it's impossible.

Then, with us doing the very things right in front of you (like run vendors, or hunt the dungeons) you still would tell us why it wouldn't work...blah blah blah.

Listen...your negative attitude really doesn't make you right. Your inability to draw conclusions based on real facts, and not just LCs view of the world precludes your understanding, and removes hope from the chance that you can grasp the realities.

I am trying to help you understand that what you and Popps are asking for is the same benefits as folks that DID MORE THAN YOU IN THE GAME.

They either spent more money for a longer period of time than you did, or they spent more time playing the game than you did.

What part of that do you not understand, LC? Which part, exactly?

It is a "Reward" because a person has to DO SOMETHING to get it.They have to play better, longer, or just pay more than the person that doesn't have it...the person that didn't spend the same amount of money and/or time. They get "Rewarded". Like getting more vacation accrual when a person has been at a job longer...like that.

Do you seriously just not grasp that?

If you don't think that I understand UO is a game you are mistaken. However, life doesn't discern between giving in proportion to what you receive...it doesn't care if it's a hobby. It doesn't care if it's a game, or a job. The Principle...that particular part you seem unable to grasp...stays the same.

If the answer is that you cannot understand that excessively simple and ubiquitous law of nature, that Principle of life...then we have nothing further to discuss.

I will fully understand then that you are still putting your hands over your ears, telling everyone "uh Huh!! It is so!! Yuh Huh!!!", and we will leave it at that.

 

[Lady CaT]

Greetings MalagAste,

I have to disagree with you. This idea that everything and everyone has to be fair and balanced is absurd! To expect that someone walking in "new" or "returning after many years" should be competitive is laughable. It could be argued for the "returning players", that they made the choice not to be competitive by leaving the game. Even with access to the same equipment, tamed pets, etc.. they probably still wouldn't be able to compete, due of their lack of knowledge and experience against someone who has played for years. And then they would probably find some other reason to explain why they can't compete and end up quitting. Or that they must have been playing against some who exploits. So yes, "returning players" did miss out on alot.

In regards to "new players", alot of the same arguements hold. But to expect to walk into the game and have exactly what someone who has played for years to have is laughable. It just shows a lack of maturity. No, you couldnt possibly expect to have the same amount of gold, training, experience, knowledge, resources, guild strength, etc. as someone who has played many years. If they quit because they can't have all that over night and compete, well they picked the wrong game. They should probably know the game requires alot of exploring, training, and learning. And its not some combat video game where you punch in the cheat codes.

So in short, no the world isn't fair and balanced. And never will be.

Regards,

 

[Lord Chaos]

OK Lord Chaos...since you are obviously not able to grasp the meaning of the term "Analogy"

Your analogies doesn't work, nor do they apply, when you're bringing up things which are not compatible in an analog with a computer game MMO.

Your whining in my TeamSpeak channel is exactly the same as the drivel on these boards that you spout. How hard it is...why it can't be done...why it's stupid...why it's impossible.

Then, with us doing the very things right in front of you (like run vendors, or hunt the dungeons) you still would tell us why it wouldn't work...blah blah blah.

Actually you neither hunted in dungeons, nor ran vendors. I don't have any problems with people running vendors or saying that its a bad idea that doesn't work.

These things are hard considering how much time you have, how good you are at various aspects of the game and many many other factors.

I am trying to help you understand that what you and Popps are asking for is the same benefits as folks that DID MORE THAN YOU IN THE GAME.

They either spent more money for a longer period of time than you did, or they spent more time playing the game than you did.

What part of that do you not understand, LC? Which part, exactly?

I understand what you're saying just fine, its still just a load of bullocks, this is a game, not an investment operation. Everyone should have the same opportunities and basis compared to everyone else. This is again a GAME. It is high time that people understood that and the dev team fully understood this as well...this is why other MMOs holds tens of millions of players, while UO has what? 60K players?

It is a "Reward" because a person has to DO SOMETHING to get it.They have to play better, longer, or just pay more than the person that doesn't have it...the person that didn't spend the same amount of money and/or time. They get "Rewarded". Like getting more vacation accrual when a person has been at a job longer...like that.

Again, a job is invalid both as an analogy and as a comparison. This thread was not about giving everyone everything easy, but to not run limited duration or time specific rewards, which completely excludes people no matter how much they work. You can play 18 hours a day, play the game to the best of your ability, be the best of the best...but you still can't get the 20 extra skill cap, that is just bad design decision.

I do applaud the dev team for making things like Replica items, it breathed new life into champ spawns and gave us limited items that are now always available.

If you don't think that I understand UO is a game you are mistaken. However, life doesn't discern between giving in proportion to what you receive...it doesn't care if it's a hobby. It doesn't care if it's a game, or a job. The Principle...that particular part you seem unable to grasp...stays the same.

The rules of a game, especially a computer game, changes as the developers change it. There are no set "life rules" that applies to it.

If the answer is that you cannot understand that excessively simple and ubiquitous law of nature, that Principle of life...then we have nothing further to discuss.

Its not a law of nature regardless, lol. But either way, again, it doesn't apply to a computer game where the "laws" change according to design.

 

[Lord Chaos]

<snip>

This thread is not about being handed everything on a silver platter, but to not have things that are limited and can never be directly obtained anymore or are time specific. These are bad design choices.

What you're not getting is that from a game companys perspective, a veteran player, a new player or a returning player all gives the same revenue at the time, so to act like a veteran player is so much more golden than anyone else is ridiculous and as such should be happy that they have so much more already like experience, knowledge, guild, community, etc. etc.

 

[gjohnson5]

Greetings MalagAste,

I have to disagree with you. This idea that everything and everyone has to be fair and balanced is absurd! To expect that someone walking in "new" or "returning after many years" should be competitive is laughable. It could be argued for the "returning players", that they made the choice not to be competitive by leaving the game. Even with access to the same equipment, tamed pets, etc.. they probably still wouldn't be able to compete, due of their lack of knowledge and experience against someone who has played for years. And then they would probably find some other reason to explain why they can't compete and end up quitting. Or that they must have been playing against some who exploits. So yes, "returning players" did miss out on alot.

In regards to "new players", alot of the same arguements hold. But to expect to walk into the game and have exactly what someone who has played for years to have is laughable. It just shows a lack of maturity. No, you couldnt possibly expect to have the same amount of gold, training, experience, knowledge, resources, guild strength, etc. as someone who has played many years. If they quit because they can't have all that over night and compete, well they picked the wrong game. They should probably know the game requires alot of exploring, training, and learning. And its not some combat video game where you punch in the cheat codes.

So in short, no the world isn't fair and balanced. And never will be.

Regards,

Your arguments are mixed and muddled
1. a new players won't have a house, weapons, armor, runes to towns, money etc whereas a returning player could have simply kept paying for his account and simply stopped player. So you said Malagaste's argument was absurd. IMHO yours is just as absurd.
2. Read some of the "adaption" threads around. Many times the game was changed in such a way that older players are at times at a disadvantage. Then Many of the older players simply did not want to adapt so the idea that knowledge and experience are the main keys to success is also absurd. The reason many "chose" not to be competitive is because they didn't want to adapt to the changes... Once again another argument that needs rethinking IMHO
3. Those who exploit could be anyone. That is not specific to new or returning players. The nature of the exploits is such that simply using google could reveal many of them and anyone could take advantage of them.
4. Due to the presence of sellers who accept real money for in game items, anyone no matter what experience level could have the same items as anyone else. Experience has nothing to do with that either.
Gold is $1 a million. Anyone can amass gold without any experience at all. Also amassing gold has been exploited many times. Also absurd
5. LOL @ the maturity argument. it takes maturity to whip out a credit card and decide to pay for a game??? You gotta be kidding me

Enough.

Anyway, I think in some cases some older items are overpowered, however due to the increasing item dependency of the game, in most cases it's not true. Personally the hit chance shields isn't overpowered at all now that hit chance can be imbued on items anyway. Personally I think hit chance on shields should come back. It's not like EA/Mythic isn't continuing to create and expand item properties despite objections by many players. The same goes for mana regeneration on robes. Robes have quite a few items properties now whereas before it was mostly luck and physical resist. The Melissa's clocks came out , The these replica cloaks came out, then quests to turn cloaks of corruption into items with more properties , etc.... The dread mare might be a good point he has. The expansion of items properties and then the selling of items makes it such that anyone of any skill can attain such items.

 

[Surgeries]

This thread is not about being handed everything on a silver platter, but to not have things that are limited and can never be directly obtained anymore or are time specific. These are bad design choices.

What you're not getting is that from a game companys perspective, a veteran player, a new player or a returning player all gives the same revenue at the time, so to act like a veteran player is so much more golden than anyone else is ridiculous and as such should be happy that they have so much more already like experience, knowledge, guild, community, etc. etc.

So...if I have paid UO $12 a month for 144 months...and you just started...and you have paid $12...total...and I have paid $1,728.00...

Then you should have everything precisely as I have it, then, by your ideology, LC?

Can you point me to any theory of gaming that might hold up under scrutiny, that would back up your amazingly selfish view on this?

By the way...here is a link to some views by Napoleon Hill...

http://www.squidoo.com/thinkriches#module2374575

Mr. Hill spent 25 years studying what it takes to be successful...and the Principles he describes...like There is No Such Thing as Something for Nothing which I touched upon earlier, apply to everything...games, business, growing roses, having a great marriage...all of it. That part you miss. They ARE universal laws. You can ignore them. But they exist...they drive all achievement, big and small. Just because you may be ignorant of them, and/or the practical application of such Laws, does not mean you are immune to their effects, nor can you escape them by denial.

I will look forward to any links by people that may actually know about gaming development that can support YOUR theory that everyone should have exactly all the same advantages, abilities, access to items and starting point as every other player.

Any link that can show that a communistic approach to gaming is better than having to pay a price for what you desire would be just fine, LC.

Go ahead...I'll be waiting.

Or...as per usual...you can quote a tiny part of my post, take it out of context, provide no back up for your claims and then, tell me how wrong I am.

rolleyes:

You could surprise me, but frankly, I have come to expect not one thing more from you. Sad as it may be.

 

[Lady CaT]

Greetings Lord Chaos,

Companies offer "limited time" incentives all the time. Whether the goal is to get new customers to try a product. Or to reward loyal customers for using more of a product. This is done all the time in business. So again I disagree with your arguements.

Yes the veteran, the new player, and the returning player may all pay the same amount currently. But from a business point of view that doesn't suddenly entitle you to receive all past offers and specials? That's absurd.

You could argue those discontinued special items in game also create additional challenge for existing customers. Something to work for or seek out. If they could all simply be bought immediately there might not be any incentive to continue playing. Perhaps a large percentage of customers for the game enjoy it for its "collectibility aspects". Not all customers are attracted for the same reasons. Some enjoy the fight, some enjoy the community, some enjoy the collecting, etc..

To assume all your customers respond to the same thing would be the "design" mistake.

Regards,

Regards,

 

[gjohnson5]

Any link that can show that a communistic approach to gaming is better than having to pay a price for what you desire would be just fine, LC.

LOL , someone comparing playing UO to political theory. I've read it all.... Atleast replace the word communist with socialist and we can discuss this from a totally economic point of view

 

[Lady CaT]

gjohnson5,

Uhh ok....I think?

 

[Lord Chaos]

So...if I have paid UO $12 a month for 144 months...and you just started...and you have paid $12...total...and I have paid $1,728.00...

Then you should have everything precisely as I have it, then, by your ideology, LC?

Yes, indeed, like in most games out there. That you've paid X amount in the past gives you no additional rights for the most part. Just like someone who paid for EA games for 10 years, don't get additional rights in an EA game above a person who just bought their first EA game.

Can you point me to any theory of gaming that might hold up under scrutiny, that would back up your amazingly selfish view on this?

LOL? Its a selfish view to want everything available to everyone through X amount of effort?

You're the one who wants to hoard things to a select few, so its you who are amazingly selfish.

Mr. Hill spent 25 years studying what it takes to be successful...and the Principles he describes...like There is No Such Thing as Something for Nothing which I touched upon earlier, apply to everything...games, business, growing roses, having a great marriage...all of it. That part you miss. They ARE universal laws. You can ignore them. But they exist...they drive all achievement, big and small. Just because you may be ignorant of them, and/or the practical application of such Laws, does not mean you are immune to their effects, nor can you escape them by denial.

That is not a universal law. And nowhere has the argument been that someone should recieve something from nothing, in fact it would be impossible to give something for nothing, as something could always be traced back to something else and be a byproduct of something else.

I will look forward to any links by people that may actually know about gaming development that can support YOUR theory that everyone should have exactly all the same advantages, abilities, access to items and starting point as every other player.

I don't have to, just look at most games and MMOs in existence today and my view is readily supported.

Any link that can show that a communistic approach to gaming is better than having to pay a price for what you desire would be just fine, LC.

I have no idea where you got the communistic approach from...Strawman much?

 

[UOKaiser]

Lets end this argument right now. This is not a FPS, This is not a strategy game like WOW,command and conquer etc, This is not a puzzle game,This is not a card game,This is not vs game like mortal combat,street fighter.

This is what we call a RPG. There is no such thing as balance in a RPG. More so this is a sandbox RPG which means they made the world you do what you want. If you missed something get it from someone else nobody is stopping anybody. Find away to get around it,change your outlook. If you can't compete get better,find a way to,run away,change your outlook change your characters,change your location etc.. it's up to you good luck.

 

[Guido_LS]

Because yeah, just getting the tens of thousands of residue and gems needed to train imbuing + powerscrolls is easy.

It is easy... ridiculously easy. If you spent 1/10th the time doing a little PvM as you do posting here, you'd have 10's of thousands of residues already... although that is just a *slight* exaggeration that you need that many... and guess what you get as a side bonus to that PvM? Gold... with which you can buy, zomg, gems... guess what? If you do that farming in King's Tomb, or the Abyss, you can actually stockpile some of those ingredients you are complaining about obtaining...

Then getting the ingredients for the actual imbuing and failing 50 times in a row on a single item.

EA/Mythic/UO is not responsible for your failure to plan properly when creating an item... and you STILL don't lose (with the exception of relic frags) those *difficult to obtain...* items... and you use the relic frags when your chances are >100%, not when they drop down to <20%...

Then when you finally create the item, it can't be POF'ed and it can't have self repair, so they're very finite in their existance, especially when used a lot.

You PoF BEFORE you imbue... and thank the gods for a finite lifespan... let's give the crafters a raison d'etre other than bod cycling for PoF and runics...

 

[Konge]

People are still arguing that these time specific items are needed?

Really?

Name one item, that is 100% needed and you can't deal without it's mods no mater what?

Lord chaos, stop mentioning the +20 skills, this has absolutely nothing to do with it, as this thread is generally about time specific items, everyone can get the +20 skill cap, you just have to play long enough.

That's the ways it's been for many years, and you're only whining about it now because it's inconvient for you NOW.

As I stated before, the +20 isn't "needed" as you can just use +20 via your suit and sacrifice 1-2 mods on the entire thing, with imbuing, whining about sacrificing a mod or two really is a moot point. If you say imbuing is too hard or expensive for a new/returring player, well they have time to learn the new system and build up their character now, don't they? They have time to make money and finish their skills and find pieces for their suit/train a crafter to lower the cost of making a suit. That's a pretty decent amount of time right there. (if your response involves golem bashing, macroing, I don't care. I've pointed out many times that I don't view those as legit ways of completing a character thus making that point invalid.)

 

[Viper09]

Ok Surgeries, lets get this out of the way before you get way too much ahead of yourself.

UO is NOT a sport.
UO is NOT a job.
UO is NOT real life.

UO is a GAME

You don't have people playing monopoly where one of the players start with Broadway, hotels on it and 10.000 dollars extra in cash, just because he played more monopoly than the rest or happened to be around for some monopoly event in the past.

Ugh, what? When people play monopoly they all start at the same time, you don't generally join the game after it's already started. If you do then yes, you could likely come in with nothing when other players already have a monopoly. But that's not how an MMO works.

This is UO, you join the game where other players have been already been playing a long time. You come in with nothing and you have others with everything.

Sorry, but you cannot compare a board game like monopoly with an MMO game that has players coming, going, staying, etc.

 

[MinorMage]

Sometimes UO mirrors reality.

Take cars for example. Every year emissions requirements keep getting stricter. So, new cars have tougher and tougher standards to meet. Would it be a good thing to just not have any emissions standards because some guy with a car built in 1966 gets to pollute and its not fair that people buying new cars cant? Not really the best plan because then nothing ever changes and no one can ever recover from a past mistake. (In the case of UO, if nothing ever gets balanced, then either everything keeps getting more powerful since nothing can be made less powerful, or no changes are ever made, right?)

What if instead, every year all the old cars had to be taken in and converted to meet current model year standards? No one would complain about that. Its only a few thousand dollars every year to make your car legal or just not drive it. Seriously, this would be about as bad as the scenario above.

Or, as experience has shown, they could do the best thing: Have new standards for new cars and grandfather in the old ones. Sure the old ones are "unfair", but ultimately they will wear out except for a chosen few that show up at car shows or are driven around on the weekend. Eventually, the impact of the old grandfathered cars will be so low as to be negligible.

Perhaps, as some have suggested, the best thing to do is to implement the new rules, grandfather in the old pieces and try to get people to turn them in with a "cash for clunkers" type turn in.

Just a thought.

This is not a good idea if you want to expand your player base.

 

[Lord Chaos]

It is easy... ridiculously easy. If you spent 1/10th the time doing a little PvM as you do posting here, you'd have 10's of thousands of residues already... although that is just a *slight* exaggeration that you need that many... and guess what you get as a side bonus to that PvM? Gold... with which you can buy, zomg, gems... guess what? If you do that farming in King's Tomb, or the Abyss, you can actually stockpile some of those ingredients you are complaining about obtaining...

PvM'ing what exactly? Even with 5 people PvM'ing daily there's still no more than over 1K of it out of unraveling the magical items. Or are you talking about some other weird trick?

And yeah, there's so many gems around...just laying around on the vendors by the thousands, by the millions! But if you have such a place, then do share.

You PoF BEFORE you imbue... and thank the gods for a finite lifespan... let's give the crafters a raison d'etre other than bod cycling for PoF and runics...

Yes you do, but its still a downside to imbuing, so certainly doesn't make it all powerful.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Ugh, what? When people play monopoly they all start at the same time, you don't generally join the game after it's already started.

They don't start at the same time, they start an individual play at the same time, just like you start an individual action in UO at the same time.

This is UO, you join the game where other players have been already been playing a long time. You come in with nothing and you have others with everything.

Sorry, but you cannot compare a board game like monopoly with an MMO game that has players coming, going, staying, etc.

Well, Surgeries was a big fan of crappy analogies, so might as well give one back.